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Everything posted by Deadoon

  1. Yes, calling people out and bringing people here with a massive wall of images and spam is a great way to support your argument. Especially when you call me hotheaded when you are doing the same thing here. He posted a thread that had no constructive content and was a repetition of an argument oft claimed. Do you want a full breakdown of why I called it an "edgy rant"? 1) Insulting the devs for making changes that were advertised and well received for months in advance, called them ignorant(and more) for making changes that many people were requesting. Ad hominem. 2) Claiming that the whole time he played the game was wasted. He enjoyed it then, so it wasn't wasted. You can't revoke enjoyment. They didn't take anything away from him, he has all that farmed gear and more. Sunk cost fallacy. 3) Claiming that nobody was requesting these changes, that is wrong, there was a huge pre-release support and he apparently missed it. Claiming that they did this for their will alone, which is wrong as well. False argumentum ad populum. 4)Complaining about particle effects, when those are liked by most people(with the exception of a few excessive ones), a tangential rant that they are using to push their view. Unrelated nonsense. 5) It is a "I'm leaving unless you make the changes I want!" Type post. It is an appeal to emotion with a undercut of low value blackmail. His arguments are that he was not personally informed of these changes, and is complaining that they made changes to a section of a game that he enjoyed a lot. He had no solution provided other than "scrap everything and make no changes". Edit: Additionally; I know I commited the Fallacy fallacy by making this post.
  2. Two things; 1) the upgrade you have is not a minor one, it is an utterly massive one as I demonstrated above. 2) The Mod profiling would be exactly the same, you'd have a gun that has an anemic(in comparison) primary fire and a supercharged bfg for a secondary. Without the final mod and more so with it(probably vile acceleration for a no riven build) the standard opticor would be outpaced by such a huge margin it would be insane. The build style I put above gives the same base multipliers for all the base damage(4.3 base, 2.5 from multi, and 2.65 from elemental totaling~28.5* damage) thus those can be canceled out because the multiplier is the same. From crits alone without the effects of that base multiplier and final mod(which I had posted the effect of already): The Opticor would do 3250 + 1300 or 4550 damage per shot average. 2 second charge time. 2275 dps before base damage multipliers or shared speed upgrades. The Opticor vandal is 1532 + 766 or 2298 damage per shot average, or 51% damage .6 second charge time 3830 dps before shared components. Proposed secondary 5436 + 2718 or 8154 damage per shot average or 179% damage 1.5 second charge time 5436 dps before shared components. To get the real dps you would need to multiply those by roughly 28.5 for the damage per shot and 1.83 for the dps, since they are shared they don't actually matter as the results are the same regardless. Proposal is 90% effeciency of original due to double ammo consumption, but has 239% the dps, while the vandal with this build as it is is 50% ammo efficient and 70% higher dps. That isn't consistency. That's a flat buff and more with that proposal.
  3. At this point, the complaints are turning to pure rage or jokes, case in point. If you aren't joking: Opticor has always had a place, it could hit hard enough to sometimes take out sortie(when they were added) bosses in an alpha strike. With the plains and vallis adding very tanky transports, a new role was added to it. It, with the right build, is one of the few weapons that can one-shot those transports, making the content that much easier. Against the field bosses of the open world, it is an off-meta weapon, used often but not the absolute best or most accepted choice, sort of like the vectis prime. The vandal on the other hand can take the mechanics of the opticor and scale it back to be useful against both weaker and stronger enemies, the latter taking a few hits. If it is weak, then almost every rifle in the game is weak, as it is literally among the strongest right now. It only really starts to lose against pre-combo'd snipers for single target dps(opticor for single target alpha strikes) and launchers for area damage. It acts as a very satisfying middle ground, giving impressive single target damage while spreading damage to enemies around at any range quickly. The opticor is a much more specialized weapon with roles at which it is good at, the vandal can handle more different situations with a stride. Just because something isn't the best does not mean it is mr fodder or weak. I use the vandal in sorties since I got it, I used it in arbitrations and such, it hits hard, it hits reasonably fast, and it spreads the pain to those around it without hampering my tempo.
  4. Channeling as it is going away. IT will be replaced with something akin to devil trigger, a super mode that improves overall performance of a frame and might be integrated with focus system. Also weapon balance, mod reworks, stance changes and other such things are in the further stages. This is only the hybridization of gunplay and melee.
  5. If it gets turned into another opticor you will have people complaining about it because they liked it as it is right now. If it was a direct upgrade to the opticor there wouldn't be any complaining, but it wasn't. Since it wasn't and there are people which like how it is now, there will be complaining if they change it.
  6. Ferrox is a weapon of precision, the vandal is a weapon of brute force. The ferrox will do more damage than the vandal if you can get headshots constantly and it does it's damage in a pinpoint precise beam. The vandal has a higher degree of consistency but less reward for precision, it has a very wide beam allowing for forgiving shots, but will often not hit the head unless shot over the target and generates an aoe that deals half the damage of the main beam on impact. They seem similar at first, but their playstyle and how/where they deal their damage is vastly different. Ferrox deals 350 damage, the vandal 400+200.
  7. What? That was the gun balance update which introduced the MR tier system, I was quoting that page.
  8. https://forums.warframe.com/topic/918482-shrine-of-the-eidolon-update-22120/ Tiberon used to do 60/shot damage with negligible crit/status it was reasonably powerful at the time, and with the update more so as well as the tiberon prime pushing it further. Yeah, I'm building weapons with low refire and high crit stats for full crit, the damage amplification is that good, the status procs might be nice, but even those get amplified by the crit damage unless they are flat stacking like corrosive, and there are much better weapons for those.
  9. The Opticor is very powerful, it actually is quite fitting in it's position as a top tier. It is literally the most powerful rifle in the game, and has stats that dwarf all but the most specialized single target weapons. It is unwieldy, and that is the cost of such power and specialization. Your vandal idea makes the vandal a flat upgrade, it grants it quick fire weak shots and absurdly powerful main blasts. Also your idea that critical chance isn't insane is telling you are missing how powerful those criticals are and how much they bounce of eachother at a fundamental level. The opticor was already a meta powerful weapon and a boss killer for some, this would push it so far beyond it would be obscene. Every normal(noriven) crit build will have 4 mods, Serration, split chamber, vital sense, point strike. Since we want high power, maximising the last few slot's power is important. Primed cryo rounds is a powerful mod by itself, so it should be there for optimal builds. 3 Slots remain. This is where things get messy. 90% elemental only grants a power boost of 33% for it's mod slot. Heavy Caliber gives a good 62% boost. Vigilante sounds good too more multishot, but it only grants 31% boost, and provides consistency over a 90%. Vile acceleration grants 90% greater refire rate at the cost of 6% total damage, pretty good. Hunter munitions is good, but it will be somewhat inconsistent and doesn't help with the alpha strike.Conditionals like Argon scope or bladed rounds might be nice but those are derived from the crit stats. So let's go with the top of those Heavy caliber, Vigilante(for consistency's sake, don't want any half damage hits) and primed cryo, and see how much of a boost the conditionalswork on each gun. Since multishot, elemental, and base damage amp are the same for all of these, those can be ignored, as the multipliers are the same. With a CC of 2.5* base and CD of 2.2. Argon scope will grant you a CC of 3.85 and Bladed a CD of 3.4. Vile with this build grants a loss of 3.5% and a bonus of 83% dps on every gun but that is more shots. Opticor 50% CC/ 5.5 CD basic. Crits give an average +225% damage amp. With argon active: 347% amp, DPS increase 37% With Bladed active: 375% increase of 46% Vandal 60% CC/ 5.72 CD basic. Crits give an average +283% damage amp. Argon 436% amp, DPS of 40%. Bladed: 470% amp, DPS of 48%. Not too different right? Here's your example: Proposed 90% CC/ 6.6 CD Basic. Crits give an average +504% damage amp. Argon: 776% amp, DPS of 45%. Bladed: 828% Amp, Dps of 53%. The proposed stats are quite absurd. The damage might be only 90%, the Cost might be twice as much but with 6x damage you are doing almost the same as the orignal opticor PER AMMO with less charge time and more consistency. With any form of higher amplification, the idea is destroyed further. Your proposal is basically a couple Opticor strapped to one another and then given a linked trigger. PS: this is why the soma was once among the best rifles, despite it having 1/3-1/4 the base damage of other good ones.
  10. Ferrox is a precision weapon with high crit low status(if built for main fire, throwing has no multishot and no crit, so it is completely different build) with 350 damage, the Vandal is a 600(400 main+200 Splash, which overlap on eachother) wide beam weapon with decent explosion for spreading damage. Both have their roles, the ferrox has a higher skill ceiling for use due to it will do less damage if you cannot consistently get those crit headshot mults. Which I mentioned, directly. Did you even read what I said?
  11. B Also note that every other one of those is a higher MR weapon, and MR is now the new balance point for how powerful weapon's stats are. The only exception is the prova because melee haven't gone through the full rework yet. The Opticor vandal is the same MR. Oh, and the braton vandal, the original vandal, had half the rate of fire of the original.
  12. Range mod at the cost of damage. Vandal is the second most ammo efficient, it is only less efficient in comparison to the standard. To you it might, but maybe you should use the opticor more. Both work quite well with hunter munitions, vandal even has more crit stats so it will get it even more often, and with the massive rate of fire boost, the luck of getting a proc is spread across more shots. The opticor is overkill, vandal is as well against most enemies, any damage that is over the enemies health is wastage. Those it doesn't kill in one shot can get a followup before the original even gets it's shot off, you use 2 of the most common ammo type for 1 really heavy enemy rather than 1, and move on to the next one. What does the ferrox have over the vandal, other than you can give up your primary for a little crowd control? The ferrox has significantly less single target damage, no splash damage, and better crit chance and marginally better crit damage. Oh and the thrown spear doesn't benefit from multishot or crit(to any notable extent) so it's significantly weaker if you build for the primary fire.
  13. Or a new opportunity. The old opticor isn't made obsolete by the new one, which I see as a net positive due to that means 1 more weapon that isn't just a MR fodder due to a new version. It does not tread on the opticor's obscene damage per shot, nor does it tread on the opticor's reputation.The vandal is a more toned down weapon in terms of per shot damage but more than makes up for it with the capacity for followup shots. The opticor has received many buffs in the past. I made my original one back when it was a 2.5 second charge up, no punch through, thin laser and a smaller aoe. Now all of those are improved.
  14. 1) Ignis hits everything with a limited range, opticors works at almost all ranges. Different roles, one is a low range crowd killer, the other is a point target destroyer. 2) it's a granular burst damage weapon. This sacrifices ammo effeciency for preventing too much overkill. 3) opinions, I find it smooth and reliable and a fun gun to use. 4) The opticor has similar splash sustained, and nearly triple the impact sustained. Additionally with the full range of it you can deploy those bursts of damage instantly from across the map. You have your taste in weapons and I have mine. This feels to me like a light cannon that rips apart everything in it's path if it doesn't take it out in 1, a second can be brought up at a moments notice. It has much less "waste" in it's design, derived from it's granular damage model. PS, it does 70% more damage than the ferrox to the final target, the aoe(200 damage) hits alongside the main beam damage.
  15. The opticor's aoe hits at the same time as the main damage against the same targets so you are only doing the punchthrough/graze damage: https://i.imgur.com/mZm6JGl.jpg The main damage is being reduced by shields, the magnetic is doing 350 due to the +75% vs shields that magnetic has.
  16. Are you taking into account the magneticit AOE for the opticor and vandal? Those can hit alongside the main damage. The opticor does 400 AOE, the vandal has 200.
  17. Channeling was a hold button action. You could not use it with anything but the melee weapon itself out. Quick melee is whenever you had something other than the melee weapon out, when you have the melee weapon active, you were using stance attacks. Quick melee and channeling are mutually exclusive. You even said and I quote " You could always, and I mean always channel your quick attacks" which is patently false. There is no such thing as a channeling attack, you were either channeling your attacks or you were not. The animations were the same in either case, just one had your energy glow and did channeling effects on hit while eating energy. You are thinking heavy or charge attacks which is a completely different matter. I am relatively well versed in game design. Player limitations are a key point of how the flow and balance of a game is directed. The clunkiness is that you had 2 results of switching weapons, either hold it down and switch to melee or press it and switch to gun. If you held it down for too short a period of time you'd get your other gun rather than melee, or if you held for too long you'd get your melee rather than gun. In either scenario you get the completely wrong thing for what you wanted. And the same could be said of you. You don't like this update because it gave too many benefits to guns by giving them a greater access to melee, without realizing you can reap many benefits yourself by mixing in some gunplay with your swordplay. Maybe pick up a vectis prime or a haymaker-tombfinger kitgun to bring a long range addition to your arsenal, maybe even pick up the opticor vandal from this event, it hits damn hard and reasonably quickly.
  18. Those aren't quick attacks, those were your stance attacks, when you had stance attacks you had no gun available to you they were mutually exclusive; gun and channeling. The LMB was channeling by default, you had to set, in the options menu, a button for dedicated melee attacks; LMB was channel, RMB was block, and E was Melee attack. You probably forgot that, don't call people out on your mistaken memory. Swapping weapons left you vulnerable and was shared with your primary/secondary swap if you didn't hold it for long enough you might switch your guns out and leave yourself vulnerable further. If you don't realize the concepts I mentioned, you aren't as experienced or skilled as you claim to be, or do not truly understand what . The swap animation being clunky and caused an unnecessary interruption in combat, it could mess up and you could switch to the wrong weapon unintentionally making the disruption worse. If you thought melee was weak, you really don't understand them. Guns were powerful, yes. But so was melee. Melee though was much more situational. Now those situations where melee can be mixed with guns at full power grants a greater deal of flexibility, and with the instant switch; versatility. Oh you changed things while I was typing Edit: 1) Blocking is very directional even now, you must have your melee out and it slows your movement while under fire from the direction you are blocking. If you didn't know this you haven't actually played the new update. 2) Blocking was rarely used by the majority of players due to the mobility loss involved, you were much better of charging in head first and killing them, you probably would even take less damage. 3)Those numbers I can guarantee are BS, the vast majority of players used guns. They used melee when the situation demanded or not at all. Additionally it didn't gimp melee players as much as you claim. The hyperbole is palpable. I used guns and melee, switching as the situation demanded. That's the point of having multiple weapons equipped, they cover the weaknesses of eachother. To call me a gunner or to call me a melee player would be wrong.
  19. Full hybrid combat. Your blade is no longer something you need to dedicate yourself to for the most effect, you can mix it in with your gunplay fluidly. Channeling is no longer a restrictive mode you must put away your gun for. You are no longer vulnerable when switching weapons. You are no longer at the mercy of long range enemies with a sword out. You can choose a melee weapon around your gunplay or a gun around your melee weapon. Simple, you couldn't bring up a channeled melee attack and go back to gunplay in a fraction of a second, that is what opens up new playstyle. You couldn't chain together melee and gunplay with any sort of smoothness or consistency. Whip-swords were anemic swords with their old quick attacks, now they can do their full whip strikes and be followed up with a two-shot to the face after being pulled in. Gunblades can bring up 1-2 status proc combos while still having a crit gun out. Heavy blades and polarms can now get you a good damage closer range heal while you continue to gun down those at range. I am playing in a completely different method than before. The ability of fluid control is better than ever. Yes, you can play DMC pure one way or the other, just as you can warframe. It works best with a hybrid of the two though. Style swtiching, weapon swapping, animation cancelling and more benefit from a mix of gun and blade. If you never hit E in warframe you never bring up your sword, if you unequip your guns, you can even go pure melee now. If anyone doesn't understand this concept it is you. Tldr: pocket heals, support weapons, 1-2 combos, rapid situational adaption, sense of immediacy and control. Edit: You can turn that on still, also that "feature" was never default. Left click was normally channeling.
  20. Ah, thats the problem, you are stuck in a single playstyle. This update cuts off a few playstyles to an extent but opens up many more. This is a case of you narrowed the entire game down to a very small set of components, and when something came around to change one of those came out it ruined your flow. That was what the notice screen that popped up told you about. Things were changing. This game is in a sense of never ending development you should have expected something to change eventually, especially with all the 2.0s, replaced or removed game modes, and even entire system reworks out there. What is the status quo today may not be next update. The soma was the king of rifles for a long time, and now is merely a decent gun. Bursas used to be event only enemies, now they come out as specialist annoyances or even common enemies in vallis. The ignis used to be a red grakata. The ogris was a weird box thing. The tonkor used to do (almost) no self damage and knock players around. In short; We DMC now. I liked that video for the simple fact of that was impossible in the old system and a fraction of what you can do with the new one.
  21. Huh, thought it was only proper energy weapons, because the atomos doesn't consume half ammo. Thanks.
  22. Without critical hits, since that puts it more in favor of the vandal. Ignis wraith has 35 damage per shot, 8 rounds a second consumption with a 200 round magazine and 1.7 second reload 50 seconds firing, 51.7 seconds for full dump and reload. 97% active firing time, 271 dps average. Vandal has 400 on hit + 200 AOE damage per shot, 1.67 rounds a second with an 8 round magazine and 1.4 second reload 4.8 seconds firing with 6.2 second total. 77% active firing time gives you 517+258 DPS - 775 against an enemy hit by both. The vandal's hitscan long range aoe does slightly less damage than the ignis wraith at a fraction of the cost.
  23. Fully charged it does 400 damage for main beam, punching through an enemy without triggering final impact(splash+main) grazes the enemy for that 400 damage. The splash is 200, not 400,Wiki is wrong on that part. https://i.imgur.com/mZm6JGl.jpg unmodded, the 370 is the main beam modified by shield resistances(and evidenced by the proc), the aoe is at 350 because shields take 75% more damage from magnetic.
  24. Left click to attack is a legacy feature, you chose to make it a button that works as either shooting or melee attacking. That feature was never default or standard and you had to activate manually for a long time. Now it is specifically stated as a way to "preserve one aspect of the older melee system". You did something that you are now complaining about.
  25. If you meleed in the old system it brought you out of zoom anyways, you had to left or right click to go back to scanning. Or you had to hold it. New system does the exact same thing. You melee it brings out your melee weapon, you right or left click and you go back to the thing you had in your hand before. Holding it will still bring it back as soon as the attack is done.
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