Azamagon

A simple one could be: When Loki attacks enemies in their back, he deals 1,5x weapon damage! A sort of "backstab" if you will (but works with ranged weapons too), which helps him in the offensive department, while still fitting his mischievous role, and synergizes well with all his abilities (as they all allow him to reposition himself, his Decoy and/or his enemies).

Joining the discussion about making Loki more supportive - sure, but I'd say make it more offensive and utility-based. I just don't feel it too fitting for a mischiefer to be so defensive. I think his Switch augment is pushing that far enough. So, some suggestions: Passive - Keep the wallcling bonus if you wish. But I'd also give him +50% weapon damage versus enemies he attacks in their back. Decoy - Let him recast to remove it early (on holdcast, at least). On Decoy death/removal, make it blind nearby enemies briefly, opening them up to finishers. Damage Decoy - Make the basic decoy (ie the non-enemy targetted one) also do the status-spreading when it is hit. Also, root the enemy if using the enemy-targetted version. Lastly, if enemies melee a decoy (either version), the status-application is applied in an AoE around the decoy. Invisibility - Is fine. Maybe let us remove it early via a holdcast? Hushed Invisibility - Either make this an exilus-augment, or make it add something extra (and rename it), like making it also grant added weapon status chance or something while Invisibility is active. Switch Teleport - Make it also pull in enemies around a swapped enemy or Decoy (but not allies) at the end location. Preferably in a non-ragdoll fashion. Holdcast to swap with Decoy automatically, if within range. Radial Disarm - On top of the disarm, also make it apply a duration-based debuff on all enemies in the radius (even affecting non-disarmable enemies), which does 2 things: 1) enemies suffer X% of their damage dealt back at themselves, converted to True damage-type, and 2) make them "silenced", ie unable to cast abilities. ---------------------------- If you wanna add even more offensive debuffs, like damage amplifiers and/or armor removal in his kit, sure, do that too - but I personally think it'd be a bit too much at this point, and they are slightly overused. However, my suggestions try to keep the abilities distinct and synergetic in a "mischievous" way, mainly with the additions to the passive, Switch and Disarm: Switch Teleport is all about positioning, so it also makes sense to have it help bundle enemies up. Disarm is the weapon-tampering ability, so damage-reflection and ability-blocking (to force their attack) makes sense. It also makes its natural Decoy synergy even better (and further so with Damage Decoy). The "backstab" passive also kinda ties the whole kit together - because other than crowd control for safety and shenanigans, WHY would you like to control them, or change your/their positioning? Well, this passive adds an answer to that: To potentially kill them faster (and the self-damage added to disarm directly helps with that too), which is more helpful in modern Warframe.

Could be fixed if they simply made the regular Decoy also spread status when it is attacked (when u have the augment equipped, of course).

I think this is the key! If all explosive attacks' Blast damage was instead converted into IPS (mostly Impact, I guess?), then the combined Heat+Cold element could be changed into something else entirely, something useful.

Wholeheartedly agreed.

I like that, clean and simple.

Im of the opinion that Banshee needs 4 overarcing changes: 1) QoL, such as onehanded casting etc 2) Something to help her stay alive a bit better, which doesn't rely on CC. 3) A change to her Soundquake so it fits better in her kit's otherwise rather gun-reliant kit. 4) Toning down the ridiculously excessive strength of Sonar (Sonar-stacking being the issue here). So, here's what I'd do: PASSIVE - Keep her silenced weapons passive, but add another thing: Enemies can't see Banshee further than X meters away (this could change depending on her actions, so crouching is a really short range, but sprinting increases her visible range). If she hurts them or they hurt her, they can see her for a handful of seconds regardless of their distance to her. This would give her a mobility/positioning-based pseudo-invisibility, which helps her survivability in a way that works excellently with Silence's functions, and Sonic Boom's pushback. #1 SONIC BOOM - Mostly just QoL here: Allow her to cast it and move at the same time. All enemy projectiles are also deflected forward by the boom, capable of hurting enemies. The deflection effect lingers in the air for 0,5 seconds after cast, which means it also has the ability to deflect hitscan shots! Instead of knockdown, make it stun enemies for an extended duration - still while pushing them backwards. Stun would work much better with Sonar's weakspots than knockdown does. #2 SONAR - Now functions like an aura, more similar to Silence, lasting 15/20/25/30 seconds. Recasting the ability refreshes the aura duration and changes out any current weakspot points (allowing you to "reroll" them if you get bad spots). Enemies leaving the aura keeps the weakspot for about 5 seconds. Augment remains the same of pulsating out new weakspot areas - but they can no longer stack on the same spot, just cover more areas of the enemy bodies. Could compensate this nerf by having the augment also add some more strength to the ability. Overall, this reduces the insane potential strength of Sonar by removing its stackability, but massively improves its QoL, no longer needing to recast it constantly when new enemies arrive. Making it an aura also improves its function as an enemy detection tool. #3 SILENCE - Can now be recast (and holdcast for a second to remove it). Recasting also restuns enemies within its range. Opens enemies to finishers by default, for as long as they are within its radius (even after the stun animation wears out). This removes some of its anti-synergy with modding for too much range, in regards to its CC-capabilities. #4 SOUNDQUAKE - This gets a rather heavy rework: Casts a singular Soundquake pulse (like with her current augment) by default. This deals some initial Blast damage, briefly slows down and lengthily debuffs all struck enemies. This lengthier debuff causes all enemies to "echo" out X% of the damage they have taken in a small/moderate area around them, including the initial damage from Soundquake itself. This gives it synergy in particular with Sonar, as shooting their weakspot while affected by Soundquake would give strong AoE damage on all your shots. All while still remaining a low level nuke. I dunno what i would do with the augment though.

Good thread, i agreed with everything here.

Not gonna lie, when I read the foreword, I was highly sceptical if this was gonna be any good - but you did good! Sure, it's a highly simplified version of his kit, but there is a certain beauty to its simplicity that I can't dislike :) There are a few interactions I think need changing or tweaking (more to that below), but the gist of your rework can totally work. Sidenote: I still think his current rift-functions can be salvaged (i'll give you a link to my own rework below, i would love your feedback on it!), but regardless, on to the detailed feedback: Rift Plane + Stasis effects: These two changes are lowkey genius, hehe. It keeps the spirit of the Rift Plane to a degree, but removes the major cheesiness of it, and encourages and allows active gameplay. I think the values are potentially fine as suggested too. However, considering how this "new" kit (revamped Rift Surge especially) would be rather energy-hungry, i'd also keep the energy-on-Rifted-enemy-kill (but lowered to 5 energy, maybe?). Banish - Make the healing effect and Rift planing apply to the caster too, for a duration. Also please don't remove the strength-boostability of the heal! I also love how Helminth-friendly your rework made Banish! Sidenote: Maybe Banish could need a new name? Rift Surge - This is no longer "perpetual" like the current version (since current Rift Surge applies RIFT SURGE on others on death, not "Radial Banish", as that requires un-Banishing them with his 1 or 4), which would be fine if it did something else too. Like, weapon-amping Rift Torrent effect, but for Limbo only. Then the augment could apply it for allies too and boost its power further. But suggested as is, is kinda pointless. Cataclysm - This honestly seems pretty solid, I guess? Seems fine by me. As for my own rework, here it is: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1345377-limbo-rework-suggestions-to-make-him-teamfriendly-less-cheesy-but-also-far-more-deadly/

I tried adjusting them all, thoroughly:

#1 Awesome! :) #2 I can see that. Ripline for long distance traversal, Wrathful Advance for a quick little distance burst and ofc the tasty critbuff. I personally put in Wrathful over Ripline, as Paralysis is neat for emergency CC - put i can see your setup being useful in the new Whispers in the Wall tileset, actually.

Sweet, glad you like it! :) On #2, i guess that'd be true. Im simply just of the opinion that support abilities in general need to be far easier to apply on teammates. #4 - Ah yeah, i entirely forgot to discuss about the stance >_< Her slide attack is really strong, but the regular combos need a lot of help, especially mobility-wise (forward combos really shouldn't stop your movement, for example). As for the durability bonus, i don't think it should last a long time when swapping to guns, maybe just like a second, then it quickly diminishes its effect (and immediately pops back to full strength when you go back to the claws of course). Because if the DR lingers even with the guns in hand, i don't really see anyone really using Hysteria for its claws... Thanks for the review :)

Ah ok, gotcha. So, if Ripline wete to become more fluid and reliable, i guess you'd be ok with the suggested Ripline's new grouping mechanism? It'd be extremely similar to Prolonged Paralysis after all, just centered wherever you aim it, rather than being centered on Valkyr. As for the Parazon spiderman-wire, i just figured that'd be the most logical place for it: You press X to hack (which utilizes the Parazon), X to finisher (on Mercy, yup, Parazon, so why not X for spiderman? :) Could be aim + X in midair to make it more delibarate and thus less prone to accidental use.

In what way? Her Hysteria is currently quite counter-synergetic with her kit: * Warcry grants a hefty armorbonus for her, which is pointless in Hysteria, as you're invincible during it. * Hysteria draining energy means that you are less inclined to use her other abilities. This is generally a potential problem for all Exalted weapons, but moreso for Valkyr, as it has an ever-increasing energy cost. With a healthdrain and her added health-as-energy passive, she is highly encouraged to use her whole kit, especially in close up and brutal melee... * ... and with that wonky "damage storing" effect on Hysteria, she is encouraged to RUN AWAY in fights when things get tough, very counter-intuitive for a BERSERKER frame! Berserkers basically live to fight, and fight to live. With health drain and health-on-kill, that moreso would be true than now. * Hysteric Assault further cements Ripline as the main Helminth-slot. Imo, Helminth choices should be hard to make. * There is no incentive to use finishers, despite that being one of the main niches of non-augmented Paralysis. * And i haven't even mentioned the stance itself! It too has big problems, mainly that her slide attacks makes everything else seem useless, compounded by the fact that her basic combos are hella clunky and have no good procs etc

Imagining using my suggested Ripline, I can see it being a pain to use for grouping, especially when compared to how Prolonged Paralysis functions. So i guess you and @Tiltskillet are right about Prolonged Paralysis, although I'd make the augment's grouping function a baseline effect of Paralysis at least. One old and more drastic idea is to make (the mobility part of) Ripline a thing all Warframes could use via the Parazon - say, by pressing X (or whatever your action-key may be) while midair? That way, Valkyr could have an entirely new ability to fill in her first slot. Back to the drawing board i guess? xD