Call Off Units/stealth Recovery

[sir_deadlock]

I think it might work if when an enemy goes to a security panel and alerts the ship/complex of your presence,

after we've slaughtered the room we could press X on the body of the "knocked out" enemy which triggered the alarm

and then drag it to a security console and call off the alert with palm recognition,

thereby renewing our ability to back stab while stealthing.

Then of course there'd be an animation for killing the unit... or like the hostage maps, there could be a risk of it running away if we don't.

 

 Or, if a more gory alternative is allowed, just cut off it's hand.

But my point is that I'd like a way to turn off the alarms and be able to stealth kill again.

[Shion963]

Or like what the devs mentioned in the livestreams, gives us the ability to hack a terminal to start a "all clear" signal, and have enemy alertness slowly cooldown.

[EclecticDragon]

I personally find the idea of stealth recovery to be sort of silly. I mean you can't call off the cops after 911 been called. What I would like to see is more levels of awareness out of the enemies, like one where enemies don't know where you located but are activly looking for where you might be but aren't taking cover and allows you to back stab.

[sir_deadlock]

I personally find the idea of stealth recovery to be sort of silly. I mean you can't call off the cops after 911 been called. What I would like to see is more levels of awareness out of the enemies, like one where enemies don't know where you located but are activly looking for where you might be but aren't taking cover and allows you to back stab.

If they get notification from the reporting officer "false alarm, everything's fine" or "I took care of it, go about your business" then yeah, they do stop looking for you.

Also, I like your idea too!

Like when they stall behind corners looking around said corner, if that'd open up a big defense weakness and we could back stab there.

[sir_deadlock]

At least do me a countdown timer or maybe something like the star system in grand theft type games.

[EclecticDragon]

If they get notification from the reporting officer "false alarm, everything's fine" or "I took care of it, go about your business" then yeah, they do stop looking for you.

 

 

Now that would make some sense that say a Grineer Comander/ Corpus Tech could deactivate the alarm so say having the player grab an ID to allow them to hack the security back into none alert state, but even then enemies for to just go "Oh I guess there is nothing to worry about" when you deactivate the alarm Rather then still keeping there wits about them for a little I would be better in my book.

[RegularGamer]

Or maybe something like the star system in grand theft type games.

 

This sounds ridiculous, but at the same time kind of interesting.

I dunno.

[Liminal]

I'd like some more interaction with consoles and a friendlier stealth system, so I agree.

 

As long as it's not "These UNATCO guys know all the tricks... oh wait, false alarm, it was probably a cat".

[sir_deadlock]

Or maybe the classic system of tiny alert marks over enemies heads when you target them.

Perhaps a system where if you stay stealthed in the proximity of an enemy long enough it counts down to being able to stealth attack them.

[Dr.KennethNoiswater]

If they get notification from the reporting officer "false alarm, everything's fine" or "I took care of it, go about your business" then yeah, they do stop looking for you.

Also, I like your idea too!

Like when they stall behind corners looking around said corner, if that'd open up a big defense weakness and we could back stab there.

I could understand maybe one "false alarm" but at what point does it become an ezmode for stealth and still inherently ridiculous? 2 false alarms? 5 false alarms?

 

 

 

If you were grineer captain, would you believe 5 false alarms...?

[liavalenth]

I could understand maybe one "false alarm" but at what point does it become an ezmode for stealth and still inherently ridiculous? 2 false alarms? 5 false alarms?

Most, if not all, stealth games have a cool down on enemy awareness. This is because failing forever for a wrong move is not fun. No, it is not realistic, but it is an acceptable break from reality in order to improve the fun of the game.

Realism in a game should exist to improve the experience, really all elements in a game should exist to improve the experience. If it detracts from the experience it should not be in the game. Unfortunately, there are therefore only two real ways to do stealth - either automatically lose the mission when an alarm is triggered or make it so you can return enemies to an not alerted state.

[Dr.KennethNoiswater]

Most, if not all, stealth games have a cool down on enemy awareness. This is because failing forever for a wrong move is not fun. No, it is not realistic, but it is an acceptable break from reality in order to improve the fun of the game.

Realism in a game should exist to improve the experience, really all elements in a game should exist to improve the experience. If it detracts from the experience it should not be in the game. Unfortunately, there are therefore only two real ways to do stealth - either automatically lose the mission when an alarm is triggered or make it so you can return enemies to an not alerted state.

I understand that reasoning in stealth games as you said, alas that does not apply to warframe as it is a co-op action shooter with an emphasis on hoards and destruction.

 

Now before you say, "But the devs have stated that they want stealth to be a viable option/alternative." please understand I've been in these threads before and I will address this preemptively.

 

As I stated before we all know the action oriented and fast paced focus warframe has. Applying the stealth game logic where you must/should reach point B undetected is silly in itself as DE wants to grant you the SECONDARY play style of stealth IF you so choose. Currently this is hindered as there are zero reasons or incentives to play stealth runs other than personal goals or the urge to simply achieve said stealth run, and this is where we run into the problem.

 

If incentive is added to complete missions stealthily it must be equal or greater to the reward for finishing a standard hack&slash/run&gun to have any draw. If it is equal that's fine but this is complicated by the fact that kills are the main source of experience and level achievement in this game and alas, stealth runs grant little in the way of kills in comparison.

 

If the reward for stealth is greater than the standard, then stealth has just become the "right way to play" and the addition of "false alarms" has just made it entirely too easy to achieve. However if they do not give an alarm reset, then you could argue a greater reward would be acceptable as it would be genuinely difficult to achieve and relatively time consuming a process.

 

Considering the fact that (barring mobile/stationary defense, and boss fights as that wouldn't make sense to stealth run) missions can be run in 3-8(?) minutes if done quickly, you are not blocking progress by failing a stealth run as you simply open the slaughterhouse doors and get to extraction as currently intended. Afterwards you can attempt another stealth run on any planet/mission you choose.

 

 

 

I will however, if you would care to lend an ear make a suggestion or two about things that could work.

 

 

If in the case of digging equipment or reactor sabotage, an interaction only available while the ship is oblivious to your presence could be added to each which allows for a delayed destruction (ala remote detonation or some other means) once extraction is reached. This would allow simultaneous stealth/standard immersion while not disrupting either style due to the scripted mission events of the opposing.

 

Perhaps as an agreeable mission reward for stealth completion is that they could give you frame and weapon experience based on a multiple of how many credits you looted during your stealth run. They would have to test to find an acceptable multiplier obviously. Another stealth completion reward I wouldn't be opposed to is simply double the amount of materials you managed to gather while playing.

 

In my opinion these would both work because frankly the reward for stealth and the experience/loot awarded is just not equal to how difficult and time consuming it is to do. This is due to the avoidance of killing which is a major contributor to credits/materials earned, though if you are only looting from containers a simple and modest multiplier of some or all loot seems fair and nothing is lost upon alerting the enemy, you simply retain what you have, finish the mission, and try again.

 

I hope that was clear as I assure you I am not simply arguing to argue as I was accused of doing last time, I merely would like stealth to be a viable and rewarding addition, not just a stealth game clone or an "oops I messed up, lets pretend the enemy is simply too dumb to notice I'm here after the third false alarm..." There are other games for both those things.

 

 

 

edit: another thought just occured to me, they could also give an end mission reward roll similar to defense or a login bonus for Uncommon-rare mods upon completion of an undetected run. This would not only promote stealth but it would not be overly farm-able due to the inherent difficulty of doing these stealth runs.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Dr.KennethNoiswater

[arch111]

Stealth should be,

A) a way to play any mission

B) a goal and reward only attainable by stealth and none detection.

To counter the killing loot exp, the goal of the shadow ninja

is a weapons cash, void keys, bps etc or a assanination target.

If detected, the mission changes. If detected before the goal is reached, , the prize is lost.

This would mean the kills are not the motivation, the payoff for stealth is way higher.

Would suit one player, or a team.

A way to limit enemy awarenes would be to bind it to sections.

Once you leave a area on high alert, the next would be neutral.

But there are some good ideas to that.

A concequence for stealth play could be alternate areas revealed, bonus maps like alerts as rewards.

What do you think?

[sir_deadlock]

I'm hearing that it would be difficult if not illogical to make stealth a goal in the multiplayer mode... so why not make it an option for solo missions?

 

And yeah, 5 false alarms would obviously be way too suspicious in real life.

But this is a game.

Are you honestly going to tell me that it's realistic to kill the same person 100 times and they're still not actually dead?

That's farming a boss mission for you.

 If it were realistic, you'd only be able to run boss missions once, because after that they'd be dead.

 

 We're not aiming for realism, we're aiming for fun!

If realism happens along the way, then that's a good thing.

 

I think a multiplier on stealth kills would be good. Nothing too major, just like a 1.5X affinity boost on stealth kills.

Such a small boost to affinity would downplay the importance of stealth, but would be a boon to people who want it. Then you could go either way and still be happy. Massacre quickly or integrate slower stealth options.

[sir_deadlock]

OH!

Imagine that in order to deactivate alarms and restore stealth, you'd have to first undo lockdown, like usual, but then you could open the controls again and go through like 3 hacking screens consecutively or one big one with an increased timer and that would turn off alarms.

Edited July 24, 2013 by sir_deadlock

[arch111]

OH!

Imagine that in order to deactivate alarms and restore stealth, you'd have to first undo lockdown, like usual, but then you could open the controls again and go through like 3 hacking screens consecutively or one big one with an increased timer and that would turn off alarms.

I really like this idea. Maby even a new goal from Lotus, hack theese terminals.

As a suggestion to motivate undetection in a hack/shooter,

say there are "checkpoints" as you progress. For each point reached you get some reward,

or advantage. Could be antthing from xp to less guards.

This way you are rewarded for the extra effort.

It would not affect the game, but would be there as an incentive.

new players might find this a good thing too.

[Redthirst]

About false alarms. DE could add some ability to call the constant alarm yourself. But if you will stay invisible to enemis, they will just belive that alarm system is broken and will disable it for some time.

[sir_deadlock]

As much as there could be stealth levels and incentives; my main want is just a functioning stealth system.

 

Maybe calling off the alarms is too much to ask, but like I said earlier; I can't even sneak up on a grineer that has their attention focused on looking around a corner?

 

Even in real life if I follow somebody long enough while being invisible they'll stop being suspicious of the nothing that is behind them even while they've got the focus of a hawk looking for me.

A proximity countdown or weak points when the enemy lets their guard down would be realistic.

[Paradoxbomb]

I believe that one random console on the map should appear on your map if your cover is blown. If you find and hack this console, you're taken off the ship's scanners, and enemies return to unalerted state. Hacking any old console would make it a little too easy to stay in stealth mode.

[sir_deadlock]

I believe that one random console on the map should appear on your map if your cover is blown. If you find and hack this console, you're taken off the ship's scanners, and enemies return to unalerted state. Hacking any old console would make it a little too easy to stay in stealth mode.

A random one, aye? That'd be like hacking a mainframe I guess. A redundancy system on the alarm so that the person who turned it on couldn't be the one to turn it off. Much safer if you ask me.