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Sven_Lazar

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  1. Count me in - I have completed an Arbitration Mission.
  2. Until there are people spreading false informations, looking for answers or misunderstand what the upcoming shortcuts of Hard Modes are supposed to be, this topic should keep living to prevent people getting confused or complaining at it's release. Everyone will have answers next week but it dosnt have to die just because you decided it on a whim. The first 40 seconds of the video is the part that my posts refer to and you decided to ignore it too (c'mon guys, it's the first 40 seconds..). So to repeat myself again : During these 40 seconds, TP clearly explains and clearly inform viewers what the devs already announced in the devstream about what the upcoming Hard Modes are and for who it was designed for (wich SneakyErvin keep ignoring and state false informations like for example that it's not for the concerned people mentioned in the video but that it was always designed for "him" or players that wanted more rewards. The rest of the video is indeed just Tactical Potato talking about his personal opinions and ask viewers what they would want or what should be added according to their personnal opinions but you can skip that part as this topic have the same purpose. I post and reposted this video to indicate SneakyErvin to watch these 40 first seconds because it counters the false informations he is spreading since yesterday (and spreading false informations out of ego is not tolerated). The video share the same subject of this topic. If you read previous posts, you will see that it was announced that only a ship decoration (some dont agree with that (like me), some want more rewards or ressources instead of that decoration or added to the ship decoration and some dont mind either ways) and we are debating about more ressources and still debate about it. So if you dont want to keep track of the entire discussion, fine, but dont make this debate more difficult that it seems to be for some people, with useless comments that dont make any progress to the actual debate except adding more confusion for people that just arrived now. However, if you are referring to the moment where Tactical Potato says "hopefully to get more rewards" there is "hopefully" in there because it's not yet the case. So pay more attention to the discussion or what is said in the video. So they are actually shortcuts to a difficulty already existing. You finally realised that now, good. Now, what about the others facts, like Hard Modes being designed for the players that just wanted a shortcut to not waste time in slaying low level ennemies for hours just to access it and having fun again as stated and proved in the video ? Read the next post below here and compare with what is said in the 40 seconds of the video: Will you finally stop speading false informations about it and finally admit that they are indeed planned as shortcuts to already existing Hard Modes and that it is designed not for everyone or you but for people that dont have time to slay low level ennemies for hours to finally have access because of real life duties/obligations, etc.. like it's said on the video ? Or are you hoping to hide behind General-Packman or someone else everytime, repeating the same thing they says in their posts while they didnt follow the whole discussion at all unlike you ? The rest of the video is about TP and viewers personal opinions wich is to debate wich is the same as what we do here, the problem is that you claim false informations and these first 40 seconds counters them so it's time for you to stop. ๐Ÿ˜• You can try to find or hide behind excuses but there will always be facts that point your false informations or ego. Just ignore SneakyErin and point facts to him he cant deny. I recommend anyone to just ignore and not trying to discuss with SneakyErvin. As proven by posts of him I quoted above, he proved to be a delusional liar, someone that insults the game content and people and a troll that just seek to bait or provoke people into senseless discussions to a point that a moderator had to erase his insults (Felsagger saw that too) in one of his previous post. In short, a troll. A waste of time ๐Ÿ˜ž At least, it served so people now know what he is and to show the video that explains what are the upcoming Hard Modes about and for who to newcomers that just arrive in this topic.
  3. But Doom Eternal's PVP is what Conclave is to warframe, it doesnt represent the game itself as I was talking about exactly the game itself. Conclave is competitive where WF is cooperative (two opposite things), however, conclave dosnt change Warframe's genre. WarFrame stays a cooperative game because it was designed that way. Conclave is a mode created to occupy / contending and keeping the flux of new players that seek competition in a game where it's real genre is opposite (cooperative). Wich was a mistake IMO since Warframe is not a competition game and that mix mostly resulted to fuel/encourage toxic attitudes (people that tell others to "hurry up" or that they "suck" when dying for example) towards players that just wants to chill and helping each others. Confronting you with facts until you stop ignoring them.
  4. Guys, I'm not interested in who started with the job reference/comparison but please, just stop calling or referring games being jobs already. It's a wrong argument to use or refer to, as the primary goal of jobs is to make money to survive or being greedy in a real life system where you have no choice to comply if you dont want your family to starve or be in the street; where the primary goal of games is to have fun and relax. The two are opposites, time to realise that. If you mix up these two different and opposite things no wonder the complains or greedy attitudes over games. Hobbies/games are a choice, if you need to force yourself to have fun, you are doing it wrong. The players that understand that, dont make a fuss about rewards or treat rewards as a secondary if not last thing after having fun. For example: Yesterday evening, I encountered a new player in Hydron. He was leveling up his Trinity ( โค๏ธ ) and he found it boring leveling it up sitting in the mission, while everyone was using their offensive/nuke powers (while his trinity had none), just because Hydron is known as "popular" and a really fast way to level up gears for new players but where players are also known to just quits after wave 10 and repeat, because they find it harder (so too risky) to go on and that it's so not "efficient" enough. So, wishing to encourage him have fun and have a good experience in Warframe (with one of the nicest frame), I proposed to help him after he told me that he had no friends playing WF yet. So we went in another mission, just the two of us, using our respective synergies between our two different frames while talking and he had so much fun that he forgot that we were leveling up and so his first goal/reward. Same example thing after that with another player, leveling up his Mirage in Hydron again. This player didnt like the "stop and repeat same mission, sitting on it" thing (and he's right, that's the wrong way to play WF) and wanted to level up his frame to the end, going wave 30+. So that's what we did with the two of us remaining while he was so happy during waves, he wouldnt start to compliment and thank me, seeing I was following my promise. So.. Did I do it to get more ressources or a special virtual object reward in game in return or a ship decoration ? No, but what you are supposed to seek first in Warframe and games: FUN with other players. Even him said: "you will gain nothing staying so much just for me so it's not worth for you". It should always be worth for you with just getting fun and be kind in a video game. That's the state of Warframe right now, and it's sad that people ruin fun over greedyness or lazyness. Again with the arrogant claims like "all players like that", "no one like", "players have no reason for..." Some players are satisfied and thankful with what they are finally getting after all these years (since they asked for exactly that) so stop thinking your personal opinion is a universal one and stop putting everyone in the same bag again and again for the love of god, please. If these upcoming hard modes are not designed for you (wich is the case), just make a new suggestion to have the same but with new/better/rewards just for you and people sharing the same goal. You could for example make a topic to ask for a rework of nightmare missions making them endless modes but with better rewards the more you advance rewarding better challenge. Cause less gravity, less energy, etc, is just funny modes and not challenging ones IMO and we probably think the same ? If we get these upcoming shortcuts to Hard Modes as they were announced until now, we wouldnt have the right to go against that idea unlike this topic cause it would be designed for you this time. No it really doesn't because fun/challenge is an enough reward for the concerned people and that it's not what the upcoming Hard Modes were designed for, they were designed as being shortcuts to a fun/challenge that already exist but doesnt interest you. Make a suggestion to have another more rewarding hard mode but dont ruin this one, thank you. You may watch the short video I linked above since it explains (and repeat what the devs said) what the upcoming Hard modes are for and for who it is designed for, that it dosnt have anything new ( it's just a shortcut for something that exist already) and that it's not meant to be a new mandatory place to farm, but only an option that you choose if that's what you are looking for, not THE new place you will have to go to farm, again. Dont compare DOOM with Warframe ! Doom's goal is to rush and finish the game the fastest and more efficient way WHILE PLAYING SOLO without any interactions or synergies with other players. They are both games but with different genres. It's a singleplayer and NOT COOPERATIVE game that is designed in a way so you would buy the next one or eventual not free DLC when you finished it, opposite to WF.. If you want raids, ask or wait for them but the upcoming shortcuts to Hard Modes are not designed to be raids. It's the "easiest game you ever played" because you choosed to be it that way.
  5. If they are incorrect, I dont have to follow them. I'm intelligent enough to know by myself wich rules are corrects or not as I gave you corrects examples above that you, once again, ignored because it pinpoints your mistakes. if you call real facts, correct and ideal human attitude/behaviour and arguments you cant counter "crap", then we can see where the real problem is coming from. Greed means wanting more and always more without never being satisfied and that's what lot of people proved to be, including you. Some players (sometimes from both sides) agreed in this topic (and it's the truth) that there's already enough things and places to farm ressources/get rewards already, where meanwhile, the concerned people for who the upcoming shortcuts to Hard Modes was designed for dont have enough time for accessing the already existing Hard Modes anymore due to real life/duties obligations. So to resume the situation to you : you can still do what you want (but are too lazy to do) but we cant anymore because of real life duties/obligation. So if you would really look for balance, it would be to let the concerned people have these shortcuts for who it was designed for, and wait for your turn. Too bad for you, "shortcut" is the exact word Pablo used in his unrecorded stream while defining the upcoming Hard Modes. Just the first 30 seconds of this resume video about what the devs said about the upcoming shortcuts hard modes prove the facts that I stated here. So if after watching this, you still say "they are not shortcuts" when the guy in this video use the word "skip" as a synonym to "shortcut" and as the guy in the video continues with "hours of running mission" and "its not a magical end game", etc..." , you will be judge as the real "bullheaded" and an immature waste of time, getting ignored. You asked for it.
  6. Well, it's an interesting subject and hot one since the concerned Hard Modes are coming (maybe) next week. So it's important to share informations before it's release to prevent people being confused and understand it's purpose. ๐Ÿ˜Š
  7. You would have used, "you all" / "you guys" / "people that seeks fun or challenge" / and "your community" / etc, etc over many choices. If english language would really mix "singular and plural" in one single word, allowing or making sentences or situations confusing, then it's an inside mistake that should be resolved, but I think it's just that you made a mistake that is often made by users and just because most people does, doesnt make it right. So the question is : should you have replaced "you" by "you all" or "you people" or one of the previous exemple instead ? The answer is yes. You even explained it was as an "you people" so dont shorten it and actually use "you people" in the firstplace. That's another exemple of lazyness. And my suggestion (wich was different to 844448) was an answer to your problems with relics rewards that answered to his but you still just answered now "it's bad" to my different suggestion" and argumenting is not just saying it's bad or not, it's WHY you think it is, wich I'm still waiting for. If you would really have read it before you would have realise that it was a different suggestion and you would have answered to it in your previous post. Reading it now, when I confronted and forced you to it, still prove that you need to be forced to do the right thing, proving one of my previous point that you only do things when forced to, wich is called lazyness. "The problem with you is that you wanna limit thing" Again, the announced shortut Hard Modes are not designed for everyone, that's why the devs initially announced that there would be no more rewards. You keep refuse to accept that proved fact. Plus, I went against my initial opinion as to make compromises so what you say is just an excuse to satisfy your greediness. "it would only add enjoyment to a wider audience." From what we saw in this topic, it seems that it's impossible to satisfy everyone despite the compromises we proposed so adding enjoyment to a wider audience where the wide audience target in this case is the people concerned (cause Devs or Rebecca said that we were enough for them to work on it and release it) is the better thing to do instead of ruining what the concerned people asked. You keep ignoring facts that exist: devs that stated that we were enough to get it, devs that stated that it was designed for a concerned people that you dont imply, and devs that said there wouldnt be more rewards but a ship decoration. So stop act like these fatcs dont exists just because of your ego. Like ErydisTheLucario just said, it should be fine if it's not for you, if you want more rewards they will eventually make new ones or even a special mode just for people like you even when you already have a lot. You just have to be patient and considerate. The one not accepting to let the concerned people have what it was designed for just because they get it before you. Wich is an ugly side of human selfisness and greediness too. Telling someone that make suggestions and compromises despite his original opinion to make everyone happy that he is egotistical or selfish when you ignored them dosnt make any sense. You are another person claiming falsely and without counter arguments that I make up issues when I post existing facts that you keep ignoring to avoid accepting that my points are corrects. Restrictions that I just informed you in my previous post and that you didnt know and were mistaking about, in fact. Same and same argument again when I already responded to it. Read my post again and the whole post this time. Repeating the same thing over and over again without counter arguments wont make it a truth, it's called delusion. Some examples where you got the false ideas of why the actual and upcoming shortcuts to Hard Modes were announced to being released and for who in the first place. I've been informing you the whole time about what DE already said on streams. Trying to play "the guy that always knew the correct answers and informations out of pride" when your previous posts proves the opposite doesnt work. Time to accept that your informations were wrong and that the reality is different. Again, if you want something else, you can make suggestions, but dont arrogantly claim that the actual upcoming Hard Modes are what they are not announced for. If my arguments were weak, you wouldnt ignore them but counter them, wich you didnt until now.
  8. Actually, some people from the "more rewards are not needed" side actually suggested ideas to make compromises proving that their objective is to make the game better for everyone. While in the opposite side everyone just ignored the recent suggestions and just selfishly repeated "no, we want more without making efforts in trying to understand anything". So it's only a spiral because they just hide the fact that their objective is to get more without caring about the game, about others or anything else. That's the only reason we are in a dead end, because of the greedy and selfish side, and not because we have different opinions in reality. So all we can do now is hope that DE can make the right decision for everyone but it's sad that the spoiled players are incapable of debating with sense or even consider posted compromises ๐Ÿ˜• It's refreshing to see a smart, considerate and open mind that realises all that even if we have different habits/opinions/goals in games. Respect to you friend. If there were more people like you, not only games but the world would be better. Exactly. ๐Ÿ‘ I read in a post of someone saying that Rebbecca stated that they were enough for them to release shortcuts to Hard Modes without rewards.
  9. You didnt even read the half of what I wrote or ignored it... Was it too long or demanding too much efforts ? Same as to farm things or playing at Warframe ? That would be a good representation of what the real problem is. What about the suggestions 84448 proposed or mine as an answer to the same argument that you are repeating now ? Plus, the fact that you answered: "it is no longer the mode you asked for it" with a "YOU" (me personally so) while I always said "we" proves that you have a narrow-mind fueled by an ego that sees me as an obstacle to be right. I dont have any interest in immature quarrels or competition like "It's not yours! It's mine!" or "No I'm right and you are wrong" where I already posted existing facts and without counter arguments from you to mine. I'm here to read calm and intelligent arguments and intelligent counter arguments to debate and find solutions or compromises but you just seem to have lost your cool right now. Breath friend. Owning a clan that is dedied to new players, I know from personnal experience that giving them everything or confronting/introduce them to something they are not ready for and before getting used to farming and feel fun in it, can make them quit the game sooner, or discourage them as they die every minutes for example confused while watching others still playing. Farming to get what you want is the core of Warframe and what it was designed for. If your logic is : "give players everything and access to high content instantly without doing anything, following the right path or deserving it" then it's just pure lazyness and greediness wich is never a good thing both for players and games. If you find the core and content of Warframe a trivial "S#&&#036" then it's means you dont enjoy playing it in reality and that there's no reason for you to play it. But some people do, so dont be selfish and be considerate towards them. I understand that and your greed. But it's just the wrong way to enjoy what Warframe is in the first place: a game and not a job where everything has to be efficient or rewarding in money or materials. What greedy people dont understand is that difference and the whole concept of what is fun and how to have fun. Fun should be the reward you should look for before rewards, If it's not, you are forcing yourself. You clearly don't like the game from what you stated and prove it by repeating that the content is trivial or by insulting it. You have the choice to look for a way to have fun while farming or fiding a game that more suits you but no, you want more and more and have to have more even if you have to ruin what others like just because it's popular, trying to change Warframe even if it will kill it sooner. If you sit in a mission or planet, it's your and only choice not a forced one as much as to continue to play to Warframe even tho you dont enjoy it, no one forces you but you. ๐Ÿ˜ž
  10. You mention something pretty interesting there ๐Ÿ™‚ Like what if nothing is buffed concerning rewards (cause it will bring more risk to ruin the modes like discussed previously) but instead we take out the excess things in the reward tables ? (like redirection vitality mods as you mentioned) so it will gives players more probability to get more interesting things like mods since there are actual mods with 0,02% or less to loot and rare mods are sold for plats and I think one thing we can all agree on is that we never have enough plats, be it in early game (for cosmetics) or end game (expensive rivens) or future new deluxe aspects, etc while there are more efficient ways to get plats but it's just to diversify and have a different way to earn plats for people that for exemple are bored or dont like to farm Eidolons to sell arcanes ? While it's still a form of buff in reward, maybe that would be a balanced solution to content everyone ? Not a big enough buff to force people doing it and ruin it but still interesting for others ? Not sure IMO but still interesting. There will always be relics that you will need to refine and Fortuna already propose low/mid level missions to get radiant relics as well as Sanctuary too and ive seen no one in game complaining about it or that it was a bad idea as it stayed that way, except you here. The bad thing with Elite Sanctuary (most efficient way to get already radiant relics) is that it is a game mode where only a few selected frames are "viable" to get far and that discourages players or force them to play a frame (or with one in the squad) that they dont necessarily like, to succeed farming in. I've seen a lot of players (mostly new ones) stop at a wave 4 or less claiming "Oh no, Saryn left/disconnected, there's no way we can go to wave 8 without her." without even trying. About relics, even if I was against all form of additional rewards before, I'm kinda ok with the suggestion 844448 gives here. Because existing normal Fortuna missions already give radiant relics. So greedy but lazy players will still do the normal Fortuna missions or normal Elite Sanctuary cause less efforts and same reward, greedy but challenge seeker players will do Hard Mode to get exceptional relics in rotation A but get flawless in rotation B and radiant in rotation C the more they do more waves in a mission, getting the same ennemies level than Ultra Mode, and finally Ultra Hard mode for challenge/fun seekers players where you have lower chances to get radiant relics with higher base level ennemies so greedy players wont feel forced to go in and wont ruin it with nerfs. That would be a good compromise for everyone IMO. Then that solves the problem. Does someone still find problems with that suggestion ? If you are talking about a different hard mode, you can make a suggestion to have another special one designed for people like you after we get this shortcut we asked for years ago, and I will be with you. But if you are talking about "the shortcuts to already existing Hard Modes" that are coming and that Pablo and Steve already explained the concept and whole idea behind it, then you didn't get or missed the whole idea behind why it's being released and for who, while arrogantly claiming that it was or should always meant to be a mode for greedy players. We will see (maybe) next week if DE went back on their words but as what we know at this instant, is that this is not a mode designed for greedy people as Steve confirmed it before saying there would be no more rewards but a mere ship decoration. Wrong. First and again, they are announced as shortcuts to difficulties that already exist but that players decided to ignore cause lazyness and not a new "system" or content (for now). Second, from what was announced, you will have to finish Normal nodes to access Hard Mode and you will have to finish Hard Mode nodes to access Ultra Hard mode. So while they do that, they wont be new players anymore and are supposed to have enough experience when they get access to each one but we all know that there will be cheese players that will ask for either a taxi or someone to do the missions for them to get to higher difficulties and hit the big wall while not be prepared for it. And third, it's was explained that it was not designed for new players. If someone seems to ignore things, is you (no offense) wich is ok, everyone can miss informations or do mistakes as long they realise it. We are not here to make fun of or ridicule but inform and find solutions. From what they explained, It will be the same star map, same planets and same missions but with just higher level ennemies, so if you were sitting in a mission of a certain planet, nothing will change for you, unless they changed that in one or two week. You always had options, just because you decided to ignore them dosnt mean they are not there. But I'm not against having more options if it's about more A.I. or more game mechanics that demands a bit more reflexes in missions. It will be locked behind completion of Hard mode nodes as stated from Steve.
  11. Yeah I know ๐Ÿ˜• I watched the stream with Steve saying that. But still, this is a forum so I'm just expressing my thought about it to see if it makes any sense for the devs. I love mods too for that too ^^ I talked about it in previous posts. And about more affinity, I'm really conflicted about that subject cause while I think that it will have the same effects as if it would be for cosmetics as to bring forced people and bring the line of loss interest or nerfs closer too, I dont like the effects of dark sector missions with bonusses +30% of affinity or ressources like Hydron or whatever who are too much used (abused) from players just to level up a frame to a maximum in just 20 minutes instead of playing different missions like we used tho, even more when it's a Nuke (saryn, volt, etc) frame that do the mission for the others to give them more affinity and even if it's cooperation in a cooperative game, I'm pretty sure, making the others afk during the nuke is not what was planned. So... it's complicated. Well we can only wait and see ^^ even if I think the "elite class" will be Ultra Hard mode. What I'm not against tho, is for new mechanics, more reactive A.I. or reflexes fight for Hard Modes or at least one. True, you are right saying that it can be a powerful driving force but it is only your personnal experience and our shared point of view while it is only a little fraction of player base that does that and where the others are just spoiled or carried. I mean, while brave and passionate players like you dont hesitate to do it the right way or how it's supposed to be without complaining on the forums (And you have my respect for that), in reality, lot of players dont have the same motivation, tenacity and point of view as you. They will just say "it's too hard and i'm too proud to look for help" 'If I cant do it so neither the others can" or "it's a waste of time, but I still want it" and will complain on how it's too hard or long it is to get it to nerf it in a selfish way like they did before. Arbitration was originally supposed and announced to start at lvl 100 and got nerfed to lvl 60. I kinda agree since I heard and saw people actually buying Grendel or Protea to avoid doing the content as they found it hard and so "annoying" for later to complain they get bored by the lack of content, things to do and difficulty. But still, i think it will cause more problems if bringing more rewards into HMs IMO so let's see how it will be (maybe) next week. Wait and see.. ๐Ÿ˜• I appreciated reading your post, was refreshing ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ˜Š
  12. It's not interpretation but facts since you keep proving my argument. But from your "I personally also would like the same thing" dosnt that makes him not wrong just because he's sharing your same opinion ? While it's not really a matter of what one or the other side like, it's about what is good for the game's future in the first place. Making more rewards will just put the line of loss of interest for the game closer for everyone, where Hard Modes not having more rewards wont change anything since it will be future content that you wil seek once you finished farming the normal way, that's one of my point. Yes we have of course differents definitions of rewards, for some it's for example pure fun of enjoying the game where it is ressources or weapons or overpowered weapons, and etc for others. But it's not really a matter of what one or the other side like and who wants to be right to feel more smart or whatever, it's about what is good for the game's future and community (cause most dont know themselves what is really good for them) in the first place. Making more rewards will just put the line of loss of interest for the game closer for everyone. Some people may not want to bother about that cause they just treat Warframe as a tool but we do care cause we genuinly love WF. The problem with cosmetic(s) as reward again is that it will grow the competition "I have it and not you" thing from players and makes other people feeling forced to do it or new players saying "OMG I WANT IT" or attract collectionnist where they will hit a big wall and ask for nerfs like it already happened before, ruining Hard Modes we asked for other reasons. That's why I'm against all forms of reward, even ship decoration.
  13. Read all the posts that I wrote and prove it. All I read in your post is "stop acting, if you are not like me it mean's you are fake". "Stop it ! I dont have arguments but still wants to be right" And get over it, it's still already planned (while it's not) I will have what I want !". I'm here to ear intelligent arguments or intelligent counter arguments, not immature sayings like "I'm right ! You are not and that's all".
  14. And why are people refer to jobs being the same as entertaining games now ?? A job, wich is, in most cases, an obligation, is to make money, either greedily to have more things or by necessity to feed their family and survive in a world mechanic that you didnt necessarily agree with but are forced to. In more rare cases, its by passion. But in that particular case, your primary payment is FUN or even MORE FUN for harder difficulties and satisfaction itself before money. When you do a job you really love, When you feel passion you can be just happy with what less you get paid for, because it's compensated with the feel of satisfaction/happiness you got doing what you love. DE are passionate people (unlike other industries like EA that are just after money), that's why we loved the alpha and stayed. The difference is that you guys plays it just because it got more and more popular and in a time where popularity = all, you feel forced to play it (some already admitted it), otherwise, you wouldnt complain about rewards or having to actually play the game the normal way to get them. This topic is a proof of it. We are happy to have more and more people playing with us on Warframe but not when they act more and more like spoiled children (no offense to anyone, just didnt have better exemple) and ruin the game genre (cooperative) with that attitude. And so, a game is made to have fun, relax and enjoy a peaceful moment after the obligatory work you put while being with other players that feel the same way. You are not supposed to feel forced to play a game or even supposed to feel doing effort to play one. You wont find yourself in the streets if you stop playing unlike jobs. Playing is not an obligation or duty, it's an hobby. I'm astonished and feel sadness that so much people dont even know what the word fun means, Am I still on earth ? ๐Ÿ˜ž All this sounds like as if some people didnt even know how they live or how life works. The "Basic human nature" in your example is just an excuse to hide the fact that you want your personal wish to become real, in short, it's selfishness and greediness (no offense). It's also basic human nature to be violent and killers. Most people kill/crush harmless species (simple little spiders for exemple) just because they are in front of them and annoy them instead of grabing them in their hand to put them out. Just because something is in the human nature dosnt mean we cant or dont have to control ourselves. It's called evolution (human progress) and being civilised or moderate. Some people work harder without necessarily ask to be paid more if they like doing what they like.
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