Tsukinoki

Without actual knowledge about warframes financials you can't just disregard points because you don't like them. You can't just go "I don't like this system so they shouldn't have it and I don't think it should matter how much money it makes!" It just makes it out to be you're whinging instead of having actual points to use.... Further you're missing a very important piece of why crafting time is a thing and is in a 12/24/etc. pattern instead of just an hour or something like that: Player retention. Crafting times force the player to come back the next day, and the day after that, and the day after that, and the day after that, etc. After all you want your new weapon? New frame? Forma to make your stuff better? Come back tomorrow and continue playing then. Do that for long enough and the game starts to become a habit. Once the game becomes a habit you are far less likely to drop the game and far more likely to continue to sign into the game day after day after day, even if you don't have anything crafting in the foundry, simply because the game has become a habit to do that by that point. The building of items gives you a new goal, a new point to focus and wait on, as you do other stuff in the game and end up with a massive backlog of items that are waiting to be built and claimed. It gives you something to look forwards to and go "Oh yeah, in just a few days I'll have something completely new to try out!" Except that's not what the game is telling you at all.... And if you're the type of player to go "I'll completely ignore everything that I can do in the game because I only see this frame and nothing else!" then you're not the type of player that would stick around in warframe anyways. Even if you had a dozen instant craft frames, what would you do? You would build them, have them leveled.....and then what? I mean it doesn't seem like you want to actually play the rest of the game, you just wanted to build a few items....and nothing else. After all if you actually look at the game there is tons of stuff to keep the players busy and doing things while the frame is building. Having a weapon or frame crafting doesn't lock you out of the game in any way, and there are tons of things that new players need to do in order to actually make the new frame and weapon worth a damn. After all you have mods and resources and levels and factions and open worlds....and so much more than that. Especially since you can easily have a weapon or two in the foundry by the time you have your first frame crafting, meaning you have something to come back to tomorrow and likely the day after. And then guess what happens after that? Oh yeah, the new frame you were so hyper-fixated on. You're making arguments like the only thing that new players have to do is build some stuff when that can't be further from the truth. They have so much more to focus on that a crafting time isn't really that noticeable because you have blueprints to buy and farm, weapons to start farming resources for, factions to start leveling, mods to farm, open worlds to explore, missions to do, quests to complete, etc. And if the players can't see any of that and are turned off of the game because they can't have a Rhino instantly and that's the only thing they can focus on and pay attention to, they won't stick around warframe regardless because they'll get Rhino....and then what?

Ok, so please tell me: How do you reverse consumables? Or spent forma? Or similar items? Just do a full account revert? With an "Oops, someone traded you bad platinum 3 days ago so we are rolling back your entire account 3 days?" What about other trades made in the interim and other corner cases and issues with a revert like this? What if they bought forma, then spent that forma on clan stuff? Here's the thing: If you have negative plat and you spent that plat on cosmetics or other 'permanent' items DE will work with you to reverse those orders to get you back to the positives. You blew it on a bunch of consumables, such as boosters, or similar items that can't really be 'reversed'? Yeah, you're going to be on the hook for what you used as DE can't easily just reclaim the items.

Here is what generally happens to create "bad" plat: Someone steals credit card information (or generates a virtual credit card number) Someone uses that information to buy platinum from warframe They trade the platinum around to various people (usually, though not always, a form of RMT) The original owner of the card sees the purchase and issues a "charge back", where the card company will just take the money back from DE and give it back to the card owner. Note that this can cost a company like DE more than what the plat sold for due to overhead, etc. AND it puts a 'mark' against the company, too many marks and credit card companies are less willing to deal with the company and will charge them more for payments, etc. At this point DE has platinum in the system that was never paid for, so what can they do? There are really only two options: They can let the players keep the plat, in which case there is now essentially an exploit to generate infinite plat with throw away accounts and virtual credit card numbers. Obviously a company wouldn't want to do this because it's just costing them money. They can take the plat back out of the system And this is what DE does. They take the plat back, and they will trace this through the trades and take it back from the various players that it's been traded to. And if you've already used the plat? Well now you have to either negotiate a reversal (if you bought skins/decorations) or buy enough plat to balance the account Why can't DE just ban the account that did the charge back? Thing is that they already do (as do pretty much every game company if you ever do a charge back)...but the barrier to entry of getting an account to the point where you could buy the plat and spend it on trades and such is ridiculously low. And doesn't prevent things, especially since plenty of card companies offer "disposable" virtual card numbers you can generate and cancel at the press of a button. Why does DE remove the plat from the accounts that it was traded to? Because good luck proving your innocence, or that you didn't engage in RMT or similar behavior. And you're asking a company "Hey I know this is a hassle and a problem for you that costs you money....but trust me that I'm a good an innocent player!" Again, this is also costing the company money, and they want to be compensated for what you spent the money on. Finally, if DE only removed the plat from the initial account (which is likely a throw-away mule account) it doesn't solve the issue aside from banning one mule account out of however many the person doing this has. The person who generated the bad plat likely doesn't care if the account that started it was banned, it was a burner account from the start that they expected to get banned at some point. So for them to have an account lockout of "you need to pay this plat back...." means nothing and will never get paid back. Besides that, the original account would have already been banned for issuing a chargeback (and most game services, consoles, etc. will ban an account that does a chargeback), so removing the plat from an already banned account does what exactly?

If you ignore the weapon/frame limitations the points just for taking on the other effects gives you 15 points on the normal mode. This gets you 2 reward (equivalent to running 2 netracells) and some lathorns (of debatable use but still) IF you have elite unlocked the same setup means getting over 20 points which is 3 netracell rewards. So absolute worst case of "You don't have any of the gear to do the personal gear limitations" and it's a break even proposal where you don't lose anything. If you can equip at least 2 of the selections from the gear limitations you can get 3 rewards from the normal deep archimedea, meaning you benefited from running this mode over spending the searches on normal netracells, If you have elite unlocked it also adds in 20 vosfor and an additional reward for a total of 4 pulls from the rewards. Regardless you can either break even, or come out slightly ahead even without any of the gear limitations.

To be perfectly honest and fair this can be mitigated by using Vazarin. Sure it's a limited number of revives per round, but if you can't use your kid mode anyways what's there to lose from switching to vazarin and enjoying instant revives? And if you can set it up beforehand, having multiple people with vazarin just makes the instant revives stretch a little further and makes reviving people in the mode a piece of cake. And part of the idea of the mode is changing your loadout (which includes your focus schools and such) to make the mode as easy as possible.

Also a small tip that I don't think many people noticed yet: Even if your pulls are the best, there is another small trick you can have up your sleeves to have an advantage: Specters aren't restricted in the mode. Sure they are just specters with their AI quirks and issues...but if you feel like you really need some extra help in clearing the mode you can bring your specters along to smooth things out a bit. And at the very least it's an extra body to distract the enemies with.

All of the patch notes, and IIRC in game UI, mention that unlocking elite mode is permanent. So do it once and you can just start at elite mode from that point on (emphasis mine below): And from the in game tips menu: So yeah, do a maximum point run in the normal deep archimedea once and prove you can handle ultimate without ever needing to do the normal mode again. That way you only need to run the mode once per week, instead of twice. EDIT: Also there is only one real reason to max out elite archimedea research points, and you only ever need to do it once: the Archimedean Eye Sumdali. After that the 50 vosfor just isn't all that worth it.

The problem with this is that no matter what selection of options you provide, people will just choose the one option that completely and utterly ignores everything while still getting maximum points. In the case of deep archimedea they'll just always take Revenant and Torid and go nuts because why wouldn't you? Why would you choose something else when you have easy mode that will solve 100% of whatever the game can throw at you no matter the circumstances you find yourself in? There simply isn't any combination of effects that you could make that would make those a "bad" choice or make them not completely and utterly trivialize anything the game could possibly throw at you.

Hey, how about you actually take a look from the OP on reddit (OPs name is highlighted blue on reddit to make it possible to identify them): So yeah...you're presenting a "Hey look, wouldn't it be funny to get such a bad gear selection?" as a "Look people!!!! This mode sucks!!!! Look at this horrible loadout that this person got!!!!" When it's just someone poking fun at the idea. Yeah, such a great strawman you have. What now, you're going to put together and image of even lower tier gear and try to pass that off as something that actually happened? Instead of actually posting the context and truth?

That was my experience with it. Not the hardest thing to do, but not really "easy" either. The only one that got even slightly annoying was the deep archimedean vampire limnis with how they would teleport to you if you got far enough away. Rounding a corner and having one of them with their auras literally pop up under my feet and start draining my health was a bit of a surprise. Fully agree here. As I was going through the mode I learned very quickly "Just completely ignore the void rigs. Not worth it..." and just started bullet jumping away from them whenever they crowded me. Then when the disruption came I was pleasantly surprised at how quickly they went down....especially if you blow up some of the vials in the environment when they are next to them. Actually made me use the environment for once in a fight to mop it up a little bit quicker...which is honestly a massive point towards the mode personally.

Wow...hadn't checked on an invis frame and yikes...that does suck.

So basically: "Hey, lets stop warframe from being warframe and turn it into a completely different game!" Even range limited it won't matter as you can still lock down entire tiles where pretty much all enemies are within LoS...so you would still have enemies coming into the room and then being completely stopped in their tracks and unable to actually do anything. I mean it used to happen back when Rhino was first introduced to the game and could single-handily lock down entire tiles....and the game had a much lower power ceiling back then than it does now. Hek, Excalibur can still lock down entire tiles with radial blind, and he has fairly strict LoS requirements on that ability but it doesn't really stop players from locking down entire tiles with every single cast. So your much wanted AI just does nothing as they walk into the room....and are immediately stopped and turned off and unable to do anything with all the new advanced features. And again: Parkour was one of the better things added into the game. It was a slow slog before hand. And you would need to do a lot more than just remove parkour. Switch teleport would have to go away. Nova's portals would have to go away. Reave would have to go away. Charge would have to go away. Razorwing would have to go away. And so on and so forth as there are a lot of abilities in this game that allow you to just ignore everything around you and move quickly through the map without interacting with enemies or even the tile in question. Your idea basically amounts to: "Lets completely gut all movement options, then gut a ton of frame abilities and potentialy rework/remove some frames entirely. Then massively buff the enemies so that the game isn't even recognizable....and then call it a day!"

That is one of the worst takes in a long time. The game was anemic and annoying before the parkour updates...and it's not like the parkour update is what allowed for skipping entire maps and all the enemies. I mean first we had zoren coptering and all that. Improve the AI all you want, won't fix anything or actually make any difference because we cant immediately and permanently lock down all enemies within 60 meters with the push of a single button. Beyond that the AI does have tactics...when they can survive and actually do things long enough for the tactics to work. They'll group up in nullifier bubbles and frost eximus bubbles. They'll get behind shield troopers. And so on. It's just that those never have a chance to actually come into play because either we just atomized the entire room, or locked their AI down the second they spawned. And without being forced to actually fight them players will just ignore them. I mean how many players just ignore the juggernauts, or the noxes, or in the entrati labs the voidrigs, and just choose to not deal with them in any way, shape or form, because the missions allow you to do so? And even if we were somehow forced to deal with those enemies then we'll just get back to the lockdown and cheese tactics, which even exist for the snooze of a fight known as the 60 eye fragmented one.

Actually DE was clear that the Lepus headgear (which is still available) was going to be different than the new permanent one: So please tell me where you got the information that they were just going to update the Lepus headgear? Or was that an assumption you made? They never said that you could buy the new permanent bunny ears with credits either....so unless you have a source for that claim as well?

I'm so glad they kept them an auxiliary attachment instead of making the permanent ones a signa. I was honestly expecting to have to choose between a signa or the ears, glad I can use both at the same time.

Not going to happen. Having to update and manage and try to keep two entirely different graphics engines in sync is a ton of extra work...and for very little return. Any time they make new tiles and frames and effects and so on they would need to double the work, do it once in the new engine and once in the old engine. Sure some work can be ported over between the two graphics engines, but there would still need to be a ton of work done on it. Beyond that it greatly increases the possibility of various bugs and having to make fixes specifically for an older graphics engine that only a tiny fraction of the userbase is using. While it does suck that the game is getting too much for your system there really isn't much DE can do about it. You can try FSR and see if that helps any. But ultimately you'll need to upgrade your system to keep up.

What? What you said here: Which amounts to "Hey this change in the game mode is good, but they could have done it without changing the game mode!" Which makes no sense what-so-ever. A visual cue is going to change the game mode....since it is a change to the game mode. You can't go "Hey, I don't mind DE making this change, but they could have made this change without changing things." and expect people to understand what you're saying. True. I inferred that because of your comments earlier in this thread that you couldn't always pin-point the beeps or they were quiet or drowned out by other sounds. Why? Because with a decent sound setup what you're describing here doesn't happen. This leads to two possible inferences. Either your sound setup isn't that good, and you thought that was the default state of playing the game mode. OR you're making the game quieter than it should be, drowinging it out with music or videos or something else, and coming to the same conclusion. If you knew about the already, rather poor and buggy, visual indicator that was part of the game mode before this change you certainly haven't shown any indication of such. Most of your arguments can be boiled down to: - This change makes the game mode too easy because now you can properly tell the direction of the demolyst earlier. Which guess what? If you had a good sound system and sound settings you would already have the information provided by the visual indicator at about the same time as the visual indicator currently gives it to you. Please tell me, what conclusion am I supposed to draw from your complaints other than the auditory cues were lacking on your end in some regard, so much so that you see the visual indicator as some sort of massive change when it doesn't realistically affect the detection range to any noticeable degree? The two conclusions I see are: -Bad sound setup (either on purpose because of listening to videos/music/etc) -Hearing issues The game apparently defines auditory range (as in the range where you can hear the beeping) to be roughly 1-2 rooms away. Since that is when you can see the red marker appear on your minimap that shows you the location of the demolyst and was stated to show up when you could hear the beeps. Coincidently that is also roughly the range you could hear the beeping occur in the old version of the mode, unless you purposefully muted the game or something along those lines. Or what, is the game now having a visual indicator of what the range should be not good enough to actually tell you the range of the auditory beeping? Except that the beeping never really started all that low and was always good enough to tell you "Oh hey, it's slightly louder in my right speaker than my left, and because there is all of one hallway in that direction I know exactly where the demolyst is." As soon as you heard the beeping you knew where to go in the old system because of how simple the game maps are. And with the map indicator having the same range as the auditory beeping it is only a fairly minor thing that largely helps people with auditory issues without affecting the difficulty of the game mode in any realistic way. Demolisher beeps are quite a bit louder than the rest of the game, unless you specifically set most of the game effects to be rather low and turn up voices and music. Which at that point that is a bad sound setup on the users end. And hey, now the game mode won't let you ruin your own experience....how terrible I guess? Except that isn't true...unless you have a mono sound setup. Otherwise you would be able to tell "Hey the beeps are slightly louder on my left speaker than my right speaker..." (and I don't have a surround sound setup, just two speakers) and know what direction it is coming from. And with how limited map generation is that gives you all of one, maybe two, doors to check. It's not like the game was making the beeping occur on the right speaker when the demolyst was actually to your left (unless you messed up the basic stereo sound setup and got the speakers reversed). So yes, you can ascertain which direction the beeping is coming from due to which speaker is making the beeping the loudest! And you don't need some expensive sound setup to do this, only a basic stereo sound system with two separate speakers placed slightly apart on your desk! And no, it didn't only work at perfect 90 degree angles. There was plenty of sound blending to tell "Well, its largely coming from my right speaker, but I do hear it in my left speaker, this means its to my right and slightly ahead or behind...." And because most tiles don't have a dozen doors placed everywhere from that you can determine pretty much exactly where the demolyst was coming from...and pretty immediately at that.

So this all boils down to the OP: A) Not having the best sound system (or purposefully making the game quieter and thinking that is how it was supposed to be played) B) Not knowing the actual mechanics and bugs of the mode And then from both of those combined coming to the conclusion that it was supposed to work a specific way without directional stereo audio cues or anything else that made finding the demolyst trivially easy (which were already in the game), and then complaining that DE "killed" the game mode by putting everyone on equal standing with each other and making the mode work consistently like it was intended to work. And at the same time saying "DE could have fixed it all and changed some things such as the visual indicator while at the same time not changing the mode!" (which makes no sense, saying that DE should make a change that doesn't change anything?) Did I miss anything of substance there? Confirms my finding in a ton of the maps. If the demolyst spawns more than 1 or 2 rooms away from the conduit (which is the vast majority of the time) you actually have to move in the right direction in order to get a fix on the minimap. Which is what you had to do when you were relying on sound cues in the old system. The only time it's noticeable with the changes are when the demolyst happens to spawn literally next door to the conduit, which doesn't really happen all that often. It also had a minor effect on the kuva fortress tileset in some of the multi-floored rooms to make it easier to pin-point the demolyst...but usually when that matters you'll see the red pulses through the walls or floor and know where it is anyways so it's not like it gives away the game there either.

I mean how else are you supposed to take the bits about how the beeping was obscured by other sounds (it's quite loud unless you lower game sound effects to listen to the games music or other music in general), and how they couldn't tell what direction the sound was coming from (which means either a mono sound setup, or just a very bad stereo sound setup)? It's either that or the OP doesn't have the greatest hearing. In either case they could have achieved what the visual marker does by adjusting their sound levels to prioritizing the beeps over other things, and at about the same range and efficacy as well. It's just that the visual marker makes it so that you don't have to do that (if you even can depending on your setup and/or hearing issues) and puts you on level standing with the people with a good sound setup and/or no hearing impairments at all. Sure, this change makes it easier if you muted the in game sounds to listen to out of game music/video/whatever....but at that point it's just undoing you purposefully making your experience worse. If you didn't do that though? It doesn't really change anything in any noticeable way as you play the same way you always did: Run around till you can hear the beeps and then you know exactly where to go. Which is the exact same experience that players had in the past. Once the very first beeps sounded all of the "tension, suspense, exploration - even a little danger" that the OP stated was so great about the game mode, instantly vanished...and the visual marker doesn't really change that fact in any noticeable way since it has the same range and requirements of actually hearing the in game beeping.

Yeah, saw that and had to roll my eyes. Sure it's not "true" directionality without a surround sound system, but it's still pretty close. It's not hard to tell "Sound is louder on the right side, so I need to head in that direction and because there is all of 1 hallway in that direction I know exactly where the demolyst is coming from...." The only map that could sometimes get a tad bit confusing on was in the kuva fortress, and even then it wasn't a huge problem as you could see the red pulses through the walls/floors there if you were close enough to hear the beeps. And even then the OP is trying so hard to go "But my sound setup was purposefully bad, and now I can see the marker clearly! That ruins the game mode!!!" I mean they are seriously complaining that their low game volume and bad speaker setup now no longer hampers the gameplay of the mode and acting like the solution is somehow a negative because they can no longer make it problematic for themselves....

To answer your questions: As I mentioned in the post: 1 to 2 rooms roughly. That's it. Further it's funny how you complain that you can't hear it as well as other people...and then go on to defend that like that's a good thing? Honestly with the marker you're getting the experience of someone with a good sound setup and the other sounds set to low/muted (not how I play personally but there are people who do that for various reasons) Here's the thing: in 90-95% of cases, if you could hear the sound at all you knew exactly where it was coming from! So how is the visual marker at that point any different? Especially since the marker fades in and out with the audio cue, meaning that between the series of beeps you have no clue where the demo is? So basically you're saying "Hey, if I gimp myself by muting the in game audio the visual cue completely undoes that!!!!!" And at that point I have to ask if you're actually being completely serious here. You're complaining that the visual cue puts you on level ground with the players who don't intentionally gimp their experience in the game mode. And acting like that is a bad thing for some reason? The audio has always been directional in a good stereo setup. You could quite easily tell "Oh the demo is coming down on the right hand hallway, so head there and find it...." And again, if you were within the range to actually hear the cue you could already tell what direction the demo was in 90-95% of the time anyways due to how simple and straightforward the maps are in this game. There wasn't any great amount of guess-work with the sound cues before, this just levels the playing fields between the people who had no problems with the sound cue system and the people that did. And it works roughly the same here! If the beeping would be blocked in game so it wouldn't play on your end it won't create an icon on the map to follow in game! Further if the sound fades away or is cut off and you haven't gotten within sight of the demolyst the icon disappears as well, leaving you in the dark until the beeping starts again! Which is essentially how it worked before, just again with a leveled playing experience that doesn't screw over people who can't hear the beeps for one reason or another! I mean seriously, you're complaining that a feature that levels the playing field is ruining the game mode and then utterly refusing to actually approach the conversation like a rational person when presented with evidence to the contrary. The game mode hasn't been ruined. Hek it hasn't even been noticeably changed with the addition. You still need to head in the right direction of the demolyst to hear the beeps and see the icon on your minimap. It still has a range limitation that is the same as the auditory cue that would tell you where the demolyst was before. The only thing it does is actually level the playing field between the people who can hear the beeps and knew instantly where the demolyst was coming from and the people who couldn't. And due to it not being 100% in sync the auditory cue pretty much always plays just slightly before the visual cue. And to see you try to argue "But if your sound setup was terrible or you couldn't hear the sounds you don't deserve to know where the demolyst is coming from!!!' is kinda sad honestly. Here's a neat thing: It already does! Sure it's not a 100% perfect sync, especially if you aren't the host, but it does actually disappear and reappear with the beeps, so when the demolyst is quiet and you haven't spotted it then it doesn't appear on your minimap.

I've tested this change in a wide variety of maps and it really hasn't changed anything for the negative. The red marker only appears if you're within auditory range of the pings. If you're too far away and wouldn't hear the pings? No marker. So it's only useful if you're within 1-2 rooms of the demolyst. It just makes finding it a tiny bit more reliable and better for people that have a harder time hearing the pings. You still have to choose the right path to go down to see the marker. If you go the wrong direction guess what happens: You don't know where the demolyst is coming from until too late! Just like how it was in the old system! So you still have to guess the right direction to know where the demolyst spawns from so you can find it quicker. It's just more reliable. Part of the issue is that the new map on Deimos has the demolyst spawn so close that it's instantly marked. Which is more an issue of that map than of the change itself. Except that is not the case! You still need to be in auditory range to see the marker appear. If the demolyst is too far away you won't get a marker at all. So guess what happens if you test the wrong path? You don't get a marker until the demolyst is practically inside the tile housing the conduit.

No it would not. We don't need players feeling like they are lacking massive amounts of power and different skills that "make a frame good" because a frame is vaulted at the time and the only two options are: A) Wait a very long time for the prime to come back into resurgence and hope that they can farm it out when it's available B) Pay a lot of plat to traders to get the benefits The stats are more than enough of a reason to get a prime. Heard that one plenty before, and still have to very firmly disagree with it. It just adds nothing but pure tedium to crafting primes, and for what reason? Who does it benefit? What does it make better? All it does is make things take longer.......which is better because reasons? Further it doesn't make sense from a lore standpoint either. Sure would make the game better having to grind out dozens of simaris dailies just to build a single prime frame, right? That is surely what the game is missing??? I mean if they do that then things get magically better! For some reason apparently!

This is 100% intended and working as designed. Just like with Excalibur and the energy beams he shoots when he swings his exalted blade. The melee combo counter only goes up if you actually hit an enemy in melee.

Let me ask you something that is 100% serious and honest question: Do you even actually pay attention to your squad mates fashion choices in any way as they are currently? Do you spend time trying to get them to sit still so that you can look them over and try to see what they are using under all the particle effects and everything else? Or do you just see that another frame has joined the squad without paying much attention to it outside of what the frame is (if you even care what they are playing)? Especially since most players hop around like cracked up rabbits as it is already, which gives you even less of a chance to see what cosmetics they have chosen. So with you answering that question honestly, please answer the next one honestly as well: Would you even know if a team mate had the bunny ears equipped at all? I'm going to hazard a guess that, no, you wouldn't notice if a team mate had the ears equipped or not and likely can't remember the color choices or syandana of a single member in the last squad you played with. Hek, I'm willing to bet that most players probably can't even tell you what frames and weapons the last squad they were part of were using..... In which case: What does it matter? It's not like it is going to be something shoved into your face all the time since you won't even notice it at all when people have it equipped or not. How are you even going to notice that someone has it? Especially when they are bullet jumping away at maximum speed?