przemo877
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Posts posted by przemo877
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1 hour ago, Dejiek_ said:
It's because you don't get the Tenet Ferrox from the sisters. In fact, the Ferrox, Agendus, Exec, Livia, and Grigori, are all obtained by Ergo Glast with corrupted holokeys. This was the cause of my posting of this forum because I didn't realize this fact and these were the weapons I was missing.
Oh really? My bad, kinda stupid though that Ferrox is the only ranged weapon in Glast's shop because it's not intuitive at all when people look in their codex and see ranged tenet missing. Nevertheless the weapon duplications still seem off because I've had 2 different weapon duplicates right after the other which can't really be explained by running out of weapon pool and starting it with duplicate if the next 2 weapons are duplicates of different weapon aswell. Thanks for your clarification, spared me some unnecessary grind.
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My biggest gripe with the current melee mechanic is that attacks from standing still move you forward which is nonsense. Also would be nice to have an actual button for attacks that lift enemies properly, like in other games and where you can follow through with proper lift combo that ends in smashing enemy into the ground.
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I wouldn't mind if defense objectives were actually scaling properly with their HP. But they don't.
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I'm bumping this thread because I'm currently trying to get Tenet Ferrox and the pool of weapons can't run out of duplicates. I'm not aborting missions. I wish the way to acquire kuva/tenet weaponry wasn't designed to be obnoxious.
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10 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:
I'd tell you that cannot be the case that all players are either polar opposite tournament players or total noobs, unless you'd consider anyone not playing tournament to be a total noob. Same with Warframe, we just got back a sample size of about 1/3rd or so of the player base, all with varying concept of what difficulty is important, what they prefer.. and the answers are all over the place. There are many people within the bell curve, but even if there weren't.. if roughly half of your player base is tournament engineers, and the other half are button mashers, you're still going to have to aim for the middle, or halfway bankrupt your business to prove a point.
I'll be glad to discuss this with you further in PM if you're up to it, but I don't wish to take any more of these pages for us to have our back and forth.. however relevant it may be. Regardless of our disagreement and approach, your feedback is appreciated... even when that's not obvious in the response.
As for court jesters... while everyone fancies themselves a comedian, very few are legitimately funny. More often than not, they're just being flatly obtuse and laughing afterwards as if that's how it works. I'm sure DE's used to it.. but jokes at their expense don't make for usable feedback, nor do they truly resolve people's aggressions in a meaningful way. More often just ramp them up. People escalate indefinitely. Cheering them on doesn't make it better.I guess I'll just clarify what I meant by Mortal Kombat example: the tournament players are in the group that embraces the complexity. Think about it this way, many people exercise, some people do not at all, from those that do exercise a handful of them are further developing those skills to become professionals and do that for the living. You can still see that there are mostly 2 groups of people: those that don't excercise or are talked to excercise for a bit but quickly drop it (the masher) or those that do enjoy and will excercise no matter what (pretty much the rest that enjoy excercising).
I know it's great oversimplification of what's going on, but I very often find it easier to discuss difficult topics with simple arguments and simple comparisons - opposite of what I'd like Warframe UI to look like I guess, heh jokes on me.
As for the jesters, we live in the information era, almost everybody wants to voice their opinion be it good or bad and almost everybody craves for more information.
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46 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:
The satire and mockery gets us actual nowhere..
After thinking about it a little bit longer I remembered that history thaught us something else, long ago it was almost a neccesary thing in civilised countries to employ the court jester to keep the royalty in check by being able to mock and criticise their rash decisions.
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5 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:
Our criticism is listened to, but since it can't all happen people take it personal. There's a lot of very black and white opinions on what, "improvement," means.. and if it's not perfect to them, then it was a failure. The satire and mockery gets us actual nowhere.. and I get that's out of desperation; that desperation is also heavy handed, reactionary, and shallow.. because we are video gamers, and that's kind of our callsign.. but it shoots us and everyone in the foot. They listened with revision to Lich, told us who posted the ideas, thanked us for it, changed some of those aspects, and still, "They don't listen!," because it wasn't Everything. Exact same with Railjack.. If they don't capitulate to each fleeting whim from the thronging masses, they've let us down. Strictly speaking, that's neither fair, reasonable, or helpful.. but that's the bar we set, and our impossible measure of success. Many of us are entitled teenagers with grossly under developed impulse control.. and that's hardly the kind of litmus test for actual success that anyone can turn into development cycles and workable business models.
There is entirely more criticism than ideas. There are more half baked and impossible ideas than there are good ones. There are far more good ideas than great, and only some of those are actionable. Expecting to wholesale consider our criticism as valid and necessary is a mistake. I'll give you an example here in this thread: "Why simplify information for new players? You're going to lose players who want more information." That approach is recklessly narrow minded and self centered, but it's most of the replies. The original post itself touches on why that cannot be the goal... but nah. "My way or the highway -New people aren't welcome if they don't like spreadsheets -Why are we losing players?" Folks getting all up themselves about not being the only demographic catered to misses the point, the mission, the scope of the game, or the business model... but they're still going to say it's DE's fault they didn't get it their way.
There are people who don't want stats. There are people who Do want stats. There are people who want more information, others less, others pictures, or words, or droptabs, or walls of text... every single one of them is here to say, "You're Wrong!" So.. Cool. Now what?
Most players can't see past their needs, whatsoever. The only way I can see to make everyone happy is to have the game magically cater to ALL specific potential outcomes, and just sorta figure it out for us so we feel special. Otherwise it's a doomsday failure of epic proportions, and, "we're just plain right to call it that." But realistically speaking, they're gonna have to land somewhere in the middle of the bell curve in order to meet quota.. and no matter what, people on either extreme will feel excluded. Making games is expensive, and no one has any patience for anything short of their imaginary goals.
The least we can do, is try to help politely suggest things we'd like, accept that nothing is perfect, and try to be civil about how deeply we look our gift horse in the mouth.Gameplay features aside, you are missing the point which is that not every game should be 100% perfect for 100% of players in the world. That's simply impossible and given what type of game Warframe is - overwhelmingly complex one, it is counterintuitive to fight against the tide and falsly hide the complexity of the game instead of allowing people actually interested in the game to embrace it.
You ever noticed how in fighting games for example like Mortal Kombat there are only two types of players?
- "the masher of 1 button"
- someone that actually tries to understand the game mechanics and embraces the complexity of fighting movesThere's almost never anybody in between. Can you guess which of those players Mortal Kombat is being made for and why?
Similarly with Warframe, it's complexity and UI, if it's overwhelming someone new with it's vastness of content and information, they will probably play a bit and drop it after a month because they most probably were searching for something simpler, if they were lied to by hidden complex elements and find out after a month that the game is too complex because they now need to regularly visit wiki they will probably drop it either way because they weren't interested in something like that in the first place.
And It's perfectly ok! I can sympathise with those people because I'm like that whenever I see Crusader Kings 2 that some of my friends play, being overwhelmed of what's going on on the screen I simply go back to Total War Warhammer 2 (still kinda complex but IMHO simpler than CK2).
It's how the games always were and will be.
Warframe will never be able to cater to everybody on the planet even with extremely drastic changes. On the other hand it might have complete opposite effect on the playerbase, discouraging it from further playing.
One more thing, ever heard a saying that: "it's impossible to brew a beer that everybody will like, but it's perfectly possible to make a beer that absolutely nobody will like"?
Guess where we are with UI.
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26 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:
"You guys are doing it all wrong, and you're dumb. You can't do anything right, and I have proof.."
More and more people are like that because after like 1,5 year of constructive criticism, the UI was barely changed in the better direction and we have further changes on the way that didn't took all this criticism into consideration. We are making 1 step forward only to make 1 step backward after a year. It kinda feels disappointing.
I've mentioned here in earlier post that after this long, some veterans that are desperate for the game to improve, especially towards the new players, you know to not let the game die, they feel (me included) that since our criticism isn't listened to, all that's really left for us is satire and mockery to push the message through. That's why people are making all the UI memes on all sorts of different forums. We are just desperate for the game to improve and stay relevant, seeing that the playerbase numbers are constantly dwindling and we have long content drought ahead of us.
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2 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:
They also have limitations to how much development they can throw at it. At this moment in time, they're able to resume work on it, so whatever you didn't get before, you can request.. and if possible, they'll do it.
We as players are Constantly dreaming up new ideas and innovations. It's not possible to meet every demand, especially on budget, and within a reasonable time limit. What they can do, is service what we find to be the obvious faults, if they are in any way actionable. How does our UI better meed expectations by saying, "Thing aren't perfect, so let's default to being overtly miserable... because at least that way we're right."
Would you be able to meet the individual (and often contrary) demands of 20,000+ Users in a quick and affordable way? With no error or stylistic difference whatsoever? Does that mean they shouldn't try, or that we can't still give feedback? Even if they can't meet your demands, they can consider it for later, or integrate some facet into it's intent. No one's job becomes easier to accomplish when we tell them, "I'm just going to be unhappy, and you will fail at your goals." They openly welcome your suggestions on how do it right, knowing that it can never be perfect. That deserves some level of consideration and maybe even respect.. but if nothing else, some ideas are certainly better than, "woe, misery, and defeat."I'm very charitable with prise in this day and age towards [DE] considering other game studios - something I very often find myself being criticised for by my friends that I like to be too apologetic, but something as simple as "Item label" or weapon statistics in the codex that needs to be hovered over is a no brainer for anybody, yet [DE] for some unknown reasons defends those ideas?
Could you try imagine working in a factory at some difficult to understand piece of equipment after being given the instruction manual that is 1 page long, consists of 3 big, beautiful pictures and has no text in it to help you understand the complexity of your work?
Because Warframe is extremely complex game that demands from players, new or old to CONSTANTLY check everything on the wiki just because it's easier and more convenient even tough the exact same information, shortened could be placed in the game and no one would be mad about it?
And yet, we will be given more of the same in the mission summary, you'll need to hover over resources or item parts in order to remember or find out what you got, just why? What's the point? Would your avarege or new player prefer to see 4 frames JoJo posing in the summary instead of learning what they got from the mission? I don't think so, yet here we are.
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22 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:
Or ya know, maybe give feedback that can work with?
Community was doing that since the introduction of the very first UI rework and we had extremely mixed results.
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Most of the UI issues can be summed up by this
What we desperately want and need (more or less):
Spoiler
What [DE] desperately wants to give us:
Spoiler
Can you see the difference in functionality?
The funniest part is that I had to use Duck search engine because Google images still had some useful labels on them.
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I'll add my own two cents. What's the point of having a Codex? Me personally, I use it to check statistics of items, to compare valuable data. Whenever there are some new items added or balance is tweaked. But I'm finding it very unintuitive, annoying and it's just easier to go on a wiki at this point. You are encouraging people to use the wiki instead of searching the information in your game. Was that [DE]'s goal all along? To just look nice and send people away to the wiki?
What's the point of having THIS anywhere, especially in the Codex? Can you see how much unused space there is? And how miniscule the AkJagara is in that screen in comparison? Sometimes I wish I had a magnifying glass at hand because you can't properly zoom in on anything in the game outside of combat and additionaly everything spins around out of your control.
<sarcasm>
Gee, I wish the screen wasn't obscured with SO much information so that I could finally see that AkJagara. Might still need binoculars tough.
</sarcasm>I'm really sorry for being a jerk, but so many people were giving you feedback about "ABOUT" hover overs for so long and you still chose to leave it in, that I feel like legitimate constructive criticism is no longer valid here and all I'm left with is satire. You literally can't properly/freely see the items you are checking and on top of that the MOST IMPORTANT information needs to be hovered over, because it's hidden by default.
Why?
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Even after the patches to he drop notifications, there is still 1 major flaw. Those notifications clog up really fast, to the point where you can get a notification about the resource that was already used, giving you a false hope and wasting time when you are running to the forge trying to use something you no longer have. So I'm giving here a very crude solution to this problem: constant live feed from the forge resources like in the picture I'm providing.
If you absolutely don't want to implement this quality of life improvement, perhaps tie it up to tactical or engineering intrinsics at one of the early levels? Win-win.
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Fire Suppression tactical avionic with 1 upgraded grid slot only extinguishes 1 fire instead of written 2.
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I generally like how the next melee phase turned out, but there are still 2 major issues similar in nature.
1. Neutral combo still moves player in the direction of attacking instead of being neutral - standing COMPLETELY still - why is that a problem? Because most enemies don't move with your combo flow, they stay in place and you need to jerk around a camera in order to stay in place, showing your back to the enemy, giving them free shots, because you can't block them.
2. Some if not all heavy attacks in neutral position charge you forward (something you could counter within old system by just moving backwards, now it won't let you) and even if you miss the target because of that useless charge it still drains your combo multiplier.
All I'm really trying to say here is: there should be a combo and heavy attack you can perform from standing completely still and not moving at all, only starting to move when you press the buttons responsible for moving your warframe.
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As of right now I'll only write feedback about metallic textures changes, because I didn't play new disruptions that much yet (the lack of Axi relics on late disruptions is extremely discouraging).
The new metallic textures feel a bit off, ever saw Power Rangers episode with Green Ranger in it? Vast majority of metallic textures look like Green Ranger cheap cloth golden vest. I don't try to be mean or anything, it's just the easiest thing I can compare it to. Current metallic textures look and feel like they lack any kind of depth to them. I'm not a metal expert, I guess I was just spoiled by mirror like metal that we had before, but the current change feels way too drastic on the opposite end.
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Had a good time doing nightwave, but I wish there were more challenging elite challenges, something that actually makes you think outside of the box instead of the usual do x sorties or x other slightly harder missions.
Besides that I honestly think that not making Wolf operate like Stalker Acolytes was a mistake. He almost never spawns for people that enjoy and want to fight him more often and reading how rest of the community struggle with him is kinda sad. If he had official place of operations like every day a different planet with MUCH higher chances of spawn (similar to Stalker acolytes) that would also override syndicates and other assassins it could make some players actively seek the encounter, while players that can't deal with him had easier times evading him. Overall it would result in less frustration. Hopefully something like that will be implemented into existing/future assassins if they are ever going to be reworked/buffed.
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My third post in this thread and hopefully final thoughts about the feeling of melee phase one.
Bare in mind that at this point in time I have no clue what future melee phases will implement after such a long development, so I'll write this post as if they won't happen. To put it simply: only current changes feedback + fixes/improvements suggestions.How it feels:
Right now it feels like it's purposedly being dumbed down for those players that simply mash "default_melee_button" the entire mission with no rythm whatsoever. Dumbed down for no reason at all. Those people - including 2 of my best friends complain that "quick melee" is no longer quick enough becuase the combos sometimes are just too slow, or that they are too inconvenient because they flung them across the room when they didn't want that to happen. That's aside from all the bugs that it implemented that other people mentioned here.
vs How it IMHO should feel:
First of all, if you want new/casual players to enjoy melee as much as melee enthusiasts there should be a choice in options like in Devil May Cry (because I saw in devstreams that you like to talk about it and how awesome it feels), to either play on melee autopilot that will make the game play itself (feels like game's current direction anyway) or hardcore version for enthusiasts that will allow them to manually do standard attacks, charged attacks (why charged attacks need their own keybind? because we don't have a need to slash a glaive in front of us just to throw it a couple of seconds later) AND BLOCK, all 3 of those functiions requiring it's OWN keybind. No more 1 button to rule them all nonsense where the only difference is how hard and long people press it. Not everybody plays on the controler, especially not on PC, so don't forget about your PC players and give them more keybind options to fully customize their melee experience.
Look at fighting games for example, like Mortal Kombat. There are always at least 2 player types: "The masher of 1 button" and "The player that tries to embrace the complex fighting system" so please don't neglect completely the second group while reworking melee for the sake of the first, because believe it or not there are people that enjoy complex fighting systems that fully reworked melee could offer them. Basically the order of implementation of changes feels completely backwards. You started by removing control options instead of expanding them. The scaffolding should be removed only after the building is finished, not before, you can do that for consoles after we fully betatest complete melee 3.0, not before.
Also having faster than light speed gun to melee swap while also having primary to secondary swap taking ages is completely inconsistent and unrealistic. What's the point?
tl;dr:
The best thing you could do right now is to "soft revert" changes by bringing back "switch to melee only" button while also giving people a toggle option for automated stuff like blocking, so that people would have a choice and switch it on/off depending on their playstyle. This way we can have BOTH things! Don't remove options, improve or expand them instead.Edit: at the very least give certain melee actions higher priority, for example charging attack should have higher priority than blocking, that way charged weapons like redeemer would no longer be completely useless.
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Second post in this thread.
As other people mentioned, Redeemer and most probably other charged weapons are completely unusable. I don't try to be mean so don't take it the wrong way but if you are programming this melee, do not beta test it in simulacrum on paused AI, because I hate to say it but it really feels like it was like that.
Melee honestly feels just broken. The game is forcing on me behaviours during a fight I don't want to make, especially as an advanced almost MR27 player. As of right now I only have fun with melee when I unequip ranged weapons, and only with certain melee weapons. I don't think it was supposed to be like that.
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Unfortunately Melee 2.99999999999999 is extremely dissapointing, because let's be honest. Apart from forcing us to change our muscle memory, nothing is really changed after like half a year of development. Sure the new FX looks dope, but it really could be added on any random update. The only changed feature right now is aim slam which feels great, but I think there should be a way to cancel it somehow midflight (if there is I wasn't able to pull it off).
Ridding us of a dedicated way to simply switch and forget from gun to melee was a mistake. Why did you remove it? The combos are awkward when you need to aim your gun for them. Why not just leave it as an option? Why can't you add more keybind options? In other games you can keybind a combination of buttons for example "ctrl+1". If you are afraid that we run out of buttons to press, just give us combination keybinds but don't simply remove good options like "Switch to MELEE ONLY from any gun". In the heat of battle some people might not want to randomly zoom in or shoot with sniper rifles at a guy 10cm away seeing all of his wrinkles in the process.
Am I too harsh? Probably yeah, but that's because I'm still waiting for the remaining 0.000000000000001 melee that contains the actual changes you showed earlier like:
- changed combos, including comboing in any direction or simply in one place,
- reworked quick/charged attacks,
- being able to shorten the distance between us and enemy with just the melee (on the ground),
- reworked channeling,
- complete rebalance of melee weapon statistics.
Untill the last bit of melee 3.0 is released my criticism of current melee might be too harsh which I apologize for in advance, but I feel like it must be said.
Oh I almost forget, being forced to constantly block attacks while having channeling on drains energy way too fast. Sure, the channeling will be reworked some day, but as of right now it isn't and blocking is more inconvenient than it was before the update, even if automatic.
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Only if 100% of affinity goes straight to focus schools in those missions.
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I wish I could only hear her when I click "Tune In" on the Nightwave screen. I hate hearing nonsensical useless small talk, be it in game or real life. As of right now she feels like an Anthem Fort Tarsis NPC. Her experience is SO cheap because she always MUST say something and 99% it's completely useless, pointless dialogue.
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Personally I'd prefer Teshin to be the mission control, also he should voice mastery rank tests so that by the time new players reach Natah they would at least hear about the guy if they never touched the Conclave. Having him looking after us would make perfect sense after The War Within.
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Bumping this thread, hoping this +2 month old bug finally gets fixed.
Modular Weapons - Mechanic redesign since Devs want to "de-grind" grindy content.
in Weapons
Posted · Edited by przemo877
Fixing link
In the latest devstream, Developers mentioned desire to de-grind certain aspects of the open world syndicate economy. My personal biggest issue when it comes to grindy content of those syndicates are "modular" items, because IMHO they are modular in name only. Currently those items work in such a way where new players are encouraged to search for meta builds in order to lower the grind and time spent on assembling those items, effectively killing the discovery aspects of which parts are preferred for individual playstyles and bigger builds.
How do we solve this issue?
Reintroducing the technology we already have and are using right now:
Proposed Solution
Forgive me my poor photoshop skills, I also hope that link will work properly, because it's been a long time since I've posted an image on the forum.
In my proposed solution you could exchange parts like Grip or Loader same way you can change incarnon evolutions as long as you have those parts prebuilt. If for example you want the part "Splat" to be installed on all your 10 kitguns, you'd still need to build that part 10 times, but you'd no longer need to construct, gild and farm exp for 10 different Tombfinger kitguns only to test and see what's the best part stat combo for the weapon you want to use in the future, overall same result, but less grind. Hopefully I'm not the only one that wants this game mechanic changed to work in more convenient way.
P.S. It could also work for Zaws, Moas, Hounds and live Deimos pets if you remember that they are evolvable infestations and the game lore have lots of genetic manipulations.