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(XB1)Knight Raime

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Everything posted by (XB1)Knight Raime

  1. We will just have to agree to disagree here then. ^ Word is okay. Just meant that because it's a pretty generic word it can lead to different understandings of the situation. Nezha isn't infinitely worse compared to rhino. Rhino gets total damage/proc immunity with IS. But IS itself isn't an end all be all because it falls off rather quickly making his augments practically mandatory in end game content. Where as Nezha's warding halo doesn't grant damage immunity nor status immunity. But because he can be damaged he can take advantage of things like adaptation or arcanes. Not the only comparison that can be made between the two but it should be good enough to explain why one isn't strictly worse compared to the other. Hunts were one specific example. I was referring to the boss fights DE has been adding because there isn't really any other pinnacle content I can think of that would be really hard to do with most of the frames in game. Like, arbitrations are about the only one I can think of. And even then things are not as strict on what you can play with as something like hunts. I would ask of you if you can give me an example of end game/pinnacle content that you believe Hydroid struggles to be decent at so I can hopefully have a better picture on where you're coming from. As neat as that would be i'm a lot worse when it comes to debating verbally. I don't ever give myself enough time to properly think through everything and I don't know how to condense my points. My friends who do discuss with me end up going in a loop a few times till I feel like what i'm saying has been properly communicated. But yes, for the most part we have agreed this entire time. Peace.
  2. It's true that most people prefer to have a powerful feeling. Power fantasy games are a thing afterall, so your logic is founded. But yes, I don't want power creep which is why I think trying to make frames "meta capable" as a goal is a bad one. Power creep. Dunno how to say it any other way. Thanks for the clarification, originally it came off a different way hence my hostility. Even if you were attempting to simplify your statement I would have appreciated a lengthier one in this instance. Especially when we're using pretty open ended words like "bad." As Warframe's current base design is I don't think it's possible to make frames like hydroid to be good enough that you'd want to take him into say eidilon hunts without drastically effecting how he performs else where. Theoretically speaking if there could be some middle ground to increase the viability of a frame in pinnacle content without making them a must pick for farming content then sure, by all means go for it. I just don't think that's possible given current mission structure, enemy design, and frame designs...at least not for all frames. I'm not assuming malice here, just the way you word some of your responses or chosen verbiage can come with negative attachments. I tried pointing them out to help you potentially see this so we can avoid further issues. I don't know what you mean by "get together." I don't play on pc. And I haven't touched WF on my console in months because i've effectively quit the game. So you'd have to be a bit more clear on that request.
  3. I can agree that a goal to strive for is to have a better baseline standard of frames. I can't agree that we should be striving to make hero's meta capable. I don't think of the word meta as a negative thing. As I feel like i've mentioned before I do think it's 100% fine to have "best of the best" things. I just don't think Meta based things should ever be the critera of change for other things. Saryn and octavia are both meta frames at the moment and both are frames I personally would not pick as a goal to work towards for other frames. In my mind we should be shooting for more heros Like Excalibur, Harrow, and Nezha. I'm fully aware of people who play optimally. I don't know how many times I have to restate this. The mindset of playing optimally isn't the problem. It's when you try to superimpose that frame of mind on the game to make changes. There is nothing wrong with wanting better frames. There is something wrong with calling something objectively bad because there is a better frame. And your opinion is also completely subjective. This is a discussion not rehashing facts for some kind of document. Pointing this out doesn't do your argument any good and is an example of what I dislike about having a discourse from you. "if someone thinks a frame is bad they won't play them and I think that's bad." That's far too black and white to have any sort of healthy view about the game. You're not wrong for having your opinion. You get into the wrong when you try to change the game based on optimal play alone. What do we do? Uh. We actually discuss the thing. We don't immediately make changes. As I said. I think Warframe choice should be akin to side grade changes. That way choice matters. If we only go by what is best then player choice is lost and thus things become boring from a design standpoint because power creep comes into play. I noted that I do not play in pinnacle content for reasons. One because said pinnacle content isn't really relevant for most players. And two because the game is primarily focused around farming things that are not pinnacle content. So if hydroid is comparable to other cc frames in regards to farming then I don't feel the urgency. I'll restate. I think having a better baseline for what warframes should be like is something to shoot for. I think trying to shoot for meta defining design is a mistake. Ideally Warframes should be picked due to playstyle preferences and/or side grade that way player choice is relevant and important. To give an example of "side grades" since i've mentioned it a few times i'll give you a few pairings so you can hopefully understand my point better. Nezha/rhino. Excalibur/Baruuk. Oberon/Harrow.
  4. If you're specifically asking me if I think all warframes should be meta/best then I can't answer that. Because it's completely unrealistic to try and make everything the best. Something will always be better than another. I think choice is important. I think someone should choose a frame to play because that frame does something that could be compared to a side grade. I don't think people should be picking frames purely on what is considered the best. I have made zero assumptions of you so i'd ask that you'd refrain from making assumptions about me. You didn't do what I asked of you. Which was to give me a standard of a hero that isn't currently meta. I asked this to establish a baseline of what you believe is a good designed warframe because this will help me understand what you want better. I specifically asked you to avoid picking a meta frame because what is "best" isn't always what is "healthy" for the game. Since you gave a for honor example I can equate this to Nobushi for 4v4. She's S tier in dominion on her own for very bad reasons. So if you'd picked a "nobushi" for your warframe example it would make it hard to establish exactly what you think is a good design. Does this make sense? I didn't say that it was bad that Nezha was compared to Rhino. What was bad was that Nezha was considered bad BECAUSE he was a worse rhino. As i've already stated a frame doesn't need to be the best at what it does in order to be a good frame. You'd have to ask the person who reworked him. afaik that guy does reworks entirely based on what he feels like doing. Not because of community opinion/influence. There is nothing wrong with wanting to play optimally. The issue arises when you try to invalidate things in an empirical matter just because it's not optimal. You're completely misunderstanding my points in an aggressive manner and i'm going to stop responding if you can't actually take what i'm saying at face value. Just because I do not do things like eidilon hunting or orb mother fights doesn't mean i'm ignorant about what does and doesn't work well at that level. You should stop assuming things about me. It's irritating. I personally like the fact that there is content in warframe that not every frame/weapon is good at. It means loadouts are actually important to a degree. For honor struggles because it's built on a flawed battle system. Not because the developers are clueless about hero design. that in itself is a seperate issue. And they absolutely should ignore balance for duels if they don't plan on addressing the games base mechanics ever. Because as is in order to make a hero truly viable at high level play in a duel you have to absolutely over tune them. What i'm getting at is that in nearly every piece of content in the game Hydroid can compete just fine with other CC frames. What i'm getting at is what I already stated. That he has issues that should be looked at. I just don't think he's as bad off as you believe. And I certainly don't think he should be worked on priority wise over any of the frames that I already listed. You're being needlessly confrontational just because I didn't 100% agree with you. you already asked me this at the start of your reply.
  5. i'd be perfectly fine if DE halted production of content to make every frame more polished and addressed/fixed the games core flaws. But that's not going to happen because warframe isn't dying and the devs are apart of a company and companies need to make money.
  6. Not entirely. I don't believe kits need to have built in synergy to be considered good. Rhino and frost are both good examples of that. I'm merely stating that it's a good thing to have. I think Hydroid's kit works well with itself. He's kind of a lock down specialist. Using his 1 and 4 to keep enemies locked down in a big area or spamming his 1 a few times at a choke point to slow it. His puddle also does this and allows you to suspend high enemy threats by grabbing them into your puddle. Similar viability =/= meta tier. It would help me understand you more if you could point out a frame that you think is a good example of what other frames should be like and it's not a meta frame. I never have made excuses for issues he has. I merely stated I enjoy his kit right now and I don't think it's in dire shape compared to some other frames. I'm perfectly okay with making adjustments like changing what stat his puddle's size is determined by or making his passive something actually useful. Giving him an overhaul level of attention though is something I don't think is required. I can't really agree or disagree with that statement as that requires me to have the mindset of optimal play of which i've never cared for. All that matters to me is capability. In my eyes Any mission you'd want to bring a cc based frame on I think Hydroid performs just fine in. Providing that you don't care at all about finishing in a specific time. The fact that I can go into say, interception with another group of people who are also playing sub-optimally and we don't struggle to hit the full rotation before bouncing out mean's hes fine to me. I don't really play any of warframe's "pinnicle" content beyond arbitrations and the occasional sortie. In my prior post I didn't state anywhere that comparing frames is wrong. My specific problem is WHAT people do with that information. A good example is pre rework Nezha. He was literally a slightly worse version of Rhino but faster. And that was fine. But people always thought he was terrible. Am I saying I didn't want him to be reworked? Of course not. My point is people spread sheet the game too hard. Practically nothing in the game requires that level of efficiency unless you're specifically trying to have the newest content as quickly as possible. This doesn't mean frames should never be looked into if they're viable. It means that people shouldn't discard another frame JUST because a better frame exists. I'm not saying Hydroid is fine as is and if I meant that my opening statement to the thread wouldn't have been "hydroid has issues." What issues he might have and how much he should change based on said issues is where we will not see 100% eye to eye. We both agree he could use some love. I personally believe that other frames deserve the teams attention first.
  7. I'm pretty awful with words sometimes. The first time I use the phrase i'm trying to say that the wording is a bit misleading. And the second one you're right on. No when I say viable I mean viable. The parameters on what is considered viable is just different between you and me. I'm not sure what is confusing about that statement. There are other frames that actually struggle to have a cohesive thing going on. Where as Hydroid is perfectly fine where he's at as a cc machine. The reason I mentioned the "meta tier" thing is because it's quite a common site for me to see people saying x frame needs to be better because y frame does what x does but better. Or makes x frame irrelevant. Basically I don't believe a frame needs to be the best at what it does to be considered relevant/viable/etc. (hence meta tier.) Wukong, Revenant, Chroma, Titania, Nyx, Ember, Vauban, Mirage, Atlas, Valkyr.
  8. I think the high level content thing is a bit on the nose. Any frame can do perfectly fine in any content. Thus you're meaning because Hydroid isn't efficient at high content you're not having fun. But that's a bit on the nose because CC frames in general are not efficient in this DPS era. I do care about how every frame performs. I just don't think we need to push every frame to meta tier to satisfy people who main a certain frame. As I already mentioned he does have issues. But there are other frames that are far more deserving of attention currently compared to hydroid.
  9. Revenant was DE Reb's frame. She didn't do any of the actual work of making said abilities and what not. But the concepts were all her ideas. I forget who specifically helped her make him. But Steve had little involvement evidence by his genuine surprise about him when he was shown off on a dev stream and him interveining to give him a new 4th that was more eidilon like. Basically response was a tongue and cheek response at the fact that Revenant is poorly designed because the person behind his inception doesn't have a solid grasp on fundamental design for the game.
  10. Temper your expectations please. They did nothing with Equinox's prime release (iirc.) And they barely touched on a few other frames post prime release.
  11. Because Revenant was designed by someone who would write fanfic. Not someone who actually understands design.
  12. While hydroid does have issues I wouldn't consider him to be bad. I find lots of fun with how he currently plays. I love how much more his gameplay is focused around puddle. And I also find it endlessly fun to spam his 1 and keep my 4 out for chaotic cc.
  13. I honestly had a very time trying to read what was said because you were implying Mag was bad.
  14. I don't consider sacrificing my entire energy pool and speccing specifically for the buff to be considered great. Even if it didn't cost that much energy and investment build wise I still wouldn't be fond of it. They could have taken her 4 so many other directions but they instead decide to give her a boring damage boost for a frame that's not even thematically about killing enemies.
  15. wdym? Having allies drain your entire energy pool for a meger buff on a frame that's not even meant to be a weapon platform is totally a great design! /s
  16. I'm tired af. It's like 7 in the morning. So I didn't quite get your initial post. Apologies.
  17. My point is that even if the daggers were not bugged on giving DR to allies it would still be semi inconsistent DR for allies because said daggers could choose to attack an enemy over going to an ally. I really just wish you had more control over the daggers.
  18. Unless they stealth fixed it they've never given DR dude. And there's nothing stopping the daggers in that range from seeking an enemy over an ally.
  19. For me it's really just how he ended up playing out. Like many others I expected having to use my abilities to bide time until I drained my meter so I could whip out a really unique exalted to get a "power trip" fantasy going. Unfortunately that's just not the case. Instead Baruuk is basically just a DR/CC tank. Which isn't "bad" per se. But not really fun. CC isn't really desired when killing in mass is just better. And survival isn't an issue for any frame these days. If I wanted a gun platform i'd be playing chroma or Mirage. I wanted Baruuk for the exalted and it just doesn't add up. My current favorite Exalted is peace makers for the auto aim and sheer RoF. But even that's boring unless i'm using waltz. I'd love to use Valk's exalted more but even with an efficient build I can't use it as often as i'd like to. So I'm kinda out of luck with melee exalteds for the time being.
  20. Desolate hands does not give allies DR. Never has. Even if it did you'd likely have to follow them around for a significant time so they can nab enough daggers to get decent DR.
  21. Saryn should change when the game is no longer about efficient mass killing and is more focused on coop/group play. Saryn is only dps queen for ESO and even there she can be subbed out for equinox. Any other mode other DPS frames can compete. And frames like octavia flat out replace her when it comes to boss fights. No other mode requires frames to kill as hard as she does.
  22. I've said it before and i'll say it again. If Harrow's allies are consistently killing enough enemies that Harrow is actually starved for kills they don't NEED his energy. You can mod your harrow to get 1-3 kills and basically refill anyone's energy. it's highly unlikely that Harrow will never get a few kills here and there unless you're playing with an AoE nuke. In which Harrow isn't needed. Literally the only change I think Harrow should give to allies is his RoF bonus he gets for sacrificing shields. He already aides his team plenty with his ultimate. If you wana be a battery for your team play trinity.
  23. In your opinion. And you're missing my point. I'm perfectly fine if auto aim went. So long as they made the exalted experience interesting. The only reason Dex pixia is even entertaining to me is because i'm flying around. If all I did was walk around shooting peace makers like they're normal guns with mesa's current state she'd be boring. Which is why I suggested maybe giving her combos. If I wanted to use stat sticks i'd be using them. I play mesa specifically for the experience of auto aim. Asking me to ditch that with zero compensation is a joke.
  24. Literally the only way i'd ever except a non aim bot version of peacemaker is if she had actual combos with her guns. Aim bot is specifically what makes it feel interesting and not just stat sticks. Personally Mesa became a lot more fun for me to play once I started using her waltz augment.
  25. I feel like DE is often caught between what they want us to experience versus wanting to appeal to our desires. Or a more apt phrase "DE might spend too much time thinking of if they could, rather than if they should."
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