Clowee
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Posts posted by Clowee
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I read the wall of text.
OP for President plz.
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I enjoy the game a lot less now.
I liked to just be able to hop on, run a 20-40 wave T3D or whatever else i felt like, maybe get some nice loot and log off. It was quick, fun and relaxing and I didnt have to play missions or tilesets that I didnt enjoy.
Now it's like do the same fissure mission over and over again on a tileset that sucks, or hope the fissure is something I have unlocked and don't have to traverse several missions I have no interest in playing just to run a mission I really dont want to play to get a prime part which is still just as RNG as before (I ran 20 keys to get the onadata prime bp - dont want to hear about how RNG is magically gone). I've had 3 groups today just give up on looking for the fissure, either that or it didnt spawn. There's nothing more fun than running around an empty tileset for 20 minutes.
We sort of lost our freedom to play the maps/missions we want to play when we want to play them - limiting factor of keys excluded.
New void sucks so far for me. I'm hoping it gets more interesting fast. Adding an extra component to a RNG boring mission doesnt really improve things much, even if you can spend 100 void traces on a relic for a forma bp...
It's a shame they dont just merge the two systems. Keep the old maps and void missions for those who want to be grind fiends at the mercy of RNG, and allow the new fissures also for those who prefer the current system. Nobody really loses.
I miss my T3D 40 wave runs :(
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I dont mind a good limbo in the group. It's not my favorite frame to group with even then though.
The problem is there's so many bad or intentionally bad ones.
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Backflip is useful to high power strength jetstream Zephyr for controlling momentum while floating. It's an energy free way to quickly slow your forward speed or reverse directions. Other than that, well I dont know but it looks cool.
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The best way to balance the Tonkor would be to add the Dex Tonkor.
That way you can equally distribute it's weight using both arms.
It's not like Tonkor Zephyrs are ruling the universe or even desired by the majority of groups. I find the Atterax to be a much better weapon anyway on my 6 forma power str Jetstream Zephyr. It's got a larger AE, fantastic damage/status and never has to reload or aim. The only thing I miss out on is jumping really high and shooting down from above, but that's just for clowning around anyway.
Seriously, have you ever heard GROUP LF TONKOR ZEPHYR!?
Didn't think so. Move along.
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This happens because more Grakata = more power. When they put out Grakata melee, and dex Grakata melee so you can have 5 Grakatas at the same time, mob scaling will no longer be an issue. GRAKATA!
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The Atterax is massively powerful now. So much so that I havent had the need to use a primary weapon in months.
I repolarized it for coiling viper, and i'm currently using it with:
Primed Pressure point
Body count
Blood rush
Primed Reach
Berserker
60% ice / status chance
60% toxic / status chance
Organ Shatter.
The reach is massive. It red crits very low into the combo counter. The high status means you'll be spamming viral and slash procs together in tandem with said crits (don't forget about the 5.7x damage multiplier on it). A good slide attack can wipe out an entire room, and the massive range means keeping the combo counter up is easy. I have not come across any melee weapon that can keep up with the massive AE destruction the Atterax has. It makes 2h War look like a plastic toy sword.
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10 hours ago, Insizer said:
- Death from above only works if there is an above, which hlaf of the time there isn't.
- Your buffs to her damage while flying are OP and BS
- One way you can make Divebomb useful is make it useful is just make it so that when used on the ground it creates a large radial down gust of wind or something that staggers enemies (maybe for a period of time).
- As far as I know and understand that Turbulence snap angle thing is intended to make it a compromise for hitscan weapons between the prefect Turbulence Zephyr had when she came out, and the worthless 2 shield Turbulence Zephyr got as a nerf.
- How much easier can you make the elemental control of Tornados? You just shoot them.
The key to making Zephyr better imo is to increase her air mobility, and boost her performance on the ground.
My ideas:
- Give her an infinite number of jumps, each jump after the first two cost like 5 energy.
- Get rid of the full gravity thing that happens after Tailwind.
- Incorporate Divebomb into Tailwind such that upon making contact with an entity or upon reaching the end of Tailwind Zephyr releases a radial wind blast.
- Give her a "missile" ability for her second ability. It has the same flight/targeting mechanics as Nyx's Psychic Bolts (including their focusing fire capability) but does damage in a small AOE and delivers either an impact proc or blast proc. Call it "Sparrow" or something.
Interestingly enough while I completely 100% disagree with more air mobility making Zephyr better, your 1-4 are not bad ideas and are refreshing compared to the whole archwing nonsense most people spew forth in these threads.
I think the key to making Zephyr better is to make her more attractive to groups. By herself, she is very solid and fun to play despite the chorus of whiners who have no idea what they are doing. This however tends to be where things end at, because her skills do not transfer well to the rest of the group unlike Frost, Trinity, Nova or many other teamplay oriented frames. Mobility is just not valuable to the rest of the team.
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5 hours ago, KingMe42 said:
Not really, not when you sell a frame with bird and wind theme but it can't remain in the air any longer than any other frame.
I agree with your OP of having tailwind reset this timer, and have suggested this many times prior.
You're quoted statement however is very wrong. You can remain in the air for quite a while longer with Zephyr compared to other frames. Also, you can use double jump to reset the aimglide timer as far as i've experienced it thus far also. Try verticle tailwind, aim glide at the zenith or just before when your upwards momentum = 0, tap double jump when you start to fall and then aimglide again. If you really want to be fancy you can tailwind into a wall-latch to finish off with.
At the end of the day however, you're more valuable while on the ground than in the air. While fun, fighting from the air perpetuates the image that Zephyr is useless and weak.
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As long as the gun part is a Grakata I vote yes
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I didn't read all of the longer posts but enough to know what to say.
Zephyr has a unique tribulation to the team with being the one who takes the advantage above the rest of the team and the enemy with how much she floats which means even though she's squishy squishy squishy when when being prodded by a load of enemies, she can be the one that revives the rest of the team when down and lays down fire when not getting shot at in return.
In addition to that, her mobility can still be combat oriented and if you manage to get the enemy's attention and they can't shoot you then you have yourself a decoy that will will fire back, get hit a few times and the team can fight back. If you want to have a quick row or two of enemies stunned then you got tailwind and if you want an airstrike then you got divebomb. To help with being a decoy you got turbulence and CC is tornado and her ability alter mods make her mor powerful and much more helpfull to the team.
Divebomb Vortex drags a load of enemies together for an AOE from another frame or a good wall of fire from the whole team.
Jetstream gives the team a speed boost.
The tornado one makes high damage builds great because if the AOE effect and 8 extra tornadoes.
You need to play with the team other than on your own. No one does that.
You're first two paragraphs are better served by Valkyr or a myriad of other frames.. Why take squishy squishy squishy when you can do the same thing with Invincible? Also, if you were a more useful frame that played nice with others, you're team probably would not require the revive in the first place.
Divebomb generally doesn't work on anything inside a Nullifer bubble or anything that has a corrupted ancient buff on it, which accounts for a large % of enemies in Void missions. I question too if you have a mod slot to waste on a nearly useless highly situational ability, actually two mod slots because of Jetstream.? Actually THREE mod slots because you are mentioning 8 tornadoes? I have 6 formas on my Zephyr and can barely manage to fit in all the mods I require for near-god-mode using only jetstream.
Jetstream's team speed boost when built for actual speed does not have the range or team duration to be valuable. When built for range, the increase is not fast enough to be valuable, and still doesnt last long enough if somebody moves out of range. Worse, if somebody falls behind, it can split the team up as 3 characters are now moving faster.
Tornadoes block firing lanes because they absorb the damage to change the status type. Think of it like a frost who puts a bubble between you and your enemies. Often times the damage they prevent can be greater than the damage that would have happened.
The very very best you will ever get with a team is if you can get a Tonkor crew together, stick close enough together to all reap the benefits of +++ power strength jetstream Turbulence, and go to town. This is awesome for sure.
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The problem, though, is what niches exist for stationary groups that aren't already taken? Oberon, Night Equinox and any other 'healing' frame are utterly obsolete because of Trinity. Nova crowds out Banshee and Saryn in terms of team damage multiplication (I know Banshee can be hugely powerful, but she's harder to play than Nova). Frost has basically invalidated any other possible 'point defence' frame, like Limbo or Atlas or Volt (or even Zephyr). When it comes to CC, there are lots of options, but the gold standard is Loki's Irradiating Disarm, who lots of players already complain invalidates Nyx, who is a damn good CC frame to begin with. Let's not even go into poor saps like Hydroid who were obsolete before they were even released. Tanking? How do you even beat literal invulnerability with Valkyr? By giving the rest of your team 99% damage reduction? And then pretty much all the nuker frames drop off at high levels anyway, except for Excal who can scale with mods and Ash with his armour-ignoring finisher damage. Stealth? Well, teams don't need stealth in the first place, and we already have three different frames with full freaking invisibility.
Bluntly, we already have too many frames for all of them to be viable in the ultra-competitive fully optimised bleeding edge 'impossible survival' meta. Simply the nature of that kind of setup encourages theorists to whittle down the stable of possibilities to a tiny pool considered 'viable'. Moreover, the last kind of people I think we should cater to are the pretentious blowhards demanding "H>Draco LF Frost, Bless Trin, MR21 ONLY!!!!!". We have 20+ frames right now and the majority of those are not requested by those Draco Dictators who feel the need to micromanage the composition of their squad, and Zephyr isn't unusual at all in that respect. And we shouldn't be encouraging the degenerate playstyle where, in a game about super agile parkour space ninjas, the team spends hours standing in a tiny area enclosed by a block of ice. Yes, Frost beats out Zephyr in static Defence missions, but try taking Frost to Triton and going further than 20 digs. Techs will evapourate your globe in seconds, while Zephyr can protect the excavator indefinitely.
The problem of being overshadowed by Frost isn't that Zephyr isn't strong enough, it's that missions don't discourage static play enough, so mobile defensive protection is underrated. Yeah, Frost is and probably should be king of the hill in Defence, but the immobility of his globes should be a liability in Survival or even Interception. The fact that those modes don't punish static gameplay is a failing that exacerbates the tendency of players towards trying to 'play' with minimal input. Players will always try to maximise their gain per activity; it is in fact part of the job of designers to put obstacles in their way. When sitting in a globe inside a sewer nets you the same likelihood of reward as running around trying to collect life support and moving between capsules, players are going to sit in the globe. If they had to move a lot, to the point that globes become a liability for blocking line of fire and must be recast frequently because the team keeps moving, I'd expect players' opinions of Zephyr to rise.
Rather than worrying about hyper-optimised group composition and possible functions therein, we should be looking for a unique feature that makes Zephyr stand out and fun to play. Thing is, she's already fun to play (which just about everybody agrees on) and functions well in most situations, so is mostly missing some standout feature. She could certainly have splashier abilities, but on the whole she isn't in a bad spot in terms of design. Her biggest problem, in my opinion, is actually that she's different from what many players expect of an 'air' frame, so they want to change her into something closer to their expectations, despite not suffering from any intrinsic crippling flaws. Mismatches between expectations and reality can kill perfectly good things, but in this case it merely results in relatively low usage and constant proposals to overhaul her, neither of which actually necessitate any change.
Out of any ranking of popularity, somebody is necessarily going to be the lowest, so just having low usage is not an argument for change. The other unpopular frames, Limbo and Banshee, also function on the whole perfectly well, but due to being somewhat difficult to use well (and somewhat irritating to teammates in the case of Limbo) people don't play them, and while they could be overhauled to make them more straightforward, it just isn't a high priority compared to things like balancing the starters or improving interactivity in some other frames. I dare say half the reason Zephyr, Limbo and Banshee are unpopular is because they require a relatively high level of interaction to be effective, whereas playing Frost and spamming Snow Globe, Nova spamming M-Prime or Trin spamming either Bless or EV is much simpler. Those of us more interested in playing than collecting virtual resources or pursuing high scores will play whatever we enjoy, but those who are into it for the e-peen are going to bulk out the player numbers in the less complicated frames, but in actuality I expect future reworks and overhauls to err more on the side of the convoluted, interactive frames rather than the single button press frames.
Yeah I totally agree with almost everything here also. I'de have gone down this route (interaction = less popular), but i'm tired of writing books on these threads.
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I don't think I ever use the pause combos unless my finger gets tired by accident. I don't ever use the hold ones either.
Depending on your weapon, some of these also become quite possible to do once attack speed reaches a certain point.
I would not miss either of them. I would rather see some combos that use left / right movement instead.
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I don't know why people think that Zephyr's mobility needs to be changed with Parkour 2.0. It's still incredibly useful and is still a huge boon to using her.
The only ability she has that needs to change is Divebomb and I have zero ideas as to how to change it, without just stealing an ability from another frame, so I will not get into that discussion. Everything else she has is perfectly fine.
Superior mobility, in all situations, with Tailwind.
Almost complete invulnerability to projectiles with Turbulence.
Uncontrollable but heavy CC with a side effect of damage and status chance with Tornado.
Combined with each other these 3 abilities makes her a force to be reckoned with.
Parkour 2.0 is a very convenient scapegoat to claim Zephyr is obsolete and useless. The people who go here fit into the group of people who want to play Zephyr but can't figure out how, and therefore have no idea what Zephyr really needs. There's two problems with this argument:
1) First and foremost, before Parkour 2.0 did you ever hear a group shout Looking for Zephyr? This right here is enough to invalidate the entire parkour 2.0 argument. People didn't seek Zephyrs before parkour 2.0, and they don't seek them after parkour 2.0. Parkour 2.0 is not a problem.
2) While mobility is nice, it does not add much value to groups who tend to be more stationary. While mobility adds lots of fun and whatnot to Zephyr, it doesn't do much for everybody else. Improved mobility will not add improved value. Maps do not support it, squadmates do not need it. It will add more fun, provided you enjoy playing by yourself.
The above quoted post is correct that you can build Zephyr to be quite tremendously powerful, but she is a selfish frame and does not share that power very well with the rest of your team. The end result is you have 3 frames working in synergy (i.e. Frost, Nova and Trinity) and 1 frame who is working alone (Zephyr).
Frost, Nova and Trinity would rather play with a 4th warframe that they get some benefit from other than just commando dps. While Zephyr can offer some limited CC and support, choosing her over another frame who does it better is like choosing the 90 lb nerdy kid who can't catch for your sports team over the more coordinated varsity athlete.
Zephyr needs to fill a niche other than mobility with regards to the rest of the team because mobility is not valuable for most teams. There's no reason for Zephyr to lose mobility while doing this, but any fixes or enhancements will be meaningless if they do not give Zephyr a unique role to play that adds value for the other 3 warframes in the group.
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It's not like she isn't pretty unique to begin with. Especially her tornados are as status afflicting CC. These were my reason to build her originally as it's just such a strong strategical option. Now think of a tornado version that doesn't scatter but rather releases them knockdowned on exit, that makes them pass much slower and channels evry passing/connecting bullet upwards(friend or foe) after setting the status of your choice... think her augumented tornados catching bullets and keeping them in a orbit (obvious choice as her turbulence does just this), bullet controll and therefore scaling damage, paired with decent defense, CC and mobility would be a EXCELLENT reason to pick her.
Synergy/interaction with these types of tornados would also be a acceptable upgrade for tailwind.
She's unique and independantly powerful, but meh on playing well with others as is right now. The people who like her right now, like myself, do not mind as much that she's expendable to the group.
I wouldn't mind seeing tornadoes suck up, or at least deflect nearby bullets/projectiles. I wouldn't mind seeing some changes as long as they aren't exchanging mobility for mobility+ under the false assumption that this is going to fix their problems - which sooooooo many threads seem to do (OMG I NEED TO FLY SO I CAN HIT MY HEAD OFF THE CEILING??). There's no denying that there's a big chunk of people out there who think flying zephyr or more mobile zephyr is going to be better zephyr, as the many threads that pop up often allude to, hence my earlier post that this group doesn't know what to ask for / suggest because they are too busy scapegoating parkour 2.0 for all of the problems that have existed since parkour 1.0.
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The potential archwing flight would bring is controllable CC, bulletjumping to activate a boost that results in CC on passing. The popularity of this concept roots in the merge of her first 2 abilitys to free a slot for something usefull, on top of decent CC. It has nothing to do with the TYPE of movement but rather with the addictions it would mean for her. It's not like people ask for the wrong things, the right things just get scrapped outa ilogical fandom. Would the people here be more satisfied with a frost type rework? Go ahead and advocate it. I wouldn't mind knockdown CC to anything she passes, dive bomb creating a deadly vortex or tornados that concentrate fire at all. But PLEASE stop clinging to the broken state of her.
I doubt this would make people request Zephyr for their groups There are also more than enough CC frames out there already who do it better and safer. You're not adding any value here, just redundancy. We don't need yet another rhino stomp, equinox rest, Frost freeze, mag knockdown or whatever.
Try looking for uniqueness. For example, I would propose allowing something like dive bomb to instantly shatter enemy nullifier / frost bubbles when used at sufficient height. This would synergize with mobility, and make 1 out of 4 abilities provide something to the group that other frames cannot easily do.
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The most straightforward explanation on why people hate on Zephyr is their expectations are bad, and what they do expect would often be terrible anyway. This conversation about slash dash vs tailwind going on between CoolD and abb12355 is a great example of this
People tend to be under the impression that Zephyr is supposed to be an Archwing. You could give Zephyr unlimited freeform flight right now in any mission, on top of her existing powers she has right now, and it's not going to make the frame any more useful or desirable to team with.
The stuff about parkour 2.0 being better and obsoleting Zephyr is quite false provided you have a well built mobility Zephyr (i'll run circles around any of you, anytime). What is true though, is that Parkour 2.0 makes a convenient scapegoat for people to whine about. I hate to break it to you folks, but even before Parkour 2.0 did you really spam chat going LF Zephyr! for your groups? I don't think so.
Mobility doesn't really add much value to teams outside of maybe capture missions, and even then it's not required. Being the supreme grandmaster of mobility roughly equates to being the supreme grandmaster of flipping burgers at your local fast food restraunt. No matter how good or how much of it you have, you're still flipping burgers while other frames are managing hedge funds.
So, in the end, I think that it's pointless to attempt to educate people on how to play Zephyr better or argue about who flips burgers better. I think efforts are better spend educating people to complain about the correct things. What Zephyr needs is a niche that adds value to the group that other frames cannot fill, or cannot fill as well. Complain accordingly, but please don't waste your DE lottery winnings on flight/mobility or you'll end up poor, groupless and flipping burgers again shortly afterwards.
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I think mend should stay as is, but allow the shield restore to create proto-shields if it goes over the max shield value of the target.
I find rest to be quite powerful with max stretch, overextended, and that drift mod that adds 15% range. As long as the map isnt choked up with nullifers, i can shut down everything really fast using it, and it lasts long enough to matter.
Pacify / provoke kind of sucks for me since i mostly run night form with high range. I find it pretty useless. It would be nice if it in addition to the damage reduction, it did something else like provided health regeneration.
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This is a really fun mod. I feel like my Warframe should be wearing a Fitbit while trying to keep the combo counter up. I got to 2349 (yeah its small compared to some combos seen here i know) with the Atterax and feel like I just walked 5000 steps or something.
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like O M G the Atterax is a MONSTER now. I love it!
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On Ivara it was stronger than most of my 6 forma primary weapons due to the stealth multiplier.
Still, it was really really really really nice and fun to have.
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for the record, i have 112% range on the stat sheet. I would say maybe 1 in 3 cloak arrows i fire runs into this problem. Sometimes it seems like it hits them and causes them to blink and and out of invisiblity rapidly as if they arrow is trying to keep up with their warframe. Most of the time generally assume these are sentinel hits, but I know for sure that this isn't always the case because sometimes it sticks the arrow way off to the side of the Warframe
Sometimes when I see the blinking happen i'll stick another arrow to my target and get overlapping bubbles which usually stops it. This happens a lot more often when the quiver target is moving fast in any direction but towards me.
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I prefer Equinox over Ivara for sleeping things. Her sleep casts fast, hits instantly and has a good area / duration if you invest in range. It's just kinda crappy that if you run a designated sleep build all you can do is pretty much crowd control where as Ivara does it effectively enough and retains a lot of other utility.
I would probably play Sleepquinox a bit more often if people didn't yell so much about having the entire map shut down and complain about the finisher animations. I get the general feeling though when i do take my sleep build out that the longer the mission goes on, the more powerful/valuable crowd control becomes. Usually phase 1-20 is like OMG stop sleeping things, 20-40 hears less/no complaining and 60+ is like OMG you're a superhero!
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anything less than a Grakata gunblade (Grakataxe?) would be unacceptable
Let us not forget about Equinox
in Warframes
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I feel a bit guilty sometimes during the new no-challenge void fissures. I can usually just leave maim run and everything dies before anybody else can get to it.