Takai
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Posts posted by Takai
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As a woman interested in both genders, though my preference is other women, my personal opinion on this is that woman are, all in all, more pleasant to watch run because of the more curved features. Watching a male character run just isn't the same. Not to get too meta but male characters are based off a power fantasy not a sexual fantasy (general male hetero sexual fantasy,) the only variance I've seen from this has been some final fantasy stuff and the playerbase kicked up a big fuss and made them tone down the sex appeal of the male characters.
I'm not trying to turn this political, my point is, in a roundabout manner, when you watch a female character move, it is fluid and more likely to be visually appealing whereas watching a guy warframe run is like watching a refrigerator move.
As per the final fantasy mention it is 100% possible to make the male warframes just as pleasing on the eyes, but it makes some members of the playerbase uncomfortable and you end up with a lot of complaints, as well as it is dependent on what the artists are interested in doing with the frames.
I'm not big on final fantasy but I really liked the pre-modified male characters personally. They had about the same ratio of sex appeal as the women. Something to note, this does not mean they had a huge package because that is, again, the power fantasy at work. They were more lean, with more skin showing, strategic clothing that seemed as impractical as some of the stuff you see on video game women. Other than secondary sex characteristics there isn't a whole lot of difference between what looks sexy on a female character and on a male oddly enough. It's just getting 58% of the playerbase comfortable with that.
Personally, I think you could make the ugliest warframe imaginable and if it was top end material, people would still play it. Although how many people play vauban (that's a shot in the dark, no idea if he is top end.)
Well said! I am in a similar paradigm with games (if they let you choose). I remember it was (I want to say but dont hold me on trial here), Rick Baker saying at the Zbrush Summit this year that, "Female energy is creative energy"... and yeah, I have been on the page for years now.
With that said, sometimes I have to stop myself from gettting frustrated at the popularity of Overtly sexualized female heroines in games and Non-existant sexualization of male heros. There are clear patterns and its as old as classical sculpture itself.
For example, you can break down ALL popular super powered characters onto this base platform:
Zeus? or Venus?
I choose Venus as my hero(ine) but I can understand why MANY choose Zeus. I think alot of people would benifite from recognizing why they choose super masculine Zeus or a hyper sexualized Venus (just understandind why they would feel that way about a character, or why they would idealize them), but the roots of these fascinations run deep to humanities core. I can even understand why people would subconsciouly dismiss it all together.
What I get a kick out of the most is characters like the modern Lara Croft (she is mentally and physcially strong! and yes the origianal one too, she was rad but they had to bait the player demographics), character's like Faith (Mirror's Edge: yes, cunning, agility, and bravery ftw, like 15% focus on sexualization; she has a flawless face), and many of DE's characters, such as the Lotus (the mastermind of the Solarsystem, with some powers we dont even know about).
For me, its the path with a bit more gamble that worth treking... like for example; hyper masculine Venus (Ct Phasma anyone?) or a pure functional hero that is not what is typically displayed on TV dramas (again... tough and athethic Rei treking the desert with her staff lightsaber relic, very Faith-like). Im am super down for the hyper sexualized male hero just cause it super rare. Im not talking about Leasure Suit Larry, but more on the lines of Cloud. Bishonin is a very real thing and should be represented when creating heros, Anime abuses the heck out of it because it works. On that same note, Kenshiro (Fist of the North Star) super-hyper masciline attributes and tales of Zeus sell the tickets... people tend to react strangly to things they have little familarity with.
If it is about just money... Space Marine from the USA will always sell a ticket. The world worships Zeus, no doubte about it (and as silly as that can be). Critics can even call out the grasp of the low hanging fruit and it still works and gerenates sales.
Or one could be smart about it like Riot and DE and others, and offer choice, variety, and a roster of heros that suit your daily idealizations.
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This is a... not the friendliest thread, but whatever... Ill just ignore "negativity" and explore the idea with the OP.
If they do a fem and male version of each frame and for your concepts to be looked upon seriously:
It is highly advisable to to change some of the shape language as well as the general gender sillhouette (as you have done in OP's 2D concepts)
Ill high-light what I mean in more detail:
- Some shapes of the frames read gender, besides hip waist ratios, rib cage ratio, and shoulder ratio; those are major indicatiors but just changing those wont read properly
- A hard edged, boxy, and or large shape reads Male. Curved, soft, rounded, refined, and small shapes read Female.
- So for example, a female Rhino CAN have the appearance of hard skin/armor/warframe flesh, but the secondary shapes should read female in their majority (you have already demo'd how the primary shapes (silo's) read genders, and you did a fine job of that).
- Therefor, under this therory, Male ember and Female ember would have a small base similarity that reads Fire Starter, but past that it they would be radically different.
- How I would initially approach this?
a) Cross refrence a different animal set and or mechanical theme to go with the power theme.
b) MB said (this is rough quote), WF's concepts do not work until you refrence at least 3 different subjects
c) So for example, instead of refrenceing poisonous flowers and snakes with Male Sayrn, I would look at different poisonous creatures, like a Kimono Dragon or blowfish and mix it with a different mechanical element, like a nuclear reactor, or a old school crop duster (while of course keeping a picture of good ol' Excal up there to keep everything aligned)
d) In the concept refining stages, I would work hard and pay super close attention to the secondary shapes and make sure they read: gender
e) With this in mind, It would be a total start from scratch in terms of physicallity, to make it worth a player's time, and create something interesting and new. (on the gameplay/player programming side, at least one skill would have to be changed, Im thinking the 4th)
I honestly think its not a bad idea to implement (expecially with recent developments).
Bear in mind the similarities between Nyx and Excal and why it works that Ecal is the master of the sword and Nyx is master of minds... they are radically different but just have a sillo transfer. In all honestly, I think they tried it out and did not like the idea, and found it more interesting to offer more differentiated frames.
But if DE said a blunt "Naw, its a bad idea", I can totally respect that. Its their vision.
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Alad is just another puppet dancing on Operator's strings... its our Solar System after we vanquish the Sentients once and for all.
The Era of the Tenno has begun.
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I am going to take a firm neutral stance on this.
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Thanks for posting this cause now I know what NOT to do.
Seriously thank you!
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i think the person talking is an operator
Agreed. I would be bummed if my remote controlled car broke, even if I could buy another one.
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I wanna send gifts to DE.
I think you can buy DERebecca a little boggle for her ship. The lower the FPS goes when she walks her avatar in their direction, the more love the community has expressed!
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Ok so we are controlling drones so...
1. How do the Kubrows work with us? If we are not in the frame why dont the Kubrow just run away since there is nothing to put out that positive energy Cesar Millan mentions. Do Frames smell? How can a Kubrow tell who you are from the other frames in mission?
2. If frames are drones, why do they have secondary drones? Sentinels.
3.How was Valkyr "tortured? Shouldn't the kid have disconnected and gotten into another frame to save his other frame?
4. Will the Arbiters of Hexis quit being a Syndicate now that they know they are kids.
5. Is Tenshin a kid that woke up and was fine so there was no reason to lie?
6. If there was no Moon on earth... how do the tides move and wind and stuff?
More to come!
Ill take a wack at some of these and add to your list if you like, it could help dev's flesh this out with more content in the future:
Warning: Pure Spec!
A1) The Kubrow was born in your ship, it probally smells and knows the smell of the frame's metal flesh... and is loyal to that entity.
A2) The Sentinals can be an exension of your body... like a cellphone... a tool. You dont feed it, and it does not have emotions like Ordis.
A3) This is... kinda broken by the quest. A plot patch could be that since the frame was not killed, the operator was not disconnected, and maybe the operator feels the physical transferance of pain aswell as the emotional pain of captivity, hence throwing that kid into a rage.
A5) Maybe he was not. Maybe he could be a Tenno worshiper or an illusion of the Sents, I mean, he makes us fight each other. Divide and conqure.
A6) Broken... super broken but whatever. Plot patch for this is space magic. I mean, if the moon was gone before, Earth would be in a pinch to have jungles on it, or the jungles would look radically different than expected. We can break this even further and ask why Venus is not grueling deadly gravity mixed with a constant corsosive and poison proc on th player. Heck, why is Venus cold? Even further... Unanus being flooded with a fluid that can support some sorta shark and coral life (compressed liquid methane?). So, I am giving this a "Space Magic" fix... alot can change in 1000 years... or Ill toss "M Theory" at it and call it an alternate potential univsese, allowing for all possiblies to have plausability.
Now additonal questions:
Q1) Brainwashed Stalker?
Q2) So, we were asleep for 1000+ years? Hrmmmm.... Tree Children hybrids?
Q3A) Why did we rage and kill the Orokin? I know they were corrupt but by whose standards?
Q3B) Was that the "Nightmare"? A little tantrum? Or the Natah forfilling a portion of her mission before changing her mind?
Q4) Infested... besides us, what is stopping them from taking over? (this can be space magiced but I am just curious of DE's take)
Q5) What is to stop the Stalker from entering your ship and slaying you dead? Nothing prevented him from entering the ship during the quest. (space magic: the Lotus can do this too, maybe she can just kick his booty with the flick of the pinky, and he is cautious of that)
Q6) Sentient's motovation... I mean what do they want? Resouces? Food? More space (which is tricky cause extra-solar aliens have alot of options), why come to the solar system (orgin system) and mess with us?
Q7) The history of Phobos (which I assume will become Mars once they find the time to square that off). What happened there?
Q8) Do the operators age now? (again, Tree Children?, they are plugged into a Orokin tree thing, even in the ship)
Q9) Are the ancient Orokin completely dead?
Q10) The civillians of Warframe, where do they fall into all of this? We protect them or do we use them? Are they essensially the Corpus?
Q11) The elephant in the room after the can of philisophical worms is open: Are we still dreaming?
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That is the current belief I am assuming.
My question is... are the sentients beyond physical aliens?
I mean, in Natah and this new quest, there is talk of mind invasion, the frames are operated by "transferance"...
Sents and Tenno (and Lotus) two sides of the same coin?
I like this, it is interesting, REALLY good spin on the the worn in but never dulled space warrior motiff.
And at the Lotus model/appearance comments:
Crazy body! Beautiful! As a person who finds observing and appreciating female curves to be a reason to continue on existing... great execution!
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As someone who lives for 3D art assets:
This is so far my favorite WF design by far.
I am going to say one ignorant caveman thing to get it out of the way:
When the player is well... playing, in the third person staring at the back of their avatar, the shape of the booty matters. A plesant distraction is far more interesting and enduring to the eye. So with that out of the way, great job, I can look at this warframe in the 3rd person all day, all the shapes are very pleasant.
Casting aside caveman intellect, The combination of fantasy and tech is working working working. Her head... oh the shapes! Its like menacing robot but the hood makes her mysterious and shrouded.
I like this WF's physical design and direction ALOT. Big fan of shape pushing (probally the reason I was drawn to the game's artwork in the first place). Another good example of the game's art team nailing shapes was Equinox and yes, Trinitiy's rear piece. Nailing it!
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Yeah thats nice and all if you want to play some gender ambiguous child, but you know, I'd rather be an adult akin to the likes of Teshin and doing the fighting my self, not my Pokemon, not this baby hipster Avatar angle. I don't recall many comments of dastardliness in regard to Teshin either, he's generally portrayed and seen as a noble warrior.
I wonder if this is just DE dev's inside joke on how they perceive their playerbase. Frail, emasculate twerps, who spend all day in the basement sitting down and playing with their Warframes.
Amazing joke, couldn't have delivered it better less the update was released on April Fools.
Naw, Im right there with you as an adult player. Honestly, I would have had way more feels if the operator was like a chimp or a little dog that thought it was people.
I was just trying to rationalize the design decision because this is NOT my creation, NOT my art, and NOT my message. Judging it is honestly kinda pointless because it was defiantly worth revealing and players were waiting for it.
The plot hole that is kicking me right now is that they were asleep for 1000+ years or something (maybe not) and are not aging... and now we age (?). Oh and that stalker can get in the ship any time and kill the operator if he feels like it.
So I am assuming that this kid has 1000+ years of mental experience and tons of hours of war time... so It not really a child. Yes customizing the kid... initially was a kick where it counts. I had to let it saturate because I was in the camp of "I hope they are messed up alien things and the Lotus is a delusion"... you know, a great tragity.
I knew they were not humans in a suit (cause of the Valk arc, Frost's head, and the "living metal" references)... in videogames you cannot go wrong with the super suit, but its been done to death and if you want to do it in a interesting way you have to take a less traveled route. As far as them being frail... far from it. Your shooting laser beams out of your hands at sentients. The frame just focuses your power... which says alot about the operator. Plus... they have been sitting in the chair for tons of years, a plot devices that could easily be used it muscle attrophe.
Now viewing and critiquing this as an artist... Im critique the quality of the composition and weather it has a readable message, NOT the message itself. Critiquing the message itself is an indication of a fundamentalism. To me it was clear: You are the player and the Lotus is the game master; save the world. There was nothing obscure about it.
But did it make me cry? No. Space monkey would have made me cry.
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Actually I get it now.
If you are the remaining reminiscence of purity (I guess) in humanity, the best way to visually communicate that is with the image of a child.
The Grineer are warmongers and relentlessly decaying, ghost of war... pretty dishonorable.
The Corpus are merchants that religiously worship credit and perceived power.... pretty dishonorable.
The infested... deformations...pretty dishonorable.
They are all the things that can become of us... and we balance them. A possible message is that this is a new beginning for humanity (in this narrative of a potential universe).
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I did not tear up because... the child singing in the music was... too... campy, (ruined the end of Batman 3 *the Bane one* for me too). That is such a minor critique that it does not matter, it just honestly erased emotion and distracted me.
What I got a charge from was the ART! The moon, killed it! Just killed it! Fighting the Sents?! Killed it... so weird, it satisfied my weird alien desire, and those enemies are pretty cool looking and cool sounding.
The adjustments made to the sound scape: excellent, working splendidly.
The big reveal... yeah I we all kinda knew cause of what Alad V was doing in the Valk days, and it makes that one cutscene where a excal guy is decapitated a little bit better to bear (remember that?).
Just... I think I will grow to appreciate the underlying theme more as I play. I think the connection they want to bridge emotionally with the player is solid... I mean, its about the player, you are the player, the player saves the universe... I like it.
The more I poke at it looking for serious problems (life support is kinda minor, you can plot fix that ez), the more I see that direction as a good choice and the a perfect compromise with the player base.
They still leave some mystery there and thats cool, such as;
Glowing hand?
1000 years of sleep?
do we age now?
Can Stalker just slay us at any time?
And the ever popular... am I still dreaming?
The most profound question in conscious existence worth exploring.
Yeah, it did not ruin it for me, just was kinda weird seeing it unfold.
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If he found your ship and you are the way you are...
Death pretty much can occur at any time of his choosing.
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Just setup ur UV the way you want (2k x 1k), check your texture settings in SP (near the viewer settings),
Uncheck the lock on the square constraints (theres a better word, but where it forces 2048 x 2048, theres a little lock there) and you should be good.
On the export screen, make sure your using the size settings you want, and all should be well, there should be no weird stretching.
Also, use F1 - F3 to switch between the viewer settings, of UV 2D style, both, or just 3D model. Sorry for the late reply, wish I could have helped eariler
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Thank you for the comments ^^ really appreciate it!
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Substance painter is 20 bucks a month for 16 months then its YOURS for life. I would throw another 20 bucks at it because I have used alot of baking software and its just the bee's knees (next to MARI, which is 2000 bucks +)
If you have to choose... ummm use Xnormal's 3d Viewer to see what you are doing and to establish a clean initial bake, and use photoshops normal map editing plugin. Use em both.
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Had a blast working on this! Here is the original thread, I initially did not see the workshop section in the WF forums and I started postin stuff in "Fan Concepts"... anywhoo:
You can laugh at me struggling here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/558093-alt-helmet-mag-takaimo/
Or here: http://polycount.com/discussion/160838/alt-helmete-mag-takaimo
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Super Fun Contest! I loved doing it!
https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/558093-alt-helmet-mag-takaimo/
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*Chains her helmet to the ceiling*
I uhhh.... dont know how to respond to that.
EDIT: Oh, you mean like it looks like a car engine that you chain up when you are working on it. I c iC!
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kindy reminds me of
but with more of a princess leia stile
Thats a really pretty girl @u@. Even if that is a wig shes rockin, shes wearing it amazing.
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Post #4:
Here I do a group split, properly zRemesh to use SubD levels on each piece, start cleaning and defining and refining. Here the focus is Tirshirary forms. Here I want to try to be careful. This is a good study too, to see where MB likes to guide the eyes with tirsh forms in his designs, and try to emulate it.
I will just look at some WF references and study them while I work. I use a hard surface workflow. The floaty bits (the squarish things) are just a test... to see if I like them.
I added some to the IMM brush I was playing with. I nearly forgot you can turn these guys into alphas too. Here you can also use mask-> extract, then zRemesh the piece, and play with the zmodel brush on the piece or just sculpt it.
[Spoilers] My Reaction To The Update
in General Discussion
Posted
Exellent Line work! Exellent Story telling!
Yes that too was my initial reaction as well!
But then I let it sank, inquired about influences and refrences that may be present with the developers, thought about other ways to reveal, poked them with a sharp stick, then it hit me:
DE probally made the best choice for their vision of the game's future. Also... Giant robot is done to death but so beloved! We love our anime teenagers piloting Giant robots but theirs is a different way (and arguably way more creative) approach. I like the idea of humanity and its tools evolving, the mentally controllable marionete. It works.
Just...
A) They need to fix the operator's mission lines... they are too too too campy. I turned their voice off immediantly.
B) They can whatever they want, I am game, but I pray they avoid teenage rebellion traits as well parental rejection
C) The operator better not complain about piloting their robot like Shinji... that has been done. ZOE tried the daddy issue thing... and it fell flat and lost meaning.