[Being forced to use outdated or bottom-tier RNG equipment in new high level game modes is not "difficulty"]

fair enough, i lost track of all of that because this thread has multiple pages and like 8 different threads of thought

 

[Being forced to use outdated or bottom-tier RNG equipment in new high level game modes is not "difficulty"]

7 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Sadly, this is actually worse than you'd think. This isn't the userbase that DE are left with. The userbase has steadily expanded over the years to reach a wider group of people. The same average numbers are still in game at any one time, but now they have the broader reach from years of expansion and advertising.

So what you have now is a more realistic look at the playerbase of gaming across the board, and population in general, where the average most stupid and average loudest come together to make their views known the most vehemently, while everyone that's in the middle or is just doing their own thing in a way they enjoy is now masked or silenced by the extremes.

In getting broader and more accessible, the game has hit the point where the players are no longer... filtered... by seeking out something different. By becoming mainstream and recognisable, it's now been opened to all that can be interested.

So DE have brought this kind of ridiculous nature onto themselves because of their own success ^^

i feel this attitude is incredibly elitist. players are not stupid or loud for simply voicing their disagreement towards specific design decisions. nor can i understand the idea that "everyone in the middle" are being silenced. "everyone in the middle" are most likely enjoying the loot they get from running missions with rewards.

this is a live service game. most players play because they obtain rewards from missions. the gameplay loop is excellent, partly because of how the base gameplay is with movement and combat mechanics, but also because loadouts are highly customizable. with this gameplay loop, it makes the act of running missions more rewarding and enticing, especially when said missions offer more than your average starchart mission.

this is also an RPG. you know how players enjoyed struggling in the early levels only to obtain the power to slay deities in the later stages of the game? such is the same thing in even Warframe. tenno obtain strength, experience, and inventory to match and annihilate what caused them struggle early. well, gamemodes that revert the power they had spent many hours getting to tend to be less popular amongst even the average player.

knowing these things, you can understand why people may hold reluctance or irritation towards gamemodes that seek to remove agency from players who spent so long obtaining said agency? and perhaps why players may not be "stupid or loud" for complaining about it on the forums?

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

edit: So if WF is P2W, then Bob just payed for you to win.

nobody said warframe was pay to win at all. that was never his point.

[Being forced to use outdated or bottom-tier RNG equipment in new high level game modes is not "difficulty"]

4 hours ago, BansheeAndZephyrMarried said:

I do genuinely pity DE that this is the playerbase they're left with.

Not that much since this is still something they inflicted upon themselves, over many years and many steps. But I still pity them. 

what do you mean, pity? the gameplay loop and reward structure is literally why people play games such as warframe. I do not see people playing regular star chart non-alert exterminates without some specific goal in mind. which isn't weird or something lamentable, it is simply how it is. warframe has a large amount of possible loadouts for a large amount of personal tastes. forcing them for highest tier stuff just sucks and nobody likes it. hence: 8 pages of this thread (so far!)

[Being forced to use outdated or bottom-tier RNG equipment in new high level game modes is not "difficulty"]

12 minutes ago, schilds said:

Ok, I'm going to repeat myself one more time. This Is You.

I, and others, are not you.

This is how *you* work. This is what *you* do. This is what goes on in *your* head. *Your* head does not sit on *every* neck.

true, however you do not speak for everyone else either. now that everyone's opinion is fully canceled out, everyone can go home because there is literally nothing to discuss anymore.

@Traumtulpe is not incorrect in his assertion. there is a reason this is called a "looter shooter" and not just a "shooter". now sure, there are players that play specific missions for varying purposes, but they are the minority. it would be akin to valve developing half life just to cater to the frankly insane speedrunning community. they simply don't do that.

[Being forced to use outdated or bottom-tier RNG equipment in new high level game modes is not "difficulty"]

1 hour ago, Traumtulpe said:

Because b) this is just a plat check. You don't even have to use 2/3 of the weapons, just "own them so you can equip them". The whole thing is just "Did you spend thousands of plat on our game, for weapons slots and to collect all those obsolete crappy weapons? Good boy, here's your free points!" Literally pay to win.

i'm not gonna go full conspiracy mode, but this definitely makes the most sense as far as justification is concerned. just because I can eat the cost of forma-ing and inventory slots through my time invested, it doesn't mean I am blind to how this game isn't quite as forgiving to those who can't make those investments.

i think the easiest solution is to buff a lot of the older frames and weapons so that they're at least not such a damn drag to play. giving us more options to appreciate all the weapons and frames more often than just MR fodder. i feel like encouraging the playerbase to be excited for this event via buffs to most underutilized equipment is not only great for player morale but also for DE's money. but that's just me I guess.

[Being forced to use outdated or bottom-tier RNG equipment in new high level game modes is not "difficulty"]

28 minutes ago, sly_squash said:

Incentivizing not forcing.  Well played, DE.

i disagree, only because i don't find that many of the weapons terribly engaging for my purposes. you can incentivize all you want, but plinking away at a heavily armored level 300 enemy with an 8 forma'd assault rifle does not fill me with glee. nor does the process to make an assault rifle have 8 formas in the first place.

i am the kind of guy who would definitely obtain a weapon/warframe with essential slots just for the purposes of this kind of venture, and I don't find myself doing that sort of thing very often because most of the weapons aren't that engaging to try.

willingness to engage in tedium is not a form of skill expression.

[Being forced to use outdated or bottom-tier RNG equipment in new high level game modes is not "difficulty"]

28 minutes ago, Shodian87 said:

Good thing you don't have to do it. 

encouraging players to play less of a game feels like a counterintuitive way of game design.

[Being forced to use outdated or bottom-tier RNG equipment in new high level game modes is not "difficulty"]

On 2024-02-27 at 9:37 PM, sly_squash said:

Considering less than a year after my post they're already doing the exact same thing as I had noted, I would indeed say my take has aged like fine wine and yours has aged like leftover turkey.

You lost.  I was right.  DE are continuing to incentivize maintaining a reasonably well-stocked arsenal.  You may not like this fact, but it was happening, it happened again, and it will likely continue to happen in the future.  It's your choice if you wanna get with the program or just cry about it.

 

a quick note: just because you knew it was happening (you're not the only one who can piece together patterns) doesn't mean said balancing path isn't obnoxious and silly and that we can't say it's obnoxious and silly on the forums

that being said, i myself almost never sell weapons because i simply buy more weapon/warframe slots with platinum instead of more cosmetics. but i'm probably in the minority. hence why people dislike being forced into a specific mindset and gameplay loop.

most games stop being games when you are forced into doing something you don't want to do.

[Nuke Builds Are Ruining Gameplay Enjoyment]

non-nuke builds are just fine, they simply serve a different purpose. attempting to take your single target DPS weapons into a public fissure mission intended for quickly opening relics and expecting yourself to not lag far behind is quite silly.

complaining about nuke frames is like complaining about loki not being an effective tank. rethink your approach.

[Console players shouldn't be able to be hosts]

So I guess the very concept of dedicated servers is just completely alien? That would solve many issues people have.

[Extermination bug again?]

Good to see that the persistent blaming of the players continues. There are multiple modes that are in dire need of either quality of life fixing or simply being fixed on a basic level. Reactant missions still have spawning issues, and it is blatantly apparent that exterminates also contain similar spawning issues. Instead, the community insists on blaming players instead of just pushing for fixes that are incredibly easy to implement.

The community needs to grow up.

[Late join to Void Fissure. Not enough reactant (out of player control). EZ Solution.]

It will never get fixed, because until a certain part of the playerbase stops asserting that lack of reactant spawning is a skill issue as opposed to an actual in-game bug, DE will never feel pressured to repair an obvious bug.

You should have seen the pushback when I brought this (Reactant issues) up years ago. It was completely baffling how hard people dig in their heels on this topic. Those players felt like they were supremely qualified to speak on the issue because they couldn't see past their own egos.

All I can say is to stop blaming the players and just fix it and be done with it.

  

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Hellsteeth30 said:

Pub life yo.

I needn't detail what usually happens in survivals, everybody going as far away from everybody else as possible.

For my part platforming is not a strong area of mine, plus the map design is distasteful.  So I end up lagging behind due to getting lost or platform fails, Kuva Fortress is especially bad for that.

So if it isn't defence I'm not pubbing it for relics.

I played an Axi pub defense yesterday, just to see if reactant was still broken. It was. Don't be fooled into thinking it's just exclusive to quicker gametypes.

[Limitations on Umbra Forma need to be lifted]

umbra forma should be purchasable. time gating it is frankly absurd. DE could definitely cash in on the min-maxers wanting everything (I know im half in that boat personally) and just put in the market for like 120 plat or something.

[Stop the powercreep, please.]

8 minutes ago, GruntBlender said:

I didn't say it would. You just said nerfs are bad, but it's all relative. Boosting base damage and nerfing mods can be a boost overall. A nerf to weapons with a bigger nerf to enemy health is a relative boost to weapons. So, how would you feel about gimping damage mods in favor of more base damage or lower enemy health?

All meta weapons are now stronger. Bad weapons also increase in damage, but not enough to care about to take over meta weapons.

[Stop the powercreep, please.]

3 minutes ago, GruntBlender said:

How would you feel if weapon damage was tripled but Serration was lowered to something like 20% to compensate?

I don't see how that promotes modding diversity.

[Stop the powercreep, please.]

Warframe is a power fantasy of Space Ninjas in Space™. A very large portion of the game would be very turned off from playing the game if you had to struggle to eliminate a level 1 grunt the same way you would struggle to kill level 150 Vay Hek.

Buff the trash tier weapons. Don't nerf anything.

[Master Thief should rotate to being Parazon]

On 2019-11-20 at 12:46 PM, Hobie-wan said:

-snip-

The reason I considered a major portion of your previous post to be rude is simply because you're asking me to put in far, far more thought than the developers themselves put into the game when adding content. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the game is good so far, but the major thing you're missing is that a LOT of content was developed over time rather than being instantly amazing. You're browbeating me and my suggestion because I didn't post a list of 300 contingencies to consider when adding a new, admittedly minor feature.

Yes, there is a baseline of effort required to add or adjust ANYTHING in this game. It doesn't mean when adding content you should be paralyzed from making changes. Its even better when 98% of the necessary resources to put my suggestion in the game are already present.

All this being said, I like @Educated_Beast's suggestion a lot and wouldn't be the least bit upset if it were implemented over my own personal suggestion.

[Master Thief should rotate to being Parazon]

42 minutes ago, Educated_Beast said:

Master thief should give the approximate location of dilrelect vaults (like when you get to hack a bounty supply crate that gives you general location of remaining crates), syndicate medallions, and other type searchable loot.  

I actually like that idea of giving it the ability to show on loot radar there being a special item nearby would be a good reason to take master thief. in this case special items would include stuff like ayatan sculptures, rare containers, syndicate medallions, and more.

[Master Thief should rotate to being Parazon]

4 minutes ago, Hobie-wan said:

Then there's creating a loot table for what could be in that locker and the percentages for those items as well as consideration for how useful those items are, if they throw the balance of things off where there's suddenly too much of thing X dropping. You need to create new artwork for the special locker or at least reuse the prompt from the Corpus moa cabinet hacks on the lockers. Or perhaps you reuse the effect on the rare chests? If the special lockers aren't obvious enough people will complain. Others will complain that the good loot is too rare and that the common stuff is useless and not worth the effort that went into finding and hacking the locker. Is it the same hack as a security panel? Will ciphers be allowed or not? Do these lockers hum like cashes or not? Will you disallow them on missions that already have caches so that people can't fail to get all 3 caches if they're snoozing on the X of 3 counter on the screen and think they got all 3 already?

That's just 10 seconds of off the top of my head thinking about it. As @peterc3 said, you don't really have a good idea of what's required.

you're thinking of a lot of extraneous, fringe information that has little to do with actually getting it going but rather minor details that are almost always figured out intuitively when developing. sorry that I have an idea with not a lot of guidelines to allow for maximum creativity in implementation. it ISN'T my job to literally design anything and everything imaginable for the developers.
-should it be detected by loot radar? (yes)

-should it use an effect similar to a cache? (yes)

-same hack as security panel? (come on)

-ciphers? (??????)

-Will you disallow them on missions that already have caches so that people can't fail to get all 3 caches if they're snoozing on the X of 3 counter on the screen and think they got all 3 already? (this sort of question is extremely pedantic to the point of rudeness)

Quote

-That's just 10 seconds of off the top of my head thinking about it. As @peterc3 said, you don't really have a good idea of what's required.

this sort of statement is like telling me that since I don't know why exactly Gordon Ramsey cooks so well, I don't deserve to eat.

[Dismemberment is pretty broken as a mechanic]

52 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

but y do u need 10m alloy plates?

the point is not for alloy plates, its for the multitude of drops obtainable from enemies, and to maximize that with loadouts that are built specifically for it and should be rewarding for properly building for it.

chopping bodies into quarters has been bugged due to enemy animations and other fringe factors including, but not limited to: lag, where you hit the enemy for the killshot, if the enemy was taking a status effect like shock or fire, explosive weapons that deal slash damage not bisecting either, and more. it's been bugged for years, but finally having a build specifically to cater to desecrate and STILL having issues, I finally was bothered enough to actually post something about it.

[Dismemberment is pretty broken as a mechanic]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

so u liked shooting a bombard with a tigris, just to see 10 torsos fall out of them?

you can get a maximum of 4 torso rolls for the sake of desecrate. as of right now, that's actually VERY rare to pull off. my point is that there's something that's been bugged and off with dismemberment and evisceration, even with weapons built for the sole purpose of chopping bodies into bits. and since nekros's desecrate is tied to running stuff to chop the bodies up, it's very hard to maximize the potential due to lack of consistency.

[Dismemberment is pretty broken as a mechanic]

When I bother to play Nekros, dismemberment and bisection works 50% of some of the time. I've ran multiple setups for maximizing desecrate, investing a LOT of time to try and get it working. 17 forma in 2 regular Kohms, well over 300 rolls of 4 kohm rivens to achieve a great set of rivens, multiple fully forma'd slash melees to try and maximize dismemberment, even running that amalgam ripkas mod that gimps melee right now doesn't accomplish the goal. Dismemberment is bugged and has been only partially consistent since as long as I can remember playing Warframe.

It would be nice if this mechanic can be given a good relook to try and make it feel more consistent.

[Master Thief should rotate to being Parazon]

On 2019-11-09 at 12:40 PM, peterc3 said:

You aren't just asking for the mod to be buffed. You are asking to add hacking prompts to lockers. Also, to add a new type of locker.

Let's be honest: you have no clue what would be required.

🙄

Quote

if masterthief.equipped = 1 then

{

generate.speciallocker = yes

speciallocker.spawn = medallion.spawn (footnote: medallion spawn is where syndicate medallions or caches spawn on tilesets)

lockers.hackable = yes

}

speciallocker.returnafterlooted = randomly assigned loot

there's some basic pseudo-code right there. as long as game code is not horrendously optimized it should be very possible to slide it in without much effort or even thought.

[Master Thief should rotate to being Parazon]

9 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Just take a mod and completely change what it does, while adding (relatively) new gameplay to otherwise "done" objects. You might as well ask for a new mod, because it wouldn't be any easier.

Master Thief doesn't deserve to be dumpster-tier just because so many other mods are dumpster-tier. I'm fully of the mindset that lots of mods should be updated and buffed to at least not be completely trash to even consider. (Half the mods in this game are completely meme-tier. Warm Coat, anyone?)

And let's be honest: upgrading these mods should be no harder than adjusting a few lines of code.

[Master Thief should rotate to being Parazon]

Let it allow you to open a hacking prompt to open a locker. And should become fully interactable with Master Key.

Also, Master thief should also give a random locker on the map instance a big payoff reward, to incentivize exploration instead of the usual blazing through a level.

Just some thoughts to buff a massively outdated mod that used to be a fun alternative to mindlessly going through the index or abusing the Secura Lecta.