Oppiter

I'd l;ike to reiterate the point of this thread which is that, there are no MAJOR reasons to pick many of the arcanes that exist. And in my opinion, if the context for acquisition of a buff is more niche, the buff should be increased given the greater niche of a buff condition. RIght now, there doesn't seem to be that relationship.

Actually, you're absolutely right. Ill recant my thoughts on merciless vs deadhead. However the major issue remains that, Frostbite, agility, pistoleer, or... i cant remember many of the other names, are simply outshone by the ease of acquisition and the potency of the buff from deadhead and merciless. Unless the intention is to make *non endgame* arcanes, which DE succeeded very well at, then the other Arcanes either need some more umph to be competitive, or deadhead and merciless need to be nerfed.

Personally, i think Rivens stats need a larger gradient towards higher disposition items. as well as maybe some "base stat" buff rolls. I think incarnon being an entirely new weapon that uses the skeleton of an old one is... well it feels like cheating the old weapon. You're not really using the weapon, you're just using the box it came in so you can fit a new cat into it. Rivens at least, make you still use the box. But presently, the riven RNG, and occasionally just trash weapon, makes making Rivens function. The investment for too small an increase seems... meh. however, getting a mid-range weapon, or a straight-up GOOD weapon that for some reason, has fallen on the wayside, is very nice. So... Strictly for use, i think Rivens fix certain weapons going unused because they're forgotten, i think Incarnon is a good remedy to poor effectiveness weapons. again, i think incarnon is kind of cheaty, and Rivens are substantially more efficient for Man-hours. I think adding base stat upgrades as possible rollable stats would be a boon, but i think rivens would need more of a buff than jsut that.

Primary and secondary merciless are best in slot bar none. there is no reason to take any other arcane for damage besides these two, they're the simplest to activate and a potent effect of 360% increased damage with the added bonus of reload speed. if other aranes have a lower, or even equal effect, but a more convoluted, difficult or lower uptime, Primary/Secondary Merciless will shine through and be picked. either buff all other arcanes, or nerf merciless. presently, theres pretty much no contest and simply adding more arcanes that are less effective than Steel Path acolyte drop aranes is just wasted content hours.

I think what im meaning to say is that melee implemented as it is, is borky and not as reliable or easy to use as the flexibility and predictability of input and outcome as dynasty warriors has. reason for ceasing movement, becasue sometimes i want to melee eximus units. Realistically, you have a point that i only ended up thinking about after i posted this, which is that ranged units in DW are far less concentrated than in Warframe. One of the biggest safety nets of DW was every hit had hit-stun on your enemy, so you could combo them nearly infinitely. concerning dying too quickly, i considered that afterwords as well, and that is a good point. However, even now *at least for me* enemies arent dying in a single hit from one slide-melee, so in my minds eye, what it would end up being, would be instead of ceasing moving to attack, you'd carry forwards but you'd carry all the targets you hit with you. so that way you could increase the number of enemies hit per swing, and that would decrease the number of enemies attacking you from across the room. either way, DW version, or normal WF version, is if you are using a melee weapon, there are enemies shooting at you, and its better to be shooting at them or not be shot at. melee weapons arent very good at that, so changing how combos works now for favouring not being shot at is a bit of a wash since neither DW way, nor WF way allows that. not sure if i said it as clearly as ill try to now, but the biggest desire i have for melee in warframe is to be predictably used by the player. no forced forwards movement, if i want to attack one guy, and no forced stationary movement when id rather be moving to the next units. also, power attacks that solve a problem. ragdolling enmies near strikes, lifting enemies to continue a combo, maybe more wepaons with blidns :/ point being, mashing E makes my guy look cool, but thats kind of it. Id like some agency in what kinds of things happen to my enemies, much like in DW. in conclusion, this is a kind of pie-in-the-sky idea and likely will never be implemented however i liked melee in that game; i see WF and DW to be very similar and i preferred DW to WF present melee. thanks for leaving your thoughts :)

As ive played this game off and on for many years, every time i come back, the melee demands me to use it, but using it is just so obtuse O_o. It seems to want to be used like an arena fighter, with timing, directions and inputs, but the game seems to benefit something that's more like Dynasty Warriors. I don't know if the atk-atk-atk-powermove is something thay Koei has bought exclusive rights for, and if they have then this thread can be deleted, however, if they haven't then id like to continue my point. Dynasty Warriors is a lovely game of hack and slash. But its melee is made by the combo system it's built with. After every attack up to a combo limit, you have the option to break the normal combo to add a flashy power attack which does something interesting, that the normal-move combo does not. Since we have things like knockdown and lifted *possible juggle state*, and even a power attack key, it seems right for the picking to have a "atk-atk-atk-powermove" set up. Anyone looking at this can see the problem being, "yeah, dynasty warriors is BUILT around melee, of course it's gonna be good and sound, you can expect DE to put that much effort into redoing something that isn't a massive issue". I totally agree. but id like to offer this criticism anyway as presently, melee looks cool, but could feel better. stances look amazing but very often the forced movement of some move sets are movements I don't want because my target does not move with me, and move me past my target. i don't like this. not even do forward-moving combos require you to be pressing forward to be forced to move forward, which is very annoying and not intuitive if you want to stand and smack something. I reocgnise the effort that would go into this, thus essentially making Melee 3.0, however, i beiieve since we already have a pweor attack key, and a normal attack key, that adding animations to existing animations that have complimentary and predictable benefits to using one series of attacks, atk-atk-powerattack, vs another, atk-atk-atk-atk-pwoerattack could make some melee engagements in warframe feeling more rewarding. hedging: considering so much of dynasty warriros is putting enemies into lock-stun becasue of consecutive hits, there may be a level of inability to corelate the feel of being able to juggle mobs and smash them away, since other people are also interacting with those enemies, and occasionally with their own CCs. Not sure if i should have released this half-baked idea but here it is. Dynasty Warriors has an awesome melee system and works well for that game. I believe it could extend into warframe decently since when in melee in warframe, they're essentially both mob-mowing-melee-move power phantasy games. incorporating purpose to button presses besides level of flash sounds like a positive addition.

i understand the frustration but it seems more efficient to not update what doesnt break things for everyone. finding things that dont work that no one cares about is just one more tick in an update post. If its a fix thats never affected you, you dont really care its been fixed. makes more sense to pound the nails that are high, and grease the wheels that are screeching.

I may be the only one thinking about how anything works in Duviri, and solar system Alpha, but i personally would really like some answers/story we've heard and seen the queens. We've met and seen Granum, we've met and seen Nef Anyo, and the Zealoids, and Phorid, and many other big bads that seemingly come and gone. They still exist, but have lost a duel or two with a few tenno that have come along. What are they doing now? what are their goals? What are they still doing in our normal system since faster than light travel is accomplished with the Solar Rails. Actually what a portion of this thread is entirely meant to ask for is shorter self contained stories that offer content. Sands of Inaros, and Glast Gambit as two examples. I recognise that warframe isnt necessarily a story *Driven* game, however their is a story, and at the moment it seem like you, DE, are adding more and more ends that need tying up. Glass maker, syndicates, Nef, infested talking to tenno, our other self saying hello in the orbiter, the man in the wall, the zealoid, all of these guys seem to have only been introduced without any further story to make them more meaningful as an entitiy in the solar system. Along with shorter quests for certain Maguffins from more people. what id love to see in normal missions is simply that the missio being done isnt simply for the purpose of the Lotus told us to do so. We tenno at this point are essentially swords for hire. So why not allow that to be more integral to the voice prompts at the start of missions with Syndicate characters, or big wigs of the Corpus/grineer factions having us go and do something. You already have all the missions that people could ask us to do, now just make it seem like were mercenaries being hired by different factions to do the work that we have been for the last 10 years, but now for factions that exist and not soley for the Lotus. if you wanted to develop a system that behooves players to choose what faction they want to invest more time into so be it, but really, it just seems silly that the syndicates exist and are only really interested in collecting little knickknacks and wearing a sigil *ladder no longer being a thing but i like having two in a list*. The syndicates could be made deeper. WE had the Glast Gambit, and the Silver Grove, but as good as those two missions were for having talking heads that werent Lotus, they didnt really tell us a lot about why or who we were dealing with. Id love to see some quest lines that are not used for item earning. Tell a short story that is interersting becasue its a story that involves characters you've made. Obviously dont go full bore into the most heated of pasts right from the get go, but you have interesting characters that interract with the world, and since we are a major force in the world, it seems obvious that certain personal matters would be dealt with via our intervention. Love the leverian. I donated some money when i went in last. i figure that that has some tie in somewhere to see how much money is donated to see if people enjoy that aspect of the game, which is clever if thats how its done. I appreciate it. its written well and i like the VA. Last thought befoer the summary and close is; there are so many places that exist and have unique items to collect. Maprico fruit, argon crtystals, namalon, duviri stuff, fish teeth, etc. I'd really like to see more items require materials from multiple places that exist. My reason being is, that if a enw material were introduced to our own world, maufacturuers would attempt to discover if this new material can be used for their own purposes. Two mateirals that have been added and work like this already would be Argon Crystlas, and Oxium. Both of those things make sense as odd materials that are hard, and lighter than air, so using them for manufacturing makes sense. However, id love to see there be more people like Hok, who make things. not jsut refurbish things, that requires materials from specific places in the solar system because of the unique properties of the materials. Summary: Id love to see a more "alive" biome of experience with peopel that reference or ask about things going on in other parts of the solar system. Have the other parts of the solar system known about to denizens of it. Have them make things that involve matierals from all over it, becasue materials are unique and if unique is useful, its necessarry. Smaller updates of shorter quests that let the player discover something about the person giving the quest. Personal, factional, interest, whatever. Maybe even add weapons that are just... Go talk to this guy and he'll ask for materials. instead of needing to make an entire world to have unique things in so the new weapons and such are exclusively made using the local materials *assuming the place isnt actually like an island thats just been discovered, and its mateirals have never been seen, witnessed or used except by the denizens of said place* this all said, DE you've done a great job with how the game is and how far its come. i give you mad props for having done what you have and appreciate your game.