New patch.

[DiaDia32]

So wait is the whole new skill tree thing letting us level up past 30 now? Or what? Cuz I want more points. I mean I invested all my points thinking we'd get to around level 40-50 now. Sadface.

[[DE]Steve]

Consider it an experiment: the idea is to force some specialization so that your Volt is not the same as mine. The overall power potential (due to specialization) has increased, but it requires trade-offs and planning.

[Mebhin]

I approve of this experiment because I now have over 1k shields :3

[DiaDia32]

I already thought it was customized enough. And if you wanted players to customize better and not all pick the same thing why not organize it better.

Like have the center point. Then have a tree that focuses on straight up health. Like 5 points of health in a row. Then another with shield capacity. Then another with say Ability one and Ability 2, 3, and 4 would have their own respectivly. What I'm trying to say is. I don't think you should force people to get _____ to get _____

If you wanted customized stats simply give us essentially stat points. And you can still raise the cap that way. I might invest all my points into health, wheras you might focus on your powers and mod slots.

Obviously putting 50 mod slots shouldn't be allowed though so make it so you just get a mod slot every 5 levels or so. Same with abilities you shouldn't be able to have level 50 of Overcharge so just put a cap on it. A cap of 5. Or something. Most people would balance it out their own way. Like I don't really like electric shield I almost never used it when I was playing my volt. I could simply take cover instead. So if given the option of only having one level of Electric shield and invest those 4 points into something else I would. I only got the latter levels of it to get mod slots. So yeah.

[ian_quia2]

I agree on the specialization. But forcing me to take on other skills just to get to the next point doesn't work that well.

[DiaDia32]

Exactly my point. Which is why you should organize the skill points in a way that doesn't force someone who wants to go heavy on they're skills and power get health or shield or viceversa

I agree on the specialization. But forcing me to take on other skills just to get to the next point doesn't work that well.

[kgino1045]

And it really make the game more harder..

but the purpose of this Experiment is so exciting and greatful

Cheers

[Sealgaire]

It makes the game easier, actually. Now it's not too hard to get 10 mod slots (2 more than before) without sacrificing much. Since mods can grant much larger bonuses than upgrade nodes, your power potential is greater. I used my new mod slots for +75% sprint speed and +55% stamina recharge and I'm in heaven.

[Saekas]

I do think that placing mod slots into the tree now is a bit of a detriment though. In order to get the mod slots, you have to go through a lot of things you might not want to. While I like the current system of specialization perhaps it might be better to place the mod slots outside of the tree? You could have mod slots unlock every 3 levels, since there's 10 of them currently. This would allow you to replace those areas in the tree with more specialized stats. Or if 10 mod slots is too unbalanced, return it to the original 8, with them still unlocking every 3 levels, so you'll have every slot at 24 (With a supercharged Frame anyways).

[Budwizerd]

The specialization is already in place with different frames. I usually play with two of my friends, and currently we're running Volt, Excalibur, and Ember.

Volt: Shock and Overload are most used. Electric Shield is situational and Speed is more used for fun.

Excalibur: Slash Dash is what he uses most often. Super Jump if he has an issue getting up somewhere and rarely uses Radial Blind and Radial Javelin

Ember: Fire Ball and Fire Blast used most often as World on Fire wasn't as amazing as Fire Blast (could be wrong, still trying to figure that last skill out)

So now, since you've added specialization, we can do:

Volt: Focused on Shock, Overload, and Power Max

Volt: Tank focus with lots of shields and health

Volt: Focuses on mods

And where do we get the people wanting different frames? We already have different play styles with weapons, mods, and cards to where I won't be playing the same Volt as my friend even if we have all the upgrades in how it used to be.

I honestly think this will just turn it into a "which build spec is best for [frame]?" type of deal. Some posts might even pop up asking for certain frames with certain specs, making anyone who didn't go that spec either have a more difficult time getting in with a group of people or forcing them respec (60k credits) and go in a direction they didn't want to do. Currently, you can join anyone that has "public" on, so that's not the entire issue as that'll just show up more on the forums than in-game.

"Playing against the infested? Bring an Ember! ...but not that one, the one that has his Fire Blast at max... oh? He's willing to respec for it? Cool! Let him in!"

Frankly, I'd just like to see a game where your play style is based on what class and weapons you have, not something based on where you put your points at end-game levels. Once you get that, you can actually focus on making yourself a better player rather than making sure you have the right build. The ability to have different weapons and frames, and to be able to change them out between each level, is what makes this game fluid between one level and the next. That alone is what set you apart from other games I've played and what kept me coming back. Please reconsider making the choice about how you want to spec your frame, but rather make it on which frame you'd like to play as. You've just released two more frames which look amazing to play and show that the team is interested in making more frames. Personally I'd rather see the focus be on the frames themselves and the differences between them, than for the focus to be on which 'build' to have.

[FreshJB2]

I already thought it was customized enough. And if you wanted players to customize better and not all pick the same thing why not organize it better.

Like have the center point. Then have a tree that focuses on straight up health. Like 5 points of health in a row. Then another with shield capacity. Then another with say Ability one and Ability 2, 3, and 4 would have their own respectivly. What I'm trying to say is. I don't think you should force people to get _____ to get _____

If you wanted customized stats simply give us essentially stat points. And you can still raise the cap that way. I might invest all my points into health, wheras you might focus on your powers and mod slots.

Obviously putting 50 mod slots shouldn't be allowed though so make it so you just get a mod slot every 5 levels or so. Same with abilities you shouldn't be able to have level 50 of Overcharge so just put a cap on it. A cap of 5. Or something. Most people would balance it out their own way. Like I don't really like electric shield I almost never used it when I was playing my volt. I could simply take cover instead. So if given the option of only having one level of Electric shield and invest those 4 points into something else I would. I only got the latter levels of it to get mod slots. So yeah.

Agreed. Although the current caps in place would work fine. Just please don't force us to jump through hoops to get to a particular stat.

@Bud Considering most of the "good" powers are low level (when it comes to bosses) i don't see how variable frames would be an issue. If you choose mods over powers or health over everything else, you will still be able to contribute to the team.

Edited January 30, 2013 by FreshJB2

[Cinderain]

Exactly my point. Which is why you should organize the skill points in a way that doesn't force someone who wants to go heavy on they're skills and power get health or shield or viceversa

I was thinking of mentioning something like this...

I like Slash Dash on Excalibur, but with upgrades, the extended range makes it weird to control and sends me waaaaay away from my original target. But to get to other skills I want, I would have to upgrade it even more.

[Budwizerd]

@Bud Considering most of the "good" powers are low level (when it comes to bosses) i don't see how variable frames would be an issue. If you choose mods over powers or health over everything else, you will still be able to contribute to the team.

@Fresh

Most of the low level powers are geared towards one enemy. I've mainly played as Volt and having Overload is almost essential when we're being overrun. Downside to it before was that it cost 100 energy, so I had to ration out my energy to make sure I could get that back in case we got into another sticky situation. Maxing that skill uses 14 points already, and getting all the Power Maxes cost me another 14. I only have 2 more points (1 to get my speed ability unlocked and the other for my 10th modslot) to use to branch out and try other things in unless I want to respec. Downside to it now is I don't have as much power in my Speed and Electric Shield to find a better use for them and to try and use them more efficiently. That's my 'build' that seems most essential to me, but makes me feel limited in my other skills and stats and makes me feel like I can't play Volt to the best of his abilities. If I try and move one point, I have 8 spots to choose from:

Power Max: x4

Overload: x2

Mod Slot: x1

Speed: x1 (Lose ability)

If you don't think I put his 30/45 upgrades right, do you have another build you think would be better? :)

I do think there's a better way to address putting your points into your frame, but I think as far as the two methods we've had so far, the ability to upgrade everything was the better choice. Does anyone have any other thoughts on a good way to implement this?

[FreshJB2]

@Fresh

Most of the low level powers are geared towards one enemy. I've mainly played as Volt and having Overload is almost essential when we're being overrun. Downside to it before was that it cost 100 energy, so I had to ration out my energy to make sure I could get that back in case we got into another sticky situation. Maxing that skill uses 14 points already, and getting all the Power Maxes cost me another 14. I only have 2 more points (1 to get my speed ability unlocked and the other for my 10th modslot) to use to branch out and try other things in unless I want to respec. Downside to it now is I don't have as much power in my Speed and Electric Shield to find a better use for them and to try and use them more efficiently. That's my 'build' that seems most essential to me, but makes me feel limited in my other skills and stats and makes me feel like I can't play Volt to the best of his abilities. If I try and move one point, I have 8 spots to choose from:

Power Max: x4

Overload: x2

Mod Slot: x1

Speed: x1 (Lose ability)

If you don't think I put his 30/45 upgrades right, do you have another build you think would be better? :)

I do think there's a better way to address putting your points into your frame, but I think as far as the two methods we've had so far, the ability to upgrade everything was the better choice. Does anyone have any other thoughts on a good way to implement this?

I agree with you on this bud. The volt build seems to suffer the most from this new change. i did everything you did except i don't have speed. The point i was trying to make earlier, is that while overload is neccessary for solo play, it is not that way for groups. For example, if there is a Loki in said group, decoy will distract every enemy pretty much and there is not a build for loki that would not include this power. Trinity and excalibur both work the same way (you don't need their fourth power).

Edited January 30, 2013 by FreshJB2

[Elcorazon]

thats not 10 slots its 9 slots

[Kobalt]

I dunno what everyone is complaining about at all! I personally love the changes. The forums are filled with posts about people reviewing a frame, in which they usually question the usefulness of one or more skills. With the new system...Not only can they actually balance the frames, but they also allow you to trade off the skills you were wasting points on before. I've gained FAR more than i've lost in the exchange. I increased my survivability, power max and gained additional mod slots to play with...All at the cost of skills I thought were completely vestigial in the first place. As for unwanted spending, I think they are pretty good about that. It doesn't happen too often, as a matter of fact among the three of my frames I only had to spend one unwanted point on my Mag.

My advice is simple...

1. Choose your skills first and get them while spending as little as possible! [Not just which, but exactly how many points you need in a skill to make it worthwhile]

2. Take a quick run through of a low level area! [Get a feel for what your frame is lacking]

3. Go back and assess your paths! [Figure out where you would like your end stats to be and what you can leverage to get there]

4. Mod slots are more valuable than a lot of your nodes over time, use mod slots to compensate for hard to reach stats that cost you a lot of points! [You can find a list of mods here: https://forums.warfr...-20130121-1430/ ...Chances are that power max you spent 5 points to get to could probably be out done by a mod slot that takes 1 point to reach]

5. Realize that these stats are not a permanent choice and that there is too much money in this game/not enough places to spend it in. This makes the respec funtionally have an actual purpose and gives you someing to spend the billion creds you've been holding onto since you figured out what you want at level 15 of your first frame!

I hope it helps someone out there and I hope the system stays exactly like it is!

Edited January 30, 2013 by Kobalt

[Elcorazon]

ouch....rhino haw 9 slots but excalibur haw 11 slots

[Mak_Gohae]

I dunno i just got Mod slot crazy and pick the couple of abilities i really use and ignore the rest.

Buh bye tele switch for Loki and Speed for Volt, and i dont know how different this is going for be for a lot of people.

[Pr1nce]

I already thought it was customized enough. And if you wanted players to customize better and not all pick the same thing why not organize it better.Like have the center point. Then have a tree that focuses on straight up health. Like 5 points of health in a row. Then another with shield capacity. Then another with say Ability one and Ability 2, 3, and 4 would have their own respectivly. What I'm trying to say is. I don't think you should force people to get _____ to get _____If you wanted customized stats simply give us essentially stat points. And you can still raise the cap that way. I might invest all my points into health, wheras you might focus on your powers and mod slots.Obviously putting 50 mod slots shouldn't be allowed though so make it so you just get a mod slot every 5 levels or so. Same with abilities you shouldn't be able to have level 50 of Overcharge so just put a cap on it. A cap of 5. Or something. Most people would balance it out their own way. Like I don't really like electric shield I almost never used it when I was playing my volt. I could simply take cover instead. So if given the option of only having one level of Electric shield and invest those 4 points into something else I would. I only got the latter levels of it to get mod slots. So yeah.

I agree on the specialization. But forcing me to take on other skills just to get to the next point doesn't work that well.

Agreed. +1

Lol.. and I spent all my points clicking randomly thinking I could get all upgrades on my frames.. ^^" A little hope in me thinking that, maybe the level caps won't increase but you'll still get points when you kinda "level up". =p Bummer...

Guess now i have to respec, blow a large whole in my credit bank and sit down for an hour or so thinking bout it. As stated by DiaDia32 & ian_quia2, I think its better to arrange it in a way that makes it easier for users to pick what they want. Probably something like, Abilities 1, 2, 3, 4 & mod slots all in a column of their own. Forcing players to get a skill upgrade/mod slot, you have to go through this particular skill/mod slot makes me feel like I'm wasting points since it is now limited. i think specialization for frames should be this way. As of right now, I'm having mixed feelings about the the whole thing. The rest of the patch updates are great though.

On the other hand, a sudden thought about specialization. What if 1 guy spend all his points on mods putting health and shields (if there were no prerequisites). He may go around rampaging with a gorgon and the rest of the players in the game would be like,

I guess if specialization is to be made permanent, gonna need a lot of thinking to do.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Pr1nce

[neKroMancer]

I think DE will have to make a lot of adjustment to all the skill trees. ATM, it is not clear what aspect each branch represent since everything spread all over the tree.

[KranDeLoy]

Personally in regards to power I would like to have my Volt with 0 Speed, 1 Shock, Max Overload and 2 Electric Shield. That I absolutely must have 3 shock to get to nearly half my of volt tree is a pain in the &#!. The only time I ever used shock once I hit 16 with Volt was on the Grineer Shieldbearers just to break them from cover so I could put a couple Bolto shots in their brains.

Also Shields being 50 per pip whereas health was on 25 per pip and armor not being an option at all outside of mods makes me find those health pips really discouraging. If the Health pips were 25 Health and +5% armor then it would be a worthy alternative to 50 Shields.

Edit: I should add that I enjoy all the powers available to the Volt, had or have at some point. Each is useful in it's own ways, but if I had to choose more shields or having <200 energy then I would rather sacrifice Speed.

Implementing minium affinity levels to unlock certain powers such as Overload would also make loads of sense in the context of how the player gets them. So Overload would have to have a minimum affinity level of 16 before putting points into it as per this gent's suggestions. Which would be excellent.

I already thought it was customized enough. And if you wanted players to customize better and not all pick the same thing why not organize it better.

Like have the center point. Then have a tree that focuses on straight up health. Like 5 points of health in a row. Then another with shield capacity. Then another with say Ability one and Ability 2, 3, and 4 would have their own respectivly. What I'm trying to say is. I don't think you should force people to get _____ to get _____

If you wanted customized stats simply give us essentially stat points. And you can still raise the cap that way. I might invest all my points into health, wheras you might focus on your powers and mod slots.

Obviously putting 50 mod slots shouldn't be allowed though so make it so you just get a mod slot every 5 levels or so. Same with abilities you shouldn't be able to have level 50 of Overcharge so just put a cap on it. A cap of 5. Or something. Most people would balance it out their own way. Like I don't really like electric shield I almost never used it when I was playing my volt. I could simply take cover instead. So if given the option of only having one level of Electric shield and invest those 4 points into something else I would. I only got the latter levels of it to get mod slots. So yeah.

Edited January 30, 2013 by KranDeLoy

[RabidWhippet]

I love the changes and think that the more customization the better. Hard choices are good, they give meaning to your build and allow for unique playstyles.

If anything, Id like to see the skill trees expanded further, with more hard choices. Also it would be cool if each frame had 2 or 3 passive nodes, that sort of "changed the rules" but would require significant investment to attain such that you can only have 1 maybe 2 of them, but they would be at the end of a long chain. Path of Exile is a good example of this.

Something like "sprining speed is doubled, but depletes your shield" so if you choose to take this node, you would have default double sprint speed, but sprinting would always consume shields, but of you build your character to have high shields and shield regen,m this could work.

Another could be "pistols do double damage, but you cannot equip a primary weapon"

sort of very specializing nodes that really individualize a build, that come with great benefit/sacrifice

"double your max shield and shield regen, but you have 1hp" - things like this.

[Milhouse]

I think DE will have to make a lot of adjustment to all the skill trees. ATM, it is not clear what aspect each branch represent since everything spread all over the tree.

I second this. Openness is cool, but maybe a bit more clarity would be nice.

[Pr1nce]

Another thing about specialization is that, I think people who solo alot may suffer a little. Eventhough some skills that are believed to be not so useful, doesn't hurt to have them (or may even get you out of a pinch sometimes).

It gets kinda frustrating now that when I die soloing a mission, I start to think its the problem with my build and I don't have unlimited 60000 credits. And even if I do, I'll get annoyed respec-ing every single upgrades again to a frame when I only wish I could just shift 4 or 5 points to other upgrades.

Before that, when everything was maxed out, and when I die, at least I know that I am not playing smart enough or I did not use the right tactics and so I jump right back in the game to try again... which is fun.

With this new specialization thing, its making things complicated and kinda make me think twice about going on solo. I can't really play the game the way I want as well as sometimes midway in the game, I like slicing ppl up, so I use melee alot (not using pwrs - melee killing feels more exquisite don't cha think? ;) but I realize my frame is kinda wobbly as I focus too much on other upgrades. So I have to run back and let my shield recharge or find more life orbs when I took too many hits. And so I have to stick with a single play style if I want to survive (kinda stopped me from experimenting things in the game). Its a little difficult for me to enjoy the game now although there are new stuffs like wall running and so on.

"Yes, yes. I know, its a coop game. You are suppose to play it with other ppl." Well, for me, I'm still having issues with MM and its still not resolved for me in update 6. So yeah, I solo a lot.

*sigh* After a long day's work, I just wanna come home, play some Warframe with a decked out frame and feel like a total badass. Not come home and think whether would I survive playing this particular mission and worry about my build.

[Vilmalith]

All I want to know, can a dev clarify if ultimates were nerfed or are currently bugged? Going from lvl 1 to lvl 3 in them isn't increasing range and only increasing dmg a tiny bit (mag's ultimate for instance lvl 1 = 200dmg, lvl 3 = 220dmg and no range difference). Mag's is probably a bad choice as an example since it was extremely OP before. But it's the same deal for Excalibur's and others I have tried so far with Update 6.