Dread Vs Paris Prime [Crit Chance Suggestion]

[ashrah]

paris is better if u solo void both are nice wepons^^

[--DSP--]

paris is better if u solo void both are nice wepons^^

Unfortunately, it is not.

 

Just so we are clear, Hammer shot increases Status Chance AND CRIT DAMAGE and seeing how I am a console Tenno, I don't have Bladed Rounds yet. Before there was Bladed Rounds, Hammer Shot was not a bad mod to put on if you didn't want Heavy Caliber's split.

Not the point. The point is, an elemental mod does HIGHER damage than the HammerShot even in crit.

[----Fenrir----]

paris is better if u solo void both are nice wepons^^

 

No, try it in the simulacrum. The Dread always wins. Against really high level enemies, those that you can not one-shot anymore, the slash procs (100% armor ignore!) of the Dread make a huge difference.

[--DSP--]

No, try it in the simulacrum. The Dread always wins. Against really high level enemies, those that you can not one-shot anymore, the slash procs (100% armor ignore!) of the Dread make a huge difference.

This guys knows ^

[(PSN)Smooth81Criminal]

No, try it in the simulacrum. The Dread always wins. Against really high level enemies, those that you can not one-shot anymore, the slash procs (100% armor ignore!) of the Dread make a huge difference.

Not necessarily true. I once jumped into a T4 Surv with another guy who was using the dread while I carried the Paris. He must have laid 5 or 6 arrows into a heavy gunner which barely even scratched the thing while I shot it once with my Paris and it died. After which I told him dread is an awesome bow but not the beat for high level Corrupted. Better to use the Paris. His response to me was "his dread is" so I responded telling him his failure in killing a heavy gunner. So clearly, its not. The slash on the dreads incredible but that's assuming you can clear out all enemy armor. Otherwise in higher levels it becomes all but useless. Paris is the best for those with its base puncture and that is where it shines the most.

[Thor_UK]

Paris Prime is like the puncture version of Dread.

Not only when Slash is considered a better damage type, Paris Prime also get a lower critical chance.

Why not just make Paris Prime's crit chance the exact same as Dread as in 50% so that it can finally become a solid alternate version of Dread?

 

Your logic has an inherent flaw. Not all weapons have to be equal. It's entirely possible, acceptable, and is very often is the case, that one weapon is simply superior to another wholesale. In this case you're comparing a fairly old Prime Weapon to an (admittedly, also fairly old) Stalker Drop. Honestly, getting the Stalker drops is probably harder, since you can't farm for them, though I admit, Dread does appear to be 95% of his loot table right now.

 

I believe Paris Prime has a somewhat faster reload animation (drawing an arrow from the quiver), and it can be superior to the Dread in certain scenarios (as other Tenno have mentioned), it's, as almost always with similar "tier" weapons, situational.

 

Personally, of the two, I picked Dread, since it doesn't look like a smashed up guitar and the procs bypass shields (proc chance build with slash and poison is pretty great vs shielded enemies).

[--DSP--]

Your logic has an inherent flaw. Not all weapons have to be equal. It's entirely possible, acceptable, and is very often is the case, that one weapon is simply superior to another wholesale. In this case you're comparing a fairly old Prime Weapon to an (admittedly, also fairly old) Stalker Drop. Honestly, getting the Stalker drops is probably harder, since you can't farm for them, though I admit, Dread does appear to be 95% of his loot table right now.

 

I believe Paris Prime has a somewhat faster reload animation (drawing an arrow from the quiver), and it can be superior to the Dread in certain scenarios (as other Tenno have mentioned), it's, as almost always with similar "tier" weapons, situational.

 

Personally, of the two, I picked Dread, since it doesn't look like a smashed up guitar and the procs bypass shields (proc chance build with slash and poison is pretty great vs shielded enemies).

I never said they need to be equal, but there is really no point on not giving Paris Prime 50% crit chance.

Paris Prime DO NOT have a faster reload animation. Not anymore at least. As I was saying this is a "Suggestion". Adding 5% crit won't hurt anything at all.

 

The stats of Paris Prime and Dread are the EXACT same except for damage type and critical chance. Not that I think they MUST make it 50% critical chance, but that 50% critical chance can make Dread less of an obvious choice over Paris Prime.

 

 

 

Edit: I don't see why my "logic" is flaw when I'm not trying to logic this through but to give a suggestion/feedback. 

Edited February 10, 2016 by qwaszx12

[--DSP--]

Not necessarily true. I once jumped into a T4 Surv with another guy who was using the dread while I carried the Paris. He must have laid 5 or 6 arrows into a heavy gunner which barely even scratched the thing while I shot it once with my Paris and it died. After which I told him dread is an awesome bow but not the beat for high level Corrupted. Better to use the Paris. His response to me was "his dread is" so I responded telling him his failure in killing a heavy gunner. So clearly, its not. The slash on the dreads incredible but that's assuming you can clear out all enemy armor. Otherwise in higher levels it becomes all but useless. Paris is the best for those with its base puncture and that is where it shines the most.

idk, because the other guy got a worse build? What you said makes no sense wtsoever.

[taiiat]

both Bows are effectively identical.

 

the extra Crit Chance doesn't matter very much.

w/ Argon Scope they may drift apart a little bit, however...

 

 

if Slash Status is your reasoning for the disparity though... maybe.

not really sure what you could do about that, and that is a random occurrence anyways, not on every shot, as well as a Duration Effect, rather than Spike Damage. which the Puncture side will deal more Spike Damage. if you have the time to wait for Slash Status, then i concur.

 

Since the Dread is Slash DMG you just have to add the adequate elemental combo to be able to destroy both the Armor and the Health (Elemental Combo to destroy the armor and slash to destroy the health).

 

Since the Paris Prime is Puncture DMG you just have to add elements that will destroy the health (Viral = Ice+Poison /or Fire 90% + Event Fire 60%), the Puncture will deal with the Armor.

against an Armored Enemy, maximum Bonuses to Armor is mandatory.

 

I use heavy cal on every single one of my bows and I have no problems.

Heavy Caliber is an inferior choice because without Heavy Caliber, you can get a double Weakpoint Crit on the Enemy you want to hit whether he's 1m in front of you or 200m in front of you.

 

it doesn't matter where the Enemy is, without reducing Accuracy, you can always put the most Damage into the Enemy.

if you aren't aiming for Weakpoints with your Bow, don't use a Precision Weapon. if it has good Crit Stats, it's Weakpoint or find a Weapon that suits your Playstyle better as Precision is not your forte.

[--DSP--]

if Slash Status is your reasoning for the disparity though... maybe.

not really sure what you could do about that, and that is a random occurrence anyways, not on every shot, as well as a Duration Effect, rather than Spike Damage. which the Puncture side will deal more Spike Damage. if you have the time to wait for Slash Status, then i concur.

Yeah, slash status is not my reasoning.  I just think it is better off for Paris Prime to get a 50% crit chance it deserves. Since, as for now we have 3 top tier bow with all three physical damage. Impact - Rakta Cernos, Slash - Dread, and Puncture - Paris Prime.

imo, it just feel better if Paris Prime has the same crit chance as Dread so that we finally get 3 balanced choice of the bow we want to use for the personal damage preference. 

 

Sorry if my english isn't that great. 

But I just think that giving Paris Prime 50% chance will be more balanced.

[taiiat]

if you ask me, IF Crit Chance is a balance disparity for them, the best solution is for Dread to be brought to 45%.

[(PSN)Smooth81Criminal]

idk, because the other guy got a worse build? What you said makes no sense wtsoever.

How so? It's a puncture based weapon which is effective against armor. This is something everyone knows. The slash proc bleed out works nice but ineffective against AR or since the health the drops is very minimal,causing you to hit that same enemy multiple times. (Not including the amount of times you might have to hit that enemy to even get a bleed proc). My scenario makes perfect sense. It's calculated, logical. I have both bows built very well because they are all I use, so I am very aware of their comparisons.

[--DSP--]

How so? It's a puncture based weapon which is effective against armor. This is something everyone knows. The slash proc bleed out works nice but ineffective against AR or since the health the drops is very minimal,causing you to hit that same enemy multiple times. (Not including the amount of times you might have to hit that enemy to even get a bleed proc). My scenario makes perfect sense. It's calculated, logical. I have both bows built very well because they are all I use, so I am very aware of their comparisons.

Have you heard of elemental combos? If modded right, Dread will supresses Paris Prime even without CP. And against armor target. For example, if you test on simulacrum. I got a lvl 80 Corrupted Heavy Gunner. I killed it with Dread in 2 hits while Paris Prime in more than 3.

 

You have modded two very very well, did you forma them? Did you max all the mods? 

I forma both of them 4-5 times and maxed all the mods. Tested them in simulacrum tons of times before I posted this post.

Edited February 11, 2016 by qwaszx12

[(PSN)Smooth81Criminal]

Have you heard of elemental combos? If modded right, Dread will supresses Paris Prime even without CP. And against armor target. For example, if you test on simulacrum. I got a lvl 80 Corrupted Heavy Gunner. I killed it with Dread in 2 hits while Paris Prime in more than 3.

You have modded two very very well, did you forma them? Did you max all the mods?

I forma both of them 4-5 times and maxed all the mods. Tested them in simulacrum tons of times before I posted this post.

Actually yes I have 5 on the dread and I think 6 on the paris. As well as all mods maxed. The status chance on the dread is equal to the paris with a 20% base. But Paris is still superior to the dread against armor even with a corrosive build. Enemy armor is not completely depleted when it procs, especially at higher levels which means armor remains. The added puncture damage of the Paris takes care of whatever armor is left. So yes, my post again, makes sense.

Not to mention this topic was about critical chance and not status. On a full critical build, again I say Paris is superior against armor. No matter how you look at it, puncture beats slash against armored enemies. Thats it.

Edited February 11, 2016 by (PS4)Knuckles2184

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Unfortunately, it is not.

 

Not the point. The point is, an elemental mod does HIGHER damage than the HammerShot even in crit.

Em, no, that's actually wrong. I've tested it myself, hammershot is better than third elemental mod. Idk about other combinations, but with 2 elemental mods hammershot definitely better then third elemental.

Something about Paris prime feels off atm. Completely identical build vs same armored target getting yellow critical hit... Dread is much better. It's like dread charged to max gets better bonuses than paris charged to max.

[--DSP--]

Em, no, that's actually wrong. I've tested it myself, hammershot is better than third elemental mod. Idk about other combinations, but with 2 elemental mods hammershot definitely better then third elemental.

Something about Paris prime feels off atm. Completely identical build vs same armored target getting yellow critical hit... Dread is much better. It's like dread charged to max gets better bonuses than paris charged to max.

You are right about the Paris Prime part feeling off. Dread does do better even against armored target.

 

EDIT: After several testing, you are correct. Hammershot does make it deal higher damage. 

here's the problem though. I tested that the damage will only be higher if the specific elemental combo of yours was meant to fight that specific enemy. Otherwise you will get a lower damage.

Actually yes I have 5 on the dread and I think 6 on the paris. As well as all mods maxed. The status chance on the dread is equal to the paris with a 20% base. But Paris is still superior to the dread against armor even with a corrosive build. Enemy armor is not completely depleted when it procs, especially at higher levels which means armor remains. The added puncture damage of the Paris takes care of whatever armor is left. So yes, my post again, makes sense.

Not to mention this topic was about critical chance and not status. On a full critical build, again I say Paris is superior against armor. No matter how you look at it, puncture beats slash against armored enemies. Thats it.

I never said ANYTHING about STATUS CHANCE. Show me your "6 forma'd Paris Prime" build and "5 forma'd Dread Build".

As far as I'm concerned, none of them need more than 4-5 forma.

 

Also, that is not how armor works. You will NOT deplete armor, EXPECIALLY not with a bow and one corrosive proc. I have a feeling you don't know what you're talking about Mr. 2184

Edited February 11, 2016 by qwaszx12

[ograzzt]

You may think 5% isn't much, but it is. With point strike you'll get 125% crit chance versus 112,5%. Please think about what it means. 100% part doesn't really matter, so it's basically 25% red crit chance versus 12,5%. Dread will red crit twice as often compared to Paris Prime.

Edited February 11, 2016 by ograzzt

[--DSP--]

You may think 5% isn't much, but it is. With point strike you'll get 125% crit chance versus 112,5%. Please think about what it means. 100% part doesn't realy matter, so it's basically 25% red crit chance versus 12,5%. Dread will red crit twice as often compared to Paris Prime.

Exactly.

[(PSN)Smooth81Criminal]

You are right about the Paris Prime part feeling off. Dread does do better even against armored target.

EDIT: After several testing, you are correct. Hammershot does make it deal higher damage.

here's the problem though. I tested that the damage will only be higher if the specific elemental combo of yours was meant to fight that specific enemy. Otherwise you will get a lower damage.

I never said ANYTHING about STATUS CHANCE. Show me your "6 forma'd Paris Prime" build and "5 forma'd Dread Build".

As far as I'm concerned, none of them need more than 4-5 forma.

Also, that is not how armor works. You will NOT deplete armor, EXPECIALLY not with a bow and one corrosive proc. I have a feeling you don't know what you're talking about Mr. 2184

Actually I do know what I am talking about. Corrosive is a STATUS build, which status chance is needed in order to proc. Are you sure you know what you're talking about? If we are purely talking about red crits obv dread surpasses paris, always has. But does it mean it's more effective against armored enemies? No. Oh and it's spelled ESPECIALLY*. Perhaps you may want to learn how to spell, before questioning another person's intelligence. I'm just sayin.

Edit: I just tested both bows in simulacrum with both status and full critical builds. Dread on status took down corrupted eximus Bombard in 24 hits vs the paris with 16. On full critical builds the dread killed the same enemy (level 85) in 6 hits vs the paris with 5. Adding to the fact that that I have fanged fusillade on my dread and I don't own a piercing calibur. I believe if I did then I would have different numbers on the paris. However, clearly status does not take out more damage than a critical build with either of these bows.

I'll admit the paris doesn't have the feel the dread does, but I believe that's more to the fact that it's bulky. (I really hate that about the paris) but using an alternative skin gives it a better feel in my opinion.

Edited February 11, 2016 by (PS4)Knuckles2184

[--DSP--]

Actually I do know what I am talking about. Corrosive is a STATUS build, which status chance is needed in order to proc. Are you sure you know what you're talking about? If we are purely talking about red crits obv dread surpasses paris, always has. But does it mean it's more effective against armored enemies? No. Oh and it's spelled ESPECIALLY*. Perhaps you may want to learn how to spell, before questioning another person's intelligence. I'm just sayin.

Edit: I just tested both bows in simulacrum with both status and full critical builds. Dread on status took down corrupted eximus Bombard in 24 hits vs the paris with 16. On full critical builds the dread killed the same enemy (level 85) in 6 hits vs the paris with 5. Adding to the fact that that I have fanged fusillade on my dread and I don't own a piercing calibur. I believe if I did then I would have different numbers on the paris. However, clearly status does not take out more damage than a critical build with either of these bows.

I'll admit the paris doesn't have the feel the dread does, but I believe that's more to the fact that it's bulky. (I really hate that about the paris) but using an alternative skin gives it a better feel in my opinion.

Mastery 85 Heavy Gunner Eximus? Now I definitely know you're lying. I know you are Mastery 7, and Mastery 7 cannot get 85 Level enemies in simulacrum (Sorry about this sentence, I misunderstood the forum ranking)

 

ALSO, CORROSIVE BUILD is NOT a STATUS build. A corrosive build is an ELEMENTAL BUILD. Status and Elemental are TWO DIFFERENT THING. You have Fanged Fusillade, so what? I do too. You don't have Piercing Calibur, too bad because I do. I tested their damage in the simulacrum. Dread deals HIGHER DAMAGE to a corrupted heavy gunner no matter what situation you are on. (And there are NO weapons that doesn't require elemental mods)

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I should not be that bad tempered. But elemental build and status builds are completely different. I hope I'm not misunderstanding you again. But what you said really didn't make sense.

Edited February 11, 2016 by qwaszx12

[--DSP--]

Also, as for my testing part.

I used 1 whole hour for this testing.

Here is my record.

 

First, I tried Damage + Crit + 3 Elemental (Corrosive + Fire)

Conclusion: Dread

 

Then, I tried Damage + Crit + 2 Elemental (Corrosive) + Physical +120% Mods

Conclusion: Dread (Wins by 1 damage on headshot)

 

I forgot the rest of my testing. Most of them are just elemental switching. And maybe try Hammershot and mess with other mods. Dread wins most if not all of them.

 

This is tested in Simulacrum with Corrupted Heavy Gunner with no armor stripped at all.

I recommend you to get your facts right before you insult ppl for their spelling.

[(PSN)Smooth81Criminal]

Mastery 85 Heavy Gunner Eximus? Now I definitely know you're lying. I know you are Mastery 7, and Mastery 7 cannot get 85 Level enemies in simulacrum

ALSO, CORROSIVE BUILD is NOT a STATUS build. A corrosive build is an ELEMENTAL BUILD. Status and Elemental are TWO DIFFERENT THING. You have Fanged Fusillade, so what? I do too. You don't have Piercing Calibur, too bad because I do. I tested their damage in the simulacrum. Dread deals HIGHER DAMAGE to a corrupted heavy gunner no matter what situation you are on.

What you said were ABSOLUTE GARBAGE. Sorry, but I can't really take this anymore. For the first reply of yours claiming the "T4 Survival, bla bla bla Paris Prime > Dread in high level" Already made me cringe. Adding on the fact that you can't even tell the differences between Elemental Damage and Status Proc. I don't even know why I'm keeping up with you. Perhaps I just need this to fill my mental instability.

Actually, no I'm not a mastery 7. Clearly you are getting wrong info somewhere or just plain making it up which actually brings everything you have claimed this far into question. Also, I did not say a heavy gunner in my last post.. I said BOMBARD. Learn to read.

[--DSP--]

Actually, no I'm not a mastery 7. Clearly you are getting wrong info somewhere or just plain making it up which actually brings everything you have claimed this far into question. Also, I did not say a heavy gunner in my last post.. I said BOMBARD. Learn to read.

Do you know what build is for Bombard then? It isn't a corrosive build, it is a Radiation Build. Oh, and sorry about the Mastery thing, I thought the "Disciple" thing means our ranking. (My Bad)

 

But as I said. I tested both of them in various build. Dread DOES better even against armored target. HOWEVER it may be worse since you're using a corrosive build against a Bombard. If you're fighting against bombard, try a radiation build first.

Edited February 11, 2016 by qwaszx12

[(PSN)Smooth81Criminal]

Do you know what build is for Bombard then? It isn't a corrosive build, it is a Radiation Build. Oh, and sorry about the Mastery thing, I thought the "Disciple" thing means our ranking. (My Bad)

And in order to proc elements, you need a status. Because an element IS a status. As far as the element build for bombards, no I didn't know it had to be radiation which I will test later. I haven't built my bows for status/elemental because I've built purely for critical since those are the higher percentages. I will test it later. Either way I sure my opinion will not change because I have always had better luck with the paris on anything with armor over the dread. Which believe me, i love the dread and I wish that I dealt better damage to it. But fact is there are different damage types that work better on different enemies which is why we have other damage types.

You also don't need to spend an excessive amount of time in simulacrum to gain a perspective on hits. Using 5 enemies each will give you the same average as 10. (Not saying it will take an hour to kill 10 enemies, it's just a reference).

[--DSP--]

And in order to proc elements, you need a status. Because an element IS a status. As far as the element build for bombards, no I didn't know it had to be radiation which I will test later. I haven't built my bows for status/elemental because I've built purely for critical since those are the higher percentages. I will test it later. Either way I sure my opinion will not change because I have always had better luck with the paris on anything with armor over the dread. Which believe me, i love the dread and I wish that I dealt better damage to it. But fact is there are different damage types that work better on different enemies which is why we have other damage types.

You also don't need to spend an excessive amount of time in simulacrum to gain a perspective on hits. Using 5 enemies each will give you the same average as 10. (Not saying it will take an hour to kill 10 enemies, it's just a reference).

Elemental is a damage type. Not a status. A status is an elemental or physical proc that will trigger an effect. Where's an elemental is a damage that will do higher or lower damage to certain enemies.

 

Honestly if you claim to have 6 forma on your bow and not put an elemental mod at all? 

Edited February 11, 2016 by qwaszx12