[They need to get their head out of the sand.]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Jack_Mahler said:

We aren't acceping it. As you can see, people are stil complaing, but other that, what else can we do? Go on strike? Hold the devs at gunpoint until they do what we ask?

We can continue to be vocal and be more selective in our praise for DE, more reserved. Be more conservative with our time and how we spend it playing certain game modes. The Lich for me are my big gripe, so I play less of it.  Be more conservative with how we spend our money. I am guilty of spending money on DE, buying every PA since Trinity Prime. I really was looking forward to Ivara Prime, and I will admit, I am on the fence,  and may well end up being hypocritical of myself and buy her. In my head I know I should not, in my heart, I wanna bad.

[They need to get their head out of the sand.]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

That's not me. I can spell "entitled". 

See? 

Seeing as you have nothing to contribute to a discussion, rather acting like a troll, you sir can "Tinkle Away" I can admit fallibility and typos. If that makes you feel better that you got one on me with a typo, you sir have bigger issues than you realise. Good luck with that. I am done with you.

[They need to get their head out of the sand.]

3 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

Honestly I have no idea what DE are thinking, but seeing that their bussiness model has been successful so far, I doubt that they are willing to compromise anything for higher quality gameplay. Why take risks ? They have had a steady run through all these years.

Now we can do what you said, but unless it is a significant amount of players that leave(and I don't think that'll ever happen as long as DE keep tinkering with the game) they just won't care. Sad but honest truth. 

But on the flipside, I actually think the two big incoming updates(Railjack and New War) will have to deliver(although I have serious doubts about Raijack), otherwise I feel like there'll be a significant downsizing in the playerbase till the next big thing, and looking at their road map, there is no next big thing up until the New open world, which most likely won't release till next fall.

Agreed, however "So Far" is the opperative word with their business model. DE have had their success flourish initially based on the banked and traded good will of their Veteran community as far back at least 2015. Since their claim to fame Time Square Bill board experience, I have noticed as I am sure many other have as well, a shift in DE's attitude and approach. I personally do not think it is for the better.  I would imagine many others think the same.

As we have seen many darlings in the industry have lost their communities to smaller issues, some bigger mind. The point is DE is not immune to failure due to their own new found arrogance. It bit BioWare, EA, Bethesda, and a few others in the arse. Those of us clamouring now are hoping to stop that from happening before it does happen. We know it "can" happen, but will it. That is for DE to decide.

[They need to get their head out of the sand.]

4 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

RNG and Grinding might not be content, but they are a necessary part of life for a large, perpetual experience game. That much is simply reality. See also: Minecraft, the single biggest game in the world, has a gameplay loop predicated almost entirely around grinding for resources.

Ultimately, any changes DE are making are behind closed doors. There's no way to meaningfully predict the Lich system's future. After all, Archwing, the whipping boy of abandoned Warframe content, is receiving a wealth of new content alongside empyrean and recently received a rework. Anything's possible.

Ahh see, you hit the nail on the head. They are making changes behind closed doors. Remember when DE was transparent, they actually communicated with their community, told them what is really going on. What plans are being made, how our feed back is genuinely being considered?

DE has stopped doing that. It is coming to bite them in their posterior. If we could be given genuine sensible feed back as to why our suggestions are being ignored. Tell us that they are being postponed but real effort will be made to redress those issues down the road and actually follow through, 90% of the threads that deal with DE feed back right now would disappear.

[They need to get their head out of the sand.]

2 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

No, they haven't. Old Blood needs large amounts of work, and DE have somewhat had their hands full of late, indeed with a project that will include some of the fixes. Among the many, many problems of the lich system is how worthless converted Liches are, and lo and behold, converted Liches are slated to be involved in the Command system when that gets implemented. They've also said that Empyrean will eventually re-integrate the Lich system in interviews, although those are even more subject to change than most DE announcements.

DE has made many promises, and failed to deliver. We will have to hurry up and wait to see what comes of any of their promises, boasts and claims. The Old Blood is nothing that was promised over the years of its inception, that too is on DE. When a Lich is not a Lich, but you the Tenno are made a Lich, there is a problem. When the Lich is supposed to be a Nemesis, but it just a mild pain in the arse, there is a problem. When RNG and grind are said to be content, there is a major problem. When all of these issues combined, to what has potential, but instead ends up being a pale joke to what it should have been, there is a problem, and it is ALL on DE that decided it would go the way it has. I make no excuses for DE anymore for what they chose to do, how and when they release it. I will just point out what they are doing has consequence to their community and standing. What they decided to do with that knowledge is up to them.

[They need to get their head out of the sand.]

8 minutes ago, Troposphere6 said:

Your use of tone and language would indicate otherwise but it doesn't really matter to me. As others have pointed out not doing what you want when you want it is not the same as ignoring you. For instance they are probably well aware of the complaints about old blood as who isn't at the moment, but having given themselves a hard deadline for have the railjacks pilot-able by the end of the year they might be placed in a situation where they do not have enough staff to fix the problems before railjack gets released. 

It is not a matter of what "just" I want. There are many many people critiquing the same issue. DE is wholly responsible for the $hit show they have created. Old Blood was a buggy mess with many faults. It has/had potential. I am sure Empyrean on surface will be wonderful on release, but I bet pound to a penny it will be buggier than Old Blood with many more faults.

I have seen enough feed back to recognise where there is a consensus, and a critical mass of consensus that would make a majority of people satisfied. DE seems to go out of their way lately to go against that. All of the problems and critiques levied against DE are of DE's own making. Maybe it is time they listened more?

[They need to get their head out of the sand.]

1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

I agree, but I'm trying to keep this as factual as possible. But, unfortunately, two months primarily dedicated to something else is not a likely amount of time to do anything.

DE has had ample time to fix several of the problems with the old blood. Case in points the Anthem levels of fun we had hunting Lich as a co-op game insensitive to help one another when we got a little Kuva, some murmur traces and a req mod. That was too much fun for DE so like Bioware they turned that off post haste.

Then there is the duplicate situation. DE half assed it with the Valence system which only redresses superior weapons, but not the innumerable crap duplicates you can expect to get through the hunt. Had DE listened to the feed back, they would have found numerous suggestions that would viably fix both problems and would insentivise the game into being replayable. Would DE consider that? NOPE.

[They need to get their head out of the sand.]

2 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

For all we know, they are already iterating on Old Blood behind the scenes. Game development, especially on the level Old Blood needs, is not a fast process, doubly so when they're trying to get another update out.

And, no, there really isn't a consensus. Just look at any endgame thread. If one doesn't fizzle away in inevitably results in two sides arguing over what endgame is, if Warframe should have it, or even if it's supposed to be difficult.

"Iterating" how about calling what it is, Fixing the S#&$ they made so it does not suck? Iterating same as version. It should not have been an issue to begin with. They had 2 weeks of feed back before a certain Novemeber Update paid insulting lip service to the Update. Then now it is a month, and we might expect another month before they redress any of the Valid critiques and suggestions the community has given DE regards Old Blood. Let's be real, it will be swept under the rug like every other game mode DE has made. Empyrean will be no different.

[They need to get their head out of the sand.]

2 minutes ago, Troposphere6 said:

You seem to have a lot of rage for no real reason I think we can all agree that old blood was not the best decision ever made and was just a time buying measure so empyrean could have more time in development. The Devstream was a mess because they decided to use under leveled gear on a higher level mission and the fixes for that aren't too difficult according to what steve said at the end of the dev stream. Also it might be beneficial to remember just because a large group of people think something is a good idea it might not actually be one. 

You seem to project your feelings onto others. There is no rage in me mate. Maybe a lot of passion for a game and a company I really enjoy. I have real dogs in the fight as I have chosen to support DE with their PA since Trinity Prime. I would like to continue to do so. However DE as of late has not been holding up their end of the bargain. To ask for community feed back so blatantly then not redress it back to the community with Radio Silence is not being a transparent good faith game developer.

[They need to get their head out of the sand.]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

"Listening to feedback" doesnt mean that they have to agree with us on everything and it CERTAINLY doesnt mean that they should be expected to achieve everything everybody wants them to. 

 

We want "good rewards" but we dont want "power creep". 

We want "sustainable content" we cant blow through in an hour but we dont want RNG or grind. 

We want "reasons to play" but we dont want RNG or grind. 

We want content released RIGHT NOW ALL THE TIME but we dont want bugs either. 

DE does not need you making excuses for them. They have been in the business long enough now to know how to avoid every one of those mentioned pit falls. Every one of those points you mention is of their own making. DE is wholly responsible for the hole they are in with their community. They have banked and traded on the good will of their community since 2015 at the least, and have squandered it since they got their bill boards on Time Square.

Power creep has been an on going issue with Warframe since it's inception, people have asked them to redress it for many years, it still festers.

DE could have made sustainable content with the OLD Blood, people gave them a ton of advice on how to make Old Blood live up to its potential. DE has ignored it.

DE has promised to reduce grind 3 years ago, all they have done is increased grind and RNG calling it content.

We want content that is polished when it is ready to be released. Instead DE continuously half asses, half focuses, half bakes content, releases it in a semi finished state then forgets about it. Again See the Old Blood. What makes you think it will be any different when Empyrean is released. Or Duviri, or the New War? DE does not need your excuses for them. DE need's to get its act together and actually develop and deliver content in an efficient and sustainable manner.

If they actually spent 10 minutes and redressed half the issues we gave them feed back on regards Old Blood, it would be enough to keep the community of DE's back to actually do Empyrean right. Will they do that? Hell no. That makes too much sense.

[They need to get their head out of the sand.]

On 2019-12-11 at 8:46 PM, Loza03 said:

As I pointed out way back when - what choice do they have? What feedback do they take into account? They get thousands of posts every single day, and need to please as many out of hundreds of thousands of people as they can. Remember the Orb Vallis debacle? That was some pretty immediate change, the opposite of radio silence and people still weren't happy - I'm still not happy with them, personally.

It's difficult to be up to scratch, when it's nearly impossible to know where the scratch actually is.

As I pointed out, DE has been in this business for over 20 years, worked on Warframe for at least 7-8 years. There has been a consensus of feed back given to them to redress. If they even mentioned the reasons why they would not consider some of the feed back would content many of the community that has expressed their views. DE has not done any of that. 

There has been enough consistent feed back given the Old Blood update that DE could take into account and fix relatively easily and make the Old Blood live up to its potential, being an enjoyable replayable and relatively systems complete game loop. DE has not done any of that. In fact if DE were to have focused on Old Blood when they had the chance, there would be less recourse when DE fails to deliver on Rail Jack. After the recent Devstream is anything to go by, they should take more time on that.

[They need to get their head out of the sand.]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I can't decide if it's funny or just sad that you actually believe that bs. 

Your shepherds are probably looking for you. 

That is ok, you can live content with your head in the sand mate.

[They need to get their head out of the sand.]

On 2019-12-11 at 8:37 PM, Syln said:

So basically : they didn't answer or act in response to my feedback or feedback that i agree with so they don't care about every single feedback given to them therefor i demand that they stop telling us they care about feedback because i say so ! who's with me ?

Speaking of being entitled.

Wow way to misrepresent anything mate. If you care to take a deeper dive into several forums, Reddit, Youtube, there is a collective consensus of Feed back DE has been given and failed to redress. No one has demanded anything. There has been a Metric ton of feed back given to DE as ASKED for by DE. DE then has the nerve to say they would address said FEED Back then magically pull two points out of the ether in their Devestream that redressed nothing that has been consistently mentioned in community feed back. That is being disingenuous on DE's part and yours for supporting that behavior, sweeping it under the rug.

[They need to get their head out of the sand.]

8 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

They are also solely responsible for every success mentioned in many of these threads. In other words - they are not perfect. They are also not, as you might suggest, not terrible. Unless we do take into consideration feedback, but again, it's impossible to isolate every success to them taking feedback or every failure to them not, or vice versa either.

Great we are kinda on the same page. The fact remains lately, DE hasn't been taking any serious feed back seriously. They have been radio silent, or disingenuous with the feed back they say they have received and redressing. We the Realistic critics are only too happy to point out DE's positives, though lately there have been way too many negatives not to redress. We are not clamouring for the sake of making noise either. We love DE and wish to see them every success. But to do so, they need to take into account that lately their behavior is not up to scratch and they need to improve so they can continue being the darlings they were.

[They need to get their head out of the sand.]

3 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

An extremist, when presented with a moderate view point, perceives it as extreme.

A forensic analyst doesn't make a guess. A forensic analyst takes forensic information, including DNA, traces of clothing and other articles of hard evidence and narrows the search for other criminal investiagtors, or provides further evidence for lawyers. They do not actually make the call on who committed the crime, as they cannot.

Psst, I am not attacking the man, just the argument. I am not Chicken little mate. There is also Archeological Forensics. Don't be exclusionary. The point is there is enough evidence if you look to see what DE and their management have been up to. Please don't make excuses for DE when they are solely responsible for every Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo UP that has been mentioned in many of these threads. They can handle their problems with out you having to be a cheer leader for them.

[They need to get their head out of the sand.]

1 minute ago, peterc3 said:

Quoting something would lead one to believe you were responding to the quoted passage.

Nothing in the game is immune to changes. OP said their main issue was their favorite frame was changed. This is a reason to never start playing the game, not "step away" from it, well into playing the game.

My response was to your sacrosanct remark. When DE makes a promise about something and do the exact opposite of it, and let's face it DE has been guilty of this practice for quite a while. Also OP said there were several issues and reasons why he is stepping back, not just that his favourite frame changed.

[Unhappy with the Community Management]

If you think that is fishy, I have had threads merged with no explanation, and my content structure rearranged with out explanation. I did not think that was permissible either, but apparently so.

[They need to get their head out of the sand.]

53 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

So you somehow started playing a game that is explicitly under development and are complaining when your favorite bits are developed. What lead you to believe your favorite part of the game was sacrosanct?

Perhaps when DE made the promise that they would do everything that they could to reduce the grind. I can not find the relevant Devstream, but there have been multiple instances of them acknowledging that request and them saying they agreed. Instead DE has done everything in their power to do the exact opposite.

[They need to get their head out of the sand.]

3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Are those games as big as Warframe? Do they run on the same engine? In fact, are those games running on proprietary engines, or licensed ones which are generally much easier and faster to develop for, at the cost of greater expenses and less freedom to modify them? Are those games the same Genre, some are easier and faster to develop than others. Are those games single-player campaign experiences or perpetual ones? Even the camera angle makes a difference since a fixed or zoomed out camera angle allows for far easier graphical work than a player-controlled one like DE's.

Did DE have 3 years of work time to make the King Pin/Lich system a reality, did DE have just over 2 years to make Empyrean, which we all know will be a $hit Show on release, become a reality? The answer being yes to both, means DE has ZERO excuses left. EVERY problem the vast majority of feed back and critics have given, has and is the sole blame placed squarely on DE's shoulders. DE does not need YOu making excuses for there Piss Poor Performs, because they did not Prior Preparation and Plan.

[[Kuva Lich] Thing that made me don't want to do kuva lich anymore]

1 hour ago, MirageKnight said:

Ugh yes, the Vacuum debacle - thanks for the reminder.

Also, Vivergate. It took a massive uproar to get that sorted out.

I remember that all too well.

Completely agreed. I think that them being owned by a large conglomerate hasn't done them any favors in terms of attitude and discipline.

Making it big with the revenue to afford Ads and bill boards on Time Square is where I think their success has gone to their heads.

[[Kuva Lich] Thing that made me don't want to do kuva lich anymore]

On 2019-12-08 at 4:20 PM, WhiteMarker said:

And that's why you can trade for Liches.

Want a specific weapon? Buy a Lich with said weapon.

Don't want the weapon of your current Lich? Convert it and sell it to someone who still needs the weapon.

And farming requiem mods is easy...

Is the Lich system perfect? Hell no. But if you don't want to use what the game offers you, then that's on you and not on the game.

You mean slave trade your lich, so it can be safari trophy hunted? Which in addition to is a tacit t admission by DE that they made a crap game play loop and system to begin with. Here, trade a slave instead and get what you want. Well done DE. WARFRAME! SLAVERS Play for Free!

[Harrow Prime? Is it...]

1 minute ago, Xaero said:

That would be more than 3 years since Harrow release date.

I stand corrected. thankyou.

[Harrow Prime? Is it...]

1 minute ago, BansheePrime said:

Nova Prime jumping in line says hi.

Don't be disingenuous. There have been several exceptions to the rule, Mesa Prime being another. DE has been known to swap a frame out around Xmas time due to popularity and sales reasons. Harrow does not fall into that time frame. For all that Beauvine Scatology you just spewed, the release schedule pretty much holds true.

[Harrow Prime? Is it...]

39 minutes ago, CraftimirGaming said:

Is the reason we don't have a Harrow Prime at the moment because your gonna do some kind of Quest along side it? Like more information on the man in the wall or something along those lines. DE please answer I would be extremely happy and forgiving of you if that's the case...

You really are new to warframe. You will not have a prime until he reaches his release date. DE releases 2 female, and 2 male Primed frames each year based on the order of their original release date. It is typically 3 years between a release of a frame and its prime. Hurry up and wait. So you know Harrow Prime will not be a thing until September 2021.

[DE supposedly only listening to "specific" feedback regarding Liches]

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