Ash's Old Idle Stance, A Misunderstanding

[Valafor]

Most people instantly jumped on Ash's idle stance (myself included) but the truth is the pose wasn't really meant for day to day combat that we usually do, but for the dojo.One common misconception is that Nyx's idle stand and Ash's were mixed up, but that isn't true. The truth is Ash's pose is an attempt to emulate the shinobi, which makes sense since Ash is the most ninja of the space ninjas.

It is typical for a shinobi to be portrayed as standing calm and relax, with his feet in a manner similar to Ash before the change, with his arms crossed. And what do you know, in the dojo, Ash is exactly that. he stands calm and collective, with his arms crossed, and quite frankly looks like a badass. however, when you apply a gun to this pose, it simply doesn't look right. the problem with Ash's pose was that he was that the cool and calm shinobi look doesn't work with a gun, and isn't battle ready at all. his old pose was about as effective as doing push ups in a jumping jack position.

My opinion is this, keep the current pose for missions and combat, but in the dojo, switch back to the old one. The old one was superior in the dojo, while the new one simply feels at home in the battlefield.

Edited August 10, 2013 by KaPow_Best_Demolitions

[Dreykan]

^this

[EclipsedHusky]

it did look cool with the kunai types in his hands

[Ariarch]

The loadout screen didn't look great though.

[MylesShort]

I really REALLY liked Ash's new idle.
I hate Ash's new NEW idle.

[Metalarcher]

Yeah, I liked the old new idle as well, but we'll see what happens I suppose.

[Numot]

If they wanted to go full shinobi, they needed to give him a damn scarf. My first reaction was "needs holo scarf". You can't just half-&#! these things.

[Flackenstien]

If they wanted to go full shinobi, they needed to give him a damn scarf. My first reaction was "needs holo scarf". You can't just half-&#! these things.

Everyone will be able to have scarves at some point.

[MylesShort]

Everyone will be able to have scarves at some point.

Yep, cloth animations are being worked on as we speak, and scarves are more or less confirmed by geoff in almost every livestream.

[Numot]

Yep, cloth animations are being worked on as we speak, and scarves are more or less confirmed by geoff in almost every livestream.

Sugoi

[rSmoothiE]

Here's a quick glance at the beauty this stance had. i believe it should be a worthy stance to slect players.

if not that, i want it anyway. make it optional. game/and or dojo.

[rSmoothiE]

Here's a quick glance at the beauty this stance had. i believe it should be a worthy stance to select players.

if not that, i want it anyway. make it optional. game/and or dojo.

http://youtu.be/96VTXNJLHYI

[Tangerine]

Actually I prefer the new stance in missions as well.

 

 

Rhino's idle fits a bulky brawler. Chest forward, intimidating, little care for fluidity. It's a posture that's meant to give the illusion that the character is bigger than it really is, it's the same chest puffing that wild animals do to scare away other animals.

 

That does not suit Ash, who is meant to be more lithe and 'leaner'. While Loki has the hunched over trickster paradigm, Ash is comparable in that he is equally as stealthy but instead of being precarious, he's a more direct and composed character because his skillset is a swift, lethal kind. That's what his previous idle combined, both a lithe and lean figure but also composed, intimidating and -clean-. His physical stance imitated his given assassin architecture, not outwardly violent but -lethal- and -clean-.

 

Imagine doing a Bladestorm and coming back to that composed stance, straightened stance. It fits. 

 

Edited August 10, 2013 by Tangerine

[Tekkaman-Blade]

I too prefer the ninja stance

[Otaiken]

Copy pasta from other thread:

 

I really doubt ninjas stood like that. Weren't ninjas all about blending into the crowd and being stealthy? Well, first of all that kind of stance would completely and utterly screw your balance, melee combat especially is absolutely unthinkable in that kind of stance since you'd be knocked down by slight gust of wind.

 

Second of all it looks so goofy that you'd stand out like a sore thumb in a crowd. So... I don't know where you got this idea of that stance being "ninja stance" but it's utter bollocks.

 

Also, relaxed stance means feet at shoulder width NOT close together. Why is that? So should you get into trouble you can immediately slide one of your legs back and assume combat stance. This both puts some distance between you and enemy and puts you in default combat stance with one leg forward and one leg back over shoulder width apart. This provides maximum stability in combat. Standing like that with feet together screws with that completely, you can't really dodge easily and you would be extremelly easy to knock down or taken off balance. It's utter nonsense, impractical as hell and has nothing to do with ninjas.. period.

 

And having your arms crossed.... *sigh* really? Do I have to explain why that would be a baaad idea? It's okay in dojo but in combination with those legs close together it made Ash look more like a mummy than anything else.

 

Only way this kind of stance would work is if one of the legs was facing sideways (at 90 angle to the forward leg). I think that is actually what you are reffering to as a ninja stance. Legs close together but one facing forward and one facing sideways. In this stance one of your shoulders is more forward, your torso turned slighty so you minimize surface area (one handed styles usually have you turn your torso so you have less surface area to be hit by enemy). This stance also makes it easier to turn around, so it looks kinda acrobatic.

 

Ash's old stance is neither of those things though and is goofy, impractical and immersion breaking. Can we now please stop calling that abomination ninja stance?

Edited August 10, 2013 by LocoWithGun

[Fundance]

omfg if I can have a scarf like the one in the PS2 game 'shinobi' I will flip tables of happiness.

 

Also, the point stance is indeed a classic ninja thing. Perhaps not the most historically accurate, but one that's heavily grounded in ninja mythology, ESPECIALLY concerning the shinobi.

 

and speaking of Shinobi (and said PS2 game) this stance was taken by the original futuristic ninja Hotsuma. Which was in itself a reference to other ninjas from other media who would take a similar stance.

 

 

Videogame ninjas do this a lot. It's a form of stylisation and I'm honestly quite ashamed that so many in the warframe community didn't recognise this iconic stance. And you call yourselves ninjas?

Edited August 10, 2013 by Fundance

[Valafor]

Now Ash with kunai style weapons look like he is doing gangnam Style. Someone please make a video of this.

[Otaiken]

snip

 

Yeah.. except that looks absolutely nothing like the old Ash's stance. He has legs right next to each other and completely parallel to each other. Nothing like the picture.. subtle differences yes, but they have huge impact. To make this stance work you need at least one of the legs facing somewhat sideways and preferably a little back.

 

Btw since we're talking video games, this stance isn't just iconic ninja stance. It's also very much the "anime female knight stance", you know the one I mean right? And that's why some people will consider it looking very feminine. 

Edited August 10, 2013 by LocoWithGun

[Doforcash]

me too...im so sorry Ash, u will alway be my favorite T^T

 

 

P.S: u too Frost and vauban :D

Edited August 10, 2013 by Doforcash

[Fundance]

Yeah.. except that looks absolutely nothing like the old Ash's stance. He has legs right next to each other and completely parallel to each other. Nothing like the picture.. subtle differences yes, but they have huge impact. To make this stance work you need at least one of the legs facing somewhat sideways and preferably a little back.

 

Btw since we're talking video games, this stance isn't just iconic ninja stance. It's also very much the "anime female knight stance", you know the one I mean right? And that's why some people will consider it looking very feminine. 

 

What, like this?

Regardless of whether they got it exactly right or not, this is the look they were going for. Feet could have been adjusted, yes, but that tall straight pose is a pretty standard thing for videogame ninjas.

Edited August 10, 2013 by Fundance

[Otaiken]

Yeah, that's more like it... that image looks almost as goofy and impractical as Ash's old stance. It may be iconic for all I care... it still makes zero sense, especially for someone who does melee combat... that guy would get knocked down immediately and beaten to death in first two minutes. Well.. at least his legs are not so close together.. though its hard to tell from this angle.

 

Though it may look especially goofy to just me.. since I've actually done fencing and standing like that is a death wish. It also doesn't look particularly relaxed... more like you're holding something in.

 

You're telling me about standart ninja stance yet you provide two images... and the stance is completely different in both. The first one is just baaad. The second one I could see being viable (not irl mind you), one leg sideways and back means you can trun around extremelly quickly. So it leds itself to acrobatic moves like turning around while drawing your sword or something (very video game ninja like). But Ash's stance looked nothing like that... that is the problem..

Edited August 10, 2013 by LocoWithGun

[Shamse]

They can very easily fix this by allowing people to turn off the poses and just switch back to their original stoic stances. 

 

Or even better, allow them to choose what type of idle stance they would prefer. I SERIOUSLY cannot stand Volt's air-DJ, it just looks nothing like him. This Corpus-destroying scout-type is not what comes off of that whiteboy dance...

[Fundance]

Yeah, that's more like it... that image looks almost as goofy and impractical as Ash's old stance. It may be iconic for all I care... it still makes zero sense, especially for someone who does melee combat... that guy would get knocked down immediately and beaten to death in first two minutes. Wel.. at least his legs are not so close togehter.. though its hard to tell from this angle.

 

Though it may look especially goofy to just me.. since I've actually done fencing and standing like that is a death wish. It also doesn't look particularly relaxed... more like you're holding something in.

 

It looks strange, but that's the point. Ninjas in games are portrayed as being almost magical, and incorporating a lot of intimidation and confusion into their combat. Unecessary posing, flourishes, tricks and acrobatics are a standard here. It's also impractical in a combat situation to run across walls, front-flip towards an enemy, throw kunai in place of using a gun, or any other silly thing ninjas in games and anime do.

 

Most likely that stance is meant to intimidate and put the enemy off guard, so that when they go in to attack, they realise it's actually a decoy and the ninja himself is somewhere behind them, or something to that effect.

 

Leave logical thought at the door. You'll have a lot more fun with fantasy if you embrace the concepts it presents you with.

Edited August 10, 2013 by Fundance

[Tangerine]

Yeah, that's more like it... that image looks almost as goofy and impractical as Ash's old stance. It may be iconic for all I care... it still makes zero sense, especially for someone who does melee combat... that guy would get knocked down immediately and beaten to death in first two minutes. Wel.. at least his legs are not so close togehter.. though its hard to tell from this angle.

 

Though it may look especially goofy to just me.. since I've actually done fencing and standing like that is a death wish. It also doesn't look particularly relaxed... more like you're holding something in.

I don't like all this stuff about what would happen irl.

 

What irl ninjas were like, how to enter combat quickly, blending in a crowd etc. etc.

 

It's a video game, forget that junk. The biggest factor as to why you don't like it simply because you don't like it, not because it clashes with real world physics or rules.

[Otaiken]

Yeah... the point is that the acrobatic stuff ninjas do would be impossible to do from the stance in the first image... just couldn't be done. You can't even animate that properly and fluidly... it will just look weird. I'm talking it's unviable WITHIN the world's own rules. the second image's stance would work (not irl) but it would certainly be good for a basic stance for someone who's going to do crazy acrobatic stuff.

 

Also, it doesn't look intimidating at all... sorry but it doesn't.

 

Last of all there's difference between suspension of disbelief and something that just looks blatantly weird. I mean, it's a game right? Anything could happen... well, what if all of a sudden during Grineer mission bunch of medieval knight dudes showed up. Would certainly break your immersion even though it could somewhat be justified by the game, time tear or something like that... nevertheless it would still be weird.

 

Also, vido game ninja stance aside... Ash's stance just looked weird. Either it was badly done or something else but it was weird and it got removed. End of story.

Edited August 10, 2013 by LocoWithGun