Ruison
-
Posts
62 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by Ruison
-
-
52 minutes ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:
Show that?
Literally proves you wrong, tempest barrage doesn't send enemies flying and tentacle swarm doesn't hit enemies, I know this used to be before its rework but it's not like that anymore so it further proves my point, so all the more reason they should allow Allied fire to cross the globe from any direction, something that wouldn't even negatively affect Frost.
It's not the flavor of the month, these posts about Frost come out from time to time, like the Limbo ones and the Volt Speed ones.
By the way, 2 of those links are the same, you haven't searched much either.I'm not looking to vilify Frost, I know how annoying Snowball can be, just as I also know how annoying Volt Speed can be even though it's my favorite warframe, the point is that you don't have to defend something with nails and teeth using the slightest excuse just because it's your favorite.
Brief touch on Hydroid
They took a Control frame and GUTTED ALL THE ENMEY CONTROL. What made Hydroid fun to play is now GONE along with his Identity. Because of posts like this.
All it takes is one Radiation proc and you shooting at or near an objective you want to defend to kill it. Frost Globe prevents this in sorties.
Volt is your favorite? Some one makes a post about the speed buff being annoying or a meme. DE removes the ability. How do you feel? You cannot say it will never happen because they literally just did that to Hydroid.
It would be nice if they reach out to people that currently Play the frames before they listen to an echo chamber of people saying remove this, allow that.
-
1
-
-
2 hours ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:
what it is to speak without knowing:
Made me chuckle. I've been around for a long time. Everything that I said was at one point true and from actual interactions in-game.
Frost just happens to be the flavor of the month. There are literally post on this forum asking to remove Ragdoll from Hydroids Tempest Barrage because it's "Annoying".
I'm not gonna go drag up every post from the Archives to prove a my point, these should suffice.
You should not vilify any frame from one negative experience. There are Frost (really any frame) mains that will carry you kicking and screaming through some of the hardest content this game has to offer. New people don't know how to play them and Warframe is in it's largest period of growth. That Frost may have been a returning player from when frost only had one Globe. The old strategy to stay alive with him was spamming his unbreakable globe. When they gave the globe hp they stripped all his survivability because the globe would be instantly broken.
Frost has had a rocky history. CBT he was regarded as the Strongest Warftame and EVERYONE had him on stand by for endurance runs with Loki, Trinity and Necros. Few updates later he became the weakest. Limbo comes out with a Energy Regen Bubble people stopped playing Frost. Then DE broke him completely by adding Hp to globe. Around this time it Frost became the least played frame in the game they hit him with a nerf bat so damn hard they essentially removed him from the game. Right now he is in a good Balanced place he's not stupidly op or completely useless.
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:
That doesn't make sense, those warframes are completely different from each other.
What? All of those frames have abilities that block ally projectiles.
Volt - Electric Shield
Limbo - Banish and Cataclysm
Atlas - Tectonics
Garra - Spectrorage
I was not aware that Frost was the only one people have an issue with. The specific thing The OP was talking about? The blocking of his projectiles? Heck we can throw the other bullet manipulators in the as well or frames that inadvertently prevent damage.
Oh no Mag use polarize and now all my bullets are hitting an enemy I did want them to hit.
That Stupid Nyx is using absorb and I cant shoot past it.
Garuda used Blood Altar now I can't kill THAT enemy.
Aw shucks Grendel ate that guy with Consume and now I can't kill them.
REEEEEE Loki used switch Teleport on an enemy I wanted to kill.
Hydroid stop using tentacle Swarm I can't hit the enemies flailing around.
Dammit Oberon your Reckoning made me miss my attack.
Titania Stop making the enemies float around.
The point I'm trying to make is that there are more frames that have this "Problem". Learn to play around them? Get inside the Snow Globe, it doesn't stop you from shooting out.
If it really bothers you. There's a nice nifty game option that lets you play alone or make your game invite only.
-
Don't touch Frost's Globe again. Everytime DE touches it they make it useless for for a year. Then return it right back where it was.
Maybe Stand inside the globe and shoot out?
Any change to frost and DE will need to commit the same Changes to Volt, Limbo, Atlas and Garra.
Frost is currently in a good place right now Balance wise. If it ain't broke don't fix.
-
1
-
-
14 hours ago, MarakViri said:14 hours ago, MarakViri said:
I mean ... yeah. It's a really good ability. I still say that incorporating <Undertow> into this to make it a Tap-Hold ability is best, because his new <Plunder> is actually an incredible ability that catapults Hydroid into the upper tiers in the way the rest of his kit, including <Undertow>, just don't.
The issue is that Plunder is the Lazy way to fix what Hydroid could already do. The only thing Plunder added to his kit was reliability and ease of use and a power crepted Armor/Damage boost. Player will ALWAYS gravitate to what ever frame does the most damage. We've gone through that cycle so many times. In the next few patch they'll nerf Plunder and people will stop playing him again. History will Repeats it's self like Ash, Excalibur, Mesa, Mirage, Chroma, Harrow and many other frames suffered this fate they are still played though.
Maybe the reason of why for the 3% is because since Hydroids Release all he has ever received was nerf?( Until last update). Undertow used to be a 40m ability, Pilfering Swarm used to scale off power strength. They never fixed his bugs. I see clearly why people avoided him.
Surge>Undertow>Barrage combo with Corrosive Barrage would full strip and kill enemies very quickly. The only issue was the unreliability of Tempest Barrage. Tempest Barrage problem of trying to make a 10m ability hit a 5m ability. Only 50% of the Salvos are going to even hit, even less because of Salvos hitting terrain. Your looking at a 1/16 salvo's hitting Undertow and Applying a Corrosive Proc. The only place you could reliably do this we're open World Maps.
Why I proposed the Polluted Waters Augment to address this. Making the Armor strip more reliable while also encouraging the chaining his abilities together.
14 hours ago, MarakViri said:We do all agree that his old passive was awful. I feel that your suggestion isn't much better. Granted, it's engaging, I'll give you that. But, both <Tidal Surge> and <Undertow> prevent Ground Finishers altogether.
Funny thing is that they used too allow Ground finisher. With Undertow you used to be able to double tap the ability to knock down enemies in a close proximity.
Tidal surge... If they didn't get flung through or bounce off walls a match 10. They were open to Ground finishers.
I used Prisma Obex with it's sequence mod to take advantage of knocking down enemies. That massing Explosion of Damage was so damn satisfying... Then Sqeunce got nerfed. At one point (Probably a bug) you could use covert lethality as well.
Why I ALWAYS wanted his Passiive to trigger off of ground finishers instead of slams. That's the reason for the suggestion. I feel like that is where Plunder belongs.
14 hours ago, MarakViri said:Okay, this is interesting. It does prevent you from having conplete loadout freedom, partially, due to the inclusion of additional effects based on your Secondary though. You would be better off making this an exalted weapon with alternate firing modes.
That would remove the secondary weapon synergies, admittedly. But being able to switch from your equipped Hystrix to a portable Zarr / Knell would be more functional, I feel. Though, that's up to personal preference.
The only Critera I even care about is it being a targeted attack. It could be a Tentacle Lash or a Water bolt as well so, we can point it at Tentacle swarm and end it early. Doesn't need damage or some effect.
The Hand Cannon thing to me is just the most Thematic what to do it. Hell we can give it the mine layer treatment instead of it being influenced by secondaries. Even the alternate fire modes you suggested. Explosive shot, Grpae Shot, Chain Shot.... Those sound nice but it's a fever dream to think we're going to get anything like that.
14 hours ago, MarakViri said:Okay, so a percentage based drain is very steep, especially when paired with exponential drain. Having the drain increase based on captured enemies though makes a lot of sense.
Now, my initial idea for Undertow being added as a feature of <Tidal Surge> involved <Tempest Barrage>, so I'll state that and then try to figure it out with <Hand Cannon>.
So, Undertow drains 25 energy per second (dropping to 10/s with Efficiency and Duration) at base, with an additional 5 energy (unaffected by mods) for each enemy captured, which can be achieved by "attacking" the same way it was before the ability was removed, or impacting them with <Tidal Surge>. Captured enemies lose 1% of their maximum HP every second, increasing by 50% with each energy increase, resetting with <Tidal Surge>. Attacking with the Tentacle deals Corrosive damage with a 200% status chance.
The energy drain increases by 100% every 5 seconds (going to 50/s, then 100/s, with enemy drain going from 5 to 10, then 20, etc), with the accumulated drain being reset upon using <Tidal Surge>, which costs 50% less while Undertow is active.
While Undertow is active, Hydroid cannot pick up items or receive energy from any source.
Activating <Tempest Barrage> while in Undertow will launch all accumulated enemies with the barrage, dealing additional damage based on the CurrentHP of the captured enemies, and dealing 10% of the launched targets MaxHP as damage to that target. If a launched target is killed, a portion of their MaxHP is added to the remainder of the Barrage.
Activating <Tentacle Swarm> while in Undertow will localised the Swarm to the puddle, and it will move with you. Attacking a captured enemy will deal damage to all enemies captured by the Tentacle Swarm, and will apply the 200% status chance of Corrosive to all enemies, and will gain 100% damage for every enemy stored within Undertow. Using <Tidal Surge> while this is active will cause the Kraken to throw all of the captured enemies into Undertow.
<Plunder> cannot be activated while Undertow is active (assuming Undertow gets tied into Tidal Surge, which I feel is the better solution).
Now, as for integrating it into <Hand Cannon>, maybe having the damage increase for every captured enemy or something?
Undertow getting tide into Tidal Surge is probably the only way we will get undertow back.
All DE had to do was fix the bugs and add a penalty for Afking in it. You already couldn't pick up or regen Energy in it.
Hard part about Shooting enemies out of Undertow is the camera. It's too low to allow you to shoot enemies out.
DE it already has the tech to fix enemies staying in undertow bug. It functions the same as Grendels Consume. Why didn't they Adapt Undertow?
Undertow itself was already one of the strongest abilities in the game. That's why it got nerfed so hard. Adding anything to it, even my Radial pull, is asking to much.
I only wanted Tidal Surge and Undertow to do what it said on the tool tip.
"Tidal Surge Deposites enemies in Undertow"
IT NEVER DID THIS.
"Enemies travel with Undertow"
IT NEVER DID THIS
(It kinda did but enemies stayed a the edge of the ability 40m if you lost LOS they fell out.)
These are the two bugs that never got fixed. Enemies in Undertow never traveled with it. They got drug under the map and stayed there if Hydroid moved more than 40m or Ran into a wall enemies were spat back out. Why? When DE nerf the Range of Undertow they made a booboo in the code. The Radius of undertow for captured enemies remained at 40m the OLD radius of the ability. Yes, Undertow had conflicting Radius. I got 9+ years of Hydroid to back up this claim I know all of his bugs and could probably recreate him in Unreal from scratch.Tidal Surge suffered for the same issue as Tempest Barrage. A 10m ability trying to hit a 5m ability. Unless you hit enemies with the center of Tidal surge they would ALWAYS be flung instead of being deposited into Undertow. Tidal surges hit box needed to be cone shaped an not a flat plane.
Apologise but I get a bit heated talking about the bugs.
As for the Augments... It's just something different.
-
You can check my Profile. Over 50% of my game time is on Hydroid.
Yes, I am upset and Angry that they removed the ability. Hydroid deserved WAY more than what he got he is 10 friggin year's old this year. They could have done something cool and unique but no. They turned him into another generic passive weapon platform like 14 other war frames (Dont know exact number) because people complained that he did no damage.
So instead of leaning more into his theme they went against it. Could have had Phase Change Mechanic tired to Undertow, Exalted Hand Cannon (Replaced Barrage), added stealth to the kit, made Moving in Underow faster or SOMETHING that made him more unique. Oh yay another activate passive win game frame like: Garra, Mesa, Mirage, Trinity, Rhino, Limbo, Baruk, Oberon, Revenant, Wukong, Chroma (Excluding Stealth Frames).
They should have fixed his stupid bugs that they have neglected for 8 years instead of removing the ability. Enemies we're suppose to travel with you while in Undertow and Stay in Undertow. Funny thing enemies could LITTERALLY walk out of it.
##IMO:
With all my experience of Playing Hydroid the Ideal rework would have been:
#Passive:
Plunder - Reduced affect of the current ability that Activates on a ground finisher. We all agree the old passive was awful.
##First Ability:
"Useless and Unreliable"
"Ragdoll's Enemies"
Hand Cannon - Conjours a Pistol made of water that fires a single Salvo of cannon barrage that deals damage based on the Secondary Weapon equiped.
Explosive weapons like Angstrum cause the Salvo to Explode (Blast Proc) and ragdoll.
Bolt weapons like his Signature weapon Balistica cause the Salvo to Pierce (Punture Proc).
Beam weapons like Gammacor cause the Ability to continuously fire (Barrage) until you run out of energy.
Regular guns just apply the damage.
If there is an ability to Replace it is Corrosive barrage, but we don't have to replace it just change it's function and how it's implemented. We don't have to have the ability be influenced by mods but if it's affects are altered based on equiped weapons instead. Hydroid was consider originally scoped to be a Pirate Corsair or Pistol and Sword frame. We have NO Warframes (Except Mesa) that have effects or are affected by Secondary weapons. This now gives you the choice of Ragdoll or not to ragdoll and now more reliable because the ability is reliant on player aim.##Second ability:
Tidal Surge - The only thing that ever needed to be done was Fix the hit box everything else can stay the same as before. This has always been his best ability.
##Third Ability:
#Undertow - The Subject of debate...
"AFK Players"
"Meme Ability"
Radial pull if you press your first ability tentacles reach out and pull enemies into Undertow. Cost Energy Percentage (5%) based on number of enemies pulled Capping at 10 (50%). Numbers can change but cost needs to be high.
Ramping energy Drain to fix the AFK players. Virtually free when used briefly but costly at length allowing for a maximum of 60 seconds in Undertow. Energy Drain is reset when Tidal Surge is used.
This ability has always needed pull. Energy drain fixes the afk player issue and prevents trolling from trapping enemies in undertow. Yes we have weapon mods and Operator mods that pull enemies but both will pull enemies OUT of undertow.
##Forth ability
#Tentacle Swarm -
"It does no damage"
"It's hard too shoot Ragdolling enemies"
The best thing for Tenetacle swarm is to give it the same damage as Undertow. Time to kill on an impaled enemy should never be greater than 10 seconds if they are not killed they get dropped. With this change no more enemies getting flung around and no more trolling with Swarm.
##Augments
Tradition Warframes have had an Augment for each ability I don't think Hydroid should. I'd rather see Hydroid get Audments that influences his whole kit.
That being said I'd remove all of his augments from the game and introduce 4 new ones.
#Poluted Waters -
All of Hydroids abilities (Including Passive finisher) apply a corrosive proc. Each ability can only apply one proc. So you can't Tidal surge something 2 times for 2 procs.
The Meta full armor strip the dominates the endgame today. "If a Warframe does not have a Full strip they are not Viabe anymore." Rewards ability chaining playstyle with combos.
#Healing Waters-
All of Hydroids abilities provide a healing affect to Hydroid and Allies.
Be nice to have a support setup for Hydroid that's not relocated to a 10 meter puddle. Surge > Ground Finisher > Undertow > Swarm. With this combo the enemy would be fully Stripped of Armor and taking hp% damage.
#Cleansing Waters-
All of Hydroids abilities apply a debuff removing Affect to Hydroid and Allies.
Same as Previous Augment.
#Pilfiring Waters-
All Hydroids abilities apply a Debuff to enemies that when killed drop Additional loot.
"He has to kill to get the Loot"
"Make it Apply on Touch"
The Community has complained ad requested this since the addition of Pilfiring swarm. DE removed the lot scaling with power strength a long time ago. So, rather than Hydroid and Korah fight against each other give them some way to co exist. Hydroid could Barrage and Surge enemies into strangle Dome where they are killed.
Post's my opinion I have ZERO hope that these changes will becmade
-
I'm not Happy about him loosing puddle. Puddle was able to kill anything in the game (Excet bosses) in less than 10 Seconds.
Puddle could also spot heal and make Defense targets impossible for enemies to kill.
He used to be a semi immortal frame right that could be achieved with 3 mods. Pubble, Surge, and Swarm then repeat.
I still firmly believe that they should have fixed his 9+ year bugs before they reworked him but I guess it's too late now. Referring to enemies not saying/traveling with puddle and Surge not placing enemies in puddle, instead flinging enemies through walls(Fun but still a bug).
Problem lied with the communities interpretation of how to use puddle. "Puddle and afk" being the phrase slung around. Instead of using the ability for it utility it became a one sided meme.
Now he's just another generic meta passive weapon platform like: Chroma, Mesa, Trinity, Garra, Rhino, Frost, Nidus, Revenant, and others on the roster. Do something else DE!
When he used to be a Mobile Crontrol Frame that benefited from chaining his abilities together. He was truly unique in the way he played which is why I gravitated to him.
They should have gave players an insentive for putting enemies in and out of undertow. A means of rewarding the chaining play style. Like striping 50% of enemy armor. Corrosive proc in and out of undertow or give him an Augment that gave all of his abilities a corrosive proc. Then made his passive activate on ground finishers instead of slams. Heck would have been cool if he stole a portion of Ammo/Armor/health/Sheilds/Energy from enemies he got Ground finishers on and called that plunder instead. In my mind the passive should have been the only thing changed / removed.
PS.
Why doesnt he have a passive with his signature weapons. Attica and Balistica?
Edit:
DE you cannot say he drowns enemies anymore you removed the drowning portion of his kit. The rework release announcement just made me angry.
-
1
-
-
10 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:
I'm not being hateful at all. Just saying your Hydroid fixes don't actually deal with the things that make him the worst frame and thus he still remains at the bottom of the Bog of Uselessness.
Nothing is useless regardless of opinion when it comes to Warframes. Are there frames that do thing more effeciently? Yes, but you have the option of choice.
Tentacle Swarm:
In high level game play Khorah is undoubtedly the best loot frame, but Hydroid is better in lower level game play where his Tentacles actually have an opportunity to kill. Yes, Tentacle Swarm is useless in high level play for looting. Low level looting is useful!
At level cap, I'm sure anyone would appreciate 20 less things shooting at them. You know the crowd control aspect of Tentalce swarm. CCing 20 enemies is useful!
Tempest Barrage:
At high ranges Naturally pushes enemies out of interception Circles making it so only Eximus can cap and can be done from 100m away. This is Useful!
With corrive projection and Corrosive Barrage and at 190% range. It completely strips enemies of Armor when Combined with any grouping ability and it's guaranteed. This is Usefull! Any argument about another frame doing it better or more effeciently is invalid. Why? Unairu perma full strip exist.
Tidal Surge
One of the fastest and Cheapest movement abilities in the game. The argument of Tidal surge getting hung on things is invalid because all dashes get hung on terrain. Yes, it's hard to control but the ease of use is dependent on player skill. This is useful in any open train map and during Exploiter Orb boss fight.
Invulnerable while dashing is Useful and so is the status immunity from the Augment. Sadly it is bugged and doesn't do the thing it's supposed to do.
Undertow
Invulnerability is useful and so is Scaling Hp Damage. The only comparison is against Wukongs ability.
Wukong heals and Moves quickly
Hydroid does damage.
The argument is that it's damage slow. If you could reliably use Corrosive barrage with it, undertow kills quickly. The problem is they don't work together all because of the difference in their radius. Forcing you to have a 190% range just to have them interact properly. Costing you power strength or three mod slots just to force the interaction to work.
On 2023-06-20 at 5:42 AM, TheGodofWiFi said:The words "Hydroid" and "simple fix" don't belong in the same continent.
Simple fix! Give the same stupid radius so I don't have to sacrifice Damage or three mod slot to make them interact properly!
If you could provide useful, actionable and constructive feedback we might be able to have an actual conversation instead just calling everything Pitful, Useless, inefficient, uneffective, or saying another warframe is better.
That is what the feedback thread is for. Please read the following post.
-
Hydroids needs to be added to the list.
50% Chance to summon a Tentalce on a slam attack.
Jugulus modest is 100% chance...
-
3
-
-
On 2023-06-18 at 1:19 AM, AntifreezeUnder0 said:
What he needs is guaranteed status effects , but not magnetic, sadly its same usual guarantee slash procs which would be useful.
He is supposed to have Slash on Tidal Surge but I've never seen it and I've got 300ish hours on him.
One of Three eternal bugs Hydroid has.
-
14 hours ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:
He is bad by default. Seriously, please set out a rework forum because clearly you have more knowledge on how to fix the frame (no disrespect to op, I was willing to actually listen).
I'll admit that I am hesitant to see my Favorite frame fully reworked and removing things that I enjoy. If I was able to rework him without holding back I'd do the following. I'll admit that not all this isnot wholly my Idea but an amalgamation of all the posts and reworks I've read that do not completely remove the abilities.
Except for the passive you can roast me on that all you guys want.
Passive:
Incentivize the Corsair style of gameplay and make Hydroid a specialist at it. Pirates were known for carrying multiple firearms in waistcoats and holsters accompanied by a melee weapon. New passive has three parts.- Secondary kills give Hydroid a bonus to Combo Multiplier for each melee attack.
- Secondary weapons can consume combo Multiplier for a multiplicative bonus damage based on the combo Multiplier for the first shot. (IE; If you have a 5x combo Multiplier your first shot with a secondary would do 5x damage.)
- Allow Hydroid to carry secondary weapons in the Pirmary slot.
This is honestly the best passive I can personally hope for. Depending on what weapons are used it can be extremely powerful. While writing this I originally wanted the passive to be limited to specific weapon types, but the passive makes you want to naturally use those weapons like the Balistica, Twin Rogga, Vasto, Magnus, Brakk, Kraken, and Bronco.
Tempest Barrage:
Fix number of Salvos. 11 on tap cast, 22 on hold cast. Fire rate is determined by Ability Duration Remove Knockdown and ragdoll from base ability and just make it stagger instead. The real change comes from the augments. Pirates were known for carrying different kinds of munition on their ships and these new augments are a reference to that.- Concussive Barrage – This simply adds the knockdown and ragdoll back to the ability.
- Chilling Barrage – This is a reference to chain shot that was used to slow down and capture ships. It Staggers enemies and slows them down with Cold Procs. (No Ragdoll)
- Corrosive Barrage – The full strip that is commonly requested with bonus damage to over guard Enemies.
Now you have a choice in what type of munition your Salvos are using. By having the fire rate be determined by duration we would be given the ability to strip things quickly and competitively with negative duration or prolong the CC and holding capabilities with Higher Duration builds. More build Diversity is a great.
There was a reddit post that went over why the fixed number of salvos is thematic for Hydroid. I will add that once the protests are over. To paraphrase, the Flying Dutchmen had 44 guns, 22 per side. 22 Salvos would be a full broadside (Hold Cast) while 11(Tap Cast) would be half.
Tidal Surge: Might Wanna Change the name to Rip Tide or Rouge Wave.
Reworked from the group up to function like Ivaras Navigator except Hydroid travels with it. Abilities cast while traveling affect the wave in different ways. Ability retains its fixed duration and speed is affected by ability duration. Enemies Hit are still pulled by the ability.- Tempest Barrage – Causes the Wave to continue on without Hydroid
- Undertow – Cause the wave to collapse or Crash into a brief vortex placing Hydroid and enemies hit into Undertow
- Tentacle Swarm - Inflict Slash Procs on enemies hit by the wave. Enemies Killed by Slash procs benefit from Pilfering Swarm.
Tap Casting abilities cause the effect immediately. Hold casting causes the effect to happen at the end of the wave’s duration. All effects have an energy cost tied to them.
Justification of name change Rip Tides and Rouge Waves are ocean phenomena that Sailors feared. Rouge waves were known to sweep entire crews off the Decks of ships out of nowhere. Rip Tides are known for dragging people out to sea.
Undertow:
Completely remove the ability to move from the ability. (This will make sense in a minute I promise.) All abilities cast in undertow have 200% boost to damage. Abilities have new effects while cast in Undertow.- Tempest Barrage – Salvos are focused on the center of undertow on tap cast. Hold casting returns the ability to its default radius.
- Tidal Surge – Causes Hydroid to leave undertow as a wave.
- Tentacle Swarm – Interaction remains the same. The added effect of being able to damage and hold enemies in undertow even after Hydroid leaves. Pilfering Swarm is applied.
Tentacle Swarm:
Add 50% hp True damage to impaled enemies at the end of duration or just execute impaled enemies. When you hear the toilet flushing sound. (Prevents press 4 spam) This gives Hydroid away to get benefit more from Pilfering Swarm.
This rework is designed to have all of Hydroid's abilities flow from one to the other while giving him added utility. Hydroid would get a dynamic ability rotation that can be done situationally.
Rotation:- Tidal surge to gather and collect enemies.
- Tap Tentacle Swarm To inflict Slash.
- Cast Undertow to collapse the wave.
- tap Tempest Barrage to strip all enemies in Undertow.
- Then Casting Tentacle Swarm to hold enemies under so they suffer Damage from both Undertow and Tentacle Swarm.
- Then Hydroid leaves Undertow with Tidal surge to repeat the rotation.
You cannot do this rotation forever because you cannot restore energy while in Wave Form or In Undertow.
This rework Accomplishes the following:
- Adds Scaling Damage with new passive and the ability to apply Undertows and Tentacle swarms damage Simultaneously without the need to sit and wait for it to build up.
- Retains all of Hydroids CC
- Retains Hydroids mobility and makes it easier to control.
- Retains Healing and Status immunity from other augments.
- Two more reliable ways to benefit from Pilfering Swarm
- Adds Full Strip with Augment
- More Build Diversity
- Retains the Thematic Theme of the frame
- Retains Hydroids Survivability
-
Unique combat interactions and Style of play
-
4 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:
So, I'm having problems to understand the 127m for Hydroid and 122.4m for Limbo. As the cast range in unrestricted, I don't know how to add it to the ability range.
Just a small note before I go further. Warframe Uses Radius as a term for abilities instead of diameter. So for the math we do go to real world stuff.
Hydroid and Limbo are Cast Distance (100m) + True Ability Radius (If it's 44m the true radius is 22).
So math for Limbo is 100m + 22m = 122m. We have to use true radius for Limbo and Hydroid because their abilities are center on the reticle and the expands outward after the cast. Still using Limbo as an example when you cast it expands 22m towards you aswell.
Hydroid is even more deceptive he has the same math as Limbo but with the range of it's tentacles added to it. I won't know for sure without looking at the code but they also appear to vary in length rafing between 4m to 7m.
Field spells Like Frost globe and Banshee Sonar that can have multiple instances up at once. I did everything in a single cast. If I did it based on multi casting then whomever had the cheaper and more efficient ability would win.
I also need to go update my knowledge on who has true damage. Seems there have been a lot of changes since I last played.
-
2 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:
Banshee's 4th can reach a bit more than 50m radius. So, we can calculate its area this way π.r²
50 x 50 x 3.1416 = 7,874 m²
Oh it's the math for the area of the circle I was thinking it was 8000² meters which is 64,000,000 meters. Regardless if it's the Radius of Sound Quake (56 meter) it's still nowhere near the 100-meter range That Hydroid and Limbo can Reach because their abilities cast on the reticle. Decided to go and look at the ranges of all the frames cause I feel bad if I'm giving bad information.
- Ivara - ?????? I got to 315m
- Trinity - 280m Well of Life and Energy Vampire
- Loki 210m Switch Teleport
- Valkyr - 210m Ripline
- Ash - 186m Fatal Teleport
- Nyx - 168m Mibd Control
- Sayrn - 168m Spore
- Equinox - 140 Rest
- Inaros - 140m <--- WTF Tether Length
- Necros - 140m Soul Punch
- Nova =- 140m Wortm Hole
- Obreron - 140m Smite. If I could figure out the range of the particle he'd be higher. It's around 15m Extra.
- Titania - 140m Spellbind
- Hydroid - 127m Cast Range and Radius and Tentacle Length
- Limbo - 122.4m Cast Range and Radius.
- Mirage - 120m Estimate cause it's hard to tell.
- Nidus - 112m Parasitic Link
- Wisp - 112m Sol Gate
- Yareli - 112m
- Revenant - 100m
- Banshee - 98m Sonar <--- Ok she was closer with Sonar.
- Korah - 84m
- Caliban - 84m
- Gara - 84m
- Garuda - 84m
- Lavos - 84m
- Protea - 84m
- Voruna - 84m
- Baruuk- 70m
- Ember - 70m
- Excalibur - 70m
- Grendel - 70m
- Mag - 70m
- Rhino - 70m
- Volt - 70m
- Xaku - 70m
- Zephyre - 70m
- Frost - 56m
- Harrow - 56m
- Vauban - 56m
- Sevagoth - 44.8 SHadow has 56m
- Nezha - 53m
- Chroma - 50m
- Mesa - 50m
- Sevagoth - 44.8
- Hildryn - 42m
- Atlas - 42m
- Octavia - 42m
- Wukong 33.5m
- Guass - 33m
Stynaxx, Gyre, and Critine there's no data for yet.
Well, I learn I was wrong. the winner is Ivara on Technicality! Otherwise, it's Trinity leaving me completely wrong! Hydroid and Limbo aren't even in the top ten.
I learned something today. 😁-
1
-
5 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:
Banshee and Nyx have much more CC range than Hydroid. Alone, Banshee can cover almost 8,000m².
I'd like to be Educated where those number are from. That's we'll far beyond what any game engine is capable of.
3 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:I think they won't make new abilities abilities because of the way they are doing reworks these last years. Of course, they reworked Ember, Vauban in a much deeper way in the past, but these last two years they are not even correcting some bugs (even old ones) : Oberon is very bugged, Nova's 2nd is bugged since end of 2019, Banshee's 1st, Atlas passive... just to mention some. So, I'm not expecting a complete rework that would require many hours of work.
Agreeded there is a long list of tweaks that can be made.
Tempest Barrage:
Only let Salvos hit floors.
Allow it to have bonus damage against things in undertow. There was a suggestion
Permanently remove armor(A lot of people want that.)
Fixed Number of Salvos that we can change the Fire Rate of based on Duration (Personaly my favorite)
Bonus damage to Overguard
Damage type change
Tidal Surge Fix The Bugs
Change the Hit box that affects enemies. Right now it's a flat plane. If changed to a V Shape, Cone, or a Half Sphere would allow it to group enemies more effectivly. Nothing will fix it from flinging enemies at High Durations unless they Add brief Radial pull to the end of it's Duration.
Offset the hit box further behind Hydroid or have it lag behind him slightly like Exodia Hunt's Pull. Enemies just fly over you before the Animation of undertow is even done.
Figure out why the Undertow interaction isn't working.
The Slash damage isn't being applied at all.
Give it Aim Glide Gravity. When I learned you could aim glide while tidal surging it made it VASTLY more controllable.
Undertow Fix the Bugs
Make it apply the buff to all abilities.
Make the cast animation faster.
Make the Radius fixed at 10 meters or make it influence the radius of other abilities like it does Swarm.
Make Enemies Stay Inside! Some enemies can just walk out of it. I'm looking at you Nox!
If you travel in Undertow enemies in undertow Travel with you cause right now they don't.
Tentacle Swarm
Enemies damaged by Swarm provide additional loot instead of killed by.
Ability to apply damage to things in Undertow. Think of the Krakens Head chewing on enemies.
Paissive
There are only two realistic tweaks that can be done to it but we are better off replacing it.
100% summon chance.
Damage done by Summoned Tentacle contributes to combo Counter.
These are all changes that Hydroid would benefit from without a 100% Overhaul or removal.
-
1
-
-
6 minutes ago, Qriist said:
Huh? "Line of sight" abilities are those with effects can be blocked by walls. Gyre's massive AOE orbs, for example, don't affect enemies through walls (clipping notwithstanding) despite having large visible areas on the other side. Cataclysm has no such restriction; it's not a line of sight ability. If you're in the rift's visible bubble then you're in the rift.
I don't know if you are joking or not but Line of sight means that if you can see it you can hit it. Obstacles block the line of sight.
Go out on an open-world Tileset (Plains, Fortuna, or Deimos) and cast an ability Hydroid and Limbo can Cast their abilities up to 100 meters away from themselves. That means if they can see they can pretty much hit it. Pretty sure anything beyond that is impossible due to engine limitations.
Limbos Cataclysm you can cast it in the sky and it will only go 100m.
Yes, Gyre's Arcsphere limitation is that walls block the orb's line of sight because the orbs can't see through the wall. Limbo (Cataclysm) and Hydroid (Tentacle Swarm) Can hit walls 100 meters away from them and through the walls too. If you count Tentacle Grab (15m+2m) Hydroid has the highest range, if you don't Limbo Has the Highest range (16m). Yes, The tentacles vary in length but all are greater than 2 meters in length.
Ivara has a Higher range with a navigator but you are guiding a projectile from a gun so I dunno wether to count that or not. If say Ivara for the highest range I won't argue. -
32 minutes ago, (PSN)Svenx13 said:
The last 5 years of the game?
By then there are tools available by/before that content. Unless you plan on playing all content in Warframe without Shards, Arcanes, Operator Abilities, and end game Mods?
By then my Hydroid is Sitting at Two Amber shards with 50% cast speed reduction and 3 Red shards for 30% more Power strength. Unairu focus School for full stripping enemies and Anomoly for grouping.
What I'm trying to say is that beyond a certain point you have the tools. A line needs to be draw when you begin talking about how effective a warfare is when it comes to content.
The last Node on the Start Chart and the Last Node of steel path are two completely different points of scaling and progression.
Say I'm at the end of Steel Path. To say it's a meme build and I had to invest to much to get those results when everyone has access to those tools if they invested the time.
So either you have those tools or you don't.
-
5 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:On 2023-06-09 at 3:54 PM, Ruison said:
Swarm breaking over-guard only ever happens on low to mid-level enemies. Beyond that it is useless. Again, you keep taking the context out of things to make Hydroid appear better than he is.
Also, as has been said before; you do all of this extra busy-work with Hydroid, when there are frames out there who can deal with Eximus units far more efficiently and in a much less boring way.
I don't think I'm taking things out of Context at all. Scaling things to Steel Path and Arbitrations is bad practice. That content is meant for players who want a challenge and by then you should have all of what the game offers with helmlith, operators, Arcanes and Mods.
The main chunk of the game the MAX level you will see is 55-60 which is the standard content of the game unless you are doing an endurance run. If that's low to mid level content and Hydroid has no issue.
What's painful is that WE ASKED for steel path and then complained that it's too hard and enemies scaled poorly. Now we are asking for thing to make content that was meant to be difficult, easy.
It is wrong to take a frame and say it needs to be able to full strip, do precent Hp damage or Have precent Damage reduction or they are not viable or are too weak. Congratulations that's building a frame that trivializes content like Octavia.
Hydroid Already has the percent HP damage in Undertow. It's slow an make you immobile but It's a trade off for what you get. You become invulnerable for crying out loud and Heal and teammates can contribute to the damage to by shooting you and there is no increase in cost per amount of enemies affected. Is also a knock down that opens enemies to ground finishers. It boosts one of his other abilities too.
So I propose a question. Removing Steel Path, Narmar, Abitrations and Zairmon tier 4-5 bounties from the Equation, What is Hydroid missing?
Surviability? Hydroid has Two instances for Invulnerability, Status Cleanse, Status Immunity, Self Healing, and looting boost for orbs. Third Highest Shield Capacity in the game.
Damage? Has Infinite scaling damage and is one of the only three Frames that have True Damage.
Crowd Control? Hydroid has the Longest range CC in the game. No other frame even Touches the range he has. Limbo is the only other with longer range because of a technicality. (Flinging banished enemies with Izatle Archwing and using stasis).
To address the sounds good on paper that's going to come.
Stop saying you go into a puddle and sit there. That is player choice and not a true reflection of the ability in the slightest. You can move with tidal surge. If DE fixed the stupid bug there is nothing stopping Hydroid from swallowing entire missions worth of enemies other than energy. Honestly that's probably why they left it broken instead of fixing it.
If you are unable to control tidal surge the decrease the duration to where it's low enough for you to control and build yourself up to higher durations. Sweet spot for me is 160% Duration. Jumping straight into a 200%+ duration build you are going to run into everything. Also you can Aim glide into it for better control.
-
On 2023-06-10 at 7:19 AM, (PSN)Svenx13 said:
You should try the current Grendel your Playstyle sounds like his kit.
(Dashing, ragdolling, eating)
I like Grendel but he lacks that wide-range control I love in frames like Hydroid, and Vauban. What Vauban Lacks the LOS range That Hydroid has though with Vauban you have to be almost on top of enemies to use but without a safe approach. Hydroid can hit enemies for 120m and still has a safe approach with Tidal surge.
On 2023-06-10 at 7:19 AM, (PSN)Svenx13 said:With overguard most cc frames have trouble with surviving. That's why I don't play Vauban but zephyr. It is far easier to stay alive. My death count with khora tripled with the overguard update. But that is the purpose of overguard that you active fight against it. So a no to strip overguard abilities.
For me, there are two pillars of Hydroid that change the way I play him completely. Narrow-Minded and Over Extended. If I know I am going into a mission that will have a ton over Guard I will you narrow-minded to reduce the range of the tentacle swarm and drop it on over guard enemies. Swarm will break over guard very quickly because of how the tentacles apply damage to things that can't be cc'd.
I don't agree with Swarm being useless in steel path but if we are bringing steel path into the equation. I honestly think if you are going to balance HYdroid you should do it a Startchart level where enemies max out at level 60. If steel path is involved then at that point you should be using helmlith and operators to fill in the gaps that hydroid has.
As far as the basic Star Chart, 250% Strength Tentacle Swarm will one-shot every none heavy enemy on the initial summon which for me is plenty to get the job done.
-
14 hours ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:
Yeah some valid points I guess. Thought the whole "if you think puddle is there to afk then you aren't doing right" is... hilarious. Undertow straight up by design is to become immune and to sit there doing nothing. Kind of like what pre nerf wukong did.
That sadly is the what the community believes. "Sit there and do nothing." For me it's a channel Buff, Knock down or Heal(If I am Running Curative).
If I was Facing a line of Eximus Tidal Surge lets me approach and Single them out ( Ragdolling the Weak enemies away), Get under them With under tow, and Finnally Swarm boosted by Undertow.
While swarm will not kill them It will break their overboard and cost me Zero Ammo. When they ragdoll, I'll do the same rotation away from them so swarm will drop them for me to shoot and kill.
Undertow used to be that death puddle back when it paused status effects on enemies cause them to have infinite duration while in Undertow and Still do damage. They fixed that big a long time ago I personally don't use it to kill.
Undertow is also tool to Drop flailing enemies. Something I think only I do. Because even if Tentacle Swarm has 40 Meter Radius, in Undertow the most it can have is 6 meter Radius unless you hold to cast to override that.
I agree it is slow as hell, if you don't spam tidal surge enough.(Joke) I don't use it to kill. Might use it for a moment to type in char too.
14 hours ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:On another note I don't take Meta into account as I don't keep up with it and run whatever I want to. But if you're geared towards that then cool you have my respect.
I really don't care about what is meta at all. I Never have. I was actually shocked that my weapons Got incarnon. I know they are Kinda Meta now but I don't think they used to be (Torid and Atamos). Now if they will un-nerf Attica that'd be great or Prime it, Incarnon or something.
While everyone else is farming out the new shinies from updates I'm trying to figure out how to get my favorite bad weapons to perform in Steel Path. (Akmagnus)
14 hours ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:The passive change? I understand. Passive abilities are hard to come up with. I think the issue with hydroid's current passive is that the tentacle he Summons serves no benefit. Maybe update it to better suit what it's intended to do, like apply Pilfering swarm's loot drop chance while acting like a miniature zephyr tornado for your melee weapon. Reliable and works well.
I still don't care about the passive at all even said that in the main post. For me the hold to cast has been his passive. Yes, know people hate it but that's par for the course at this point. I don't understand why. It does not hinder your shooting or movement in any way like other abilities. You are trading 1-2 Seconds of unhindered gameplay to double the duration of Tempest Barrage or Double the Radius of Tentacle swarm.
I'll admit I stopped using Pilfering Swaem after they stopped it from scaling with power Strength (That sweet 5x Loots). Now I just Tidal Surge enemies into Strangle Dome.
14 hours ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:Tempest barrage is a bad ability because of tracking flinging enemies and corrosive proc changes. Augment should be perma strip and Barrage shouldn't fling enemies around. Maybe have it delete massive chunks of overguard similar to grasp of lohk making it a competitive option for helminth.
For me Tempest Barrage and Swarm have been the "I need less people shooting a me" buttons because I'm Deathly allergic to bullets. Tempest Barrage take care of the things over there while I deal with the things over here with Swarm.
I love the Idea of it doing bonus damage to or stripping overguard! Make the augment do that instead of Corrosive and remove the ragdoll.
14 hours ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:Why even bother giving hydroid an entirely new kit when he has abilities that can be useful and inaros exists and would appreciate it more?
That I agree with he doesn't need a new kit he just really just need the abilities to have a avenue to do different things. I can't speak on Inaros cause I've only played him in Diviri.
I saw a post on Reddit earlier about giving a Fixed number of Salvos to Tempestest Barrage and having the fire rate scale off of Duration. He said something bout making it 46 salvo's cause Davy Johns Ship had that many Cannons. I'll see if I can find that again. That combined with your suggestion about it stripping over guard would be great change. So a low duration with the augment would insta strip Overguard and pop nullified bubbles quick.
This is great though this is what this is for!😁
-
2
-
-
2 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:
You keep missing the point again and again and again; the mechanics with Hydroid are the problem. Any build you make is going to be sub-par to literally everything else in the game because again its not about the damage, it's about the implementation and mechanics of his abilities.
I'm missing the point?
I'm not trying to make him something he is not or give him a copy-paste ability from another frame. I want him to keep his Identity by taking what he has and applying it to the rest of the kit. It would be nice if they fix that one stupid bug that he's had for years.
Pitiful, Useless, other frames do it better. People said the EXACT same thing about "Frost. Get rid of his globe, Limbos is better." Your Argument is literally take everything that gives him his Identity because X, Y, Z frame does it better.
Tempest Barrage is crap because Vauban's Photon Strike is better so, you should just get rid of it completely.Tidal Surge is just a dash that gets stuck on everything and Revenant, Excalibur, Rhino, and Lavos Dashes are better so just get rid of it.
Undertow doesn't do enough and doesn't Heal like Wukong's and it's just a meme ability so get rid of it and here's a long list of frames that do invulnerability better.
Tentacle Swarm was Replaced by Khora's Strangle Domeso we don't need that anymore.
I say take what he has and make it actually work and Synergise instead of throwing everything that makes him Hydroid in the recycling bin which is what 90% of the suggestions are trying to do. If you're gonna do that you're better off making a new Warframe.
You say his kit is bad. That's great you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. Your opinions are not wrong. I disagree with them but they are not wrong.
You say that he does no damage. I provide evidence of him doing damage but it's a meme build because it uses all the systems that are provided to all players and frames to use? This also Hydroid is an Area Control frame that is not meant to do damage.
Let me Preface that I am not up to date on all the new frames and nor do I know what they all do but to my knowledge there are only two area control frames, Vauban and Hydroid, where all of their abilities provide some form of crowd control or area denial. I don't know if PHoton Strike Ragdolls enemies but if it doesn't;t then I redact my statement.
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, TheGodofWiFi said:
o, you posted a video in which someone took another warframes ability and a bunch of archon shards, stuck them on Hydroid, which then gave the tentacles relatively low damage numbers. Oh and bear in mind, that video was a literal joke as stated by the creator themselves in the description, again because the damage numbers were below average and there are much better options for damage frames out there AND Hydroid's way of dealing damage is still rubbish due to the core issues with his ability mechanics.
Are you happy with these rules of engagement?
No Helmlith
No Shards
No Set Mods
No Prime Mods
No Operator
No companion.
I'll see if I can do it. I have a old build that might suffice but it's very old.
-
33 minutes ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:
And if the example video was SO GOOD, why even bother putting in a forum for a rework?
On 2023-06-07 at 3:51 AM, TheGodofWiFi said:Wrong again.
You see, this is why I can feel confident in saying you know nothing about what makes Hydroid bad in terms of community opinion and actual gameplay application. Tentacle Swarm, is useless.
It's damage? Pathetic.
It's CC? Irritating and inefficient.
It's utility? Outclassed
I gave an example of it doing damage, killing and it being useful?
34 minutes ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but have you ever used hydroid back when he was "meta" or reworked? He wasn't good. He was basically what destiny has for warlock; run one thing and do nothing else. Hydroid was cast undertow and let allies do the rest. Boring, right?
If you look at my account I was there for the RELEASE of Hydroid and no if I undertow something dies. Hydroid is was actually what got me playing the game.
If people read I'm literally asking for Undertow's passive to apply to Hydroids Other abilities. If it wasn't clear I'll make that adjustment to the post.
Today's Meta is all about primers and then dealing massive damage. Corrosive Barrage is a decent primer. Undertow would make it more reliable if you could hit it which is why reducing the radius of Barrage in Undertow is such a big help because it would almost guarantee 10 Stacks. I mean it's a guaranteed 10 stacks now but you need 190% range.
If you think Puddle there for I sit and AFK. The you aren't doing it right. At most I'm in undertow for a 2 Seconds. Unless it's Archon Hunt Defence and there is no Limbo and we aren't killing things fast enough. I will sit if I need to but with the amount Curative undertow gives back you don't need to either. Just popping in for a top off and back out is enough. It's a stupid cheap full heal for all targets.
Either way this post is doing exactly what I wanted. So let's keep going just be respectful.
-
4 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:
Your proposed tweak would do literally nothing to improve Hydroid as again, like I keep telling you; damage is not as important to people when it comes to implementation and gameplay.
I never said it needs more damage. As I've started before he already has damage. My proposal does nothing but change him back to the point where his kit felt good to use.
On 2023-06-01 at 8:48 PM, Ruison said:The BIGGEST thing you can do for him is All abilities cast in Undertow have the same Range/Radius of Undertow.
I stated it pretty plainly there in bold letters.
Reasons why:
Tempest barrage could hit Undertow and stack the Usless corrosive proc faster. Even then you do not need corrosive barrage to do this. You can hit a single enemy with anything like Symulor, Torid or Pox and it will apply status to everything in Undertow when pulled in. That's because all damage into Undertow is split between all enemies in undertow.
Enemies would also naturally fall into undertow at the end of tidal surge.
If I had it my way, I know every one will hates this, I'd give hydroid a fix Radius of 10m on all of his abilities. Holding to cast while outside of Undertow would increase the radius and Hold casting while inside Undertow would decrease the radius.
Or increase Undertow base radius to 10 meters. Nerfing it from 18m to 4m was way to big of a nerf In 2017.
On 2023-06-07 at 3:51 AM, TheGodofWiFi said:As a long-suffering Hydroid enthusiast,
You said your are an Enthusiast yet don't say anything positive.
You've said everything in is kit is pitifully bad and useless. Yet, I can give you a use case for all his abilities.
You've also said that he has pitiful damage when and Video of him doing 10-15k DPS.
-
13 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:
No it is not. Tempest Barrage is crap in every sense of the word. Pointless charge mechanic, unreliable projectiles, pitiful damage, pitiful CC, the augment was made worthless in Elements 2.0 so its no help either. This ability is useless. It does nothing to enemies apart from tickle them. It needs a complete overhaul.
At a point in time, Tempest Barrage or Bastille was required for The Law of Retribution but ultimately Bastille was preferred. That being said a max Range tempest Barrage could keep enemies from entering the plate room. Hydroid's Tempest Barrage is one of the few Line of Sight abilities in the game and the only other frame that has a Line of Sight Ability that I know of is Limbo's Cataclysm.
Hold to cast doubles Tempest Barrages Duration and that's bad?
Multiple instances of a radial knockdown that can target unlimited enemies bad?
It knocks down enemies that's what it's for. I agree that the augment is bad now after Element 2.0. I don't even know when that happened.
14 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:Again, 100% wrong. Tidal Surge's only use is in its augment. Apart from that it is a useless travel ability that gets caught on absolutely everything from stairs to a slight incline in the ground. Like TB, it is useless.
Go negative duration and it still gives you 1 second of invulnerability and with Breif Respite it fills shields for shield gating. For me, the ability is controllable at 150% duration and I don't get hung on anything unless there's a sharp turn. I also thoroughly enjoy using max duration to fling enemies into another zip code.
So, use it for the shield gate and you don't need the augment.
In the Exploiter orb fight, I don't think any other frame can go from point A to B to A for Therma Faster than Hydroid except for Revenant. Guass and Volt slide around too much. Open fields is where Tidal surge shines.
You know you can aim glide in it to avoid a lot of obstacles?14 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:I honestly don't know whether to laugh at this or not. Undertow is overpowered in the same way turning off the game and going to sleep is overpowered. Complete invulnerability is nothing new, multiple frames have it such as Nyx, Revenant, Limbo, and even Nidus if you want to count his passive which means he simply cannot die as long as there are enemies around.
Hydroid's invulnerability is unique, in just how awful it is. Yea he has total invulnerability, but what do you sacrifice in return? Your ability to run, your ability to use melee, your ability to use guns, your ability to jump, your ability to even move faster than a particularly indolent snail. Hydroid basically has to sacrifice 90% of his interaction with the game systems to become immortal. You can only use your powers, which again are useless. Using Tidal Surge to move is so clunky and again it gets caught on everything. All the aforementioned frames have reasonable drawbacks to their immortality which can be overcome, like for example Nyx immortality means she also moves very slowly, but she can still use her guns and melee. Her slowness can also be overcome by using a melee weapon with leaping combos or just by using your operator to move around, which is great. Hydroid has nothing but drawbacks to his immortality. It is the worst way immortality has been implemented in the game so far.
Undertow also encapsulates the failure of Hydroid's design as a whole. Even back when Undertow was released it was considered a joke ability. It is an ability that goes against the playstyle of current Warframe as it promotes a boring, slow-paced camping playstyle where players just sit around in one position. Warframe no longer works like that anymore and hasn't for at least half a decade. It is considered by almost everyone these days as one of the worst abilities in the entire game. It is by no means over-powered at all. The fact your rework suggestion is basically focused on nerfing the other abilities for the sake of undertow is something I will definitely get to in a bit.
I agree with it being the flaw of his kit for only the reason of it being bugged since pretty much the release of Hydroid and DE hasn't fixed it yet. Thats the part that pains me the most.
An ability that can hold an infinite amount of enemies like a blackhole, make you invulnerable, does scaling HP damage, and can heal you with the augments is considered a joke ability. Curative undertow is one of the only abilities that can heal agents in Defence. You are calling it laughable bad?
There was one point in time when Undertow would pause status effects on enemies and since you could shoot from in from the outside you could get max stacks of status on enemies.14 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:Wrong again.
You see, this is why I can feel confident in saying you know nothing about what makes Hydroid bad in terms of community opinion and actual gameplay application. Tentacle Swarm, is useless.
It's damage? Pathetic.
It's CC? Irritating and inefficient.
It's utility? Outclassed.
Tentacle Swarm is a completely unreliable, inefficient ability that complete fails in everything it tries to do. Like Tempest Barrage, its RNG based, in the fact that you have little control over where tentacles spawn and the only time you are ever sure to catch enemies is on the initial casting. After that, you basically have to hope that the enemy AI makes it walk into the range of the janky, horribly animated tentacle and that tentacle manages to register the enemy and grab it. It also makes it near impossible to hit enemies who have been grabbed it is just flails them about all over the place uselessly. The only thing this ability had going for it, was its loot augment and Khora has completely replaced Hydroid as the preferred loot frame, even though her gain is slightly lower, due to how much easier and more reliable her version of the ability is. People would prefer have a slightly reduced loot chance in a looter game, than use Hydroid. That tells you everything you need to know.
Don't recite the deep magics to me I was there when it was written! LMAO. Hydroid has 15% of my over 1000-hour playtime.
Yeah, this kind of damage has always been possible since Atlas came out. The old strategy was to use Mag pull, Atlas petrify and the Hydroid would tentacle Swarm. Now Hydroid can do it solo with all the new shinies available. My record back then was 9.863 DPS with Tentacle Swarm but now there's a good chance with the right setup to push it to 18k. In that Video, he isn't even casting it from inside the undertow either.
Yes, it lost its title as the best loot ability but I stand by what I saidOn 2023-06-02 at 9:47 AM, Ruison said:Don't tell DE but Tentacle Swarm is one of the Highest DPS abilities in the game. With the right setup you can have 15k DPS. Probably higher now with Shards and Arcanes. It's been like this ever since Atlas (Petrfy) came out.
It is also great at killing Liches and Sisters too! It's my sincerest hope that DE takes the same approach they did with Vauban and Frost. One tweak may be all that's needed to make a frame feel better. Look at what happened to Revenant. He was considered dead on arrival and now he's one of the best tanks in the game.
Then one Singular tweak to Hydroid's kit that may break him is being able hit Undertow with all the Salvos of Tempest Barrage even with the Corrosive Nerf he would be able to self-strip armor more reliably. Right now you need at least 190% range for all the salvos to hit undertow but you have to make a choice to decrease your damage by removing power strength or decrease your damage by removing Power Duration from your build to achieve this. Doing either makes it do less damage.
Tempest Barrage at higher Duration has more Salvos which means more Corrosive procs in a single cast. I'm asking for that one tweak that nerfs him to make him stronger and it's only a nerf while in Undertow.
For the love of god, please change Frost's bubble.
in Warframes
Posted
Do not bend words.
I gave an example of what could happen and what DE does. People complain then DE gut or remove. That can happen and has happened. The title of the topic(I said post before) is...
"For the love of god, please change Frost's bubble."
Far less than he had before and the only reason people (Not saying Specifically You ) like him now is because he is a press button win frame now. He already had armor strip but it was unreliable. He already had Damage but People didn't know about it or how to use it or refused to use it. He already had survivability but apparently it wasn't easy enough to use?
Watch DE remove the blocking bullets aspect of Snowglobe and then just have it only slow enemies and add damage to attacks.
DE: "This is what you wanted right?"
Frost Players: "No!"
DE: "To bad we are committed to this change and we will revisit Frost in 3 years when no one plays him or his playrate drops below 5%."
Hydroids case.
DE: "We are slowly gonna nerf Hydroid patch after patch since Update 14. Ignore his bugs for 9+ years and only when we gets to a playrate of 3% are we gonna give him any attention. Rework time! Let's give him Elemental Ward and Vex Armor on one ability. Hey, his playrate jumped to 26%. We did good right because the number went up, right? RIGHT???"
Me: "No you gave him the same ability that 40% of the roster has."