(PSN)Tpaetznick Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Covert lethality was a band aid at best a damn good one but still a band aid Daggers need a buff either a flat 10-20% crit/status chance buff , better attack speed or marginally improvements to stances Currently dagers have little to no actual use besides covert lethalty in meele combat that other weapons can't do better Dual daggers are just mastery fodder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerheathen Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I dunno. I really love the karyst. the dark dagger is surprisingly good. It's how you use them. Can you go through the star chart with it? yes? it's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Tpaetznick Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 I would be nice to see them made a little more viable I run a dark dager with covert lethality and gleaming blight for my t4 and t3 runs but outside of teleport+ instakill it really loses its viability around mid t3 the dagger class is largely inferior to other weapons overall they need something to make them more worthwhile and not just good enough. Covert lethality is a good mod but it's the only reason to run daggers because the class itself is so sad stat wise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YasaiTsume Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Pointed wind is a good stance. (It got buff didn't it)What Daggers need is a solid reason on why to use them. While others like swords, nikanas, are generally used because they boast overall excellent combat stats,Staffs, polearms for a superior rangeHeavy Blades for strong heavy damage and bersakable crazy blender,Daggers are left in the dirt with crap attackspeed, mediocre damage, average or dumb crit, and generally bad stats all compiled on a single weapon.I propose giving Daggers a Charge attack which is basically a projectile throw, when it hits the target, they Bleed out finisher damage equal to 70% of the weapon's damage for 5 - 10 seconds. (Means it is essentially a free Ash Shuriken to throw at enemies, doesn't home tho) That, and make Covert Lethality a default feature in the Dagger (yes, I'm suggesing giving Daggers a straight Damage boost) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerheathen Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Pointed wind is a good stance. (It got buff didn't it) What Daggers need is a solid reason on why to use them. While others like swords, nikanas, are generally used because they boast overall excellent combat stats, Staffs, polearms for a superior range Heavy Blades for strong heavy damage and bersakable crazy blender, Daggers are left in the dirt with crap attackspeed, mediocre damage, average or dumb crit, and generally bad stats all compiled on a single weapon. I propose giving Daggers a Charge attack which is basically a projectile throw, when it hits the target, they Bleed out finisher damage equal to 70% of the weapon's damage for 5 - 10 seconds. (Means it is essentially a free Ash Shuriken to throw at enemies, doesn't home tho) That, and make Covert Lethality a default feature in the Dagger (yes, I'm suggesing giving Daggers a straight Damage boost) I'm ok with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrycan Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 how about channel damage + channel efficiency ? every melee right now is 1.5 channel, 5 energy per strike. Why not make dagger and dual dagger a channel focus melee type ? x2 or event x3 channel damage ? With the multiply now possible to go up to x5.5, triple those number at a cost of 5 energy per strike is more than reasonable right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YasaiTsume Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 how about channel damage + channel efficiency ? every melee right now is 1.5 channel, 5 energy per strike. Why not make dagger and dual dagger a channel focus melee type ? x2 or event x3 channel damage ? With the multiply now possible to go up to x5.5, triple those number at a cost of 5 energy per strike is more than reasonable right ? Was suggested before I think. But personally it would be better for other weapons to take advantage of Channelling because Daggers already have pathetic or mediocre damage, channeling it would only make it on Par with other weapons when those are channeled as well, so people will still ignore Daggers in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbanShade Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Daggers, generally, needs more crit chance. Even with blood rush and true steel, practically not any dagger has red crit potential, its even hard for daggers to get yellow crits. And also, almost all daggers are alert specific weapon, not counting Karyst (best dagger, except Dark with syndicate mod), and except Dark dagger and Karyst, and Sheev (that is worse case, its not even alert specific, it is event reward, and when and in what form this will return - unknown) there are no reasons to use other daggers. Yeah, there are couple of tricks, like using status-prolongue mod over daggers with special jump attack (like flame from heat dagger or sheev), but its can be usefull only in very strongly composed builds, that arent good for general gameplay, so daggers, even with Cover Lethality, are lackluster category. Well, i can imagine decent dagger, like Sheev, but with something like atk speed of 0.9, dmg at 40 (2 impact and 38 slash), 30% status, 20% crit and crit multi of 2.0, so this will be viable for slash procs, for berzerk, for atk speed, for status Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbabenali Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 If it's crits you want put Maiming Strike in. As for the attack speed: How fast can you guys click the button? Even the dark dagger with only fury is faster than any other non-dagger weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Tpaetznick Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 Daggers are really kind of sad statwise they just need a buff or special quality that's all I'm looking to promote in this thread I think its pretty reasonable from an RPG standpoint daggers are high crit high attack speed weapons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampirePirate Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) The way I use my Sheev will make you eat those words with butter spread. Edited February 9, 2016 by VampirePirate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaidinah Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Yeah, a boost to crit chance is all I feel a dagger needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLexiConArtist Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 The way I use my Sheev will make you eat those words with butter spread. Shh, if they buff daggers our Sheevs will be even more fun to slice things up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 If it's crits you want put Maiming Strike in. As for the attack speed: How fast can you guys click the button? Even the dark dagger with only fury is faster than any other non-dagger weapon. Yeah this: even before Parkour 2.0 fastest copter Weapon was still Cermaic Dagger (Was faster than Tipedo) Do people still not know Melee Attack speed is class specific? Hammer 1.0 Attack Speed is not Sparring 1.0 Attack speed I don't care for Pointed Wind because it removes the guaranteed Bleed Procs that come Stanceless or with Homing Fang. Single Daggers are able to quickly stack Bleed Procs regardless of Base Damage Type and whn those get boosted by combo multiplier and Stealth multiplier it is very effective. Now if you are Pointed Wind combos....then yeah Single Daggers are pretty lackluster. Dual Daggers : I feel need newer weapons (Status or Crit or both) also I would like to see more Bleed Procs on Dual Daggers. Looking forward to Shadow Debt mods on PS4... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pizzarugi Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I dunno. I really love the karyst. the dark dagger is surprisingly good. It's how you use them. Can you go through the star chart with it? yes? it's fine. Can you use it in endgame content or lengthy endless missions? No? It's not fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerheathen Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Can you use it in endgame content or lengthy endless missions? No? It's not fine. Not EVERY weapon needs to be able to do that. Should we have a dagger that can? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Can you use it in endgame content or lengthy endless missions? No? It's not fine. Yes, you can stack Bleed Procs with any single Dagger which works for end-game or Lengthy endless missions. Naramon Passives allow any Warframe to boost Beeld Procs with Stealth Multiplier bonus and I assume Body Count aids in keeping Combo multiplier effect further boosting Bleed Procs. Dual Daggers are another story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Lord_Gremlin Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 The way I use my Sheev will make you eat those words with butter spread. Because sheev is one of the best melee weapons overall. All other daggers are trashy. Maybe time to add more daggers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampirePirate Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) Because sheev is one of the best melee weapons overall. All other daggers are trashy. Maybe time to add more daggers? I was just joking but... yeah. i don't remember daggers being all that great except for sheev and karst or however you spell it. Edited February 10, 2016 by VampirePirate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YasaiTsume Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) I don't care for Pointed Wind because it removes the guaranteed Bleed Procs that come Stanceless or with Homing Fang. The problem with that is when using Homing Fang or Stanceless, and still want to keep decent damage, yur attack speed suffers alittle. I mean sure yu have the benefit of the Bleed Proc, but in the end I would generally just go back to Pointed Wind for the 400% damage strike as well as a better animation. Yes, Pointed Wind increases the animation abit, so a 0.600 Dagger speed can still function normally when used to slash at enemies. (I personally feel without Attackspeed mods, the lunge move is too slow for me, and when I do use a Fury mod, it hurts my overall Damage as I could fit something else there.) Edited February 11, 2016 by YasaiTsume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfssenger Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I dunno. I really love the karyst. the dark dagger is surprisingly good. It's how you use them. Can you go through the star chart with it? yes? it's fine. I could go through the star chart with a mk-1 braton and a lato... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfssenger Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I dunno. I really love the karyst. the dark dagger is surprisingly good. It's how you use them. Can you go through the star chart with it? yes? it's fine. I could go through the star chart with a mk-1 braton and a lato... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfssenger Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I'm ok with thisAgreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YasaiTsume Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Just went and played around with both my Karyst (0.6 Aspeed/ Pointed Wind) and Sheev (0.5 Aspeed/Formaed Homing Fang)Both Stances have had their Animation speed improved and are much faster now, and in the case for the Karyst, able to 1-2 shot Ceres tier Grineer (600+ Toxin, 300 + Radiation)Daggers still lack flavour, charge attacks are utterly garbage, both have 2,300 Wall attack for some reason, and slide attacks are pretty ok, but nothing special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLexiConArtist Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Daggers still lack flavour, charge attacks are utterly garbage, both have 2,300 Wall attack for some reason, and slide attacks are pretty ok, but nothing special. Charge attacks aren't bad if you build for them and chain the charging part right, using Homing Fang. Guaranteed Slash procs and 250% damage strikes if the wiki is to be believed, combined with modding for the best base damage possible (Spoiled Strike included since you're not quite as concerned by lacking attack speed for cycling the combo faster) can add up to some pretty good bleeding. I don't use a focused charge-attack build myself but I use them at times, they do have merit. Particularly because you stay in place a lot more doing charge attacks than you do in the process of the regular HF combos. Sheev is my single most used weapon, and not just because of Covert Lethality (it helps though. More damage and free kills never hurts). I can fill it out without even using an extra Forma to swap to Homing Fang's polarity, until I get Primed Fury (stacking MORE bleeds! YES). Sure would be nice if using Buzz Kill to strongly buff Slash damage actually had an effect on Slash proc damage values, though. Same for Fanged Fusillade and my Dread bleeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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