TheTundraTerror

DE, LoS is never going to be predictable and we are never going to be "satisfied" with LoS being used as a "balancing" mechanic when the game has incredibly diverse terrain.

What still grinds my gears is how quick DE were to nerf Dante while Qorvex was abandoned 15 femtosecond after released with the very, very, very odd bug fix being released here and there. Seriously, why aren't you as quick to react when a Warframe is released, at best, in a middling state?

I decided to run some tests in each of the Simulacrum: find a reasonable spot where neither I nor Dante can see enemies while being able to hit them with Dark Verse. It happens in all three of them. It happens in the Citadel Simulacrum: It happens in the Ballroom Simulacrum: It happens in the Sanctum Simulacrum: Mind you, none of these spots are unreasonable to position myself, especially standing on an elevated floor. Also, bonus question: why does LoS not apply to objects?

I know this seems very janky, but you can always try the Captura scenes. There is no "adjusting your build" for an inherently broken mechanic like LoS. I have personally show examples of mobs that are neither in view of Dante nor my camera getting hit with Dark Verse. That said, this makes it so that anyone playing on a lower end system is at an inherent disadvantage.

They didn't even fix it since I can still hit things without being able to see them.

The fact that more people are calling for a range nerf instead of just removing the damage tells you everything you need to know about the conversation.

This was the first thing I tested to see if Dark Verse's LoS was "working". Literally the most basic test; totally reasonable to be at the bottom of some stairs and this game is full of them. I shouldn't be able to hit a single mob; none of them are visible on my screen and none of them should be visable to Dante. I hit 3. Despite having a full Orokin Battlegroup spawned, somehow I manage to hit these three specific enemies which are: the one furthest to the front and right, the one left of him, and the one behind the first. This is why I have such a burr with LoS; no matter how many times DE fixes it, it will always be inconsistent. If anyone thinks I'm lying, try it yourself. Spawn the same pack, stand around the same spot, have enough range, and hit 3.

I wish DE would just realize that LoS doesn't work as a "balancing" measure when levels aren't actively designed with it in mind. You can't honestly expect me to believe this when you have both tiny, open maps like those in the Circuit and cramped, cluttered maps like those in with the Infested. The reason games can get away with LoS on abilities is, well, they're often PvP-focused. But ignoring that, the reason they have LoS is because they actively design their maps with such a mechanic in mind.

Brilliant. This is literally the first thing I tested. Stand at the bottom of the steps and cast Dark Verse/Tragedy to test LoS. Somehow able to hit three mobs despite not being able to see them in any way. 🫠 Full Orokin Battlegroup, by the way.

Meanwhile, Food Stamp Xoris with the Melee Influence letting me nuke my way through Steel Path missions like the mobs barely exist.

Hundreds of people asking to revert the LoS checks and DE just ignores all of them. If the issue was Tragedy being able to kill level 20 fodder units on Star Chart with three casts, well... than just remove the damage it does itself and remove LoS. I don't know why people are asking for a range nerf or why DE is claiming the range is an issue. Honestly, the fact that so many people don't realize Tragedy did any amounts of damage itself is kind of telling how little would change from removing that minor amount of damage.

Regular reminder that DE is the same developer that released Melee Influence, an Arcane that costs basically nothing to max out and lets you melt entire Steel Path missions with the Xoris, itself a food stamp weapon.

I wish more people brought up how Khora's 1 is ever since DE added LoS. They added a "minimal" LoS check on Update 29.5 and it wasn't until half a year later with Update 30 that they admitted "yeah, LoS doesn't work, so we're going to ease things back". But even with "pulling things back", her Thunderdome Strangledome+Whipclaw interaction feels like a coin flip if it wants to work. Also, if DE should add LoS to anything, it should be to Vauban's Vortex so that I don't have to deal with half the spawn waves glued to the wall and out of the reach of Flechette Orb.

I would be much happier if they reduced the shared damage by a nice, simple (not firm) 50% that can't be modded. Or, at the very least, not reduce the base range. That said, the fact that it requires you to use one of your 8 mod slots, doesn't help against anything with Overguard nor Acolytes, and the ability can't be recasted to catch new mobs like Rhino's Stomp, the nerf should just be reverted.

Tragedy never needed a nerf as, on release, it provided Dante with a solid gameplay loop of tagging mobs and cashing them in. All adding LoS does, at best, is turn him into a "Macro Bot" of spamming 3>3>4 on every group of targets. In fact, it also makes him less useful in teams since your allies were able to contribute to DoTs. Oh, your team mates running off and killing mobs? Yeah, you can't do anything to help. I should also mention that, at this point, it's not even about the nerfs themselves. It's far more than that. It's about Rebecca saying that Dante's damage wouldn't be touched before rolling out damage nerfs. Remember: Rebecca is the director now. Either she didn't know that these were in the works which implies that the team is keeping things from her or she did know these damage changes were in the works and chose to lie to the playbase. Which is it? It's requiring multiple posts to do what should have been done in the first place instead of taking bats to kneecaps. You didn't have to nerf Overguard, something that doesn't get any form of DR and therefor becomes a much weaker shieldgate. If anything, Dante should have been an incentive to take a look at Overguard itself and fix that. It's looking at hundreds of posts over dozens of pages over multiple threads and ignoring all the feedback. Making changes that not only do nothing to solve the issue but make it worse. Lowering the OG given but increasing the regen to the dismay of all 4 Chroma mains. Adding LoS that seems to be tied to your camera instead of your Warframe which can now block LoS. Even if LoS did work fine, though, it would just make Dante less engaging and lead him into the realm of "Frames that need multiple casts to do something most Frames can do with a single cast" which is currently lead by Oberon. DE. At this point, you've lost a lot of trust with the playerbase. In a live service game, you are reliant on the players trusting you; literally the entire reason you're about to make this kind of nerf is because players trusted you enough to spend upwards of $250 some 11-12 years ago. Breaking trust, especially when money changes hands, it not a magic trick that you can do more than once. I will be taking a screencap of this post and noting any possible alterations.

DE. If the number of people posting on the forums for the first time to tell you they want the nerfs reverted isn't a sign, I don't know what is.

You guys have been around for 30 years but you can't figure out how to make LoS checks function?

Regular reminder that Rebecca said that, by their three pillars, they weren't touching his damage. No, the fact that a new Frame is popular within a week doesn't make them dominant.

People told you by the thousands to revert the nerfs and yet you're going to start firm of this, huh? This is the hill you're gonna die on? Wow... and you didn't even fix the issues people had while also making them worse. Outstanding.

I honestly can't believe people are calling for Ally Overguard amounts to be nerfed because ONE frame and TWO mods are negatively impacted. How about instead of making the ability worse or needing more bandaids than a paper mill, we update Chroma to the current decade and let Rage/HA work off Overguard because (as is) Overguard has nothing going for it beyond it's super short gating. It doesn't get DR which means it gets shredded like harder than Rich Piana beyond double digit enemy levels.

DE: "We don't like people testing everything in the Simulacrum. It's not reflective of real gameplay where 20 Heavy Gunners stand in place." Also DE:

All this talk about "we hear you" and "listening to feedback" flies in the fact that you've blatantly ignored that people have been repeating a Gregorian chant of "Overguard interferes with mods and abilities". Instead of fixing Overguard preventing Retribution splash from proccing, Rage/Adrenaline from giving energy, and making Chroma about as useful in a mission as... well, Choma, you decide to just nerf the new hotness and claim "feedback" because 5 people complained. This is not-so universal medallion all over again. It's telling when the only thing made "more consistent" within the past 5 years has been nerfing CC.

Abilities not affeecting mobs has been an issues for years. Vauban can't armor strip mobs with his Bastille if mobs are ragdolled which makes it a massive pain in the Limbo since his 4 with eventually cause mobs to ragdoll.

Just got done Deep Dive (I'm calling them that because it's easier) and just spent 15 minutes in Stage 2 because one person decided to run off and start Voca hunting which spread out the spawns and massively slowed down the Ampule drops. Again, because one person decided to put himself over the group, the three people that actually focused on the mission were punished. Please, just disable Voca spawns from Netracells and Deep Dive.

Current Deep Dive having modifiers that give you 5m of wiggle room to not lose all your energy is astounding and really sets the tone going forward.