Cytobel
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Posts posted by Cytobel
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I'm VERY sad to see that Garuda's claws are just a cosmetic item that merely interferes with aiming. I was somehow expecting to see them show up in her abilities FAR more than they do. ONE ability where she slaps something with them? NO "giant claw" weapon, or exalted weapon? NOTHING?
It just feels like a waste of the concept to me, that's all. Very much "Gore Lite", with half the blood and a quarter the satisfaction...
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23 hours ago, MechaKnight said:
I recall a reddit post which mentioned 2 glaring issues in Ember's kit: Fireball and Fire Blast do not scale with the range stat. This causes many Ember players to overspecialize in range stat without meaningful contribution to half her kit. I've been a strong advocate against limited kits which prioritizes only a fraction of a frame's potential. Some great progress can be made if all of Ember's abilities scaled with range--it would make the nerf feel less awkward.
So, I've got to point out that the range is the important aspect of WoF as far as Firequake builds were concerned. As such, cutting into the range of the skill for the sake of making new players feel relevant is inappropriate on several points.
First, focusing on new player experience directly at the cost of veteran's experience is blatantly stupid, as it offends both parties (particularly when extremely salty vets start attacking new players for decisions DE has outright blamed them for). Either reconstructing matchmaking in order to prevent brand new players from being thrown in with MR20+ players day 1 could help OR creating areas for high-level farming would. I recommend both measures, as any player who doesn't understand the movement system simply doesn't have a CHANCE of killing anything, should a veteran choose to slaughter.
Second, cutting into Ember's range utterly failed to promote any form of shift from the previous meta, aside from harming her mid/high-level utility. In fact, boosting range in place of an Augment (or 2 in my build) simply makes Ember FAR AND AWAY THE BEST LOW-LEVEL CLEAR IN GAME. Worse, the power buff over time actually rewards this behavior, and just replacing my 2 Augments with another Range mod and Primed Flow would leave Ember capable of EXACTLY THE SAME BEHAVIOR AS BEFORE. Simply, the nerf failed utterly to accomplish any benefit to the game.
Finally, this change sends a crystal-clear message to players: investing time into Warframe leads nowhere. When something takes this sort of hit, when a character suddenly loses this much playability in the endgame, and when a dev team is this disconnected from the mechanics of the game they made, then perhaps it's much better to just go somewhere else; play something else. In many ways I'm protesting this strongly because no part of this change to Ember is healthy to Warframe. Options to fix what's not working correctly abound. Make WoF line of sight if clearing through walls is a problem (it's not like I would've complained about that, the enemies that hurt are the ones that can see and shoot you). If low-level farming is hurting the game, then giving advanced players somewhere more efficient to farm would be a good plan. If new player inexperience is so harmful, then expanded starter content focused on movement and fast targeting would be helpful.
To be honest, I'm disgusted with this alteration, first for it's utter failure to achieve it's stated goals, and second for the reaction players of all experience levels are having to this. The most telling moment I've had since the Ember nerf was watching a MR6 (if I recall correctly) calling out a MR23 for running Ember in a Mobile Defense alert, asking something to the effect of "why run a 'Frame that's just objectively bad?” When that's how the NEW PLAYERS view a 'Frame (a 'Frame that they'd get EXCELLENT use out of in their mission range, I might add) then something went VERY wrong.
TL;DR: The rework of Ember either utterly failed in it's objectives or was never intended to do other than kill an endgame build. I object to both options, and cannot stress enough how much I hate seeing Ember mains shafted this harshly. As a Volt main, I REMEMBER how this feels...
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What I'm saying is that DEs been working slowly towards making each damage type have a niche, a general utility. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Electricity starts seeing strong utility in certain areas coming out soon.
To be honest, I'll just roll Radiation/Toxin if it's not an optimal choice, but I'm starting to see what I suspect is the beginning of a move toward Elements 2.0
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I have a weird suspicion: the coming Venus open-world may bring out Volt as a main player.
Look, we're talking about Robotics all over, and there are freezing conditions everywhere. Corpus being Corpus they will find a method of adding shields to things, which suggests potentially shields that resist Cold. That leaves Magnetic and Electric damage...
Anyone else feeling this?
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8 hours ago, Airwolfen said:
Because of the critical changes the atomos has pretty much almost the same DPS (about .2 difference, literally). And its not like you are only allowed to have the fire element on there. Throw corrosive on there and you will have a field day. Building crit is an option. one you do not HAVE to follow in order to make the weapon greater then its current form.
I'm looking at the actual numbers right now. As I now have my claws on the actual change I'm looking at things first hand. Turns out my Riven for my Atomos is +Damage, +Crit Damage, and +Fire Damage, so I'm revising things somewhat! Still, not too sure how I'll add in the last crit mod right yet. It looks as if I'll be out Primed Heated Charge or out Ruinous Extension (So, nore more Heated Charge then). This means my overall damage output drops radically, but I still see crits happening and there's the armor stripping happening.
See, my issue here is that I need to make space for 2 more mods when adding crit into the equation, when I have more like just one open-ish slot. Kind of a problem, but the difference is real.
Since this is a preliminary reactions thread, those were some of my preliminary reactions. Turns out I actually DO have working Status (I was only going to believe it when I saw it), and that skews some things. I'm not editing my previous statements, but I will say what I feel as I play. If things are different from what I expected, I will make note of this.
On that note, the Flux (and by extension the Cycron). They have done justice to the battery system they had in place. It works now. I'm still waiting to see real DAMAGE, but at least there's utility to the recharging ammo system.
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The following flubs are the ones that bother me. I gave up on many of the beam weapons already, and this does little to reassure me. I WILL try them out (if I still have the "weapon" in question), but I'm not really looking at anything here that's made me excited aside from potential non-looting utility to my Ignis Wraith. Shame Ember won't get to see the day Ignis is really decent, as I chucked her worthless self into the woodchipper after the recent debacle and subsequent days of attempted modding.
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Flux Rifle: Teats on a boar hog. That's what unlimited ammo is to this already-weak weapon. Sorry, but ALSO having to fight Puncture for those tasty Slash procs to get ANY extra damage? Nope, not buying it. This was the gun I was looking forward to the most, and unlimited freaking ammo doesn't make it look any better. If anything, it looks worse.
Amprex: 14m is danger-close to being melee range. I'm sorry, but this isn't a thing I can feel okay with. Unlimited ammo on top of that (with no other stat changes) would have me looking at it sideways, as I have OTHER MELEE WEAPON CHOICES that better suit my needs (and have no sort of reload timer EVER). Additionally, I'm against losing crit chance, reguardless of the damage involved. This isn't about damage here, it's about style (stupid as that unabashedly is). Orange and Red crits are fun, plus the stacking of crit multipliers and crit scaling means that I (as a Volt) may see less of a damage buff here than you might claim, particularly if the loss of range somehow affects the chaining.
Atomos: Wow, okay, so lets look at dropping from 50 base damage to 29.... Because proccing FIRE status is going to do ANYTHING for this bulbous lump of Grineer space wizardry... Also, anyone else notice that crits are added as if that's going to somehow help out here, instead of just muddy a build? Dat 1.7x multiplier tho... Nope, another case of turning something marginal into something even lesser.
Special mention: Synapse. Okay, so the story here is simple. I hate Synapse. I hate it purely and without reservation. I detested it to start, but by the end of leveling it I was so incensed and frustrated with the gun that I wound up vomiting. Literally puking bile and acid. Upchucking. Hurling. I do not enjoy anything about this weapon AT ALL. On a positive note, I at least have a personal reason why the Synapse would be Corrosive: bile and acid. How do I feel about the rest of the gun's rework? It's still in the game. They missed the "Delete" key.
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After trying out Atlas seriously for the first time ever, I'd say the rework is pretty decent. I still feel as if he needs more raw HP to start with, and the rubble needs to have a larger pickup radius (if I'm being greedy, I would also ask that rubble count as health orbs for abilities and mods that care about such things), but he's much more playable.
I will note that his wall (2nd ability thingy) is as useful as teats on a boar hog, and the Rumblers are just really expensive rubble-in-waiting (it's not even much rubble either), but I can feel good about playing this stony bruiser against most mobs. Unfortunately, MOST MOBS is the operative phrase. Atlas is still surprisingly delicate at times, so T4-type Void missions are not exactly to be recommended.
As to changes, easier pickup on the rubble comes first and foremost. Next up, maybe rubble from Path of Statues as well? That's 2 QoL suggestions off the cuff.
As to mechanical alterations, a redesign of the wall is called for... Sorry, but there's no saving a wall that a half-drunk shepherd could outdo, and at nearly the same speed as Atlas.
The Rumblers are sort of a joke in my eyes, but whatever. If they're here, then let them petrify on cancellation (I thought this was a thing, but I haven't seen it work), AND let them drop a sizable quantity of rubble on death. They would then act as living, punching petrification grenades that are also medkits for Atlas. They could also drop health orbs on death, granting Atlas a modicum of beneficial team-play. As he stands, he needs the extra healing.
Speaking of healing, Atlas' health pool is somewhat shallow. Bumping him up to closer to 1000 health (with Vitality on, of course) would let him survive considerably more damage while still carrying a build focused on ability usage, making him more action-oriented. That's the key for me, continuously doing something. Else if, I just fall asleep. He needs more raw HP in order to accomplish this, but not too much more.
Realistically, this Atlas is CLOSE. Very, very close. A few tweaks that we don't currently have mod space for (without an Augment slot, that is), and he'll be just about perfect.
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On 2/13/2018 at 4:48 PM, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:
I had high hopes for Twirling Spire, unfortunately for me no matter how many Attack Speed boosting mods I put into a polearm with that stance it feels oddly clunky even with proper combo execution. However, Shimmering Blight or the basic polearm quick melee combo is very effective and flows fluidly with the slide spin attack. Even though I’m not in melee mode, I still enjoy polearms quick melee.
The same goes for dual dagger quick melee. Remember when Fang Prime absolutely dominated the melee meta in Damage 1.0? I still do.
edit: In all honesty, though, Warframe has gone through many heaps and hurdles when it came to melee and I feel like we’re in a good spot. We’re Space Ninjas with a plethora of guns and weapons taking down hordes of enemies. That’s the basic premise of this game’s fantasy, and I’d like it to stick this way.
Melee bumped up into a pretty big level ever since the Shadow Debt mods premiered. Body Count (also Drifting Contact as a nightmare mod) shifted the playing field, Venka Prime’s x1.75 combo counter rate, and now Naramon’s passive for combo counter decay is furthering that boost. Sure, Blood Rush and Maiming Strike were certainly huge boosts to melee’s predominant force, but I always felt that the aim to keep a sustained combo counter was what really changed melee to what it is today.
Imho, if anything were to be nerfed it would be Blood Rush and not necessarily Maiming Strike. Blood Rush’s calculations are at +165% crit rate that stacks on combo multiplier. Doesn’t anyone feel that that’s somewhat high? I digress, obviously, because we have several contenders here that feel that Maiming Strike’s flat crit chance of +90% is high as well.
Addendum: Call me old, but I still remember how people complained about how Volt would speedrun kill Jackal with a Boltor Prime and Glaive before anyone could do anything when farming Rhino was a thing, where farming for a frame part took about 20-40 runs total. So, yeah. The methods for killing may change, but the ideal of efficient killing and the quicker grind will never change. But as always, haters will still continue to hate.
NOTE: I'll look at cleaning this up after I'm not using a cellphone to reply. Also, some of this is more for general Thread consumption, rather than directed at any one person here.
The first rule of Fang Club is that you do not talk about Fang Club. The second rule of Fang Club is that you do not talk about Fang Club!
Seriously though, I miss using my Fang Primes. The reason melee weapons weren't part of the weapons rework is most likely because of many layers of BS DE has to wade through in order to make some of them ever see the light of day again. Dual Daggers have no attraction to them at all (outside of Okina cosplay reasoning), and they're not the only class of weapons dominated by turds.
In fact, whips really tend to suck too, thanks to piss-poor stances. Take away all slide attack options from the game and how often would you see a Lecta or an Atterax?
If anything, melee weapons represent WEEKS of animation work, range adjustment, hitbox analysis, AND numbers adjustments.
Hopefully we see a clearer set of outlined objectives for the melee overhaul somewhat soonish. I'm not going to sweat Maiming Strike or whatnot, just so long as I'm not seeing my melee kill times spike back sky-high (like in the bad old days, when melee was only there for the look of it).
Slide attacks offer certain benefits, but to me the greatest is that you gain significant mobility to a strike, moving WHILE hitting. I love them for an initiator to follow-up combo attacks, or as a way to cut off (literally) a fleeing foe.
Rather than complaining about this "spin-2-win meta", I'd love to hear people coming up with suggestions on how to improve melee combos on weapons where slide attacks are most often built for to the exclusion of all else. Increasing the effectiveness of alternatives can often help to fix problems like we see with this unimaginative "beyblading".
To be honest, anyone who cannot outkill a Sliderax strategy with ranged weapons needs to aim*. We have MORE than enough ways to SLAUGHTER EVERYTHING before it comes into whip range, and it's high-time people start using them. If nothing else, you can force the beyblader to work for it, and there is little more satisfying in Warframe than hearing someone with a slide Atterax complaining that I'm "hogging all teh killz"!
*If someone is beyblading so hard and fast that you never even see the enemies, then tough. They'd do the same with 'Frame powers or AoE weapons just the same, provided they're half-decent with movement and aiming. Trying to nerf all the AoE and 'Frame powers to compensate for someone who cannot even keep up would do DRAMATICALLY more harm to Warframe than good.
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1 hour ago, Aegni said:
Angry much?
Anyways @AweMuse: Not all stances are bad. Cleaving whirlwind and tempo royale both reward a lot of dmage for their combos such that a maiming strike spam is inferior for killing their targets.
Crushing Ruin is a favorite of mine as well. It's got very simple combos on a very simple, brute-force type of weapon. Better still, I can slide in, flip over into the pause combo, and go with the block combo to clear any stragglers. Best of all, it FLOWS like that, each aspect working with the others.
I'm very fond of Cyclone Kraken and Twirling Spire too.
Thing is that I cannot say either of the Whip stances have combos worth the name. I get why people just go with slide attacks there. It's actually the best way to play them.
Revisiting old stances that nobody likes to use is also a good idea for trying to change the Maiming meta.
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Welp, after a few days with this change, I've found my Volt to be more spam-happy and less likely to survive than ever before.
Either I delete everything in 1 cast or they're likely going to kill me. No in-between.
Capacitance does good work still, but shields are meaningless at higher levels, so I feel as if there's a level cap attached to my Warframe that wasn't there before.
Basically, it's back to turtling-up under Electric Shields and throwing mobility totally out the window again.
Fun fun... So engaging that I fight nodding off at least as often as any other enemy, and that includes the dreaded ability timer boss.
Totally doesn't make Speed feel COMPLETELY out of place either. Of course, people tend to build Speed over anything else, so this change did nothing so far as many of them are concerned.
DE, it's not a buff if it compels people to AVOID building for the ability that was tweaked, and it's not a good sign when the potential damage spikes this hard and players hate the skill MORE.
I'd recommend the timer before electrical burn starts be removed, the duration at range be bumped to a MINIMUM of 4 seconds, and some of the damage be adjusted to prevent the damage numbers from being so impossibly silly.
Seriously, it's SAD to hear "Volt isn't CC" and then see an enemy get caught in a damage-less 3-second stun because of positioning.
EDIT: If you think that sounds harsh, you should have heard me earlier in the week. This change has not "been generally well recieved".
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Some of these weapons aren't calculating correctly. It's more than just the Mara Detron, there are a few other shotguns suffering from the same thing.
It may be a hard-cap that DE "forgot" to mention.
And they wondered why we supported data-mining...
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If I could build my Brakk for 100% Status, I'd use it. If it had significantly better crit stats, I'd probably use it. As it is, it's rank-'n-bank fodder.
The Brakk was nerfed to death a long time ago. People still ran it then (and still do occasionally) for it's high point blank damage output, but at any distance it stops causing damage VERY quickly. I miss the first version of the Brakk. It was quite a bit of fun. Today I find that I get more use from my Acrid than the Brakk.
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On 2/9/2018 at 10:40 PM, Rekkou said:
Just equip Vile Acceleration, you get your fire rate back while still keeping most of the damage
I always hate to see required fire rate mods. It's exactly like being told that the weapon will have one less mod slot than other guns.
I THINK I'll be able to fix this thing, but I'm still waiting for an auto-fire option that fires each barrel in series, sort of like a stacked quad Bofors.
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@Pizzarugi: I too farmed disheartening quantities of Mutagen Samples for my Ghost Clan's Hema research. I rolled ODS runs until my eyes bled and I could Nidus in my sleep. Orokin Derelict Survival used to be a favorite mission type for me...
I always rolled Friends Only in the off chance someone else needed to do the same thing. In fact, Friends Only IS Solo mode as far as I'm concerned.
As to Maiming Strike, DEFINITELY it needs to be applied AFTER Blood Rush. That just isn't right. In terms of numbers, I wouldn't change it much, if at all. Maybe drop it from +90% additive crit to +60% additive? Simply changing the order in which it's applied would help.
Slide attack multipliers may also be a touch high for some weapons, but I'm not sure if or how that should be changed.
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5 hours ago, Andele3025 said:
Actually, changing Primed Reach and normal Reach to be 4~4.5m and 1.5~2m range increase respectively would be amazing for short ranged melee while not heavily effecting pole, whip and whipblade weapons (since primed reach is bugged/range calculations are probably based on some bonus range and not a innate 1 or 1.5m range which means 5m of whips becomes 11.5m instead of the 13.25m range it should be with a 165% bonus), especially since claws, fists and swords already get a massive benefit from the mere meter and half primed reach gives them due to being easier to hit with finisher opening attacks.
Better still, a touch of animation work would be all that's required to explain this away.
Heck, we don't have to even have that much.
Regardless, I feel as if more engaging missions, where they actively adapt to the players, might be a better call. If someone's spamming melee, the mission drops in enemies that are tough to kill if you don't aim. If you're spamming abilities, the game loads up foes that are RESISTANT (because F*** Nullifiers and the BS immunity bubble) to abilities. I'd even be amused to see some better AI as well, since I'm asking for so much already.
I believe there are plenty of alternatives to nerfing things. Just bumping numbers up or down can change things, but sometimes a bit of clever game design can also offset a problem.
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2 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:
Nerf primed reach? Thats gonna hurt ALOT of other weapons. Sparring, claws, nunchucks, some dual swords, most one handed swords... Would hurt a ton of weapons nerfing that mod not even including exalted weapons like valkyr claws
All of those examples are terrible options for Primed Reach, given how small the benefit tends to be.
Hell, I do use it on the occasional Machete or OH Sword, but that's only if I can't think of something else to put there. I tend to get FAR more from a 90% Elemental or 120% IPS mod instead, and anytime I see the option I add Blood Rush/Drifting Contact instead.
Look, people sweeping rooms are using Primed Reach and something with a naturally high base range to accomplish the massive number of hits required. As long as melee is powerful AT ALL this fact will not change, and these MS builds can usually just slot in something else that boosts damage and accomplish near identical results at sub-Sortie levels.
For that matter, I DO NOT run MS on my Sortie gear. There's no point. I can turn out enough damage other ways OR damage won't be particularly useful. WAAAAAAAY too often I find that I'm the only one focused on KILLING things. Everyone else just CCs and dashes by.
Farming on Starchart missions is all about doing as much damage in as large an area as possible. There would be fewer new players encountering hard-core farming strategies if they weren't matched to people who are 1000+ hour MR 20+ vets that just need X more of that one resource. The farming mentality is something that DEs grindy gameplay ACTIVELY ENCOURAGES.
I'm NOT saying we need to "nerf the thing in order to fix the other thing", I'm saying that the tools used are not the ones the OP identified. Moreover, I DISAGREE with nerfing ANYTHING that makes the farming less odious.
Therefore, my point is this: Maiming Strike isn't killing rooms full of Starchart enemies, melee is. Melee is clearing such huge swaths of foes so quickly BY HITTING THEM, and that falls to Primed Reach buffing something with good base range in the first place. There are PLENTY of options for sweeping rooms at Starchart levels that have NOTHING to do with melee AT ALL. As such, Maiming Strike IS NOT THE PROBLEM!
If you want more to do in Starchart missions, roll out Solo or Friends Only until DE fixes this weird matchmaking logic.
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On 2/11/2018 at 2:29 AM, --Dr.AbaddonicSloth said:
Never did I personally mention Condition Overload, I mentioned the range on meme strike... My CO melees kill faster than meme strike as well, but the problem is the absolutely ridiculous range meme strike has on some weapons, and it completely obliterates any trash mobs, and some higher tier mobs, at most levels... in a huge AOE range. Anywho, continue to argue. DE needs to see this.
Okay, so you say that Primed Reach is your problem, at least as much as Maiming Strike. Good to know.
Look, I agree that the stacking mechanics and order are problematic here. That said, the argument ALWAYS and WITHOUT EXCEPTION boils down to the RANGE. If we consider this, perhaps the problem is larger than an additive crit mod. It might just be that crit mod hitting everything in a large area, as I've seen posted OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.
If something needs to be nerfed, I'd argue it's the source of the troubles, rather than a contributor. Nerf Primed Reach, drop Maiming Strike to an additive +60% crit chance, and stack it AFTER Blood Rush.
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FWIW, I've been rolling a Condition Overload build that kills at LEAST as fast as a Maiming Strike for my Zaw polearm. In fact, I've found that my CO machete kills faster than my Sliderax.
I think the issue y'all have with Maiming Strike is that people aren't being imaginative with their builds. You can't police people's choices.
More than just nerfing one mod, some of these weapons need better melee combos. Hell, without even running Maiming I find myself sliding into some packs on occasion. It's a great initiator, it's a solid way to clear smurfs, and you're slightly harder to hit. It's also fun to occasionally do something other than just hammer E over and over and over and over and over and over......
If you believe that the issue is CAUSED by Maiming Strike, think again. I'm pretty sure that whip users won't change a damn thing if this mod is nerfed. Hell, if Maiming Strike is removed tomorrow PEOPLE WILL STILL DO THIS!
Role-playing a top is about as fun and engaging as punching two keys (or one macro key) over and over and over again can be. The effectiveness stems from slide attack damage bonuses, bypassing slow and inefficient melee combos, and utilizing high range to it's best potential.
Maiming Strike is the frosting on the cake. Getting rid of it would change NOTHING WHATSOEVER. I would prefer meaningful action be taken to fix a bigger problem in melee; that being the simple superiority of slide attacking.
No, it's no fun. No, it's not the only choice. But sitting around whining about one mod when there's a bigger problem is about as helpful as spin-2-win itself.
EDIT: Whenever the argument is "someone else is killing harder/faster/better/stronger than I am, plz nerf" or some variant thereof it crawls right up my craw. Look, when people kill things in Warframe, they're playing the game. That's all we can do in game. I would LOVE having more to do, but for now, this is how we interact with the game.
This logic leads to continuously nerfing everything until all that's left is bland porridge.
Look, I want to see problems fixed. Maiming Strike isn't the root cause of the slide attack trouble. Primed Reach might be.
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8 hours ago, Dark_Roxas said:
I used the plasmor(had no changes except the higher mag
Errm.. welp, THAR'S yer p'oblem!
Plasmor took a much bigger nerf hit than most people realize. I'd recommend trying ANYTHING ELSE, as Plasmor ain't likely to be repaired anytime soon.
In fact, if slot space is important to you, junk it. There are plenty of other options that have radically fewer drawbacks built in. Worse case scenario, just buy a BP later on and build it again.
For now, I recommend you get another gun.
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Okay, I've had time to think.
In order to solve the primary shortcoming of Volt's Discharge, I've come up with 2 good solutions.
1. Increase the minimum duration of Discharge at it's max range to 4 seconds. Doing so grants Volt all the CC he absolutely requires while maintaining the new damage output, thus pushing Volt towards DPS without sacrificing his survivability for a non-scalable damage number.
2. Give all Warframes an Augment slot. For many 'Frames there are a variety of useful build options, most more or less successful. Augments are just that, something that improves upon a skill in order to strengthen a specific build logic. However, for some 'Frames there are specific augments that are as optional as the 4th wheel on a car. Yes, the 'Frame CAN operate without the augment in question, but usually there are serious problems to this strategy.
The advantages of an augment-specific slot on 'Frames are thus: first, all 'Frames may benefit from this change, rather than just Volt; secondly, augment-specific slots drive players to invest more time and Formas into any given 'Frame, thus increasing the chances of deeper understanding of that 'Frame's skills and quirks, as well as that 'Frame's interactions in the rest of the game.
Finally, there is a more important benefit to augment slots being added to Warframe: build diversity. Augments themselves add benefits to specific skills, but the game and the 'Frames are (somewhat) balanced around a player using all available slot space on stat-buffing mods. Before Exilus mods had the Exilus slot, nearly all of these mods represented wasted effort on the part of Digital Extremes in design, coding, and implementation. In many ways, the same can be held to be true of augments now. Either an aug is required (and thus an auto-include in the build) or it will never be added for any reason whatsoever. Adding the augment slot would, at BARE MINIMUM, increase build diversity.
Either of these solutions seem to be good answers, and they aren't even mutually-exclusive.
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6 hours ago, LastRide said:
Look, most changes are awesome and I love it.
But "Volt is not CC".
Guess what he's doing. I just tested max strenght discharge against both armor and flesh (corpus tech) and the damage was inexistent against armor and laughable for max strenght against Corpus. Volt still does nothing but CC and unfortunately, as much as an alternative to gunplay as Atlas is a healer. Volt needs more changes if he's not supposed to be CC and should be dealing damage instead.Hard to second this enough. I'm sorry, but this Discharge is very sad.
I just took a solid dose of an amazing anti-depressant (she's wonderful medicine), and I still feel sick at this change. Nothing I do makes this work. The duration is too short (just like Speed), the area is too inconsistant (actually worsening Volt's dependance on Range), and the damage doesn't exist, so Strength is REQUIRED to get ANY effect out of it.
Guess what? When something needs maximization in ALL CATEGORIES in order to function as intended, it's broken. I'm VERY sorry to say this, but this update did more to hurt Volt than to help him.
It's very sad, but even all the weapons buffs aren't making me feel good here. I'm not playing any of the other 'Frames. I just want to revert Volt to an old, unsatisfying state from earlier today, if only because there was a build that could make some use of all of his skills. That build was taken away.
The very worst part here is that Volt is EVEN MORE unfriendly to new players now than ever before. High-level Volt players are going to roll nothing but Speed builds (confusing and confounding anyone not familiar with movement in Warframe) or Discharge builds (frying rooms of low level mobs over and over, stealing all the kills), and no new player will be able to match that for WEEKS of play. New players cannot even hope to build Volt like veterans can because of the difference in mods.
This version of Discharge requires max Range and Duration, plus very high Efficiency for spamming. That means that you cannot use Speed at all. Speed requires high Strength, and to date it's the only skill Volt has that REWARDS Strength.
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2 minutes ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:
So hidden nerfs?
Oh yeah. Discharge build is no longer viable. Damage doesn't keep up with enemy scaling at all. CC does.
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4 minutes ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:
What is the short comings of it now?
The loss of duration killed it ded.
The Discharge build isn't viable, as it's only damage focused, but worse still the duration took such a hit...
It's a 6 second duration now, BEFORE range is factored in.
NOTE: I keep saying "duration", because that's all you build now. Strength and Duration. AKA, Speed build. So, no point to nearly a full year's work in creating a build that made use of all Volt's skills, that's not an option now.
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Is there any way to just REVERT Volt? This is even worse than before... Now I have even LESS chance against level 40+ enemies than before! Either they die or I do, ZERO in-between.
This actually removes Discharge builds from viability. I can't gain enough shields from Capacitance to survive, I can't CC, I'm running low on energy to drop Electric Shields AND they cost if I want to carry them...
This is a straight-up nerf.
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Look, the issues I'm having here are pretty basic: Volt is slow and squishy. He has Speed to compensate, but that requires Duration and Strength. Shock and Discharge both need Range, but Discharge also needs Efficiency AND now REQUIRES Duration. Electric Shield isn't an ability you can create a build around, per se, but that one needs Duration.
See the problem? Volt REQUIRES positives in ALL stats. Now, it's even worse, and he's STILL not a damage 'Frame. Deleting low level smurfs isn't anything to write home about, nor is it justification to call a 'Frame a damage specialist. His damage output is, if anything, potentially worse than before, but it does spike past armor slightly more efficiently.
Volt just lost his best method of scaling into endgame content. If the duration of the stun was AT BARE MINIMUM 6 seconds AT MAX RANGE this would be fine, but that's not the case. As I can't carry shields around and have the energy I need to reliably respond to enemy threats, this means that Volt can only turtle up and pray...
I'm as disappointed with this nerf as I've been with the continued primacy of the Speed build.
Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]
in Warframes
Posted
Point: I'd say that I have a very solid set of builds for Volt. The thing is that these builds rely on Primed Mods, Arcanes, and specific Crit/Status guns and their interactions with his ES. This is a TERRIBLE thing for new players, who have to log in for 400 days to get Primed Vigor (a central mod for my builds), kill Eidolons GALORE to get the 2 stacks of Arcane Barrier I recommend for my main and Overextended builds, and reach a Mastery rank of at LEAST 12 for some of the better weapons (as well as farm up a bunch of Primes that aren't available right now for good weapon variety).
Conclusion: Volt ain't for new players AT ALL.
Point: Volt's unique abilities lend him to different builds and build experementation, creating diversity in build logic and allowing for highly varied player experiences with Volt. Unfortunately, the only builds that see significant play focus on either Speed or Discharge, with Electric Shield being an important player in both (I will note that some other folks seem to have wigged to my Cetus setup focusing on sniping and Electric Shield in a neat bit of parallel build evolution, but this build only works in open world areas). Focusing on any one ability tends to render another impotent or too expensive to use regularly.
Conclusion: Volt's modding requirements push highly linear builds that are very focused on just one ability, leading to the "'lil button" play strategy.
Point: Volt tends to lack intra-ability synergies (the Shock interactions being so forced and artifical that they, while still being mentioned, largely do not factor in). If you use an ability, that's it. Ability used. Basically no effect on any other abilities, attempted interactions notwithstanding. This creates a view of each skill as it's own entity, and empowers focused build arguements. Because each of Volt's tools is independant, each is measured by it's own merits AND NOT the merits of other skills; this creating an over-simplified play style that's too shallow for experienced players to spend any real time tinkering with.
Conclusion: Volt's overly-simple kit and build logic means he's not for veterans looking for significant depth, and the lack of synergy means Meta builds are immediately and observably correct in their assessments.
Point: Volt lacks an audience, isn't particularly deep, isn't very interesting, and tends to be treated as a 2nd tier 'Frame with specific niches where he works about as well as a top-tier choice (which invariably brings other desirable traits to play, usually counting Volt out).
Conclusion: DE's rework didn't bring Volt into the modern game, let alone the modern meta.
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Is Volt bad? No. He's just not generally useful to the team, and tends to be somewhat trollzy when built for Speed.
Does Volt have a niche? Maybe. He's a competent choice for the Hills of Eidolon, with his fishing passive and Electric Shields to deal with Eidolon projectiles.
Does Volt need more work? YES. Volt does need a bit more lovin', mostly with an eye toward ability synergy and modding requirements. He's CLOSE, but not quire there. Also, needs moar Ball Lightning.