Knockdown Spam Is Not Fun

[Otakuwolf]

Just like that, getting knocked down over and over and over without chance to do anything is not fun, is literally like the game takes your keyboard/gamepad and trows it out of the window for how unplayable it can be at times.

 

You may argue "oh well, go Godmode" or "It's your fault for getting into such situations", guess what: Godmode is not permanent and can't always be activated (and for God Sake, if you can only play the game in Godmode that's a clear sign there is something wrong with you or the game itself), and there are times where it's unavoidable to risk getting into such situations.

 

Really, stop it with the knockdown spamming, either make us immune to consecutive knockdowns for like 3 seconds after the first one or nerf the frequency of sayd attacks.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Otakuwolf

[Rydian]

Having been in multiple situations where my controls were unresponsive for periods of time up to 10-15 seconds due to these enemies, I agree.

 

That's not fun.

[Rambit23Z]

Handspring, problem solved.

[Naftal]

Use melee attacks, rolling, ability casts etc. to get knockdown immunity for short periods of time.

[Kletse]

What rambit said

[Otaiken]

Handspring really doesn't change much since one of the MoAs seems to have a special knockdown attack that last for waaay longer than normal knockdown would and as far as I know doesn't get affected by mods. Or maybe it does but just has ridiculous duration by default. Also, knockdown is one thing but being permanently frozen on top of that is just starting to get rather silly.

 

And the lockdowns on top of that are crazy.  It seems like this mission is designed from ground up to be as insufferable as possible. 

 

One example, I ran through the mission, opened a door and a camera behind the door immediately spotted me and closed the door in my face. It was pretty funny I must admit... the first time. After that not so much. Thouhg it was the first time I made use of my Liset fire support ability as I was getting utterly sick of lifting lockdowns by the end of it.

Edited February 13, 2016 by LocoWithGun

[clemza]

 make us immune to consecutive knockdowns

 

I am sure there is a pvp mod for that, it may works in pve aswell

[TheFalseEclipse]

or add the ability to jump when you are in middle of the get up animation

[SnakeWildlife]

Snakeys complex and highly mathematical tutorial on how to not get knocked by a shockwave using Einsteins theory of gravity and combined research of over 200 scientists working 'round the clock to solve:

 

1. Jump

[Rydian]

Snakeys complex and highly mathematical tutorial on how to not get knocked by a shockwave using Einsteins theory of gravity and combined research of over 200 scientists working 'round the clock to solve:

 

1. Jump

How do I stay in the air forever?

[Naftal]

How do I stay in the air forever?

You don't need to, the waves aren't happening forever.

[Rydian]

You don't need to, the waves aren't happening forever.

There's also times where I can't avoid them, such as being in tight spaces or little overhangs.  Sometimes the knockdown (especially when combined with a cold proc from a nearby enemy) can last upwards of 10 seconds, which is far too much time to have a player's controls removed.

[Specific.Zod]

Or if youre stupid.

1. Jump several times.

Give this man a cookie!

[Rydian]

The point is not specifically avoidance, it's what happens when you don't manage to avoid it. Warframe is a fast-paced game with lots of things going on, when lots of enemies spawn in tight quarters it can sometimes be very difficult (or with the right spawn conditions impossible) to avoid at least one shockwave. Which isn't too bad. In many games it can be very difficult to avoid absolutely everything at all times, and Warframe has various knockdowns that exist in the game already.

What's horrible is the punishment in this specific setup, what happens afterwards. Losing total control of your character for much longer than a normal knockdown is bad in this game, especially when coupled with a slow aura from the LN enemies spawning in the same places. The slowdown and loss of input control on the player also means that you're susceptible to other attacks or a chain of knockdowns once the first one starts, regardless of if you're trying to dodge after getting hit with the first (because, again, you lose control of your character).

Do you know why so many games give you a brief invulnerability period after getting hit? Do you know why established competitive fighting games change physics as combos go on, outright prevent juggling past a few hits, or straight-up reduce the effectiveness of repeat moves?

'Cause getting stunlocked to death with no control of your character is not fun and is not good game design.

[Rambit23Z]

Just logged on to solo both missions. It really isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Just don't let them bunch up. 

 

And the boss fight was great, somewhat buggy, but great.

[(XBOX)BluAina]

Call me weird but I like the knockdowns idk, also as mentioned before jumping, and certain mods will help also frames and some of theyre abilites

[Specific.Zod]

1. Jump

1.1 Jump several times

2. use wall latch and bullet jump out of close area

3. easy. dont trigger alarm.

4. jump.

[shut]

Handspring really doesn't change much since one of the MoAs seems to have a special knockdown attack that last for waaay longer than normal knockdown would and as far as I know doesn't get affected by mods.

 

 

This. I'm surprised I've seen so few mentions of it all these years.

 

I haven't tested whether they ignore knockdown mods either, but I know for sure that the Bursa knockdowns take huge amounts of time to recover from. It's very easy to get stunlocked by a Bursa with no chance at recovery simply due to the broken durations and how many waves are spammed at once.

 

It also seems to behave differently based on which abilities are active for some reason. I didn't check if they fixed this yet, but during the last event with Bursas, my Handspring-toting Rhino was met with a lovely nine-second long knockdown when hit with a wave while Iron Skin was on.

 

 

OT:

+1 to OP.

Knockdowns and stuns are fine if they're well-telegraphed. Bursas, however, have such disgusting knockdown mechanics that the only reliable strategy to counter them is "get away" or "go godmode". This is not okay for what's supposed to be a skill-based shooting game.

Edited February 15, 2016 by SortaRandom

[Swailwort]

Ahem...

Solutions:

Ivara Zipline

Valkyr Zipline

Sure Footed

Handspring

Jumping

Broberon Hallowed Ground

Rhino Iron Skin

Atlas

Spamming anti knockdown melee attacks

[Marthrym]

Just jump like a crazed bunny, and then pretend you're Superman and glide gracefully in the air! That's what the devs want you to do apparently, since the Bursas tend to spam knockdown like there's no tomorrow if you get too close. Don't bother with bandaid mods, they just give bad habits, it's plain moronic to rely on them to do the job for you. Depending on the frame(s) you play it can pose no issue at all too. But again, it's not very smart to rely on specific abilities to save you, better rely on your own ability to react no matter your frame/build. So just be the bunny and jump. And then glide mid-air, usually it works even in cramped spaces. You can also keep your distance, or jump-kick them in the "face", tends to stun them long enough to either make some room between you and them, or to shoot them in the back.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Marthrym

[DoomsDayDan]

At least make the Bursa's shockwave a telegraphed attack like the Shockwave Moa's stomp

[RealPandemonium]

Equip Redirection, and learn to love to roll.  Knockdown recovery/prevention mods can also help if you desire training wheels.

 

If you're being knocked down constantly, it's your own fault.  

[SlightVect]

The amount of people missing the point of this post is fairly...Interesting. 

 

Call me a Cynic but uh....

 

You can't roll tech knockdowns anymore.

You can't perma block knockdowns and expect to get dps out/not get murdered from other units.

Handspring DOESN'T stop chain knockdowns in the frequency of Bursas. 

Jump button has a delay that is typically unresponsive/doesn't work in clutch scenarios.

Hysteria isn't a valid argument neither is forcing someone to play a frame(Remember when GodMode was a cheatcode and not the number 4? Yea,same.) 

 

There is no "It's your fault" argument. It's poorly constructed and on par with the fabled "Git gud" when it comes to other game breaking issues/anti fun mechanics. 

 

Cold procs and knockdowns are the most common causes of death because of how they encourage un-intuitive game play via Spam or potency. 

 

The only logical arguments here are "Knock down resist" mods. Atlas is an answer but not a fix to the problem at hand. 

 

Not even being hostile just pointing that out and expecting to be flamed. It's been proven that knockdowns need to be looked at when it comes to Bursas. Quit being masochists.

 

No clue why people are being rude with the "git gud" or "If you need training wheels" shtick 

 

+1 to OP. Spam knockdowns should never be a thing. I've played Frost during the event and had instances where I was just knocked down for 30 seconds straight by a single bursa because I'm a solo player and failed one tech and others when I've been perma slowed by Hyenas which forced me to use Rapid Resilience. 

[RealPandemonium]

When I get knocked down repeatedly, whether by a Bursa or whatever else, I know that it's because I'm being lazy and not reacting to something that I know how to beat.  Feeling entitled to play a certain way should not be rewarded.  Knockdowns are not unfair; we have tools to avoid them or mitigate their effect.  You should have to work at whatever playstyle you try to embrace.  

[Artekkor]

Totally agree, losing control is the most anoying thing for me.

I have to, and i repeat: HAVE TO use Handspring to make the gameplay like 25% less anoying.