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Zoretor

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Posts posted by Zoretor

  1. 13 hours ago, bottledbob said:

    I disagree. He needs more fleshing out IN GAME. They actually don't need to add anything to his lore, just translate from the wiki back into the game. I'm not after cinematic quests, just a few transmissions from and about him, while doing a few specific "go here and do this" missions. 

    I don't think that is a particularly big ask for every boss. It's a few recordings, and shoehorning the lore into the current starchart. No new nodes, no new mission types, no new maps, no new models, no new animations, no new weapons/items, no new AI, no new enemy types.

    At this point in the conversation I'd settle for fleshed out, relevant and updated Codex entries.

    Adding to that: These entries could be filled out more and more each misison you do on the planet before reaching the Assassination node...

    • Like 1
  2. 11 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

    I want to cite City of Heroes because that's essentially how that game delivered its content (i.e. "here's a reason to go to a warehouse and punch all the dudes"), but even that game's developers refused to do this. Instead, they focused on these overly-scripted, overly-elaborate story arcs with cutscenes and conversations and production values that we saw maybe one story every few months, and for what? You don't need complex fanfare for everything! Just sit down and write 15 stories in that amount of time. Offer a large enough body of content, and your players will care - about the content and about the fictional universe behind it.

    Yeah, I believed, and still believe, The Second Dream should've been the only "big cinematic story quest". The rest could be filled in with scanned lore fragments, more simaris synthesis entries, and further pieces of lore here and there. StallorD's "This is what we know" videos at first were very interesting in that he analyzed even the tiniest details, like the still mysterious "Corpus sigils" that are everwhere, hidden in plain sight. Or these new Nightwaves. That's cool!. And we'll see what the Jupiter tileset rework brings, lore-wise.
    Besides a cool cinematic intro quest (that hopefully establishes things more thoroughly), and the upcoming The New War, I hope DE goes back to "less is more".

    You know, the ol' Dark Souls method of mysterious nuggets of lore here and there, up to you to put it all together, if you're even interested in doing so in the first place.

    Side note: I actually wish DE would concentrate time and resources away from cinematic story quests and onto all other stuff. I always read complaints about open world creating content drought and delaying minor updates, but I prefer that than the same happening because of cinematic story quets, which are a "one-and-done" kinda thing...

  3. 10 hours ago, FlyingDice said:

    God no. Air rolling is a crucial element of rapid movement.

    Which is exactly why I specifically mentioned that the "distance travelled", and I'll add now: momentum, mechanics should stay exactly the same as with rolls.

    It'd just be a visual change.

    Whether you look smaller curled into a ball is irrelevant in this game. Enemies still hit you. What matters is the 75% damage mitigation, which would also remain exactly as is.

  4. 2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

    Thought I remembered you, you made the procedural generation thread as well.

    Yes, everyone in that one who disagreed with you "couldn't see" either. 

    Dissenting opinions don't actually exist, yes? Those presenting dissenting views are just people who haven't realised that what you say is correct.

    This is one of those tunes you want to change, as it's likely to bite you in your bottom.

    Although, that might just be me. :wink:

    Yep, that's me.

    Yep, you're absolutely right.

  5. Figures... people just have no sense of "styyyyyyyyyyyyle". What with all the tweaks DE's doing to further the "cool factor", rolling kinda feels... childish...

    I hope it was clear that the 75% damage mitigation and distance travelled mechanics would stay EXACTLY as it is with the rolls...

    Whatever. *I* can see it perfectly.

  6. 3 hours ago, MagPrime said:

    They have minor introductions though. 

    Going with Sargus again, we know he spends a lot on body modifications ad well as being focused on Orokin artifacts and we have been sent to climate him because he keeps taking over Tenno faction dig sites and taking our stuff. 

    That's a fairly decent premise and introduction to him as a villain and motivation to fight him, all of which is presented in the mission while you're on your way to him. 

    Agreed. And I also agree with these 2 last posters about the boss tauning being kinda like a quest in and of themselves.

    But that's not what I was thinking about when I read the OP's title. What immediately came to mind was: "Boy it would sure be cool to get a primer on the who's who of the universe."
    I'm not sure I'd want an actual full quest for this "chacracters context", or even that these head honchos participate in it. Something like having to play a Mobile Defense at some point previous to a boss' Assassination mission on each planet, where the data you're retrieving is the location and/or dossier on said boss. That dossier would be enough for me as a primer on who this guy is. Ordis would spout some unique lines of dialogue during and/or after this specific Mobile Defense mission.

    Otherwise, it'd be awesome if the new starting quest DE's working on just straight up presents all of the faction assassination targets up front. That would actually cover this issue up perfectly...

  7. 3 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

    Years ago, City of Heroes managed to distil player motivations down to something as simple as "are you a hero or a villain." and left it at that. Anything beyond that point, players could decide for themselves. Are you in this for the fame? The money? The justice? The chicks? Are you, say, an automaton from the beginning of time who feeds on the energy in the hearts of stars and you're just on Earth for a bit to literally cool off? It doesn't matter, because you decide. As long as your actions are vaguely heroic or vaguely jerkish, you qualify as either a hero or a villain.

    Well, but that's kinda what I was going for. Like you say: Warframe doesn't ESTABLISH ANYTHING. That's fine, but at least establish a very general, wide-reaching motivation. In City of Heroes, you're a Hero, so, at least you have that starting point.

    In Warframe, before operators (and cinematic story quests), it kinda didn't matter what you are or why you did stuff. After angsty anime teens were a thing, it became a jumbled mess of limp and disjointed concepts.

    1 hour ago, MagPrime said:

    Personally, I liked that the game isn't trying to make me care about the villains.  

    One of the things that will push me away is someone pushing a character in my face saying "THEY'RE BAD AND YOU SHOULD HATE THEM!!!" when there have been times where I identify with their plight and then do the opposite of what the game wants me to, because spite.

    Right, but still, some minor introduction or follow through (in Vor's case, for example) beyond the boss taunting in Assassination missions would be useful, at least to flesh out the factions a bit more.

    We'll see what the new starting quest brings.

  8. Title mostly says it all: Rolling kinda looks/feels clunky. It sometimes looks ridiculous. But think about Limbo's dash. That thing feels coooooooooooool. Warframe is all about "the cooooooooool"...

    I'd love to see a dash animation (similar to Limbo's) replace roll animations. This would just be a visual change. Mechanics would remain exactly the same as with rolls, like the 75% damage mitigation,momentum in air, and the distance travelled + speed of animation would be correspond to each warframe (like Mirage who has that fast roll would have a faster dash).

    Maybe leave rolling on a few warframes, like, I dunno, Wukong, Atlas.

    Can y'all see it?

  9. I find one HUGE problem for players (new-ish, mostly) to try and connect lore-wise with the "Warframe universe" is that there's no MOTIVATION. No grand objective. No ultimate, solar-system-wide goal that glues it all together.
    Sure, there are mentions here and there of some minor objectives, mostly inside the disparate quests, but there's nothing that makes players go: "This is what we DO! What we're here for!" 
    Quests/any content seems to be based on whatever Netflix show, or classic movie DE is inspired by at the time... and so fleshing out bosses kinda suffers, 'coz they fall in love with other lore, instead of their own.
    I liked the short quests. Bosses should have that. Short 3 mission (or thereabouts) quests.

    In my own head-canon I self-imposed the concept that we're neutral entities of the universe that strive to maintain "BALANCE", whatever the cost. No one side/faction/species is allowed ultimate power. I saw Tenno as oprerators of this one central motivation, led by an A.I.-like superconciousness (The Lotus). In order to maintain balance, the Tenno execute quick strikes here and there to either gather information, gather resources "on-site procurement"-style to craft the tools necessary to forcefully maintain balance, or or to cut short any side that is advancing too much, assassinating faction heads as necessary.
    But then all this I thought before the Tenno were revealed to be some whiny anime angsty teens...

    TL: DR: Without clear motivation, any lore in Warframe is a toss-up. Without motivation, why are you running around slaughtering everything, and assassinating key figures of the factions? What makes the Tenno "the good guys", or "our heroes" (or anti-heroes if you prefer)?
    I agree, there should be short quests introducing the bosses.

    • Like 2
  10. 1 minute ago, Twistedsparkle said:

    I like the proc gen stuff
    never had any issues with it

    I guess I would like to have more random Variables in the tiles but thats it

    also these tiles are not ordered from Ebay Im pretty sure they crafted each tile themselves and took the proc gen into consideration when doing them
    saying that they are somehow "cheap" option makes me pretty pissed off how you are scoffing at developers hard work
    especially when after 5 or is it 6 already years of playing this game I still keep finding cool little details in tiles I have run thousands of times

    *ppffffffsh* Gimme a break.
    I wouldn't be here if I didn't value DE's work. No need to white-knight (a company with corporate interests, btw).

    Yes, the tiles are beautifully hand-crafted. Which is why I'm saying to use them in a pre-designed, hand-crafted layout!

  11. 8 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

    Honestly I prefer these. Sure, I know basically every single room in the game (bar the Kuva Fortress, I really see no reason to play there), but the fact that the layout changes constantly makes thing still stay relatively fresh. If it's just a linear corridor, then I play it, say, 5 times, and I already know everything about it and see no reason to ever return back to it if I don't like the layout. But with procedural generation, the level just stay on that neutral area where you can't like one specific layout, cause chances are, you ain't seeing it again. Same goes for the opposite, it a specific layout drives you crazy, you'll still only see it once and be done with it. So, unless DE somehow hides level designers capable of Dark Souls-like level design among their employees, chances are procedural generation is the best solution.

    See, that's the thing: That's not true. It's not true that you have a "fresh experience" because of proc-gen. Not in Warframe. You're just blitzing through random tunnels, blindly following the waypoint marker. Screw the wall paint. Who cares about that skybox, or vertical space even?...

    You imply that it would be a straight corridor. No, that's not at all what I was going for, nor what I'd want. I said levels would be layed out coherently in the shape of what they represent. To give an idea, think of it like a metroidvania. Yes, like Dark Souls. It's not that hard. You just have to think of a layout, and connect the already existing tiles in an intersting layout, with shortcuts (actual useful vents!), multiple ways to get to your objective, upper and lower decks, verticality, etc.

    Man, it'd be sooo much better. I can see it. You might not, but I can.

  12. 1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

    Given how long it's taking to remake the Gas City tileset, I can't even begin to imagine the time required to redo every single tileset in the entire game to this level.

     

    55 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

    I dont see a problem with proc- generated tiles, never have and probably never will. I also dont see the connection at all between a story driven rpg (Anthem), some diabloesque in space (Destiny), a F2P Battle Royale (Apex) with a horde shooter (WF).

    Those interested in WF may play Anthem or Destiny, but I absolutley see no reason why WF, Anthem, or Destiny should be thretened or competing with a BR game that only attracts PvPers of a very special kind to begin with. It is kinda like saying PoE or D3 should watch out because DotA, LoL and other mobas are out there. Sure they share the isometric view and that is pretty much it.

    edit: Also, non-proc- generated environments get old really really fast in grindy games, because when you've see it once you've see all it has to offer.

     

    44 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

    I just love the simplicity with which you say "go the extra mile".

    DE has needed basically half a year for each PoE and Fortuna (and they spent the other half year developing other content). "Go the extra mile" and redo every single tileset in the game is going to take... Two decades?

    Of course, we all agree with you. If DE could use magic and conjure up twenty years of content just by snapping their fingers, I'm sure they would.

    But, failing the use of magic or of time travel, we have to be realistic. I have rarely seen a thread that proposed such a huge amount of content to be produced just by saying "come on DE just go the extra mile".

    There's not much to re-do. The idea is to re-use the existing tiles. The only added work would be thinking up a layout, tweak some of the existing tiles here and there where necessary for connections, coherence and flow, and that's it.
    I'm not saying re-do all of the tilesets.

    I knew some of you would get hung up on the game comparison. I meant that specifically as an example of hand-crafted environment design, not about gameplay comparisons!

  13. I know, I know, this is a controversial statement, where many will feel that they like "levels to always be different", but I have what I feel is a strong counterargument to that way of thinking, and it is thus:

    They're really not.

    Procedural generation of levels is clunky, incoherent, confusing, and worst of all B O R I N G.
    It makes players focus solely on the waypoint for navigation, thereby mosly handwaving away the craft of the environments.
    Going into these levels over and over and having some rooms shift around does not make it: "Wow, this is a totally new experience!". It's the exact same experience but with the frikkin' rooms shifted around. Period. Big whoop.
    Rooms aren't even rotated! They're always the same! They could't even impleen
    The worst offender is the god damned repeating tiles!!!

    Proc-gen levels are old hat. They used to be a thing (and still are in some "rogue-likes/lites" and such), but now we have games that are kinda competing with Warframe for that "full-time-forever game" space (Anthem, Destiny, even Apex Legends). Those games don't use proc-gen levels, but rather carefully designed and hand-crafted ones. De used proc-gen when they started Warframe because it's cheap and easy, which was fine when they were struggling, but times, they have a-changed...
    We've now seen the potential DE has for hand-crafted levels with the 2 current open worlds (PoE and Vallis), and we know that they have awesome level designers in their midst, what with the already well made tilesets, and especially the upcoming, incredibly good looking and ambient Gas City rework, so there's no doubt in my mind they could simply go the extra mile and make hand-crafted, pre-designed levels that are fluid and can maintain the flow of "ninjaquick in-and-out" mission dynamics, which I think is one of the stronger and more original features WF has going for it when compared to those other games.

    So now that we all agree that DE is more than capable of doing better, here I present how it could be better with pre-designed, hand-crafted levels:

    - Use all the already existing tiles. Create a design for each environment (Grineer Galleon, Corpus Ice Planet, etc.), keeping it as coherent as possible with the shape it would have. Ex: Grineer Galleons could have about 5 floors, in an oval shape when viewed from top-down. Then, interconnet the existing tiles within that guideline, adjusting doors and connections wherever necessary. It wouldn't need to be 1 to 1, but at least give it an overall "feel" of the shape.
    - Make mirrored copies of some of the "connector tiles", meaning mostly corridors (but maybe certain others might make sense to do so as well).
    - Pre-designate multiple insertion and extraction points. Most tilesets already have 2 different extraction tiles. Have 'em both be available at all times.
    - Adjust mission parameters where necessary to adapt them to these tilesets. Ex.: Mobile Defense terminals are all over the level, in pre-designed areas. The mission randomly chooses 1 to 3 terminals that'll need to be hacked, out of all the ones in the level. Defense and Interception missions would be in a room which is already there.
    - Possibility for multi-mission incursions (no, I'm not referring to PoE incursions). A Defection which leads to a Capture. A 1 terminal Mobile Defense which leads to a Rescue. A Spy which leads to a Sabotage. A Capture within a Survival. Etc.
    - Uranus could be interesting in the sense that underwater sharkwing routes could be designed to provide actual shortcuts, giving some use to this painful game system.
    - Gas City and Kuva Fortress in particular could be made to benefit from archwing routes, also providing shortcuts.
    - Hand-crafted archwing missions would benefit greatly, if that specific Archwing Quest (hiding from Fomorian death-ray) and War Within sequences are anything to go by. 

    Important note: The Void, because it functions with it's own laws of physics, or lack thereof, would make sense to stay proc-gen.

    I realize Railjack, or maybe even whatever that Wolves of Saturn thing is, may just change things up so much that some of these ideas are actually implemented, or feasable, or they might become irrelevant. But still... try and imagine the creative possibilities.

    C'mon DE, I know you want to...

  14. 16 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

    Yeah. No.

    Riven mods are the only thing in this game that are actually even sort of unique and good rolls for any particular weapon are the only thing that are actually hard to find.

    Buying, selling, trading rivens is a big reason a lot of people play this game. And if YOU dont like it nobody is forcing you to have anything to do with rivens.

    Seriously? Riven mods are the only "sort of unique" mechanic in Warframe? Oooookay...

    The reason a lot of people play this game is to have fun shooting and slashing hordes of badguys, not to practice stock exchange finances and whatnot... If you do think that's fun, great!. But you do not represent "a lot of people" in Warframe. What you are, is "part of the problem".

    Rivens are a platsink. They add nothing to Warframe but frustration.

  15. 2 hours ago, trst said:

    So Rivens are bad because players are willing to pay other players large sums of plat for them?

    Rivens are more than a trade commodity, y'know, they're mods that have stats and do gameplay related things. I don't see how little Timmy spending 10k plat for a Lanka Riven makes my earned ones "bad".

    Yeah. No. Rivens are an extremely poorly implemented system. I could argue unnecessary. They add nothing. If you want to really really strongly believe that they do add something, well, sure, that's your prerogative, but they really don't. There is no content in the game that needs them.

    Little Timmy spending 10k plat for a Lanka Riven already exposes a huge problem: He just got scammed. From life.

    Rivens should not be tradeable. Only then could we start to argue the gameplay systems side of it and not be hypocrites.

     

  16. The Riven system as a whole is a cancer that shouldn't have been implanted, but was, and it sucks, and everything about it sucks, and the market for Rivens sucks, and you selling 49 or whatever of them really isn't helping.

    Rivens should go away, and come back in some other form, more like Diablo 3. It's a baaaaaaaad system. And it's pointless. And yet kids fork out oodles of their parents' cash to buy them. It's pathetic. Rivens are cancer. Period. You can say whatever, but it's a fact. Objectively.

    The problem is not what you're expressing. The true problem is people's artiificial, deluded reliance on and giving value to Rivens.

    It's just a plat-sink. If you think it's anything else, you're deluded.

  17. I like it that DE is making these open worlds. Vets, in any game, will always consume all new content a.s.a.p. Same for youtubers/streamers and the like.
    I don't care. I consider myself a vet, and that's irrelevant to me. If you want to get bored of new content on day 2 of it coming out, that's your pace. Suck it up.There are other games to play out there besides Warframe, also.

    PoE has brought Warframe into a new light, revealing how many facets of the mechanics of the game work so much better when given wide open spaces. If DE started from scratch today, I'm sure they'd go with open world areas from day 1 (except where it doesn't make sense). After all, they went with randomly generated tilesets bacause they're "economic", program, resource and asset-wise. But there's no doubt in my mind that PoE, and whatever future open worlds, fit perfectly with the gameplay, and should definately be expanded upon.

    To me, implementing open world areas has convinced me that pre-made, handcrafted tilesets would work without changing the feel of the game at all, instead of procedurally generated ones. There are tilesets that would still make sense for them to be proc-gen though, such as the Void (warping of space-time), the Infested ships and Derelict (constantly re-arranging themselves as someone mentioned), the Corpus Shipwreck tileset on Europa (being a maze of ship scraps and tunnels) and the Grineer Asteroid tileset (being a maze of tunnels in asteroids).
    Using existing assets they could simply make a static layout that made more sense than running through the same hallway 3 times in the same misison, with it always curving in the same way, and always having the same details... To me that's ridiculous and immersion-cracking.
    At the very least I'd like DE to remove tile duplication on tileset generation.

    So, using existing tileset assets:
    - Corpus Gas City layout would be interesing, with possible archwing deployment from one structure to another. Neptune could use a modified version of this tileset, just with a few different aesthetic tweaks, as it's also mostly gas.
    - Ceres Shipyards could have an interesting layout as well, also with minor archwinging between some structures.
    - Ships: Grineer Galleons and Corpus Obelisks should be static and pre-designed. Maybe with a few minor proc-gen tiles or details. I suspect we'll see something like this with Railjack.
    - The Kuva Fortress being pre-tailor-made has a lot of potential for more interesting movement/parkour dynamics, and could have more seamless and relevant archwing integration. Yes, it's already pretty interestng in the parkour dyanmics department, but still, could be better. Besides that, it's a really awesome, immersive tileset that I feel would strongly benefit from being hand-crafted.
    - Lua, like the Kuva Fortress, could definately also benefit from being hand-crafted, and implementing some archwing.

    Lastly (but not least-ly):
    - Corpus Outpost tileset could be touched up with the new Corpus materials and assets, and relocated to be the unique tileset for Pluto. It just works. Hand-crafted, of course. Remove it completely from Venus, which kinda clashes now with what the Vallis aesthetic. My own little touch would be to make it just a tad bit darker.

    Yeah... then I'd be finally satisfied with Warframe's "sense of place". That's the thing, these hand-crafted open areas offer that feeling. You probably don't care, 'coz you just want to farm for that resource or new weapon or whatever, but it is important.

    Otherwise, why not just have all of Warframe be played in smooth tunnels and rooms like the simulacrum and be done with it?

  18. Does anyone feel the same way? They were more sinister, like a "digital white noise", like beings trying to scream or shout or say something, but only this violent feedback noise was heard, like something out of place, that "should not be". It was creepy and mysterious in a "lovecraftian" way.

    The fact that all the corrupted factions sounded the same lent more gravitas and credence to the idea that these are all assimilated beings, corrupted, "re-written", "re-coded", by this mysterious, unseen Neural Sentry.

    I could not fathom why the hell DE changed them. It sucks now. Straight up. No mystery. Not at all creepy.

    Change it back, DE!

  19. 18 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

     They're not their own mission types because it's all mission modifiers for existing nodes. The logic behind this is that nobody ever plays those nodes unless there's a fissure, or kuva, or invasion on them. 
     Starchart was completely abandoned before DE discovered this crutch. That's why they want to balance Kuva Survival so it wouldn't yeald more kuva than syphons, so people wouldn't stop playing on those random nodes. 

    Being "mission modifiers on existing nodes" is irrelevant. People would still play the node.

    What I was trying to get accross is that the "kuva siphon/flood" objective would override the regular mission objective. The node would be the same, though. Same tileset, same faction, same everything.

  20. So, I fully agree the whole "spawn enemies in kiss-kiss range" is ridiculous, and your variation sounds good. I would add that each of the 4 kuva siphons "on the way" have the same behaviour as currently, with a butt-load of Kuva Guardians/Jesters and Kuva Grineer guarding them, and that each one is destroyed after just one operator-intercepted kuva cloud, which would still come from a random direction, pointing with it's outstretched arm.

    Also it should be it's own mission type. As I've vehemently expressed in a rapidly forgotten previous post:

     

  21. 13 hours ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

    I really enjoy playing as Titania ...

    Well, there's your problem right there... (j/k... kinda)

    13 hours ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

    Maybe it would, beside the point though as DE tried it and decided not to do it.

    Jury's still out on that one... DE has backpedaled or given in to community feedack before, so...

    13 hours ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

    it's a mechanic from a different type of game.

    Sure. Like the Borderland games. They're not precisely parkour but they do have hitscan enemy shots and the like. Shield gating works fine there. Why? I'm not sure, but that same mechanic applied to WF I can see working fine as well. Maybe there's a minor invulnerability delay.

    And whoever said that the same mechanics are applied universally to all shields, including enemies... nah. I'm not sure, but I don't think so. Even if it was so, they could program it to not be universal, because that's what WF is after all: a computer program.

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