ObsidianG
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Posts posted by ObsidianG
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2 hours ago, TheSixOfDiamonds said:
OP, by any chance, have you used Inaros? You want to chat about immortals, he's the only frame that's so tanky I can't figure out how to build him. The only "challenge" for him is getting Covert Lethality. After that, hold 4 until maxed, and occasionally press 1 to open a finisher, restore what 25% of your health, and instantly kill anything that isn't a boss and affected by pocket sand. Healing back to 100% takes at most 4 stabs, and his armor is astronomical compared to other frames with that buff. Yes Chroma can reach similar levels (maybe Nidus? haven't built him yet), but this is more or less out of the box, b/c you will likely stack Armor and Health due to him having literally 0 shields. I did this with just range, maybe duration (i forget), and soon after saved him for all but the hardest content I bother running.
There are many frames that can trivialize a large part of the game, well into the 70+ level range, and that's okay. The thing that has me play Warframe is the fact it plays like old school Unreal Tournament and rewards you for it.
Also, I don't hate you, you just have an opinion. Mine happens to be different, and that's okay.🙂
In fact, I main Inaros. This very sentence will cause people to call me hypocritical and perhaps that's what I seem like. But you, and other people on this post that have actually read and understood my post, might be willing to have a conversation.
I can't deny anything you said about Inaros, the thing is that's all he does. Inaros is a solo tank frame that is immortal but that's it. He doesn't help the team in any way besides being tanky ( other tank frames can also help a team ) so even if he's unkillable and can sustain damage from level 100 enemies, he lacks a lot in damage and utility which makes him a sub optimal pick for as we both said, trivializing endgame content.
Chroma can get just as unkillable while also stacking damage and buffing allies, same for Nidus.
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20 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:
Any game anywhere is gonna have people that are called "min-maxers".
Here's the crazy part: if trinity and rhino weren't in the game, you would still have people maxing other frames to their full potential and "breaking" the game.
From a new person's outside perspective: you guys have a freaking gun that plants a homing beacon and let's you blast a buncha rounds right into that same spot, negating the need the even aim.....are you serious right now lol?
There's no one aspect of a videogame that makes things "broken". It's almost like a hugely multi-faceted issue that isn't completely black and white.
I've seen more threads about Condition overload than anything.
I think I have stated in my post that I do not consider Trinity and Rhino the only problems.
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2 hours ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:
People can just buy Rhino, though. What about them? I feel like your just gatekeeping here and you just don’t want to play with people you feel are noobs.
That is entirely their option. I don't think it is relevant for this topic to count in people who buy frames or mods that are normally obtainable through gameplay since the act of buying already implies bypassing the normal progression. I was strictly talking about the normal progression of the game.
And my point wasn't that because people advance so quickly, I get to play with noobs and I don't like that. My point was that by offering such a strong warframe so early, people will burn through the content much faster which means they will get bored faster. Moving Rhino to the end part of the starchart progression would be better in my opinion.
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21 hours ago, snowpreacher said:
Trinity is the true Phoenix bird, she always rise from the ashes 🙂
Whatever you do to her, she will always find a way to shine ....
But does she really hurt game?
I mean you have zenurik for energy and arcane for health regen.
Focus trees and arcanes that offer energy or health are not instantaneous and take time for each individual player to get them decent or even maxed. Their purpose is completely defeated by having a frame that does this for everyone with the press of two buttons.
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I will probably be stoned to death for what I will say in this post but I haven't heard this opinion anywhere and I want to put it up here with the risk of becoming the most wanted Tenno.
Trinity and Rhino are one of the most problematic frames in the game and their design hurts the game.
First, our beloved Trinity. If I were to make a tier list Trinity would be S++++ because she trivializes the entire game. A support that makes the entire team unkillable and offers and endless supply of energy, both actions done with the press of two different buttons, it's not good in my book. People have been asking for a challenge in the game, well you can't have challange in a game where one character just keeps the only 2 resources the game wants you to manage maxed. She makes nuke frames beyond overpowered because they don't have to manage energy and positioning and movement are stuff you can forget about when Trinity anyway heals you to max with one button. The only workaround DE has found is the ability negating mechanics which everyone hates as they only make things annoying if not anything else. Not to mention, other support frames fall flat in the face of Trinity because none can offer what she offers, the only one close to Trin's level of support is Harrow but Harrow actually needs some skill to play effectively and actually help the team. It's not rocket science but it's more than just pressing one button.
With this said, Trinity needs a rework. I'm fine having a general purpose support that has as main perk replenishing allies resources but this must be done in a different way. Healing an entire team to full HP and shields must be something hard to pull of and keeping everyone's energy maxed must again be something difficult to do. I don't have any ideas for this said rework, but I know it's a must if there's any chance of having challenging content in Warframe, ever. Anything they pump out will always be made easy by having a Trinity in the squad.
Now, onto Rhino. I honestly don't have that much of an issue with Rhino. Sure, he suffers from the same one button win syndrome but at least his one button just buffs the damage of everyone which isn't so bad. His iron skin could be made to function like Nezha's shield in my opinion since just straight out invulnerability to X amount of damage isn't ok at all. My biggest problem with Rhino is how he is obtained. For most new players, he is the second warframe after the starter and this is a huge issue. In the hands of a completely new player you give a frame that cannot die and has one of the best buffs in the game. Guess what this leads to? That new player skyrocketing through the rest of the starchart because they can't die due to iron skin, while also having a window to most high level content. Some strength, some duration and all new players are ready to go into pretty much anything with a buff Rhino build. So in short, my issue is that the game gives such a powerful frame like Rhino too early and too lightly. I don't think Rhino needs any substatial nerfs besides the iron skin change I mentioned but I do believe he should be put further into the game. There's absolutely no logic in giving a new player an unkillable frame that also happens to be one of the best buffers with little effort from the get go.
With that said, I don't think Trinity and Rhino are the only problems Warframe have and that fixing them will fix the whole game. But I do consider they are part of the bigger problem and it would be best for everyone if DE would look at them. Sometimes it's not only weak frames that need a rework.
I'm perfectly aware I just stirred the entire masses of Trinity and Rhino loyalists so feel free to call me a mental retard if you feel like that's what I am. Most probably this won't get anywhere but I will feel better having my opinion out there.
P.S I know trinity got nerfed before but honestly it didn't achieve anything.
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Just now, (XB1)Skippy575 said:
Considering they literally announced it today, no, nobody has a clue what it is other than what's posted in the thread.
Oh, I thought it was something they talked about before and I just missed it. Thanks!
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Anyone got any idea what that is? I didn't really keep up with all the news from the past few weeks and I just read about it now in the latest post from the site announcing the new update.
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8 hours ago, Loza03 said:
Enemies need buffing in other ways before scaling matters. It doesn't matter now because we can turn off enemies. Difficulty without challenge.
Enemies need to be able to resist powers - not nullify, not necessarily be immune to (I mean, in some particularly potent cases maybe) - resist. Like, be able to counteract them or be hindered by but still soldier through. And different enemies should be resistant to different powers.
A shield lancer should be able to protect their kin from the barrage of Mesa's peacemakers and Melee enemies should be able to pierce her CC-ing Shooting Gallery to make Shatter Shield's vulnerability to them matter. Fast enemies should be able to resist Limbo's stasis and Flameblades - who do use the rift - should be able to as well. Robots should be able to shrug off attacks that hurt organics, like poisons.
In the same vein though, enemies should have special vulnerabilities to weapons and other powers. Atlas or Loki should be able to pummel Shields out of Shield Lancer's hands. Limbo should be able to inhibit the powers of those that enter his rift, like Manics losing their invulnerability phases. Robots could take extra effects from attacks aimed at the mechanics of weapons as they are themselves mechanical weapons, or be disrupted by Mag's pulses as it causes EMP effects on them.
Make enemies a part of the combat system rather than crash test dummies that shoot stuff. Only then will how hard they are matter.
I like this idea, it would make the game more fun and it would also make the choice in weapons/frames more meaningful and it would add a lot of depth to the game.
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10 hours ago, Lutesque said:
You can't have it both Ways.... you cant have a mode thats going to limit players based on gear and still say it should depend on Player Skill.... im pretty Sure Waframe has been trying this over and over again.... and its not working for obvious reasons...
If you want it to be skilful then what you bring shouldn't matter. It should be what you do and how well you do it....
So the Rewards at Higher Tiers give you more Power ?
This is How Warframe works already and its not going to satisfy the try Hard Difficulty Nuts who think these game modes are too easy (Because it never occured to them to not use those Powerful Items).
Again, I have no idea what would satisfy players that just have all the best stuff in the game and can just trivialize anything that would be somewhat difficult.
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8 hours ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:
mostly armor scaling needs a change. the armor makes all the difference, lvl80 grineer are an absolute nightmare, but compared to that lvl80 infested are really easy. and if you want an "endgame mode" with higher levels, you could make it so that players can manually heighten the level of the enemies for a drop chance/xp boost or something (similar to how endless relic scaling works). so lets say you set your "level boost" to +10, you'll get a 25% drop and xp boost, +20 would be 50%, etc. 25% for each 10 levels. and those 10 levels are on top of the regular level of the mission. matchmaking with that might be an issue though. since it'd be a pain for newbies on mercury to be matched to people running level boost +50.
Maybe the maximum level boost you can apply should be tied in with your mastery rank? This way mastery rank would make much more sense.
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9 hours ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:
this is already a thing to a certain extent. its most obvious in the jordas boss fight, where going in alone drops the boss' level by like 20 levels (from 60 to 40) and not bringing a full loadout also lowers its level. i once got it as low as 30. which allowed me to easily 5 shot it with my velocitus.
as for your other idea, and its kinda a complete overhaul that i dont see working. as theres more fundamental problems with enemy scaling than "their level". mostly with armor scaling. in the current game, if something like what you're saying would be implemented to a larger extent than it is now, it would just result in people figuring out how to bring down their "strength" stat as much as possible (since it'd require a number behind the scenes to convey how powerfull your current loadout is, people will try to minimize that without actually lowering how powerfull they are).
8 hours ago, Leyers_of_facade said:Some of what you said sounds good theoretically, but I would guess that practically it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to implement.
For starters, how does the system detect your "power"?
A long while back, there was a value attached to each mod that can more or less allow the system to calculate your concave value (it is like ages ago, I think this was removed around U14 (+-2 since my memory). This could possibly work assuming they fixed it properly and garbage mods get a lower value (why would sure shot have a value of 50).
At least, that could be what you think. Now let's add rivens into the equations, suddenly it starts to fall apart.
Do we assign a "power value" to every riven? Lets not talk about the implications of such on prices as it is obviously going to be an issue. How do you "value" the power of a riven? Many rivens have a "break point value, the typical case would be shotguns and 100% pre multi status", do we make it so that rivens who reach that point have a significantly higher value? Assuming someone has to manually add in a function that considers the break point of every such weapon, it would be a massive amount of work. How about stat-sticks? The weapon would still be really useless but if the player is using khora / gara or someone who benefits highly from a stat-stick, what should the power be?
Lets assume we actually manage to solve the issue with rivens. Or perhaps rivens are banned from this "endgame" mode.
Now, the power level would have to consider all your weapons (otherwise, if it only considers primary, we can just take a strong secondary + melee, similarly for other cases)
Assuming we take the raw sum of the 3 weapons, well what is there to stop players from taking their best primary, and not take anything for secondary / melee? If it is required for players to take all 3, what is there to stop someone from taking say... a unmodded mk1 kunai and mk1 bo?
Assuming we take the average of the 3 weapons (or the average of the number of weapons equipped), well same case, strong primary + mk1 bo and kunai.
Implementing a lower limit for all 3 weapons would make the case slightly better, but players would still be able to mod such that they are only at the bare minimum of the barrier.
Yeah that makes sense, not only that now I realize that this would force people to play a certain build that is both low enough in terms of "power level" and good enough to deal damage. But how can enemy scaling be fixed?
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Ok so, I just wanted to post these ideas somewhere and maybe get into discussion with some people. Probably what I'm thinking it's very bad but it's still an idea I have never heard of personally. I was thinking what could make Warframe truly better? What could solve the problems of the game related to enemy scaling, engame content, etc. and going on this like on thought lead me to this weird idea of mixing World of Warcraft and Grim Dawn.
Hear me out:
It doesn't matter if you don't know what Grim Dawn is, the idea is that enemies in that game scale up with your level, so the stronger you get the stronger the enemies get. This could tie in with a sort of ilvl mechanic from WoW. I'm not saying add ilvl to warframe, but another system that could quantify the power of a setup and enemies you face in a mission scale up based on that number. This way, the stronger you are the tougher the enemies get. This could create some problems tho when it comes to playing with other people, if you, the veteran play with your friend who barely started.
This leads to my second idea, let's say that in order to not break the game and allow people to still enjoy a lower level and not force everybody to face the strongest enemies, starchart, sorties and onslaught could remain the same in terms of enemy scaling. For the moment, arbitrations might benefit most from this change. If raids would be brought back we could really tap into some of that mmorpg endgame stuff. A good raid system that would require people to have certain loadout power could serve as a good, sustainable endgame. Sure, these raids must be well designed and to be made in such way that not only sheer firepower is needed, but also knowledge of the game and the skill of the player. Since we are on game modes, a nice change to Onslaught would be to remove the efficiency and instead make it like a score or reward multiplier. The more you keep your efficiency up the better the rewards.
And now we touched the sweet spot. Rewards. It's pointless to have these systems and scaling and difficult missions if they don't offer rewards that motivate the player to go forward. I will stick to the raid idea for the moment and let's say these raid have different tiers of difficulty. The rewards could start out as very simple but useful: good amounts of endo or kuva, exilus/aura forma bp, potatos, rivens and these rewards could get better with each tier, more kuva or endo, lower tier arcanes, why not inventory slots, fully crafted formas and we could even go to rewards like umbral forma, high tier arcanes, forma bundles and to even satisfy the highest players who would no longer need these, there could be even cosmetics, but very good and amazing cosmetics ( from syandanas, to warframe and weapon skins, all the good stuff to keep a vet motivated to play, I can't think of what to give someone who already has everything). Rewards could be random at the end of the mission but it would very cool if there would be extra challanged during the raids for player to complete for a chance at an extra item. You may ask, doesn't this render the rest of the game useless? Well, not because these high level, difficult raids even if they offer stuff that's already given by something else would have better chances to offer these items.
That's all I can think of for now, if you have anything to add/change/remove feel free to do so. I know what I described might be outlandish and I'm aware it will never see the light of day in game but at least they make for good discussion topic.
Edit: I also believe that Onslaught could be made as an xp farm place, and the game mode itself could have some sort of xp multiplier because people anyway use it only for that. And let's say that instead of efficiency, player would have to kill a certain amount of enemies for the portal to the next zone to open. Since Onslaught is a simulation, you could just have a button in the menu "Exit Sanctuary" when you wish to exit and collect your rewards, and the only way to fail the mission would be to die. This would make Onslaught more of an arena-like zone where you can just go and have fun killing wave after wave of enemies at your own pace.
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This is Svalin, the guardian, the noble, the saint. With Svalin, strength is in the numbers as he is specialized at keeping his allies as well as himself alive in any situation.
Stats ( max rank ) :
Health: 150
Shields: 1000
Armor: 150
Energy: 400
Sprint Speed: 1.0
Passives
SHIELD BEARER -> Any meele weapon that has under 50% block chance will have its block chance set to 50%.
DEDICATION ->No sort of damage can bypass his shields, his shield recharge is reduced by 70% and health orbs affect the shields instead of health. Also, Svalin cannot benefit from overshields. ( if his shield is full, health orbs work normally )
First ability: BUCKLER THROW / BUCKLER CHARGE -> Svalin throws his shield in a direction. The shield bounces between 3/4/5/6 enemies damaging them and knocking them back but also bouncing 1/1/2/2 times of walls.
Holding down the button will charge the ability changing it into Buckler Charge. Svalin gains movement speed over a period of time, up to 25/30/35/40 knocking back any enemies that stand in his way.
Enemies hit by either Buckler Throw or Buckler Charge will grant Svalin stacks of Determination. Each enemy grants 10 stacks, affected by power strength.
( 20 energy )
Second ability: ANGELIC PROTECTOR -> Svalin sends a guardian angel to protect an ally. While under Angelic Protector's effect, the target will become immune to damage for 1/2/3/4 seconds whenever they take more than 350 damage in less than 3 seconds. The damage and time threshold are not affected by mods while the duration of the invulnerability is.
The damage that should be dealt to the target while the invulnerability phase is on will be converted into Perseverance stacks with a 70% ratio.
Angelic Protector can be cast on Slavin himself but it will activate only when Svalin takes 500 damage in less than 2 seconds, invulnerability lasts for 5 seconds. The effect can occur once every 35 seconds ( the duration of the ability will be paused during cooldown, time in which Angleic Protector can be recast for half energy on an ally) and if cast on himself, damage will not be converted into Perseverance stacks.
Only one member of the squad may be affected by Angelic protector at any given time.
( 35 energy )
Third ability: VANGUARD OF THE WEAK -> Svalin creates a protective aura around him, allies in his range will have 25% of the damage they receive redirected towards Svalin. The more allies in the aura, the less energy the ability consumes per second. Also, for each ally in range Svalin's attacks have a 20% chance to spawn a health orb. This bonus is doubled if enemies are hit by Buckler throw / Buckler charge.
The time spent by his allies in Vanguard of the weak will be converted into Dignity stacks.
( 10 energy / second )
Ultimate: IMMORTAL TITAN -> Svalin takes his avatar form, gaining a massive bonus to his armor ( this bonus scales with the existing armor ) while also taunting all enemies that see Svalin and reducing Svalin's movement speed by 20%.
Holding down the sprint button will cause Svalin to send a seismic shockwave with each step, the range of the shockwave being affected by his Determination stacks. The shockwaves will stagger enemies and have a chance to knock them back. This chance is also affected by his Determination stacks. Each step consumes extra energy.
Svalin becomes immune to damage equal to his Perseverance stacks.
Also, the ability will have a bonus 30% efficiency for a duration equal to his Dignity stacks. ( energy cost of the shockwaves is unaffected )
Upon activation all stacks are consumed and Svalin can still use the rest of his abilities but they will not grant any stacks.
( 13 energy / second )
What do you think?
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This is a problem long discussed but I've been thinking that maybe the problem is not how an endgame system would work, but how it would reward players.
I mean, DE could just make a mission, it starts from lvl 500 and idk, that would be the 'challenge' some people look for. There could be traps, restrictions like in ESO, let's face it it's easy to just make a hard mission. The reason to why is not yet done I believe it's the rewards. What could you reward someone able to complete let's say a survival that has a starting level of 700, lasts 20 minutes has nightmare mods or sortie like modifiers and who knows what other S#&$ just to make it extremely difficult. It's obvious that the person(s) who would complete something like this already have if not everything, the best out there, the best frames, the best weapons, mods, what could they be rewarded with?
In a game like Warframe, it would be dumb to give such a high tier player a reward that makes him even more powerful. By my logic, if the player manages to complete 'endgame content' and you offer as a reward something that only increases the player's power there will be a point where even that super mega high level content will become less of a challenge so in the end we have the same problem.
Cosmetic rewards would work either special cosmetics that are exclusive to that or discounts to existing cosmetics tho that doesn't sound good at all.
As for giving the endgame capable players mods, weapons or who knows what other rare stuff that already exists, we could assume they already have them and it's useless.
And if there are no rewards, players will quickly loose interest, that's what I think at least.
Anyway, these were my thoughts, I'd like to see other ideas on this subject.
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I don't even use Life Strike unless it's necessary. If is not, I don't waste a slot with it, I put a dual stat mod or something in it's place.
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Interesting idea.
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That is why I only do solo missions or with friends. Not only for prime farming but in the whole game in general.
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Still fun to see that poor grenier butcher trying to stay only to knock him down again.
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I never farm for anything else than polymer bundle ( for the large team energy restore ).
In rest I only farm what I need, when I need and only how much I need. Eg: Kuva and Nitain.
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I don't see a problem moving around to avoid getting insta-killed, that is exactly what a ninja would do since you pointed that out.
Also, I like the game to be hard, most of my loadouts are usually overkill for enemies lower than 80, and I play mostly squishy frames thus the high possibility of one-shot makes the game a little challenging, at least for me.
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21 minutes ago, Reifnir said:
Mag got nerfed into the ground and currently has nothing to offer that cannot be done better by other frames.
I tend to no agree with that. With a good bubble build + lanka or mara detron clears rooms in seconds. Plus it's good against bosses.
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Guess I am a good guy and mostly play Mirage+Simulor alone or when I want to speed run a mission with my friends.
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New powers create new weaknesses. I must say, Teshin's words were never so true before.
Trinity and Rhino need changes
in Warframes
Posted
First of all, I never said Rhino was a perfect tank, I mostly referred to his buff. He is unkillable in starchart, where you don't need all those gimmicks to not die.
Second of all, my complaint about Rhino was about how early he is obtained in the game when put in perspective of how strong he is. Sure, I mentioned I would prefer Iron Skin to function like Nezha's Ward but that's just a matter of personal preference
Lastly, I am not complaining about Nidus because he is obtained much later and much harder than Rhino.