Cells - This Is Warframes Endgame

[notionphil]

UPDATED - Thanks for supporting Cells with nearly 900 upvotes!

 

Because of you, Proxy Wars (quests for Warframe) is coming, after over a year of clamoring for quests!. What similarities will it have to Cells? Most importantly will it:

 

-be a multi mission run with a set squad?

-include permadeath to add risk/reward?

-always give a set reward?

-include pre-set, pre announced mission parameters? (eg: all enemies deal 2x melee damage and move 50% faster)

-incorporate lore and 'communications' into the missions?

-include quasi-scripted "impasses" that require tactics to overcome (eg: snipers nests, choke points, impromptu defenses?)

...discuss!

 

TL;DR - Cells are lore-driven, challenging multi-mission story arcs with preset obstacles and guaranteed risk/reward. Essentially they are quests and epic-quests for warframe.

 

Cells - Story Arcs for Warframe, designed using existing gameplay systems

A Cell is a preset series of missions attempted in sequence by one squad, with enhanced challenges and rewards. Each Cell has a specific plot/story and preset missions, with specific enhanced Challenges that fit the story and theme of the Cell.

 

Cells have an-always earned specifc reward, like an alert, that can only be won using frame and gear under the Cell's mod point cap (level based on # mod points equipped, not actual weapon rank). However, most Cells are level 30 Late/Endgame content. Death in Cells is permanent, if a player dies without being revived or using a revive - he is out of the Cell. Essentially, Cells are challenging multi-part quests that can be undertaken by groups - designed using many of the same gameplay systems already present in Warframe. Most Cells are designed for a full group of 4 players, but some are limited to 3,2 or even a lone Tenno operative!

As you will see, they are also the Endgame, which is not just an endgame at all...

 

Cells - Story Arcs for Warframe, designed using existing gameplay systems

A Cell is a preset series of missions attempted in sequence by one squad, with enhanced challenges and rewards. Each Cell has a specific plot/story and preset missions, with specific enhanced Challenges that fit the story and theme of the Cell.

 

Cells have an-always earned specifc reward, like an alert, that can only be won using frame and gear under the Cell's level cap (level based on # mod points equipped, not actual weapon level). However, most Cells are level 30 Late/Endgame content. Death in Cells is permanent, if a player dies without being revived or using a revive - he is out of the Cell. Essentially, Cells are challenging multi-part quests that can be undertaken by groups - designed using many of the same gameplay systems already present in Warframe. Most Cells are designed for a full group of 4 players, but some are limited to 3,2 or even a lone Tenno operative!

As you will see, they are also the Endgame, which is not just an endgame at all...

 

 

Why Cells - Or, what is this endgame you speak of?:

Warframe is definitely fun and dare I say, brilliantly open ended. But a common complaint amongst us Mastery 7+'s is that "endgame" warframe is too easy/grindy/monotonous - we strive for more powerful equipment, but the more potent weaponry only helps us further outclass our challenges. What is the greater goal, get more OP weapons to see how far we can get in Outer Terminus? What is the endgame?

In reality, an endgame alone isn't what Warframe needs. Think - your stable of Frames and weapons is constantly in flux, especially with Formas. You are high, low and in between at any moment.  Warframe needs a Metagame - something that rewards challenging yourself, and not overpowering content - and actually enjoying using, leveling and learning more frames and gear.

Cells are the Metagame. They address this issue by making memorable, pulse pounding challenges that reward play at every level. They also give players an amazing reason to use Formas and learn their gear. They are easy to create, easy to deploy and allow for plot development - essentially Cells give players a new way and reason to use every asset - and developers a cohesive way to extend and deepen the Warframe universe.

 

 

Accessing and Running Cells:

Each cell is unlockable via a virtual Dossier (akin to a void key) that must be built from a BP.  Using the Dossier consumes it, however, building a Dossier DOES NOT REMOVE THE BP - cells have a built in economic function. However, only one Dossier can be built at a time - so plan which Cell you want to go on next! Some BPs can be purchased for credits, others are drops, alerts rewards or plat.  Build time ranges from 1 to 7 days and costs range from 10k to as high as 500K - cells aren't something a player will experience multiple times throughout a day. Players should plan, prepare and put a trusted team together before executing a cell.

Don't forget - cells always give their signature reward, so a 500K run will not end in utter disappointment if you succeed. The challenge is not in the RNG, it's in the Cell. Each Cell's Boss will also have a chance of dropping a specific existing rare (eg Blaze, or Banshee helm), but that's a secondary gain.

Using a Dossier takes the Squad to a unique, linear system specific to that Cell, with each mission represented as dot like the current mission system. The names of each mission and the background Diorama of the system should be unique to the Cell.

Each Cell has a specific plot and mission structure, for example "Siege of New New York", which will always comprise of Raid(grineer), Sabotage, Assassinate(corpus), Defend (to wave 10). The Dossier will contain cell information, and Lotus will fill in details of how the Cells actions relate to the Warframe world during and between missions.

 

 

Cell Difficulty Level:
Each Cell has an enemy level and difficulty level of easy, medium, hard, extreme or agent that reflects the number and severity of the Mission Parameters and Impasses. You get bonus mastery XP if you use a frame within the target level range of the Cell. You get substantial multipliers for each weapon/sentinel you use that is within this range. (edit: not needed) This allows players to be rewarded for challenging themselves, AND for having the highest tier equipment.

Additionally, players only get the Cells signature reward if their level is under level cap of the Cell! Level is calculated by number of mod points equipped on an item, NOT by item rank. EX: level 20 Cell means you need under 40 mod points on your frame and each weapon. So you won't have to un-rank etc to run a lower level Cell.  Hard, Extreme and Agent level Cells will all but necessitate that we Forma our gear and work with a skilled team to survive. Even on a level 10 Cell!

 

While most Cells will be level 30, there will be a number of Lv 10 and Lv 20 Cells for both new players with low level gear, as well as more difficult low level Cells that await you after you decide to Forma, or acquire a new loadout.

 

Cell Challenges:
Cells are built upon the regular missions we all know and love like Raid, Defense and Assassinate, but made unique and challenging with Recon Conditions pointed out by Lotus pre-mission and Impasses added by the enemy factions in real time.

>Recon Conditions:

Recon Conditions are challenging mission-wide conditions which require a change of strategy to overcome. They are similar to the 'fire' and 'ice' mechanics we already experience, but taken to an extreme, tactical level. Unlike those random occurrences, players are alerted to Recon Conditions Prior to the mission to add a strategic element to gear/mod selection. Recon Conditions will be listed on the planetary map prior to mission start, and Lotus will also voice over them in the lobby. As you will see below - gear, artifact and mod choice will be extremely important and should be discussed in the mission lobby.

Recon Conditions : 1-3+ Conditions will be present on a mission, mirroring the difficulty level. (edit: many more can be added)

• Assault Vessel - Scattered Shock Teams of 3-5 higher level units with unique coloration/team name are found throughout vessel
     
• Low gravity - Ships gravity core has been damaged in an assault, jump height is greatly increased
     
• Asteroid Field - Ship bombarded by asteroids at random intervals, Lotus will countdown before each. Jump or be knocked down and take damage.
     
• Ship To Ship Combat - Explosions, shaking and energy beams will strike the ship. Lotus will pre-warn of impending strike and WP area.
     
• Ship To Ship Combat II - Same as I, but enemy contingents will board and engage the primary faction in combat.
     
• Ambush Opportunity - We have not had the time to ready our weapons, we start the mission with no ammunition
     
• Unarmored Ship - any projectiles hitting walls will puncture hull and cause vacuum damage to all in room.
  

   

     

• Blitzkrieg - Sneak Attack! Health, Energy and Ammo will not recharge between this mission and next. Gear can still be switched.

   

     

• Infected Vessel Mutation  - all enemies explode on death, making close combat risky
     
• Infected Vessel Mutation II - all enemies are poisonous, making close combat risky
     
• Self Destructing Vessel - must complete mission in x time, can hack certain panels for extra time
     
• Self Destructing Vessel II - must complete mission in .75 x time, can hack certain panels for extra time
     
• Derelict Vessel - the ship is running low on resources, no ammo dropped during mission
     
• Derelict Vessel II - the ship is running low on resources, no ammo energy or life dropped during mission
     
• Orokin Disruptors- no uber usage
     
• Orokin Disruptors II - no power usage
     
• Comm Signal Tracked - Can only be manually Revived, no plat-revives.
   
• Experimental Shielding System - Damage from projectile weapons greatly reduced, melee is unaffected
   
• Lights Out - Lights are fully or partially off in most rooms.
     
• Enhanced Security System - damaging sniper turrets all over level, track sound of loud weapons and power usage. Quiet weapons and stealthy mechanics preferred.
     
• Hull Shattered - No shields, ice everywhere
     
• Infested Atmosphere - life constantly, slowly depletes (bring a trinity!). Lockers likely to contain med-kits to treat the recent infection (temporarily prevent life drain).

>Impasses:
  
Impasses are intense challenges that occur during a mission which only take place in one room: In general, the challenge must be completed (enemies killed etc) before team can move on. Lotus announces an Impasse and its type in the hallway prior, which is always free of enemies. "Wait, I'm detecting an Impasse...This could be serious (then specific Impasse intro)". There is always a 2 person (breach) door before an Impasse. This will allow some brief time for the Cell to discuss how to deal with the Impasse before it is encountered.

Impasse List: 0-3+ Impasses will be present on a mission, mirroring the difficulty level. (edit: many more can be added)

 

• Any Recon Condition - Any of the above recon conditions can be present as well, but only in the impasse room.
   
• Shock Team Detected - Room includes a team of 3-5 buffed higher level units with unique coloration
     
• Elite Team Detected - Room includes team of 3-5 buffed higher level units, led by a named boss model (like alert missions) with unique coloration
     
• Counter Assassin Team Detected - Room includes a team of 2-4 higher level buffed named boss models (like alert missions) with unique coloration
     
• Experimental Shield Generator: Weak Spot - enemies only vulnerable in their weak spot, all other spots 99% damage reduction
     
• Experimental Shield Generator: Stealth -  fewer enemies, but only vulnerable to sneak attack. Shield regens 100% when aware.
     
• Reinforcement Portal(needs lore for each faction) - enemies constantly spawn until door is closed by destroying x generators
     
• Door Control Inaccessible - Parkour Challenge. In order to open door, one tenno must parkour to a certain spot that is far off ground.
     
• Security Vacuum Room - Parkour Challenge. No enemies. Room will open to vaccum in x seconds, all tenno must exit by then or die.
     
• Security Center -  Hack a terminal X times in a row successfully with different, difficult hack patterns, while enemies swarm in. Team should protect the hacker.
     
• Secure Door - The exit door is armored, and has numerous mounted turrets which have to be destroyed before the door will open.
     
• Infested Atmosphere in Room - health constantly depleted in room
     
• Large Hull Breach - shield constantly depleted in room
     
• Informant in Room - tenno informant in disguise - Identifiable by aiming at him, which shows his name. killing him will cause Lotus to alert the team and give a revive timer. His bleedout will end mission.
    

 

 

 

Cell Rewards:
Each cell has a specific signature reward (like alerts) that are always given on completion of the final mission of a Cell - so long as the players frame and gear are under the Cells level range. These can range from large amounts of a particular resource (5 orokin cells anyone) to a BP/component, to a completed weapon. Completing sets of related Cells which compose story arcs (eg: Assault on Earth, Fall of New York, London Rising), rewards players with Honorifics - plot based cosmetic/gameplay tweak rewards which we will flesh out the details of later.

 

Cells that relate to the backstory/lore of a specific piece of gear ex: 'The First Skana' will generally give cosmetic/skin/helmet rewards for that gear. Cells of this nature are a great way to give additional depth/lore to pieces of the Warframe universe, and prompt players to re-explore their arsenal.

 

Why Would We Re-Run Completed Cells? (alpha idea - feedback appreciated)

 

This great question has been asked many times. Firstly, the overhead to create a Cell is small in most cases, so the Devs can create dozens or hundreds without adding many new assets (art/sound/content) to the game. Cells are basically like a story-board that DE can put existing content (or slightly tweaked content like skins etc) on to give it meaning. They could eventually even be used for player-created Content, like DE has mentioned....but that's for later...

 

For now, lets talk about why we'd re-run Cells and how much value/longevity a single Cell could add to the game. There are three primary re-playability benefits of Cells:

 

• Fixing drop tables instantly - The primary source of Mods in WF are drops from enemies. However, because spawns are random, bosses are the only enemies in WF that you can actually locate and thus farm for drops.

   

  Cells would increase the number of unique enemies with their own drop table by 1000% overnight, as each nearly Cell would have its own boss (even if its a re-skin) instantly making it so each rare drop in game could be added to a specific enemy. This would literally fix drop tables instantly.

   

  EX: Shred would have a 15% drop chance from the boss of a specific Cell. This would allow players to hunt every piece of rare mods/gear with more precision, but the timer on building dossiers would prevent hardcore farming. With dozens of rare mods that are otherwise frustratingly impossible to work towards, this would be a great reason to re-run Cells.

   

   

• Promotes Teaching New Players/Clanmates - Helping a player who has not yet completed a Cell, through a Cell that you've beaten will give you additional goodwill bonuses, increasing rare drop rates on that particular Cell. This would promote re-running Cells specifically asking for new players to help guide - increasing the availability of groups for Cells and giving Clans/good Samaritans something awesome to do for new players.

   

  Also, because of Mod limits on Cells, the Cell will STILL be a challenge to you every time you run it. Want to farm? No free ride here.

   

   

• For Glory and Honor! - Cells would also offer additional challenges in an 'achievement' sort of manner. This was what Nightmare Mode should have been!

   

  Each Cell has 3 Lotus symbols that can be earned by completing it. Simply completing a Cell with the default challenges/conditions would reward you with one lotus symbol, however there may be 2 addl lotus symbols to earn by overcoming the Cell in a pre-specified way. More mission conditions might be added. 2x enemies might be present. Maybe stealth is required for the entire Cell. Maybe all enemies are heavies. Maybe your team must be 4x Ash. Maybe you must use only melee. The options are endless...

   

  Each Cell would have leaderboards (with clan affiliation) for each of these modes as well. At some point in time, these achievements could tie into a gamewide achievement system (it's gotta come someday), many of which may come from completing Cells.

   

   

 

 

Cells - Conclusion:

Warframe needs more than content - we need a reason to use and appreciate the awesome content that's here. Adding more high lv Planetary Systems, frames, weapons and mods is a stopgap fix. We'll grind them out and then burn even harder through the remainder of the content, sticking a level 30 Supra and Dual Broncos on our Lv 1 Void Frame to instantly rocket it to high level. Then sit bored until we get a new toy to OP content with.

 

Simply, Cells are mission sets that Lotus sends Tenno on to acheieve a critical objective. But to the Warframe universe, Cells could be The Point. The story that unravels only as you progress - across all levels of your arsenal. The metagame that gives you a real reason to get your Gorgon forma'd just so, finally build Volt and learn exactly how to parkour up that wall. The challenge that will bring Clans together and turn casual squads into new friends. Cells are the glue.

What will the plots be? I'm a gameplay mechanic guy, not a plot guy :) Plot Arcs will most certainly include the Fall of Earth, Orokin Contact, Grineer Homeword etc. There can be dozens, or more. I'll leave this sparse unless inspiration strikes. But it's easy to imagine the tools and creative freedom that Cells give the devs to tell the Warframe story without major changes to the existing gameplay systems.

Imagine the implementations - Specific Cell missions could have persistent Recon conditions which fit in with their story, such as a fleet under attack, or an experimental Corpus ship.  Some Cells can require that the player use a specific frames or weapons in order to gain their reward - which benefits only that gear. Imagine a Cell Arc designed for each Frame to tell its backstory and reward it with a unique look or gameplay tweak! This is a major opportunity to flesh out the universe with a low dev overhead.

 

I think Cells are a huge step in the right direction for Warframe's long term success. Any opinions? Ideas?

 

 

Ideas Added/Suggested/Inspired by Community

 

SolluxCaptorTA: De-Level your gear/frames

 

EDIT - no need for this anymore, now Cells level restriction is based on mod points. If you want to run a lower level Cell just take some mods off of your weapons.

 

Players can de-level their gear so that they meet the level limit of a specific Cell. This is not something players would use frequently, as most Cells are lv 30. But if someone really wanted to run a specific Cell with specific gear, this would be an option.

 

EG: drop lv 25 Ash to lv 15 to meet the level limhis backstory Cell. This drop is permanent, he'd lose all mod slots etc, and not gain any mastery in that gear/frame until the previous level of XP was reached. XP between 15 and 25 would be gained again as normal, but no mastery XP for Ash earned until lv 25 again.

 

I like this mechanic because you'd be able to make big decisions on the fly - "Should I drop my Trinity down to level 15 to handle the last mission in this cell? We're short on healing and the Recon Conditions say we won't be getting any more life globes".

 

My thought is most users would prefer to Forma, but those who don't have access to Forma could do this in a pinch, or if they just barely passed the level and dont want to start over. I think its a great idea.

 

Aizeol: Additional Recon Condition - Blitzkrieg

 

Listed in body above.

 

Un1ted: Duo and Solo Specific Cells

 

Some specific Cells would have max size of 1 or 2. Awesome idea. Also great for those who prefer solo play and can't find groups.

Edited September 21, 2014 by notionphil

[Un1ted]

Each Cell has a specific plot and mission structure, for example "Siege of New New York"

 

Will this one star Kurt Russell as Snake Plissken?

 

If so, count me IN..!

[OriKlein]

Greetings.

It is quite a chunk of text and I have not the time to digest the whole of it.

I did read the preamble without getting into the nitty and gritty details of the execution.

All in all it is a good idea that will add much exciting gameplay onto the game. Somewhat reminiscent of PSO, STO and otherwise "end game missions".

The first critique I have will be against the removal of revives. It is a set mechanism and the use of platinum to replenish revives is core fiscal component in the Warframe business plan (whether it is used or not, which is a different topic).

I'll get into the depth of it later as time permits.

But for now, in general, I support this notion.

Best Regards,

[biggstobacco]

Content as challenging as this sounds as though it requires a full team, which means you must be able to revive dead players and players need to be allowed to use their existing self-revives.

 

Other than that, this is a seriously good idea.

Edited June 11, 2013 by biggstobacco

[SolluxCaptorTA]

Holy motherf***ing... I don't even have words for this.

This is genius. Sheer genius.

[Slayblaze]

In my opinion the entire game should be something similar to this - just scrap the current "free roam" mode which makes up the entirety of Warframe at the moment. WF so far has no real purpose, you just roam around wherever you feel like going, wandering aimlessly farming for scraps and parts as we mindlessly slaughter whole platoons to level up our frames and weapons so we can more efficiently slaughter yet another endless platoon of baddies.

 

There is no depth, no strategy no real tactics involved other than occasionally having to duck behind a crate to let our shields recharge. There needs to be some overarching thread that ties some sort of a plot together, some sort of purpose that exists within the game world. Right now the only purpose that exists is entirely outside the gameworld, the purpose of players to level up gear, and the acquisition of materials that allow us to do so. That's it. The only exception is the recent addition of the clan dojo but you basically do the exact same thing to build the dojo as you do for frames and weapons: farm mats.

 

Warframe desperately needs something similar to what the OP proposes as its main mode - not just as endgame. And it needs it soon - like yesterday.

[Aizeol]

Love the concept. I'm still reading through this at the moment, but I wanted to put in an idea.

Would these missions be back-to-back in such a way that ammo, energy, and health don't recharge between them?

Meaning: If you end a mission with only 50 HP, 200 rounds in your rifle, and 35 in your secondary, you start the next mission with all of that. Or would there be a slight/full replenishment between the missions?

[Yorinar]

I think this lays out a great framework for building missions you actually have to plan out builds and groups for. Great ideas. I'm still digesting and will update post with feedback as I think of it. But you have my +1.

[SolluxCaptorTA]

Something I would like to suggest: Artificial level changing.

Let's say one Cell gives a Wave Motion Gun BP, and I really want this. It's for level 15 gear, and I just finished farming Hades for the credits I need, when my Frame levels up. It's now level 16, and I can't get the WMG BP.

What I would suggest is you could choose to drop the Frame a level, back to 15. This could be permanent (you have to level it up again) or temporary (it keeps its current affinity, it just counts as level 15 for mod capacity, health/shields, Cells, etc.) but would still let you do cells and let non Platinum users (who can't always get Forma) do this too.

And, just something to make sure of-you get the reward if you GO IN with the appropriate leveled gear. If you level up in there and exceed the level allowed, you still get the reward.

[notionphil]

Guys, thanks for the thought provoking and positive and replies. I also welcome critical ones; if this thread is to be of any value we need to refine this idea as much as possible.

 

 

The first critique I have will be against the removal of revives. It is a set mechanism and the use of platinum to replenish revives is core fiscal component in the Warframe business plan (whether it is used or not, which is a different topic).

 

 

 

Content as challenging as this sounds as though it requires a full team, which means you must be able to revive dead players and players need to be allowed to use their existing self-revives.

 

Other than that, this is a seriously good idea.

 

 

Hi OriKlien and Biggstobacco thank you for the critique. To clarify my intent - the mechanic is that if you die and 'abandon', you cannot rejoin in the next Cell mission.

 

Revives via team and via plat clicky are usable in all Cell missions unless the Comm Signal Tracked Recon Condition is present. That would prevent Plat Clicky revives for that particular cell mission and would be an intense risk Recon Condition to keep everyone on their toes.

 

 

 

 

 

Warframe desperately needs something similar to what the OP proposes as its main mode - not just as endgame. And it needs it soon - like yesterday.

 

I appreciate the kind words and agree with your sentiment, but I do believe that cells need to be somewhat rarified to keep them interesting. You might be able to run a cell once every day or so, or help Clan mates with a cell etc, daily. However, you will need to prep, plan and execute every single time to survive. 

 

The action in the main game now becomes a planning and strategic period to engineer your gear; EX: get your Ash to the right level for the Backstory Arc. Or forma him and start again so you can take on an Agent difficulty level 5 Cell.

 

 

 

Something I would like to suggest: Artificial level changing.

Let's say one Cell gives a Wave Motion Gun BP, and I really want this. It's for level 15 gear, and I just finished farming Hades for the credits I need, when my Frame levels up. It's now level 16, and I can't get the WMG BP.

What I would suggest is you could choose to drop the Frame a level, back to 15. This could be permanent (you have to level it up again) or temporary (it keeps its current affinity, it just counts as level 15 for mod capacity, health/shields, Cells, etc.) but would still let you do cells and let non Platinum users (who can't always get Forma) do this too.

And, just something to make sure of-you get the reward if you GO IN with the appropriate leveled gear. If you level up in there and exceed the level allowed, you still get the reward.

 

Excellent idea - You should definitely be able to permanently drop your eq levels back to whatever you want, it would simply remove mod slots. Thank you for that suggestion, I will add. Temporary is too, well, temporary. Cells are not supposed to be casual. They are a big deal. You should take a deep breath and check on your squad before hitting that Play Now button.

 

 

I would also hope a forma BP would also be a reward for a LV 30 Easy Cell on a 7 day timer (even tho I don't mind spending plat).

 

 

Yes, leveling up inside is fine, you would still get your reward.

[notionphil]

Love the concept. I'm still reading through this at the moment, but I wanted to put in an idea.

Would these missions be back-to-back in such a way that ammo, energy, and health don't recharge between them?

Meaning: If you end a mission with only 50 HP, 200 rounds in your rifle, and 35 in your secondary, you start the next mission with all of that. Or would there be a slight/full replenishment between the missions?

 

Hi Aizeol,

 

I think you just made another Recon Condition :)

 

'Blitzkrieg' - Next mission occurs immediately after this one, Health, Energy and Ammo will not recharge between this mission and next.

 

Gear would still be switchable because the next mission would have other Recon conditions that you'd need to provide for. We could of course make Blitzkrieg II, which would not even allow gear switching, but I believe that partially defeats the purpose of tactical planning. Unless the Recon Conditions were all listed up front - but that adds more dev complexity so I'd suggest not.

 

The goal is to keep the cells very lightweight for DE to build.

[Un1ted]

 

I appreciate the kind words and agree with your sentiment, but I do believe that cells need to be somewhat rarified to keep them interesting. You might be able to run a cell once every day or so, or help Clan mates with a cell etc, daily. However, you will need to prep, plan and execute every single time to survive. 

 

The action in the main game now becomes a planning and strategic period to engineer your gear; EX: get your Ash to the right level for the Backstory Arc. Or forma him and start again so you can take on an Agent difficulty level 5 Cell.

 

I also agree, but some of your ideas are too good to have them be very "rare". It would be nice to have some of those random conditions sprinkled throughout the regular normal game, maybe on a slightly less epic scale than the cell missions.

 

One possible concern I might have is the cell concept seems a bit reliant on teams, to the exclusion of the solo player. While the overall focus of this game is co-op of course, there have to be allowances for solo'ers too as oftentimes some people may be unable to play in a group for various reasons such as lag or regional timezone or maybe just being unable to find other competent players regularly.

[notionphil]

I also agree, but some of your ideas are too good to have them be very "rare". It would be nice to have some of those random conditions sprinkled throughout the regular normal game, maybe on a slightly less epic scale than the cell missions.

 

One possible concern I might have is the cell concept seems a bit reliant on teams, to the exclusion of the solo player. While the overall focus of this game is co-op of course, there have to be allowances for solo'ers too as oftentimes some people may be unable to play in a group for various reasons such as lag or regional timezone or maybe just being unable to find other competent players regularly.

 

Thanks again, I have plenty more ideas to spice up regular gameplay but will reserve them for another thread. Warframe's universe, systems and actual combat have an amazing amount of potential. The strategic tactical elements are what's missing - we have awesome tools but no challenging problems to use them on.

 

And...of course....there should be specific duo and solo cells :) Thanks for implicitly suggesting it! Will add to post.

[Otaiken]

Nice

[nakatotaiyou]

nice idea but certainly not a metagame, cells feel more like endgame to me, just more complicated missions rather than an actual metagame.

[ReiganCross]

TL:DR is common courtesy, man o.o'... It usually summarizes the theme so we can judge wether we want to read the whole thing or not. I'll read it, sure, but please set a TL:DR.

[nakatotaiyou]

also i dont think level restrictions are a good idea, just make lower level cells give worse rewards, forcing you to delevel will just lead to uneccesary grinding, there is enough motive to use formas already and that is to mod and perfect your weapon exactly the way you want it.

[Aizeol]

TL:DR is common courtesy, man o.o'... It usually summarizes the theme so we can judge wether we want to read the whole thing or not. I'll read it, sure, but please set a TL:DR.

Didn't start that way if I remember. It was originally a way to dismiss a post because it was too long, so people didn't read it.

Still, nice to have a summary at the end of an extremely long post if it is applicable.

[notionphil]

also i dont think level restrictions are a good idea, just make lower level cells give worse rewards, forcing you to delevel will just lead to uneccesary grinding, there is enough motive to use formas already and that is to mod and perfect your weapon exactly the way you want it.

As you mentioned in your first post, you believe Cells aren't not a metagame. Here's why they are, and why level restrictions are critical.

Right now, when a new frame/weapon comes out, most high Mastery players are going to slap it on other level 30 gear and take it to Xini/Terminus to power level it in only a few hours. We are burning through content. Even if they designed a new frame and weapon every week, we'd PL it and then be bored, as we're doing the exact same thing with a slightly different model.

Most players however, don't have every frame and weapon. Thus, they still have huge opportunities to utilize low level content - they don't have to de-level.

What motivation do I have to create an Ember and a Burston? Currently, none. I know Ember and Burston aren't great(I have ~20 items at 30). But Cells give me a reason to start again. I won't de-level - I'll use, learn and enjoy more of Warframe's already existent content. And, I won't be burning through it.

Then, sure, go back to grinding Xini for a few levels if you like. But remember there will be a level 8 Agent Difficulty Cell you've missed, and a LV 9 Easy that's specific to Latron that you never leveled up, and your buddy needs help with a level 10 and.....well you get the point.

Cells aren't just about doing a bunch of missions in a row. They are the element Warframe needs to get it's players to 'stop and smell the roses' - to enjoy the journey, not just rush to the top.

Edited June 12, 2013 by notionphil

[notionphil]

TL:DR is common courtesy, man o.o'... It usually summarizes the theme so we can judge wether we want to read the whole thing or not. I'll read it, sure, but please set a TL:DR.

 

Hey guys...As you can see by my post count I am not a frequent forum poster. I'm more of an offline writer, so my intro and conclusion do summarize the post.

[notionphil]

first of all good sir... thanks for taking the time writing tons of text :)

so this is basically what would be a raid in any regular mmorpg , right?

 

what i want to know is...

won´t some frames be a bit more desired or rather necessary in order to get through there?

i mean challenging stuff is great...

but players should still be able to play the frame they want

in my opinion there is no point in forcing one of them to play with a trinity for example in order to complete the missions

 

 

Raids are generally multi group encounters. Cells are more akin to Quests and Epic Quests from other MMORPG's - a series of regular dungeons (missions in our case) made more difficult and tied together with a cohesive plot. Also, multiple Cells would join together to form a story arc, and give an 'epic' reward for completion.

 

Only certain Cells would require specific equipment - it would generally be related to the backstory of that item. EX: "The First Skana" Cell might tell the origin of the blade's reverence - the story of a team of Tenno, pinned down and out of ammo, defeating hordes of Grineer with a nothing but the legendary blade, and require that you use a Skana for its missions.

 

The goal is to help you enjoy and appreciate each frame and item, not just for the DPS or uberness - but for what and why it exists.

[Phaenur]

It's good to see another thread like this floating around - especially one with an idea this solid.

 

Something similar popped up on my own thread when Dieson suggested a "subsector" area around each planetoid that would open with a key or out of an alert and essentially present a zoomed-in map of a flagship, headquarters, treasure room, or what have you.  For that matter, I could easily see his idea (the subsector) adapted to give each boss a unique flavor - take, for example, actually climbing up and through an Outpost-tileset Mount Everest and completing several sub-missions to finally reach Vay Hek.  That idea tied in more with my concept of an ongoing battle for each region than with yours, but considering that they all draw on mechanics already in the game I see no reason why they can't coexist.  Especially not when I like your concept so much.

 

One thing that would help your presentation is an example.  You mentioned the "First Skana" sequence in your most recent reply and that pretty much sold me on it, but having something like that in the OP (there's a bit with the Siege of New York but it could use a little expansion) would make it easier to get across and probably sell a lot more people on the idea.  Again, thanks for the brilliant post and I hope it gets the attention it deserves.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Phaenur

[Kielix7]

Couldn't have wall-of-texted it better myself. 

[nakatotaiyou]

As you mentioned in your first post, you believe Cells aren't not a metagame. Here's why they are, and why level restrictions are critical.

Right now, when a new frame/weapon comes out, most high Mastery players are going to slap it on other level 30 gear and take it to Xini/Terminus to power level it in only a few hours. We are burning through content. Even if they designed a new frame and weapon every week, we'd PL it and then be bored, as we're doing the exact same thing with a slightly different model.

Most players however, don't have every frame and weapon. Thus, they still have huge opportunities to utilize low level content - they don't have to de-level.

What motivation do I have to create an Ember and a Burston? Currently, none. I know Ember and Burston aren't great(I have ~20 items at 30). But Cells give me a reason to start again. I won't de-level - I'll use, learn and enjoy more of Warframe's already existent content. And, I won't be burning through it.

Then, sure, go back to grinding Xini for a few levels if you like. But remember there will be a level 8 Agent Difficulty Cell you've missed, and a LV 9 Easy that's specific to Latron that you never leveled up, and your buddy needs help with a level 10 and.....well you get the point.

Cells aren't just about doing a bunch of missions in a row. They are the element Warframe needs to get it's players to 'stop and smell the roses' - to enjoy the journey, not just rush to the top.

ehhh so you're saying the point is to give motive to use new weapons/frames? i much prefer the current motive which is im using what i enjoy most using, this way it feels ill either have to use some weapon i dont like or delevel my favourites ones, in both cases something i wouldnt want to do... my point is that the problem isnt people burning through content by power leveling them, its that we need to give more motive as to their actual usage, not force players to delevel or use stuff they dont like. how are story missions a metagame? just because you are forced to use new content? i want to use new content because i like it, not so i could just have access to a mission. actually what you wrote at the end, you said:

Cells aren't just about doing a bunch of missions in a row. They are the element Warframe needs to get it's players to 'stop and smell the roses' - to enjoy the journey, not just rush to the top.

what warframe needs is something that they can do when they reach the top, the journey is already enjoyable. i think cells are a nice idea as missions, but as far as metagame goes they do nothing but force players to use more equipment. i instead think we should be using weapons/frames that suit our playstyles and we enjoy using . i think thats why mastery rank doesnt unlock too much equipment, if it did players like me would be forced to use equipment they dont like, then throw it away, just in order to reach a mastery rank. your cells work exactly the same way in that aspect.

Edited June 12, 2013 by nakatotaiyou

[Relkin]

Do it DE....