Murph_HKM
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Posts posted by Murph_HKM
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Can we please have the option to just toggle back to the old combos? Or at least let us change what combo is bound to certain inputs.
Tempo Royale and Noble Cadence feel like a hot mess.-
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@SevenLetterKWord hit the nail on the head I think.
Points 1 and 2 heavily exacerbate point 3. Because so few players are left after the first 2 points, the PvP playerbase that is truly dedicated is quite small. So not only does focusing on PvP not make much business sense, but in practicality it prevents DE from ever properly monitoring it. They aren't going to implement a matchmaking system or rating system of any kind, because very few (of the few left PvPing) are going to sit around for 10-15 minutes waiting for the proper matchmaking system.So you're stuck with literal raidbosses (in terms of developed skills) stomping everyone else who isn't up to par. Seriously, every game will have 1 or 2 players that are like 25-2, where the other 4-5 players are a combined 4-50. It's tough to keep playing when you don't even have the chance to improve because you're getting smoked so hard. It's like placing an All-Pro sports team against a team of 8 year olds. They simply have no chance.
And it isn't the "fault" of anyone. The superb players are just looking for ANY games they can get, because the PvP community is so small, and the aspirants have no way to develop themselves outside of the rare game which doesn't have a superb player in it.
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24 minutes ago, Razanzel said:
@Murph_HKM I agree with what you said, however, I think a matching system would be complicated because ; With the current Conclave's "population", the high-skilled players would have a hard time to find worthy opponents that they don't completely annihilate.
Maybe there could be the best of the two worlds. Let's say, a Conclave mode with "dumbed-down" mechanics, to let the players gradually get used to everything, then as you go higher in the rankings, you can access modes where the mechanics get closer to the "real thing". That would be great imo.
Again, I'm more than willing to accept longer wait times and more scarce fights if they're even based.
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I don't know if I'd say the game is "too difficult", but the game has probably the biggest skill ceiling in modern gaming.
And the devs do nothing to monitor the ridiculous skill gap.
I routinely come back and try to PvP, only to run into players like 7LetterKword who have tens of thousands of kills and just instagib me.
I don't have an insane amount of hours to put into the game. I've got like 350 hours in 3 years. I accept that I "shouldn't" be as good as other players who have put in thousands of hours of conclave time.
But I don't want to play with those people. The same way I don't want to play with the uber committed try hards in League, Dota, CSGO, or any other PvP game. Let them fight each other. I'd at least like people who are relatively close to my skill level.
The population who PvPs is small. I get it. But I'd rather wait 10-20 minutes to find 1 person who I can fight at a near-identical skill level than get matched with people I have zero chance of defeating. You can't grow your skill or sharpen your abilities if you get instakilled. -
Really appreciate all the hard work that was put into this, especially with the new VFX and the "weighted" feel of a lot of combos.
But as a melee main I feel like this was a step backwards. I'm sure it's great fun for some people though.
But an option to switch back to the 2.0 system would be extremely welcomed by myself, and apparently others as well.
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I'd say the stance mods, so that you can practice using them and drill out some combos outside of the Conclave.
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Is kind of a huge lol and doesn't really add anything to his gameplay feel.
Why not give him the same boost that Excalibur has (+10% speed and damage with all swords) but have it apply to Heavy Blades instead, seeing as how he is the "heaviest" frame?
You could even keep the shockwave from long falls, as I don't think it's anything to write home about.Thoughts?
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10 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:
Who's talking about mods?
Correct, mods are not needed for success in Conclave.
Correct, MK1 weapons are balanced to be competitive.
This is all good and well.And it's also beside the point.
You will eventually tire of using the same limited selection of equipment.My point again: If a PvP player wants to try out frames/weapons like Nidus, Ivara, the Zarr, or the Euphona Prime, there is often no recourse but to spend money, and sometimes not even that is sufficient.
This is as much speculation as anything I said; there are plenty of players (particularly PvP oriented players) who are completely fine with using the same approach with the same gear and the same weapons as long as it nets them the most important thing in the end: the win. Pretending to know the minds of players doesn't lend validity to your argument. What about in 1.0, when the selection of weapons and frames available was far less than that of what we have now? Did players get driven off by the "lack of variety"?
The answer is no, because there is no variety.10 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:No depth, right.
We've got a simple damage system with one type of damage and no damage effects, players have one form of health and no forms of healing, weapons are wholly lacking of alternate fire modes or passive effects, the mobility system is rudimentary and readily mastered, and - try as you might - there is not a single special ability to be found."copter": I'm not sure what you mean by "copter", because the "coptering" that used to exist in Warframe died with Parkour 1.0 and has not returned since.
"pew-pew": Did you just reduce all gunplay in Conclave to "pew-pew"? Am I supposed to take you seriously now?
"slam attacks and knockdowns": Slam attacks only knock down grounded players. If you find yourself repeatedly on the receiving end of melee knockdowns, I suggest you spend less time standing or walking around.My choice of weapon, be it sniper, shotgun, automatic, or melee, significantly influences how I play and - equally importantly - how I react to players with other weapons, be they snipers, shotguns, automatics, or melees.
Yes, there is no depth. Every single gify you linked only proves my point. Didn't matter if you were using a different weapon or a different frame; you played exactly the same. Spam bullet jump, sprinkle a copter in, pew-pew, abuse the slam attack. Lmao. You literally did almost exactly as I described in every clip. So thanks for proving my point for me.
10 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:Melee can be extremely potent in the right situations, and it's certainly possible to succeed with melee weapons alone.
Given this, reconsider how narrowly you're defining "one approach":
A approach that emphasizes melee is entirely viable.
An approach that consists exclusively of melee - as I have seen you attempt - is frankly just silly and you shouldn't be surprised that it puts you at a disadvantage.
Obviously your opponents will be very prepared to counterplay when you neglect your other offensive options and thereby become predictable.Again, this is an opinion, not a fact. A fact is that approaching conclave and choosing to wield your melee weapon is an approach that is available to the player. Another fact is that it is such a disadvantage that there is almost no reason in doing so.
An opinion is that "it's frankly just silly".Should choosing to opt for a melee heavy approach limit your kit? Absolutely. Should it hamstring to such an extreme degree that almost no one can opt for it, because you cannot animation cancel out of combos and are stuck on a flat surface while doing it? No.
So let's not cast stones from behind the glass walls in regards to "strongly worded opinions".
10 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:Can you get away with no guns and no weapons, only casting abilities?
Probably not, and I'd argue that you shouldn't be able to do so.
But my point remains: there's a vast amount of room to work abilities into your approach to Conclave.Another opinion, and one that most people agree with certainly. However, it doesn't change the fact that certain frames like Volt are marketed around the fact that with them, you don't need to worry about gunplay or weaponry. And there's no reason why there couldn't be more frames that utilize skill-shots for their frame in Conclave abilities.
10 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:Finally, about "a potent alternative to gunplay"...
Let's not pretend that Conclave is beholden to flavor text from PvE.You mean, "flavor text" that entices people to acquire a certain frame because they desire to play a certain way, only to find out the game itself lied to them? Yeah. That's not a big deal at all.
So you'd be ok if the Vectis, despite being advertised as a "high-powered, single-shot, breech-loading sniper rifle" turned out to be an assault rifle in game? Cause, what the hell, we're just talking about "flavor text" here.
10 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:Conclave isn't strictly class-bound. Roles are suggested by equipment choice, and primarily differentiated by optimal engagement range.
Positioning is incredibly relevant, but fleetingly so. You have to be quick to capitalize on opportunities, and you have to be able to read your opponents' positioning.
Again, see above. You've only demonstrated that for all your talk about "depth" and "variety", the gameplay still plays the exact same way.
10 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:Not sure what you mean by "sight-lines". It almost sounds like you're talking about one-way mirrors, which sort of exist in the form of Electric Shield, Snow Globe, and Mass Vitrify. Perhaps an example is in order.
Sight-lines is a reference to a specific point players can hold that enables them to hold a position; the best reference I can think of is something like Counter-Strike, where a player can position oneself to hold a specific angle that exposes most/all of his target, but limits the efficiency in which his target can shoot back.
In short, it allows for players that don't possess the natural twitch/aim/flick skillset to still be effective due to their positioning. Something sorely lacking from Warframe's PvP.10 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:Finally, concerning objective-based game modes: Yes, I would happily welcome a new implementation of Cephalon Capture that isn't riddled with holes and bandaids.
Alternatively, the reintroduction of Solar Rail Conflicts, preferably without the crippling shortcomings of its past, would serve just as well.I'm glad we can agree on something at least.
10 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:Both of those things have happened.
No, they haven't. Else you wouldn't still be here reading threads about why Conclave is extremely dead.
10 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:And you apparently don't need either of those to make some very strongly-worded assertions.
Throwing stones from the glass house much?
10 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:I reference players' Conclave stats to shed light on whether they're providing legitimate, experience-based feedback, or whether they're just slinging around "reworks" from their dream journals.
Here's the latest thread wherein I found this approach necessary.
Take a read and tell me: who's responsible for the "devolving"?Indeed, I did say "you're not wrong in many of these cases." At which point I did say the sheer lack of players is at least worth considering there is some correlation between the current version of conclave and the lack of players playing it. Correlation =/= causation, but it is at least exploring that conclave needs reworks in major areas.
10 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:Of the following two sets of items, which has a greater influence on Conclave's popularity?
Set 1, items around Conclave:
The fact that Warframe advertises itself as a PvE game to PvE players.
A deeply flawed initial implementation of PvP - aka Solar Rail Conflicts - in Warframe. (For example, PvP originally used PvE balancing, which is no balancing.)
A primitive matchmaking system that is simultaneously inconvenient to use and vulnerable to abuse, coupled with a daunting skill cap.
Poor explanation of mechanics and suboptimal new-player experience in Warframe overall.
The Conclave arsenal's dependency on the PvE arsenal, which necessitates that PvP-minded players spend weeks or months in PvE content to progress.WoW is advertised as a PvE game for PvE players too; and yet it still has a gigantic PvP community, tournaments, cash prizes, the whole 9 yards.
The remainder of your arguments would resolve themselves completely if the experience in Conclave was fun to most people. You can trash Destiny 2 all you like (I know I have) but even with its subpar matchmaking system, reliance on PvE for the best weapons, and lack of a ranking system, the PvP mechanics are still 10x more solid than the mechanics implemented in Warframe. Which is why is has many more PvP oriented people playing it.10 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:Or, set 2, items in Conclave:
An imprecisely defined flaw in Conclave's mechanics.
The fact that success in Conclave is dependent upon skill with various mechanics and engagement strategies.The poor mechanics are the #1 reason for the lack of population.
Spending time on a matchmaking system would only further dilute the people you play against. Instead of playing against the same 50-60 people, you'd be stuck against the same 5-10. -
32 minutes ago, SevenLetterKWord said:
That might make it more approachable to a very casual audience, but it doesn't dictate popularity.
Conclave is a PvP game inside an incredibly grind-heavy PvE game.
A PvP-minded player cannot explore the full depth of Conclave loadouts and playstyles without significant investment in PvE.
Allowing for arsenal development through PvP would solve this and boost Conclave's popularity without having to sacrifice its unique identity by mainstream-washing it.Not sure what this is supposed to mean, because Conclave clearly supports a variety of approaches.
1) I suppose this point isn't 100% false, but it isn't 100% true either. I hopped into a conclave match the other day on an Atlas (never played the frame before) a Lato and a newly forma'd War and won the first match I got into. The mods you get in Conclave aren't nearly as important as the ones you need for PvE (in my opinion; this is open to debate). They certainly help, but they're not going to turn you into a mastodon just by having them. And the MK-1 Braton is still one of the most well rounded Conclave rifles, which I believe you still get right off the bat (unsure, only did the tutorial once).
As far as depth goes, there isn't almost any depth in Conclave. It's copter, pew-pew, abuse slam attacks and knockdowns on anyone who stops for half a second, rinse and repeat. I think I get what you're implying (variety between frames and weapons) but I don't really consider "variety" unless it really changes the flavor in how you play. Which it doesn't.
2) Conclave supports one approach, and you saying anything otherwise is just disingenuous on your part. How many times have you posted in any sort of melee focused thread "Sword Alone is a gimmick for PvE noobs"? Guess what? That's an approach. Which isn't viable. How about if you wanted to JUST use firearms, because melee doesn't really appeal to you? That's an approach too. And if you can't copter at all, you're going to get smoked as well. What if your favorite frame is Volt, because you're not really a fan of gunplay or swordplay, and Volt is marketed as a "potent alternative to gunplay" and you like to use abilities to play well? That's a third approach. And it's the third one you'd get trashed in.
The only approach that's supported is the one that you play, and I must admit I believe that's part of the reason why you vehemently defend it at every turn. This style is the Master of All, Jack of none. You need to shoot, copter, bullet jump, and spam knockdowns at every opportunity. It's an extremely high skill ceiling game, much like the games I've mentioned before (Quake/UT) that don't appeal to large numbers of people. There are no "roles" players can fill on their team (Overwatch, CQC, Assault) because the insane mobility renders such roles obsolete. Positioning holds almost no value; there's no way to hold a choke or funnel enemies into a favorable position. There are no sight-lines that can be manipulated for lower skilled players to compete with higher tier players, and there are no objectives that allow for players who have a good "game sense" to still be good players if you don't have insane aim and the ability to twitch. Most players fall short in these skills and end up getting mashed on by better players.Now, maybe with a proper matchmaking system implemented it would resolve all of these issues. But I certainly think it's at least worth considering that the the PvP is lacking players because the PvP isn't good; not that the PvP isn't good because it's lacking players. I remember when Conclave 2.0 first came out and there were literally hundreds and maybe even thousands of people queuing for matches. Every queue was insta-filled. And I spent the day coptering around with my Gram on my Rhino 1 shotting people; I legitimately think I died maybe 5-6 times in several hours of playing.
Have we come a long way since then? Undoubtedly. Have we come far enough to entice PvP oriented players to give Warframe a look? Or seduce some PvE minded players to take a break from PvE to dip their toes in? Not even close.Obviously I don't have numbers or statistics to 100% prove my point. But when you have 50-60k active players per day and at some points there are zero other people looking for PvP, there are serious issues with it.
And I say all of this as someone who rather enjoys Conclave.
I also want to clarify that I didn't mean to attack you or condescend in any way; you're a good player who's obviously been playing Conclave since probably the very beginning. It's just that every thread I see you in seems to devolve into your screenshotting people's k/d and telling them they have no idea what they're talking about. And you're not wrong in many of these cases; however, as stated above, the sheer lack of people Conclave must imply that there is some correlation between the current PvP mechanics and the lack of players. Maybe not a direct causation, but a correlation nonetheless. And I think it's wishful thinking that a matchmaking system would fix everything. -
The only way PvP will ever be popular in Warframe is if they severely limit the mobility and speed of the gameplay, both of which are contradictory to Warframe's overwhelming emphasis on mobility. They also need to nerf most abilities into the floor. In essence, they need to make it a 3rd person version of Destiny.
The Warframe's PvP relates to Quake/UT more than pretty much any game out there. And given the failure of the new Quake and the "new" UT's permanent purgatory developmental status, the mass populace of gamers nowadays don't care for insanely high skill-ceiling, high mobility, constant weapon swap games nowadays. That's why Battlefield/PUBG/CoD have had such success; if someone wants to snipe, they can set up shop and snipe. If you want to do CQC, you can grab a shotgun and push close range on people. You can pick one thing and do it. Warframe doesn't allow that.
I enjoy Warframe's PvP and have a fair number of hours spent in it (though not the 2000+ hours that the OG Conclave members do), but the fact that nobody plays it shows it's not in a good spot. -
Because, despite what those who enjoy the PvP might say (myself included), the PvP currently implemented just isn't good.
The lack of a (pvp) population is indicative of that. Warframe is built around high speed and high mobility; there was a time when the masses did enjoy games that played like this (see Quake/UT) but the current gaming community widely rejects games like that nowadays, which is why slower paced games like CoD/Battlefield/PUBG are exploding with people.If you don't believe me, look at how hard the new Quake has already failed and the "new" UT has been stuck in developmental purgatory ever since it was announced.
In short, I don't think people care for games where you have to "grind" your skill level up; games like Quake/UT and yes, Warframe, have insanely high learning curves to them. Couple that with the fact that in these games, there is one playstyle that is far superior to everything else, and it takes away a lot of the draw of a progression based game. You can't go with a "sniper" style loadout. Or a close-combat, melee oriented playstyle. You need to cycle between every weapon, every ability, and you need to do it all while constantly moving.
Unless they remodel the PvP to play FAR slower (think something like Gears of War) and make abilities have huge cooldowns and remove knockdowns/stunlocking from melee combat, as well as lower the effective ranges on certain weapons, it'll never have a high population.The ironic thing is, if they actually dedicated a sizable number of people to making the PvP more appealing to a broader audience, Destiny 2 would literally lose its population overnight. Warframe does legitimately EVERYTHING better than Destiny 1 or 2; you can see that in the polish the game has and the seemingly overwhelming amount of stuff to do in the realm of PvE; then you load up the PvP and it looks extremely janky. You can just tell they never fully committed to it.
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22 hours ago, SPARTAN-187.Thanatos said:
If Excalibur would be a Master of Blades, then as the Op is asking, a different structure to what the Passive boosts could be established.
So weapons like the Kamas, Zorens and Razas, that fall under Dual Swords can work thematically with the Passive.
Next other weapon groups could be considered as Heavy Blades and even weapons like the bladed Glaives. Heck, I'd even like Daggers in there to give my Fang P or Karyst a small boost, and synergies better if I like to have a Tactical look, going with a Dagger.
22 hours ago, ViolettaFoxx said:Think back to Dark Sector, haha. Proto-Excal running with a Glaive Prime and its own Proto-Skin. I tried this, it worked alright, not bad. Fashion Frame for sure though.
Yeah, I mean, the frustrating thing for me is that as a "sword" themed Warframe, you'd expect him to be the #1 Warframe (or at least considered in the top tier) when using melee combat. But currently there are numerous Frames that outperform him in Melee combat quite a bit (Rhino, Atlas, Inaros, Frost, to just name a few) in both the PvE and PvP portion of the game because by using Heavy Blades, they really completely offset Excalibur's passive.
As Violetta pointed out, you can certainly still use Excalibur with your favorite melee weapon even if it's unaffected by his passive, but it definitely hamstrings you when you get to the mid-high tier PvE portion of the game, and hamstrings you immediately in regards to Conclave.
Again, his passive isn't a gargantuan increase, but if it gets applied to Heavy Blades (and Glaives/Daggers as well) then it certainly gives Excalibur the ability to play a melee oriented style on par with the heavier, beefier frames. -
6 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:
Lemme guess, zenistar?
I didn't have particular weapon in mind in all honesty; as far as Heavy Blades go though, I prefer either War or the Galatine.
56 minutes ago, ViolettaFoxx said:I agree with making his passive universal for all bladed weapons, including the Glaives.
I never even thought about including Glaives as well; that would totally be sweet too!
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Before you scream no, just hear me out.
I get that Heavy Blades aren't all swords, but all Dual Swords aren't swords either.
10% attack speed and 10% damage isn't MASSIVE, but it'll certainly be a noticeable change. However, it isn't going to turn Excalibur into some unstoppable killing machine, but it'll certainly open up some more creativity in his kit, both for PvE and PvP.
Makes him more appealing as a Melee focused Frame, doesn't break the balance for any other Frame, and gives him some more toys to play with.
Thoughts? -
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2 hours ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:
great swords, are atype of pole-arm,....
he has mastery in 1 handed and hand and a half swords (long sword, katana), not in pole-arms
You're either delusional or the cheapest troll I've ever seen. In no way is a Greatsword considered a type of Polearm in any historical reference.
Excalibur's passive is "Swordsmanship". Greatsword = a type of sword.
Therefore, Excalibur's buff should apply to Greatswords as well.
Fixing this isn't going to "OMG EXCALIBUR IS BROKEN", but again, it certainly would be a nice boost to those that prefer to use Swords on the Sword-themed Warframe. -
4 hours ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:
the thing is, great swords, arnt used like other sword types irl
and Excalibur is the name of a single handed sword.....
Please sod off with comments regarding realism.
We're playing a sci-fi game that includes space travel, cyber ninjas, time manipulation, etc.
There's no reason why it shouldn't apply. His specialties are swords. Big sword, small sword, whatever. He's supposed to be the best swordsman as far as Tenno go. -
Idgaf what they call it.
Just make it so my boy Excalibur's passive applies to it. Don't leave him hanging like with Galatine/Gram/War.
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15 hours ago, Ada_Wong_SG said:
That is clearly a nodachi by classification. It can fit into the heavy blade grouping.
I guess the reason why heavy blades is not affected by excalibur's passive is the heavy blades
are already the top par in terms of melee damage, you try add a berserker build
and top that off with excal's passive it would be kind of like using a soma shooting vectis damage without penalty.
Then again based on how katana is a stand alone group despite only 3 weapon, it might be possible nodachi is given a unique group
that is separate from heavy blades, making it possible to benefit from excal passive.I mean he only gets a +10% to attack speed and damage if I'm not mistaken; it's not like it's doubling the efficiency of the weapon, but it certainly does make playing him as a Sword Alone build much more enticing, both for PvE and PvP.
11 hours ago, Chantepleur said:+ wish Galatine (Prime) and Gram will eventually get the passive.
You'll get no argument from me friend. I'd like to see War added to that list as well, since they're all referenced to as a "sword" in their in game descriptions, despite being classified as heavy blades
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Title says it all; it already makes me sad that because they're "Heavy Blades", the 2-handed swords like Galatine/War don't get a buff from the best sword wielding Warframe.
Please DE.Don't hurt my heart any more.
For those that don't know what I'm referring to -
16 hours ago, Nazrethim said:
It's possible. Same happens with Scindo.
Scindo has a nice balance of speed and damage, but Scindo Prime is faster and weaker. But since the Stance consists of strong attacks having more speed isn't as great as having more damage, therefore in practice regular Scindo is better.
Galatine series may have the same thing going on.
22 hours ago, Stormdragon said:That spreadsheet is constantly updated, so yeah, galatine is better than prime. (Let's pray to DE to give us melee reach stats on ui, so we can find out if there's any drawback on using the stock galatine over the prime one).
PS: iirc you're on the conclave discord, feel free to ask there instead since most of replies here will come from the same players there.
Thank you guys for the feedback!
I'll try to ask more questions in Discord. Forgot about that. -
Can anyone verify this for me please? Used the Galatine quite a bit and when I saw that there's a Prime version, I figured I'd start grinding it out. However, I used this spreadsheet to look up the stats and it seems the Prime is actually worse than the original version; I've no way to verify this and I'd rather not grind out 7 more mastery ranks and all the mats for a weapon that will perform worse than its non-Prime self.
Thanks in advance!
New Frames In Conclave?
in Conclave
Posted
Am I doing something terribly wrong, or have the last 5-6 new frames not been introduced into Conclave?