Clowee
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Posts posted by Clowee
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only numbskulls try to categorize stuff as so.
Certain frames have to work harder than others such as Zephyr/Equinox vs Mesa/Mag. If your team's Zephyr is little more than an oxygen thief, then they are going to suck more than the same oxygen thief playing a Mesa or Excalibur. If your team's Zephyr is a try-hard, they will adapt and excel in any situation.
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I figured out why adding the whip turned my Equisux into a total monster.
It seems like when you rest a target, your melee damage is automatically converted into armor piercing finisher damage with a hefty bonus. Usually this is tied to a kill animation so you are only hitting one enemy at a time so the 80k damage you are doing with a scindo prime is ineffecient.
The whip (scolliac) has a very very long range especailly with prime reach so you can hit enemies with a spin attack from out of the finisher animation range, but still do finisher damage to a large area. If you mod rest for max range, it's pretty easy to sleep 7+ monsters in a big ball, then spin attack them all with the whip for 16K a piece regardless of what kind of armor they have. I've found that with some good aiming I can generally sleep an entire defense ball of monsters with about 2-3 casts which are fairly quick, and the whip is really quick so its basically rest rest rest THWACK everybody dies. The finisher damage you get on a non finisher animated attack is less (8-16k vs 24k with the whip) but it just erases groups of sleeping enemies.
This doesnt carry over to ranged weapons as I tested it with the Opticor (and burston prime) hoping to nail something for 1 zillion trillion damage, and only ended up doing about normal damage.
*edit*
Looking it some more it may not be finisher damage, but there's a massive boost to melee damage that I do not see with ranged attacks. As long as you can skirt the outside of the finsher animation range, it's pretty fierce.
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I'm really really liking rest now.
Grouped with a Slow Nova, I am able to finisher hit rested targets for 173k per hit using my Scindo Prime. It's enormous overkill but who cares.
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The ceiling should be fixed because its stupid. Fixing the ceiling will not achieve the desired result. The core problem is that aerial bombarding/domination is not as useful as we imagine it to be. You're team needs you on the ground more than in the skys. Fix the stupid ceiling already.
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This would be good.
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I think the current system is ok.
A warframe with 3 polarized slots does not have build flexibility issues.
Has anybody tried to polarize the new slot yet? I've gotten far enough in that it lets me select a polarity when using the forma, but I canceled it because I decided to use said forma on something else at the last moment.
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The logical failure here is that there is no reason that you need air domination or bombardment. These fill roles that in the first case have no purpose, and in the second case has always been better achieved by tail winding up to a high perch and sitting.
Zephyr would be even less useful if she was specialized for these roles given that:
1) Most tile sets simply do not support it.
2) You don't need an death ray armed F-22 to kill ospreys, shield drones and jet pack grineer.
3) Your group can't really use your real group friendly skills like turbulence with jetstream when flying around like the Red Bull blimp.
4) While your busy trying to float around like a derpy humming bird, (insert warframe here) with a Tonkor can provide all of the bombardment you'll ever need without the added derpyness.
I've dumped a lot of time and experimenting into getting the bombardment / flying thing to work, and at the end of the day whether it be pre patch or post patch it just doesn't work out well.
unrelated to this:
As far as racing Mirage, how were you both built (Rush, AAgility, Jet stream?)? If you stack all of the speed stuff up, Zephyr is HELLA fast without tailwinding.
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I didnt like Equinox at all until I gave her a whip. After that it felt like a whole different frame. Dunno why.
I actually like Rest a lot. I've been able to spam it to shut down large groups of enemies by targeting different parts of the group with each cast, and maxing out the range. Generally I will now rest like 5-10 enemies and slide kill them all if they are weak or finisher kill them 1 by 1 if they are not. I've gotten some nice 40k+ finisher hits doing this and I feel effective enough that I'm participating and contributing to the group.
I havent had a lot of use for pacify because I just put everything to sleep.
Mend is kinda meh, but yay for healing the objective, sentinels and kubrows.
I have decided i'm going to focus on night, learn it really well and then move to day and try to create some synergy between the two where i can switch on the fly.
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I've found that fighting in the air has always been less productive than fighting on the ground because you have less foolishness to deal with when you are not trying to pretend you are an airplane and can spend more time shooting.
Zephyr's usefulness has always been more ground centric anyway. The air stuff is just flashy nonsense. If other people want to fly so high they hit the invisible ceiling, lose thier buffs, and instantly get teleported to some random place in the ground then Zephyr is ok with that.
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It does cost a ton though. 15 energy per sec.
It's why every peacemaker build has max efficiency or close to it. It's kinda useless otherwise especially since she doesn't have much energy to begin with.
Also why do people think she can't move? She can do a slow walk in peacemaker holding down the power button.
lol with the way secondary mods are we won't need multishot. Plus then you just have people nerf their secondaries like that. It's dumb like Excalibur using throwing weapons you shouldn't restrict people like that.
Also if we put secondary mods on this at all... the peace will never end. I do like your idea except trying to restrict multishot for some reason.
I just realized we could have a 100% critmaker this way.
I'de question the usefullness of it honestly. I just threw it in there because people whine that mesa is useless on level 9000 monsters.
It's like when people go ZOMG I CRIT FOR 100K when they just kiilled an enemy with 50 total health. Great job, but I just hit 20 of the same monsters for 50 damage each and killed them all...
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Mesa is a ball hog.
This is great as long as you don't mind Mesa holding the ball for most of the game.
This is not so great if your idea of team work isn't automatically pass the ball to the tall kid (support the mesa on the cyropod).
Since we are all now obviously going to try to rebalance peacemaker:
Damage scales with secondary mods (not multishot and stuff).
Left mouse = Fires like any other weapon. Unlimited ammo as long as you have power. Unlimited range. No fall off. Can move.
Right Mouse = Works like the current skill with at 15m base range cap.
Augment = Each kill with peacemaker adds 0.1 punch through to left click, and +0.5 range to right click. Stacks 30 times, but if you go more than 2 seconds without killing anything it resets.
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I dont know about the equinox yet. Havent put enough time into learning it after only like 1 day.
I like the night form because i think it looks cooler and my cape isnt all buggy. I often find myself putting things to sleep that I could just be killing on my Zephyr. The heal seams awkard and not very useful as it takes forever to setup. The Damage Resistance seems kind of neat, but again I could just accomplish the same thing on my Zephyr.
I hear dayform is better (unless you like looking cool and wearing a cape). Maybe i'll check it out soon.
I think ultimately the best way to make Equinox work is probably going to involve some degree of switching between forms on the fly and using day/night together.
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I'de be interested to see how much this improves Dread.
68% and 55% reload sounds like it would make for lots of arrows. I dont think this fits the theme of Chorma well though as it's not poisonous - unless the arrows are poisonous then it's ok.
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I was attempting to engineer this by Verticle tailwind > Aim glide + bomb stuff > verticle tailwind before landing > repeat
it doesnt seem to work because you fall faster on the second glide for some reason
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Zephyr thinks that Ash is a badass needy ninja with real ultimate power, who requires constant babysitting and likes to take short naps.
Zephyr is happy Ash is not a butthead like Limbo, and does not hog all of the monsters like Mesa.
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Perhaps only the first 8 slots should be capable of holding a polarity.
One thing to consider that even with infinite slots there's still the mod point cap of 30-60+aura which all frames share. You could have 300 mod slots, but you will only be able to use ~75-77 or so points worth of mods so you'll never be able to fully utilize all of the slots.
Assuming you have 8 polaries, and are willing to restrict your build flexibility with 8 formas, you would end up with something like:
15-16 point mod (8)
15-16 point mod (8)
13-14 point mod (7)
13-14 point mod (7)
11-12 point mod (6)
11-12 point mod (6)
9-10 point mod (5)
9-10 point mod (5)
Total Used 52
This would leave you space for maybe 2 more ranked mods if the remaining slots could not be polarized. If you jammed eight 16 point mods into your polarities for some reason you'de only have room for 1 extra decent mod before hitting the point cap provided you were using an aura with a high boost like steel charge. While frames would get more poweful, they arguably may not become massivly more powerful than they would already be if you forma'd the frame 8 times with the current system. It probably wouldn't be the end of Warframe as we know it.
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I'm not sure what accounts for the difference in experience other than possibly build. I tend to run max possible movement speed either either +90 to +135% range. One thing I may have forgot also is you an achieve the mobile barrier by sliding and attacking with something like the Orthos Prime with primed reach. The huge range and no limit on the enemies hit means you can hit like 18 or more of them if they are stacked up right while blocking all the projectiles in the way, then just speed back for the good ole hit and run. It's pretty nifty at +95% speed.
I'de really really like to see zephyr get an aoe buff strip like the Stalker has to add to the group friendliness. The recent Ancient Corrupter buff has pretty much made Dive bomb useless in Void missions (yet other frames abilities hit just fine through it).
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My suggestion is to make it more skill relying than just "PRESS 3 TO GOD MODE AND DROOL ON YOUR KEYBOARD", so Zephyr won't deflect projectiles from behind. Also to change its pattern to a half-bubble shield that deflects anything that aimed into this invisible shield, so it will defend someone or something else. So if you're skilled player you should like it too, because I didn't offered any replacements on that, just some refinement and utility. We all know that turbulence is overpowered and useless for your team in the same time, but it remains as it is just because Zephyr is weak.
You must be fighting extremely easy enemies to make this rather trollish assessment. This makes me think that you "want" to play Zephyr, but don't really main Zephyr because of the common perceptions of it being weak.
Point 1: Turbulence is way far off from any kind of god mode ability. It's also far off from being overpowered compared to the other stopping/shield abilities of other frames such as Frost, Vauben and Limbo. It's very very well balanced IMO right now as it has things it excels at, and things it does not do so well.
Medium level (High T2-Moderate T3) HItscan will still get through on enemies even with enormous range mods. The ability is also useless vs melee, which is a good trade-off compared to the frost bubble which will slow them or vauben ring which will outright stop them. Beam (Moa) attacks will also penetrate when used at a close enough range or if you let them beat on the shield long enough.
Most interesting is that the weapons Turbulence excels against are often the least dangerous but most common, such as corrupted lancer rifles / crewman shotguns. If you were fighting 1000 corrupted lancers, it would be essentially god mode (unless you get naded or meleed). I don't think that most frames would have much problems dealing with this situation though.
My experience from many many games iis that I have the exact same survivability running a full armored Valk with 50% reflex guard/lifestrike and NOT using hysteria as I do running Zeyphr (same reflex guard) with Turbulence. Does this mean that setup is overpowered as well? You also need to look at the bigger picture in that all of the area shield / nullifying abilities have pros and cons, including turbulence. Limbo is great until stuff gets inside the rift. Frost is great until the shield dies. Vauben will ice the entire horde, but doesnt shield from damage. Zephyr is great vs some monsters and useless vs others. This is fair and balanced. Let's also not forget that the ability is more useful as a speed boost than shield vs Infested, and is very far from god mode unless you want to bring Volt into the overpowered argument.
Point 2: Turbulence is indeed quite helpful for your group if you use it in the manner you originally described in your original post.
I don't quite understand how you can describe wanting the ability to be a "wall of redirection" when it already has this feature if you just position yourself correctly. I can easily shut down an entire attack path in a Void defense by putting myself in between the approaching wave and the cyropod. I can also pre-shield for the frost bubble which greatly extends it's durability by not allowing dumb projectiles to deplete it's health which makes for a nice defensive synergy.
I'll try and put myself about 10m in front of the group between them and the oncoming horde to bounce away all of the projectiles and draw the attention of the hitscan enemies, and then withdraw when i've taken enough damage (through Turbulence) to regenerate shieds. If I see the pod or objective taking damage, I'll run, copter or tailwind myself inbetween the monsters and the pod in the same way and focus on the stuff that's in melee range while the other projectiles bounce. Unless there's a massive horde right up on the objective, i'm pretty confident I can save the day with my wall of redirection.
Secondly, you mention turbulence should be ill suited to static defense. This is already the case. Turbulence works better moving and offers an aug with 40% speed as incentive to do so. Humor me and show me how overpowered turbulence is as a static defense in ODD/ODS, or even a 20 wave T3 Void Defense. You'll die because you get overrun by rockets and damage resistant buffed melee. I once had the perception of "Oh! I can be Frost and just bubble" but I've quickly learned that this is not as effective as moving around to intercept projectiles and kite melee. If you want to be a REAL saint, you can move around the very edge of the frost bubble where you are needed and stop all of the stupid stuff from depleting it's health so that when the rockets or high level hitscan comes out the Frost isnt wasting all of his time rebubbling.
It's also a great revive tool because you can tailwind to the corpse, revive with Turbulence up, and then either escort the revived tenno away with the 40% extra speed / deflection or just tailwind back to wherever you were originally without missing a beat.
So I dunno... You've got some great ideas regarding the other skills for sure, but I have to wonder after that post if you REALLY Zephyr or if you just Zephyr on weekends.
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I notice a bit of a difference using stretch + max overextended and Turbulence (especially with the inner shield). I've also seen some weird behavior such as it sometimes seems like some attacks ignore it if they are not aimed at you such as the Moa beam, and others not so much. Might just be me not seeing stuff right too though. Turbulence also deflects some really odd stuff too like the electric beam from those annoying infested munchkins.
I've also seen a bit of randomness regarding bombard rockets too where sometimes Turbulence sends them way off course and other times it's like the ability isnt even being used.
Still, great skill. Wouldn't want to change it ever. I find it's more useful for mobility than tailwind when using Jet Stream, especially with weapons like Dread or the Opticor
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Adding damage abilities will end up giving Zephyr the Mesa effect meaining they are powerful up to a certain point, then become meh. I would rather see the Zephyr get a good utility like the ability to remove buffs from enemies or something.
I think turbulence is fine the way it is also. It works fantastic against projectiles, so-so against hitscan, and not at all vs melee. It's a mobile bubble / mobility booster which is great for what Zephyr is. This is really what Zephyr brings to groups at the moment.
Tornadoes are interesting for sure. I'm glad they arent a spam 4 to win power, while at the same time I wish they did work a little bit better and weren't so situational.
As for tailwind/divebomb - merging them into one ability would help them both for sure. I find tailwind actually to be somewhat useless most of the time because I can do everything it does by just using my melee weapon. Divebomb was really useful as a cc ability until they added the ancient corrupter buff which makes it generally situational at best (yet other frame's abilities work just fine through the shield).
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This mod is great if you use it correctly. Follow these 10 easy steps:
Step 1) Be Zephyr
Step 2) Add Sprint Boost
Step 3) Add Rush
Step 4) Add Jet Stream
Step 5) Join pug game, run fast.
Step 6) Paint Zephyr red because red is faster.
Step 7) Join pug game, befriend Volt. Zephyr and Volt make eachother go faster!
Step 8) Meet Volt's sister, Nova. Nova makes things to slower, which makes Zephyr faster.
Step 9) Become best friends forever!
Step 10) Add another Jetstream Zephyr. Form a biker gang. Go faster.
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I use AA on my Jetstream Zephyr along with rush and even sprint boost sometimes if im feeling frisky. Don't care at all about the armor. Love the speed. Wish it was faster.
11 points really is not a lot of space, especially on a Warframe with a few formas. To me the extra speed is totally worth the 11 points.
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The only part of the OP i agree with is the corrupt ancients adding tedium to the game with the excessive DR buff. I dont mind them in higher tiers, but I find them pretty stupid in T1-2. I'de rather see bombards in lower level missions than the DR buff from ancients
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+1
All the people who complained about GP are people who don't play in teams.
"Theres nothing for me to do with a mesa and Gmag doing all the farming"
If you bring nothing to the team, then why point the finger at others?
This is actually the exact opposite of teamwork. What you are describing is the grade school scenario where 4 people get together to work on a team and the egghead just takes over and does all the work, and doesnt let anybody else participate.
It's like when the entire team is instructed to pass the basketball to the tall kid who stands head and shoulders taller than everybody else because of a fortunately timed growth spurt.
Other warframes want to play ball too. It may be hard to comprehend this when you're the ball-hog.
Grakata Melee.
in Weapons
Posted · Edited by Clowee
+1.
Original poster is a genius.