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Posts posted by YagoXiten

  1. 35 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    Clearly you have not seen this;

    because that is exactly what this person was doing. Which is why Nujintuai was not a reasonable person and was using false logic. And no, they were not implying that he is "reasonably effective". They outright stated if he could do the content, he didn't need to be changed. I don't know how you think this is going to lend credence to your argument, because it doesn't, due to the fact it is blatantly clear what they were saying as well as the fact that you are not them.

    Yea, they pretended like they didn't take the word need to its literal extreme and acting like if Hydroid could handle the games content at all, then he did not need a change, instead acting like I was "putting words in their mouth". All you need to do is go back two pages to see that was the logic they were using and acting like just because Hydroid could get through the Steel Path, that somehow meant he didn't need a rework. Their logic was flawed and they knew it, which is why they did a completely typical response of someone when they have clearly lost and just accused me of putting words in their mouth before slinking off tail between the legs.

    That's why I never bothered replying to them, since that accusation was so blatantly false and laughable that it wasn't even worth the time and now you have just used it, which makes your response even more hilarious.

    I did see what he said. But part of the reason that you're supposed to interpret people charitably is to divine why they make the arguments they do. Most flawed arguments are made because they're trying to communicate something complex and nuanced and a shorthand version is easier than writing walls of text that no one will read. Especially not when people refuse to engage in good faith as you've bragged repeatedly about doing.

    The context of this thread is not improvements to what Hydroid is or seriously addressing his current problems. It's a complete reimagining of him with little if any resemblance to his current self. If you're going to just ignore that incredibly important detail I can see why you might think 'Hydroid needs no changes' is some absolutist and absurd stance that he needs literally zero help.

    35 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    You claimed it was not a problem not two post ago.

    There's a difference between classifying something as a thing that could use improvements and classifying something as a problem. But you're so committed to being disingenuous I suppose that nuance must have escaped you.

    35 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    I don't interpret people charitably when they use hideously flawed logic like;

    "Well I can survive in the Steel Path"

    "If he can do the content, then he doesn't need a rework" 


    "You just don't know how to play properly".

    That is the kind of nonsense that immediately tells you that the person who said is very clearly biased and not open to any kind of constructive conversation whatsoever. You are also within that crowd, since you claim that Undertow is not a problem when it very clearly is.

    You are joking right. Each and every one of those frames you just mentioned have far better CC capability than Hydroid. Even though Zephyr's 4th is similar to Hydroids, at the very least her tornadoes are 100% guaranteed to pick up enemies reliably due the mechanics of tornadoes and the fact range also helps their reach.

    Please remind me, which of Ash's abilities have relevant CC? Which of Trinity's?

    35 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    I mean honestly, if you're going to say Nyx has worse CC than Hydroid then you might as well just say he's the best frame in the game. And you wonder why I don't take people like you seriously.

    There you go again with silly false dichotomies.

    35 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    No he has more survivability than her due to his puddle. So what? People actually use Banshee Prime more than Hydroid Prime according to the official usage chart;


    I am well aware of the chart. It's been mentioned quite a few times.

    35 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    So yea, while his puddle makes him more survivable than a frame who basically has no defence abilities at all, that doesn't mean its suddenly a good ability. That is a fallacy.

    I never argued that.

    35 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    I take you're referring to Tidal Surge, a terrible travel ability which is demonstrably slower than bullet-jumping.

    At what duration, exactly?

    35 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    And so what if those frames you mentioned don't have an in-built travel ability? Do you honestly think that will make someone pick Hydroid over any of them due to that? Again, another ludicrous defence.

    I never claimed that that would make someone pick Hydroid over them. I was only responding your absurd statement that he's better than no other Warframe at anything. He is objectively faster than several other frames, he's objectively harder to kill than several other frames.

    35 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    Ah so now you're going for another fallacy by assuming that I've never played Hydroid. I suppose if you've dug that far already you might as well keep going.

    This may blow your mind; I play Hydroid and I hate Undertow. I love Hydroids theme, but he simply is not worth using at all due to the way his abilities work. Which is why he needs a rework.

    Also, who cares if certain players like yourself think the puddle is great. The majority don't and that's what counts.

    Citation needed. The fact that the forums like to complain about Undertow is hardly proof of a majority. You did, however, just provide rather strong evidence that you're more interested in what you imagine Hydroid to be than what he is or ever has been. It can be hard when you want to like something more than you actually like it.

    35 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    You're absolutely right. You don't need to be the best of the best, but you do need to actually be good at something. Hydroid is not. He is a student of none and a master of none. He has no advantage over any frame at all and there is literally no point in using him when you have so many better options out there that do what he does, but far better.

    He's good at a variety of mission types. I'd much rather have him on an Interception or Defense mission than Ash, for example. I'd rather have him on Survival missions than Banshee. He's not great, but he's certainly not a chore to play and do well with. He's a generalist. A mediocre one, sure. But that's not the same as bad. There are plenty of ways to improve him which don't involve removing him from the game and replacing him with an imposter using the same name.

    35 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    That is why he needs a rework. He doesn't need to make frames like Inaros, Nyx, Chroma or others irrelevant, but he does need to to offer something that would give a player pause for thought when choosing which frame to run with, because right now the amount of thought people spare for Hydroid is about as much as the dust mites in their bathroom carpets.

    What a strange list. Nyx is already irrelevant. She's in worse shape than Hydroid is. Chroma's rather irrelevant outside of a handful of very specific things. Quite frankly those two in particular perform worse than Hydroid on like half the mission types.

    35 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    He needs to have something that the otherframes do not have and right now, all that he has is the fact that he is absolute trash when compared to any other frame in his category. Inefficient damage, inefficient CC and inefficient utility/survivability. The main strikes that determine a Warframe's usefulness.

    Usefulness for what, exactly? And just how useful do you expect a frame to be?

    35 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    Stat increases will not help Hydroid. The main reason why he has remained a joke and unpopular in the community since his introduction, is due to the way his mechanics work. His stats are an afterthought if the mechanics are garbage. His mechanics are inefficient, awkward and just plain awful. Half of his ability are RNG based and the other half are just useless. You and other like Nujintuai just don't want change purely because it means you'd have to leave your comfort zone. That's not an excuse to not have a rework, especially since he is in such a bad place at the moment.

    Tempest Barrage's RNG is more of a quirk than a serious hit to its reliability (at least, prior to the status stacking patch breaking it). Tentacle Swarm is an issue, though, yes. But you can improve his mechanics substantially with just tweaks.

    I'm quite comfortable leaving my comfort zone, actually!

    35 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    A rework would be a far bigger buff than just some hollow tweaks that solve none of his core issues.

    These frames have bigger problems than Hydroid....

    See this is why I dismiss any argument that says things like this. Completely ludicrous. I'm pretty sure you're just trolling actually, considering you say a frame like Mesa has bigger problems that Hydroid.

    Once again I'm just going to stop replying, because its clear to anyone how poor these "defences" of Hydroid are and there really is no point in talking to someone who says that the top-tier frames have worse problems than the worst frame in the game.

    Mesa has more or less one ability: Peacemaker. Ballistic Battery is probably the worst ability in the game. No one is fighting to have Mesa in their squad for Shooting Gallery or Shatter Shield, either. Having one good ability, one trash ability, and two set and forget abilities is an awful lot of wasted design space. That's a far bigger sin than being mediocre at any given role.

    The efficacy of Mirage's Eclipse is based upon tileset generation and rarely if ever gives its full value. Prism's cast animation is awful and both its damage and CC are redundant and inferior to her augmented Sleight of Hand in most cases. Sleight of Hand itself is rather awful without the augment, too.

    Quite frankly, I'd much rather play a mediocre generalist like Hydroid than a cobbled together specialist like Mesa whose only claim to fame is having the biggest and most irrelevant overkill numbers.

  2. 21 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    No they gave up because their argument was based on the false logic that if something can handle all the game's content regardless if was inefficient or not then it does not need a rework, taking the definition of the word need to its literal extreme and using the "You mad because you can't get used to Hydroid's playstyle", which is the exact same thing you are using.

    Do you ever get tired of arguing with strawmen? No reasonable person is going to assert that any Warframe, no matter how underpowered, is literally incapable of completing all the content in the game. Conversely, no reasonable person is going to assert that because any Warframe is capable of completing all the content in the game that they are literally incapable of being underpowered and needing some work. The implied, though not outright stated, caveat to their argument is that Hydroid is reasonably effective at all the game's content and that that is a significant reason not to majorly rework him like in the OP or in most of the replies.

    21 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    They used poor arguments and others also pointed that out. That is why they stopped talking.

    No, they told you, quite explicitly, why they quit talking:

    On 2020-08-18 at 7:20 AM, (PS4)Nujintuai said:

    You also like to put words in people's mouths and attempt to dominate conversations with beforementioned absolute statements--- and this fails, as it has this time, as you havent convinced me of anything other than you simply dont like Hydroid.

    You are correct about one thing though.. as a conversation requires two people and you have chosen to stop, then there is no result other than the end of the conversation. 

    Which is true, by the way.

    21 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    What Undertow is meant to be used for, is very clear; it's his main source of in-built damage dealing and survivability. DE designed it that way. Before Damage 3.0, Hydroid players paired the puddle with Corrosive Barrage to kill enemies.

    And it's reasonably effective at those roles albeit defensively far more so than damage. No one argued that it couldn't be improved. And I'm sure that plenty of folks would agree that it should be improved somewhat. Which is painfully obvious if you actually interpret the folks defending it charitably rather than trying to shout them down and then proudly claiming victory when folks decide you're not worth arguing with.

    21 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    Hydroid only has weaknesses, Undertow being a big one. Every other frame outclasses him in every area. The loot frame was his last niche defence against a rework and it wasn't even much of one anyway, and now Khora has replaced him. He has no point in existing right now.

    That's an absolute and blatantly ludicrous assertion. Ash, Chroma, Gara, Garuda, Gauss, Grendel, Harrow, Mesa, Nekros, Nyx, Protea, Revenant, Trinity, Valkyr, Wukong, and Zephyr all have objectively worse crowd control than Hydroid does. And you can't seriously say he has less survivability than say, Banshee. He's also lot faster than a frame like Trinity or Frost or Rhino.

    21 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    Then you deny one of Hydroid's biggest problems. The puddle has been and remains one of the most inferior and mocked abilities in the game.

    And it's one of the most popular abilities with people who actually play Hydroid.

    21 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    Harp on about using it differently all you want, but it will not change the fact it is highly inferior/inefficient to play Hydroid in both your playstyle and a campers playstyle, because either way he has no real advantages over other frames in any area whatsoever. He has to put in ten times the effort of other warframes and that is not good.

    He doesn't need tweaks. He needs a rework.

    Failure to be the best in any given area is not an argument for a rework. And even if he isn't as good at any given thing as he should be that in and of itself isn't an argument for a rework. That's an argument to buff him. There are frames who need attention far more than Hydroid. Ash, Banshee, Frost, Inaros, Mesa, Mirage, Nyx, Trinity, Valkyr, and Zephyr all have problems far worse than he does.

  3. 2 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    Ah, another one who likes the classic "You don't play it right" flawed argument. That's two now on this thread. Why don't you get back to the last page and see how the last person who used that argument turned out.

    No its not. Why do you think DE even added scaling damage to it in the first place; to encourage you to stay in it longer.

    Pretty poor rate of healing and vastly inferior to other methods out there.

    Take literally any other stealth frame for that, as they can be invisible, use their weapons and move faster than a fatty with no legs.

    This isn't a slow paced stealth shooter.

    Since when you do need to be in Undertow to do that. Press one button; done refreshed.

    Again, far better options out there for things like that.

    You never had any valid point. You've just shown how utterly inferior Undertow is compared to other abilities in various situations.

    The last person gave up arguing with you because you make a ton of false dichotomies and hyperbolic statements you pass off as fact. Debating so poorly that folks decide it's a waste of time to engage further isn't the winning endorsement of your arguments that you think it is.

    I'm not saying you're wrong because you don't use it correctly. I'm saying you don't use it correctly because you're wrong about what it is for. It has scaling damage to partially offset it taking away conventional damage sources. You're only in it as long as you need to be to keep yourself safe.

    There are better defensive abilities than Undertow, better nukes than Miasma, and better stealths than Smokescreen, but that doesn't make them bad or useless abilities.

    I don't even deny that Hydroid has problems, but Undertow isn't one of them. Tempest Barrage has been pretty awful to use since they broke its functionality with the status stacking patch, Tidal Surge could use some tweaks to improve its handling and work more like Mach Rush or Cloud Walker, and Tentacle Swarm and his passive are downright awful.

  4. 19 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

    The point is that Undertow has no appeal whatsoever. It's a terrible ability that takes away 90% of the games interaction, doesn't do great damage, a poor CC ability and is incredibly slow. There is quite literally no incentive to use the ability at all. It promotes a slow-paced camping playstyle, which Warframe hasn't officially revolved around since 2016.

    Every single other ability in its category is far better. Undertow excels at being incredibly boring and inefficient, nothing else.

    This is just one of the reasons why Hydroid needs a huge overhaul.


    Folks like you complain that the ability has mechanics such as being unable to collect loot, slow scaling damage, little CC, and poor movement speed all of which actively discourage you from camping in it and then, somehow, reach the conclusion that that's what the ability is for. When you're that committed to using it wrong it isn't surprising you'd hate it.

    It's a reactive defensive ability. You use it to look at your surroundings. You use it to safely reload. You use it to refresh your shields. You use it to heal with Curative Undertow. You use it to avoid being detected by patrols in stealth missions. You use it to refresh Tempest Barrage when things get more difficult than you were expecting. You use it to dodge telegraphs like Kela De Thaym's rockets. That's why you can jump and roll out of it and why it has such a quick cast animation and a low Energy cost.

    Thank you for proving my point.

  5. Does Hydroid need changes? Yes. Changes like these? No.

    Fix Tempest Barrage tossing enemies around instead of knocking them down like it used to do. Fix Undertow failing to scoop up enemies affected by Tidal Sure. Fix Undertow casts interrupting manual reloads. Adjust Tentacle Swarm. He does not need two abilities which are remotely deployed persistent damage and crowd control fields that make it impossible to score headshots.

    Y'all really need to quit suggesting versions of Undertow which involve placing the puddle remotely. You completely miss the appeal of Undertow.

    And quit going on about Hydroid as a loot frame. 'Loot frame' is an underwhelming niche and always has been. Most of us don't need additional copies of Ammo Drum or more Nano Spores. I won't say it isn't some nice utility now and again, but it doesn't matter even half as much as people like to pretend.

  6. In order to have a discussion there has to be something worth discussing, and there isn't. An ignorant bigot was deplatformed, and it was deserved.

    Hopefully the changes to the partner program mean that bigots aren't able to get platforms in the first place, and that DE doesn't allow disingenuous cries for 'civility' and 'diversity of thought' to be weaponized against outspoken minorities in the community, as almost always happens.

    30 minutes ago, (PS4)Dyin-Kyo said:

    So targeting people isnt toxic? Do i need to put half the comments in quotes for you?

    Of course it is toxic. It's just that they're not actually interested in stifling toxicity. What they're interested in is targeting someone they don't like. They either lack the self-reflection to realize that that's what they're after or they're very well aware of it, but know they can't admit it publicly without discrediting themselves. So instead they'll play semantic games that grant paper thin legitimacy to their bad faith arguments and plausible deniability that that's what they're doing.

    • Like 7
  7. Don't give in to the vocal minority here on the forums and Reddit who cry 'censorship' when some ignorant bigot gets deplatformed in a video game for 'a simple disagreement' about human rights and basic decency. Don't let them concern troll and conflate someone standing up for themselves with harassment and hate. Those people aren't acting in good faith, and they aren't voices worth listening to.

    • Like 9
  8. 4 minutes ago, (NSW)SantCruz said:

    My issue with the charge feature is that it makes a slow ability slower. It's not that I don't want to use it, I want the charged version (more powerful, larger radius, etc) to just be the only version of the ability and be based off of tap. Not using it is not a solution as I find that version the only one worth using despite the wait. And 1 second for the animation is a big deal in a fast paced game. "A handful of charged casts" is way too much time. Think about how long it takes to charge and then the animation. At that point use your weapons and you deal way more damage at a much faster rate. Granted, the ability is CC not damage, I only mentioned the damage because you wrote about it being good and it definitely is not. Also, a CC ability should not have to be cast more than once to do its job effectively, which is why I do not agree with casting it multiple times to lockdown just ONE spot as opposed to doing multiple casts to properly lockdown multiple spots. Essentially, it is  CC ability that is lacking in CC capabilities since it is slow, cumbersome, and requires more than one cast to be effective in any of it's jobs. It can use many improvements. 

    "Not the same thing as not useful" just means there is a niche time it can be used but otherwise... meh. 

    Look, Hydroid is still my main but I can't honestly say that any of his abilities are good as they are. At best they are mediocre. At worse, they are his 2. I stick with him because I have already invested so much into the frame and I am a sucker for water elementals in all media even when they are lackluster.

    It only takes 1.67 seconds to charge it with Natural Talent, that's really not that long. Warframe isn't so fast paced that a second delay or a 1.67 charge time is a serious issue. Those are quirks, not weaknesses. Obviously my five Forma and fully modded weapons deal more damage than my cheap CC ability, but it deals enough damage that you can seriously injure or even outright kill light enemies like Chargers, Butchers, or Crewman without even really trying to even against end game content. That's pretty potent, especially in comparison to a lot of other frames and their utility powers.

    Honestly, it sounds like you stick with Hydroid because of the sunk cost fallacy and that you want him to be something radically different than what he is, whether that's what he should be or not (and this is true for a lot of people in a lot of rework threads). Like back when Volt got his rework the official feedback thread was flooded with people suggesting 'improvements' to him that involved complete reworks to Shock and Overload/Discharge which had little resemblance to what he already had. I get it can be frustrating to not have something live up to your thematic fantasy, and sometimes those ideas can be helpful, like when a frame has an ability like Mesa's 1 or Trinity's 1 or Excalibur's old 3 which are dead in the water. But Hydroid's not in that bad of a spot. He doesn't need radical changes and totally new powers. It's not necessarily wrong to talk about those ideas, but they're not doing anyone who is a fan of what's already there any favors, and they aren't likely to get implemented. And the one ability they probably could do that for, Tentacle Swarm, they won't because its always been tied to his identity.

    That's kind of why I'm in the thread. It's been sitting on the front page for awhile, and most of it reads, to me, like a collection of people who either do not play Hydroid or who play Hydroid but would much rather be playing something that isn't Hydroid but that still has Hydroid's name and water theme attached.

  9. 1 hour ago, (NSW)SantCruz said:

    I disagree that his 1 doesn't need any changes. It needs shortened cast time for sure. Waiting for the ability to activate 1 second after pressing the button is crazy. I would also remove the charge feature entirely as that adds another layer of slowness to his kit and instead make the tap cast equivalent to his current 1 cast. Also, damage is not in any way good on it especially on higher levels. The augment does improve it for sure but there are better ways to strip armor and use corrosive so I think it's worth adjusting it in some way

    I would argue his 2 is more useless than his 4. I barely ever see a reason to use it except for moving in his 3 or just moving fast in a straight line when I want to get to extraction. I do like your tap and hold thing, seeing as hold would be for movement ability, that would be one case where holding for an ability would be fine while tapping adds an offensive/CC component. Your suggested changes would really make moveme feel better.


    Yes to tidal surge not dropping enemies when in undertow. And I do think it needs to move faster if they would keep it in a theoretical rework (so many people hate his 3 that maybe they would get rid of it). Personally I like his 3 and just think it needs some adjustments though if they replaced it with something different, as long as it worked well I wouldn't mind.


    His 4.... Well I like it more than his 2. It's just too RNG based, flails enemies so you can't even shoot them, gets worse with range mods since you can't control number of tentacles. But I do enjoy using it for it's true damage especially off his undertow for double damage. It, like his 2, needs a lot of work. 

    The cast time on it is one handed and actually pretty brief. The 1 second delay is the cast animation plus the activation delay. It's not something that hurts its function, nor is it unique to Hydroid. Most persistent / deployed CC abilities have a delay. It could be reduced without hurting him, but its presence isn't making him worse. Again, I'm not saying that there aren't things that could change with it, but that there's nothing that actually needs to. The fact that it has a bit of a delay isn't what makes him a lackluster choice for a squad slot.

    I'm not sure what your issue with the charge feature is. If you don't want to use it you don't have to. It's sometimes nice to have an instance last twice as long, and there's plenty of opportunities to charge it when you're recharging shields or healing during Undertow.

    It does 750 to 3000 damage, or 3000 to 12000 damage on a charge, over its duration if you assume they get hit by at least one salvo per second. Miasma does 7200. I'm honestly not sure why you think it doesn't deal damage. Prior to the Corrosive changes I was killing level 120 Bombards with a handful of charged casts and my build only has 100% Strength and 150% Duration. It's nothing to write home about, but it's sure as hell not something to balk at, either.

    Those things occur pretty frequently, though. And it's useful for moving around inside of Undertow, too You can also use it to group enemies into a corner so you can melee them or back up and AoE them. It's also quite useful for separating an Ancient Healer from a group of enemies, or for extending your invulnerability when exiting Undertow when an Ancient Healer or a Nullifier or something is around. Also, if you weren't aware, there's a useful animation cancel you can do with Tidal Surge and Undertow where you'll perform a normal Tidal Surge at half speed. You activate Undertow, then use Tidal Surge, then immediately after that you deactivate Undertow. The timing is pretty tight. Maybe it's not an ability that you use all that much, but that's not the same thing as not useful, you know?

    Thankfully I don't think they'll ever get rid of Undertow. Unfortunately, I don't think they'll rework Tentacle Swarm much, either. They seem to like it too much. I agree there should be room for fun powers like Pulverize or Switch Teleport, but this, IDK. I'm at the point where I just want it to spit out health orbs or give me armor or cause puncture procs or make enemies T-pose or just more than quintuple its damage. I want it to do something tangible other than make it harder to aim.


  10. 4 hours ago, FoxFX said:


    So in your case: you don't want to lose the Undertow + Tempest Barrage combo?

    I want to keep in mind this article was made weeks ago and that was before the recent Mainline Update. I had discussed and asked around a lot of other players through live chat on their current thoughts on Hydroid. I will eventually update the OP in due time.

    I don't really want to lose any of Hydroid's abilities. I just want him to be better. His biggest issue is that he's basically stuck with three abilities because Tentacle Swarm is only really useful for its augment which isn't actually all that useful.

    Tempest Barrage doesn't need anything done to it. It's one of the best 1s in the game, it fits his theme, it does its job. It has a great augment, and it even puts out pretty impressive damage. Its charge feature is actually useful, too. Obviously they should fix the bug it currently has that makes enemies ragdoll and bounce around all over the place.

    Tidal Surge could really use a shift to work more like Mach Rush so that you can actually use it on smaller tilesets without being forced to smash into a wall or get stuck on some invisible pixel of level geometry for a full second. A hold paradigm also makes it less stop and go when you're traveling long distances. I've seen people suggest a tap/hold paradigm where a tap sends out the wave at enemies and a hold has Hydroid become the wave, as he does now, and I wouldn't be opposed to that, either.

    Undertow needs to let you reload in it. You can currently finish a reload if you've started an automatic one after emptying your magazine, but if you initiate a manual reload and then use Undertow it cancels it, which is a frustrating inconsistency. Maybe it could move 15-30% faster, but it honestly doesn't need to. You can just use Tidal Surge for that. In certain spots that can be a little clunky, but if you improve Tidal Surge's cast paradigm you fix that automatically. Tidal Surge also needs to quit dropping enemies from Undertow.

    Tentacle Swarm needs some heavy work. Either a large scale rework and a massive change to how the ability functions or it needs a band-aid solution like making it hold enemies in T-pose like Bastille, because at least then you can score headshots which makes it functionally distinct from his other CC effects.



  11. 1 hour ago, FoxFX said:

    I was trying to make a suggestion to change Hydroid's Tempest Barrage into something else entirely at first...


    From some discussions I had, a LOT of players did not want Tempest Barrage to change due to the Augment [Corrosive Barrage]. Things are now a bit different with the Damage-type changes, and there can be room to settle how the ability works now. But I wanted to try to keep Tempest Barrage to avoid any backlash on the possible removal of the Corrosive Augment.

    It still doesn't make much sense, though. Hydroid's best abilities are Tempest Barrage and Undertow. Corroding Barrage is still good though (sadly) less powerful now. And the ability isn't dependent upon the augment the way some other abilities are. If the goal of revisiting Hydroid is to improve him, why would you significantly change his best abilities? It's like replacing Frost's Snow Globe. Maybe you could make something fun and better capture his ice theme, but it wouldn't be Frost and it wouldn't be fair to the people that enjoy him for what he is.

  12. 11 minutes ago, (NSW)SantCruz said:

    I suppose you are right. As Tempest Barrage currently stands, I still think it is to0 RNG based to truly call it a lock down  or true CC ability, but I do think your proposed changes can help with that

    It's actually rather reliable with just Stretch. Either way, you can just cast it again if you're that worried about it. It's cheap.

    Also, I'm not the OP. But as for his suggestions for Tempest Barrage...they don't make any sense.

    The ability isn't really used for damage, so its damage type doesn't matter much. I guess it could be changed--it wouldn't really hurt anything--but it's not going to substantially help anything either.

    Changing it to a singular instance would immediately ruin the fun of making it rain explosions everywhere, it'd make the area coverage vastly worse, lower your DPS potential because you can't stack them, and do nothing for its reliability.

    Increasing its accuracy by making it home in on enemies would probably make the ability less reliable, believe it or not (especially if you slow the salvo rate). Why? Because when a salvo lands near the edge of the 10m targeting radius you can hit enemies up to 5m outside of it because it has its own AoE. If it's fixated on an enemy on the center it's not going to ever hit the edge. Say you create two instances of it and they share a central region? Well, if that area has enemies in it you're going to waste all the salvo explosions for two different instances on a single spot. Got a bunch of enemies on one side of the AoE and only one or two on the other? You're going to make it a lot easier for them to get up as it focuses down the more densely populated region.

  13. 5 minutes ago, (NSW)SantCruz said:

    If he can move faster as per the change OP wants, he would be better in spy. As it stands, yes puddle can be used for stealth and spy but very slowly and just not as efficienctly as frames that were actually made with stealth in mind. 

    For my take, I'm still of the mind that the best option is to make puddles deployable without him being in it but he has the option to go into it which would effectively make it act like it does now while he is inside it. When he is not, it's good non-RNG based crowd control with damage potential (plus shooting into your own puddle). Especially if he can have more than 1 puddle active. Maybe even teleport between puddles?

    The ability to deploy Undertow as a trap is something that's been suggested ad nauseum over the years and it hasn't ever been a good suggestion. Shooting at Undertow isn't fun. You can't score headshots, it doesn't move, it doesn't fight, it doesn't have damage animations. The reason Hydroid's team can shoot at Undertow is to prevent him from griefing in Defense missions. At best implementing that would just recreate the old Bastille / Vortex problem. We already have Tempest Barrage to lock down an area. Why do we need another redundant ability, especially when he already has that problem currently with 1 and 4?

  14. 47 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

    Did the suggestions I have presented on Tentacle Swarm seem like something you would welcome?

    The only appealing things in the OP are the passive ideas, sorry. Everything else in the OP is very off the mark for improving him. I say that as sincere and constructive criticism, I'm not trying to be harsh or hostile here.

    Tentacle Swarm is currently awful because it's redundant with and inferior to Tempest Barrage. Your suggestions don't make it less redundant, or stronger, or more fun.

  15. 4 minutes ago, SirLethal said:

    In today's hotfix 26.0.7 this change as made (Removed Combo Hit Multiplier with Glaive's hit damage. Only explosive damage will use the Combo Multiplier.). This is a step backwards as this previously lackluster weapon type felt new and refreshing as throwing your thrown weapon actually felt rewarding once you raised your combo multiplier. without this functionality the weapon might as well just be another regular weapon because the throwing function has once again become useless as it does literally no damage. I went from being able to kill a 125 corrupted heavy gunner with 2-3 throws to it taking over 10 throws sometimes close to 15 at the same multiplier. Now i understand that only heavy attacks were intended to benefit from the combo multiplier but maybe some exception or middle ground can be made/met like a buff to the throwing portion of the weapons damage because this was a big disappointment to log into as i was actively using my glaive prime and wolf sledge and now while the melee damage is still good ive lost all incentive to use either of these weapons over others was I as taking advantage of the thrown aspect.

    Pretty much this.


    If it's intended to prevent you from using melee's incredible scaling damage to decimate high level enemies at long range I guess that'd make some sense, but Bullet Dance exists so that's moot.

  16. Electrokinetic Battery:

    Not much to say, it does what it says, and what it does is good. One of the best passives in the game, even. It synergizes with both his theme and his kit.


    Gauss does not generate battery from moving vertically. This punishes Gauss for parkour.


    Gauss should generate battery when jumping/bullet jumping/parkouring.



    Mach Rush:

    Mach Rush has three main uses: Moving quickly, disabling enemies, and charging his battery. It's fun and reasonably effective at those three things. I especially enjoy that you can use the ability during Redline's cast animation as well as whilst you are reloading.

    Its base damage is high relative to many powers, but isn't useful for that. It also has synergy with Kinetic Plating, which isn't very impactful, and synergy with Redline, which is great.


    The AoE around Gauss as he travels does not seem to be affected by line of sight, but the shockwave AoE created when he slams into a wall does seem to be affected.

    Mach Rush's minimum distance makes it difficult to use in some tilesets and mission types. 

    Mach Rush's casting controls are odd, in particular, the way that if you press and hold 1, then press and hold W, then let go of 1, you can use WASD to maintain and steer the power.

    Mach Rush's synergy with Kinetic Plating is lacking--its only function is being marginally useful for Condition Overload.


    The shockwave AoE created when he slams into a wall should not be affected by line of sight. Typically LoS restrictions exist to prevent a frame from sitting in a corner and effortlessly killing enemies, but this is out of place on an ability with a small range that you can't use in the first place unless you throw yourself into a corner.

    Mach Rush should have a much smaller minimum distance so that you can use it to build battery in small maps or during missions like Excavation without abandoning the objective.

    Mach Rush should continue only upon holding down 1. The ability to steer during Mach Rush is nice on paper, but Gauss' turning radius is reduced so dramatically that you are better off letting go of 1 and recasting Mach Rush than using that feature (it's also far harder to use on controller).

    Either Mach Rush should deal more damage (ideally some amount of % health damage) to make Kinetic Plating's synergy relevant, or the Kinetic Plating proc should be changed to a Puncture proc, or that combo should reduce enemy armor, or have some other utility effect.



    Kinetic Plating:

    It's great thematically, and the visual effects are gorgeous, but it's also one of the biggest issues in his kit.


    Whilst active Gauss is immune to being knocked down and a handful of other things, but can still be affected by Slash procs, etc.

    Kinetic Plating drains Gauss' battery whenever he is damaged. How much a hit drains his battery is based upon how much damage it deals. Unfortunately, that means that enemies at or above even the lowest sortie levels can drain his entire battery very quickly as they hit very hard and very fast. I cannot begin to overstate how much of an issue this is. I'm fine with having to turn the ability on or off to manage Gauss' battery. But to make an informed decision like that I'd have to be informed. And I can't really do that if I can't gauge what the battery drain will be. And presently, you can't really do that because no one can keep track of every enemy that might damage you.

    It's not clear from the description how Kinetic Plating's energy restoration works.

    Kinetic Plating has a duration, can be deactivated prematurely, and there's a good reason to deactivate it early. It should thus be a toggled ability.


    Gauss should be immune to all status effects similar to Iron Skin whilst Kinetic Plating is active. I suppose the current implementation makes sense--he reduces the damage he takes, but does indeed still take it--but it also feels awful to watch your health get chipped away to nothing when you've had Kinetic Plating active and your battery at or near 100% for the entire mission and haven't had your shields go down even once.

    Remove Kinetic Plating's battery drain upon taking damage. Increase the passive battery drain each second, if needed. This makes it consistent and predictable so that we can decide when we need it versus when we should deactivate it.

    Specify the way the energy restoration works in the description so that we do not have to test it in the Simulacrum to find out whether it is or isn't affected by things like Adaptation, Gauss' battery level, etc. (For those wondering, you restore the same amount of energy at 0% battery as you do at 80% battery, independent of your power strength and things like Adaptation.)

    Change Kinetic Plating to a toggled ability with a flat energy activation cost and no energy cost over time.



    Thermal Sunder:

    This ability has three different functions. Cold Sunder is great. Blast Sunder is underwhelming. Heat Sunder is a false choice.


    This ability creates far too much visual clutter.

    The persistent damage fields have relatively little purpose.

    The damage does not scale well.

    Cold Sunder does not generate enough battery. It has a longer animation than Mach Rush, it costs three times as much as Mach Rush, and generates less battery than Mach Rush. This is very punishing when you are in a situation where you need battery but do not want to or cannot move.

    You should never cast Heat Sunder because all of Gauss' other abilities want him to have full battery.

    Blast Sunder's armor reduction is negligible. As far as I can tell it only works if you're over the redline and also only reaches the full 50% reduction at 100% battery. It would be mediocre even if it always reduced armor by 50%.


    Reduce the visual spam.

    Remove the persistent damage fields or make them have a chance to apply their respective status.

    Increase the battery generated by Cold Sunder to 20%.

    Move the armor reduction from Blast Sunder whilst redlining to Heat Sunder's second cast whilst below the redline or first cast if you are above the redline and make it scale with your total battery level.

    Change the damage on Blast Sunder to % health damage, doubled whilst above the redline.

    (In other words, Cold + Cold = Freeze, Heat + Heat = Armor Reduction, Blast = % Damage. Whilst above the redline, Cold = Freeze, Heat = Armor Reduction, Blast = 2 * % Damage.)




    One of the most fun abilities in the game. I love it.


    I can deactivate the ability early, but have no reason to do so. If done before 100% Redline, I lose a significant amount of battery. If done afterwards, I waste precious time I could have spent in 100% Redline.

    Mach Rush's energy cost reduction, Kinetic Plating's melee damage bonus, and Blast Sunder's armor reduction synergies only function whilst past the redline.

    100% Redline is not explained at all and very confusing at first.


    Make it so that I cannot deactivate Redline early. Either I should not be able to press the key again, or doing so should recast it and refresh the duration of the ability.

    Synergies should function whilst Redline is active even if not above the redline, albeit at reduced effectiveness. For example, at 80% battery, Kinetic Plating should provide 50% melee damage, whilst at 100% battery it would provide the full 100%.

    100% Redline should, in all honesty, be something you are trying to avoid rather than a benefit. That would give us an actual reason to cast Heat Sunder. With that said, though, it'd be fine as is if it were more clear as to what it is and does.

  17. Fact of the matter is, Volt has four distinct and useful abilities. Does Volt deserve and need some changes to them? Yes. Does Volt need a full scale rework? No. Does Volt deserve to have those changes any time soon? No.

    There are frames like Hydroid who still have redundant abilities. There are frames like Titania who are just a confusing mess. There are frames like Ember who barely scale, and frames like Vauban who pretty much have one ability. Those need to take priority.

  18. 11 minutes ago, SteveCutler said:

    As someone who does own Gauss and has been playing him non-stop since he was released, I feel like (XB1)Knight Raime understands Gauss far better than most other people in this thread. You don't necessarily have to actively use something yourself to understand it - you can gain an understanding by reading the wiki, reading explanations, watching videos of it in action, seeing how different builds perform in the hands of different players, etc.

    There is far too much misinformation and misunderstanding in this thread. So many people are complaining about things that aren't even true (e.g. thinking Redline needs to hit 100% for full buffs), complaining about things that are easily disproven (e.g. saying running isn't enough to outweigh battery drain when it clearly is), quoting incorrect numbers (e.g. saying you get 80% damage reduction at 80% battery, when in fact you get 84%), etc.

    I acknowledged that there's a substantial degree of misinformation in this thread in my first reply to him. I don't appreciate him contributing to that by denying that Gauss' battery drain from being damaged with Kinetic Plating active is excessive against Sortie level enemies because he's watched a few videos.

    6 minutes ago, vFlitz said:


    You can clearly see that the battery is in fact dropping when sprinting, and that's with Rush, Amalgam Serration and Armored Agility. You like shotguns? Gonna be worse. Don't want to waste a mod slot on Armored Agility, which doesn't really do much for him besides this? Also gonna be worse. You get shot at? Much worse. Also towards the end shows how much more quickly the battery drops if you shoot, which, you know, is a common thing to do in this game.

    But if you are going to rely strictly upon video evidence, here's a good one. Notice how he loses about 10% of his battery when he stops to empty a clip? That's 10% battery loss for about half a second. And he's not being damaged-- which can drain the entire battery in as much time, depending upon what it is that's attacking you.  And he's constantly moving. There are situations where you stop moving, like when you're activating life support, or you have a small area to move in, such as in Hijack or Excavation missions, which makes it worse.

    6 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

    But you need it to stop the drain, so you can actually focus on what you want to do instead of babysitting the battery. The buffs, admittedly, are pretty lenient because they're decent even when his battery falls some. But all of Redline's synergies are active only if the battery is above the limiter. So Mach Rush having halved cost, Kinetic Plating increasing melee damage and all of the additional effects on Thermal Sunder. The blast one even scales with battery level, so it's 0% strip if you're exactly at the limiter, then up to 50% if you're at full battery (and for the record, non-scaling 50% armor strip when you need two casts of a medium-high cost, low base range ability to get it would be pretty bad even if it was available at all times)

    And then there's stuff like that.

    • Like 4
  19. 20 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

    People can make the complaint about it's energy drain to me all the like.  It means nothing without visual proof.  As at this point I have at least 12 hours of watching various people use said frame and...

    I like how the guy who doesn't own Gauss, hasn't played Gauss, and is playing on a platform where Gauss isn't even released feels qualified to dismiss legitimate criticisms because he's idly watched someone play Gauss for less than half the time that some of us here have actually used Gauss.

    • Like 1
  20. 1 hour ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

    As I elaborated in an earlier response kinetic plating drains based on how frequent you're being hit.  If you're dashing around with mach rush a lot causing cc and using your 3 to cc you are drastically reducing the amount of shots you're taking.  And because both abilities actively give you battery back you are counteracting the drain on both fronts.  Enemies are hard programmed to only have a maximum of 3 enemies attacking you at once.  The illusion of this is built by having pretty much every enemy in the game fire in single shots or bursts.  And they will miss to further make the illusion of all enemies attacking you seem more believable.

    This is easily shown by going into the simulacrum and making a bunch of heavy gunners or a bunch of corpus tech's attack you.  These are the only enemies in the game that fire over a sustained period of time which is why it's a good showcase.  The only unit that breaks this pattern are melee enemies.

    Kinetic Plating drains Gauss' battery each time he receives an instance of damage. How much battery is drained by that instance of damage is based upon the damage that said instance deals. There seems to be a minimum and a maximum amount of battery that can be drained per instance. Point being, a level 130 Heavy Gunner will drain Kinetic Plating far faster than a level 1 Heavy Gunner.

    I am well aware of how Warframe AI works. The fact that enemies have targeting limitations and that they aren't perfectly accurate does not change the fact that the few enemies that do manage to hit you can drain your entire battery almost instantly.

  21. 50 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

    It's the only explanation I can think of considering the amount of footage I've watched with him and not one person struggles with energy or battery up keep. 

    A lot of the complaints within this thread are made by people who don't understanding the way Gauss works, so I tend to agree. But they're not all wrong, either.

    Kinetic Plating drains a variable amount of battery when you get hit. You can have your entire battery drained by a single high level Heavy Gunner in just a few seconds. If you're in a room filled with enemies, you can go from 100-0 in the blink of an eye.

    There's no way to sustain that, and it has nothing to do with playing or building him wrong.


    • Like 3
  22. 1 hour ago, iSkylines said:

    But see thats what i am getting at. Every mesa player only really uses her 2nd, 3rd, and her 4th ability. I just think there should be some kind of syngery between her abilities. Atleast linking her 1st to her 4th. 

    And her 2 and her 3 have the bare minimum of gameplay attached to them. You cast them immediately after they expire, lather, rinse, repeat.

  23. 19 hours ago, vector77 said:

    Because they buffed a lot of weapons and nerfed one or two in a single patch and called it a day. They only reworked beam weapons, changed akjagara and maybe something else, I don't remember. The problem here is that DE is not some genius developer that can achieve good balance in one patch, they should've continued to try to balance the weapons better. Instead we still have the untouched stug, scourge with only 100 spare ammo and some other funny things. So, while I enjoyed the buffing, I also realise that almost all these weapons will probably remain in this state for years, while they'll continue to release even more and more powerful weapons. Warframe is a game that doesn't need perfect weapon balance and it is probably impossible to do that with 300+ weapons, but I certainly would prefer if they put more effort in it instead of more game modes and open areas.

    They normalized the damage, critical chance, and status chance of the vast majority of guns to fit neatly into tiers based upon the Mastery Rank that is required to wield them. That means that they had to sit down and crunch numbers and decide what they wanted their benchmarks to be, and then they had to apply that standard to every gun in the game. That alone is an absurd amount of work.

    As if that wasn't enough, they also had to decide how to handle the numerous weapons which were end game viable despite being accessible to low Mastery Rank players, like the Atterax, and the trash tier weapons which had baffling Mastery Rank requirements like the Embolist.

    They also had to worry about tons of potential oversights and things that are extremely hard to evaluate with a spreadsheet and simple number tweaking such as shotgun status or explosive weapons tendency to score free headshots.

    There's also a number of bugs that they fixed like the Miter's charged shot having an extremely narrow hitbox compared to its uncharged shot.

    And that's not even getting into making sure that they didn't accidentally type a 100 when they meant to put a 10...for multiple stat values on dozens of weapons.

    It wasn't a perfect balance update and there were some weapons, such as the Stug, that were unfortunately forgotten. But you also don't need to undersell the immense amount of work they did or treat it like it was a shoddy update. It's one of the best things that DE has ever done.

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