YagoXiten
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Posts posted by YagoXiten
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1 hour ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:
I haven't done any testing specifically on how the damage ramps up with the projectiles in it, but it seems the aim was to have that damage dealt to many enemies at moderately high damage then explode at very high damage (since the explosion damage is based on a portion of how many damage ticks it dealt to enemies before it detonates). The problem is that it doesn't hold groups of enemies very well so it never deals as many ticks as projected.
I think if it held enemies better, because of how it calculates the explosion damage, the total area damage it dealt would be far greater than we usually get out of it. It would also make it far easier to make use of the Polarize shards from groups of enemies with armor that gets shredded, increasing the damage.
Every second 25% of the absorbed damage is dealt to all enemies inside the sphere. At the end of its duration, if the primary target is killed (or if it is manually detonated with the Magnetized Discharge augment), it will explode dealing [(300 * Power Strength) + the sum of all premitigation damage dealt by the damage over time] as Blast damage.
Two major problems:1. The way it absorbs damage is esoteric and confusing.
- Your damage type does not matter. Whether you're shooting a Bombard or a Corpus Tech, a single round from a Braton Prime with Stormbringer and Hellfire will add as much damage as a single round from a Braton Prime with Cryo Rounds and Stormbringer.
- The number of targets you hit does not matter. A Lanka shot that hits five targets will add the same amount to Magnetize as a Lanka shot that only hits one enemy.
- Your critical chance and critical multiplier do not matter. White hits, yellow crits, orange crits, and red crits all add the same amount to what Magnetize absorbs.
- Your status chance does not matter. Slash procs and Toxin procs do not contribute to Magnetize. Corrosive procs will increase the damage a target takes from Magnetize's damage over time and Magnetize's detonation, but this does not affect the damage dealt by Magnetize itself. In other words, you can see a bunch of ticks for 40 damage and still deal hundreds of thousands of damage with the explosion to anyone who isn't armored.
- If your weapon is hitscan then your multishot does not matter--including the innate multishot of shotguns like the Tigris Prime--only a single pellet will be counted. (If your weapon is a projectile weapon, such as the Supra Vandal, then your multishot is taken into consideration as normal.)
- Magnetize ignores all damage dealt by secondary effects--including the damage dealt by explosions and persistent damage fields. Your Secura Penta? Yeah, that 75 Impact damage is the only thing that Magnetize looks at. Hilariously enough, this means that the Castanas actually contribute literally nothing to Magnetize.
2. The detonation damage only really scales if you let enemies take damage from the damage over time.
This creates a weird paradox where if you want Magnetize's explosion to kill things you have to...not kill things inside of the field.
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18 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:
The only change Magnetize needs would probably be to improve (fix?) the drag it has on nearby enemies.
They could also
changefix the damage scaling so that it makes any kind of sense. -
6 hours ago, TyrianMollusk said:
Probably just misstating the 16m-wide area.
Charged shots continuously cost ammo while charging or being held, so I wouldn't call them efficiency oriented.
I've used the Staticor a lot. It's one of my favorite weapons. The AoE of fully charged shots used to be higher before this update. I even went and checked an old video by AGGP where he confirms this.
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On 2018-11-18 at 2:48 PM, LSG501 said:
LOL... tentacle swarm is useless...I respectfully disagree with that, my cc build which works happily enough in conjunction with corroding barrage and imo my pilfering swarm build is better than nekros when based in one location (although it's always better to have one of each obviously).
It isn't unusable. It's just not good. It wouldn't be good even if it weren't redundant, but, you know, it is what it is.
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4 hours ago, wolf96781 said:
Nope! I used it before the change and it sucked so hard that it pulled Lua through a straw. Now it's actually decent enough to use
Before it was changed the uncharged shots had a 2m radius whilst a fully charged shot had a radius of about 16m. The design of the weapon was such that you had to choose between the precision and higher damage per second of uncharged shots or the massive area of effect and burst damage of the charged shots. Uncharged shots were far less ammo efficient but easier to aim, whilst the charged shots were unwieldy but great for conserving ammo.
Now there's literally zero advantage to charged shots. The projectile travels slowly, the damage is far less substantial than just spamming uncharged shots, and it isn't even more ammo efficient now that the AoE is the same size.
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20 hours ago, wolf96781 said:
So you want them to make your favorite weapon in the game objectively worse?
No, not really, it was quite a poor secondary weapon, that's why no one used it until the buff
So you want them to Nerf it? I thought nerfs were bad.
Why not, instead of nerfing the weapon, they re-balance it? Or is that not what they already did when they boosted its AoE and literally nothing else?
Those of you arguing against a revert clearly didn't use the weapon before. The recent change was a nerf. The weapon feels awful to use now.
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32 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:
Absolutely nothing, she doesn’t need any changes to her kit at all, she’s fine as she is right now.
1: Waste Energy on overkill button
2: Mostly redundant button
3: Passively never die button
4: Peacemaker
She pretty much only has one ability. I wonder why people think she needs some work. -
On 2018-11-16 at 3:44 PM, -Bv-Concarne said:
It's not chaotic at all anyways since it's just some non threatening looking tentacles slapping around slowly and even slower when it catches enemies. This feels like one of those abilities where either form or functionality would need to be sacrificed unless it's completely overhauled in both respects.
DE seems to care a lot about form, but I think most players care more about function. I understand the appeal of making an ability chaotic and whimsical, but once the novelty wears off you're left with a button you never press. I just want it to be useful AND unique.
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22 hours ago, Thanzilla said:
Let's imagine a mod called Heat penetration: Your heat damage penetrates 50%* enemy elemental resistance and armour.
*Random value
Wouldn't that be useful?
Useful? Yes. Interesting or well designed? No.The point is that you're supposed to use certain damage types against certain enemies.Such a mod would undermine that system. It wouldn't even diversify modding.
22 hours ago, Thanzilla said:Also about the bug i mentioned. Is this supposed to work like this? This time it was on eximus units but other time it was on normal terra something normal units and happens very frequently. My glaxion is fully modded, has riven and is built for magnetic + gas but they just take 0 dmg. Was happening when i was leveling it up with pure cold as well.
I know nothing about this.
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19 hours ago, peterc3 said:
Sentinels, MOAs, Pets, etc. are not there to be a full powered second player.
They're extra damage, CC, or utility, guns included. They are not going to let you put a regular weapon on something not under your exclusive control without a cost. You have to build Specters or use a specific frame where you are also running around as a character without a full powered weapon yourself.
This.
That said, I think companion damage (and survivability) could be buffed from what it currently is.
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On 2018-11-13 at 3:01 PM, ADirtyMonk said:
TLDR: projectile weapons are very awkward to use in open world and require a very significant lead past ~30m in front of you. Non-AOE semi Auto projectile weapons like the new kitguns, bows, euphona prime are the worst offenders. AOE projectile weapons like the Arca Plasmor is perhaps the only exception.
I've found that even at moderate range of 40-50m I have to lead enemies by 0.5-1inch (screen is 23.5inch long). Very frustrating and awkward to use in open world while the weapons themselves do not give a significant damage advantage over hitscan weapons. I've been watching a lot of Black Ops 4 Battle Royale on twitch and it seems that at most you have to lead by ~0.5 inches even at what appears to be the equivalent of ~100m in warframe which is a lot more reasonable.
Could this be an issue of "git gud"? Maybe. But the availability of weapons where I can click heads and kill faster and more efficiently makes it not worth it to learn the large drop/lead distance on erratic often spastic AI (a decent amount of which are now also getting long distance non-telegraphed jump/dash abilities).
I get that it might be frustrating for some people, but I really don't need or want the projectile speed to be increased. I use almost exclusively projectile weapons. I simply find them more satisfying than hitscan, and that's largely because they're far more difficult to use. It sounds like maybe they just aren't for you?
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12 hours ago, Thanzilla said:
It should penetrate resistance granted by armor as well as sortie elemental resistance. Would make game better imo since more build options are always good.
Also there is a bug with the glaxion and Arca plasmor that makes it deal 0 dmg if you build them for their innate elements exclusively. Will try and get it on video if I come across it again.
Whilst there probably should be some way to deal with Elemental Resistance in Sorties, such a mod would only be useful in that specific circumstance. If you weren't aware, Radiation already ignores 75% of Alloy armor and Corrosive ignores 75% of Ferrite armor--in addition to their respective 1.75x damage multipliers against those health types.
EDIT: Puncture also ignores 50% of Ferrite armor and 15% of Alloy armor in addition to its 1.5x and 1.15x damage multiplier against Ferrite/Alloy health types respectively. -
On 2018-11-13 at 5:37 AM, Thaylien said:
Nice opinion, but you'll find a lot of people actually have the opposite, or more biased towards favourable.
Tentacle Swarm is for Area Denial, not for killing things out-right. It gets used to lock down Defense objectives and hallways or prevent enemies reaching Interception points.
If you want to actually kill enemies, then you're far better off yanking them all into a puddle and hitting 1 on it.
I have played a lot of Hydroid, and even if I hadn't, it's blatantly obvious what its intended use is.
The problem is that it does the same thing as Tempest Barrage, only worse. It becomes less reliable with range and its only niche over Tempest Barrage is that it goes through an Ancient Healer's aura. Sadly, the flailing makes it harder to aim at priority targets, and its habit of hoarding corpses is visually confusing. In other words, its only function is being a worse version of Tempest Barrage when Tempest Barrage itself literally can't be used. Some 'ultimate', eh?
It can and should be better.
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It's the best it's ever been. It's still not good.
It doesn't deal relevant damage. It's CC still does more to hinder than help. I love Hydroid, but the vast majority of the time I cast Tentacle Swarm because it looks cool and I have Energy to burn, not because it actually does anything.
Instead of flailing around and slamming enemies to the ground, why can't the tentacles just coil around a target and hold them in place? Maybe even open them up to finishers? Or at the very least can it actually kill things?
Please give it an actual purpose. -
7 hours ago, SangoV99 said:
Submerged enemies didnt receive damage from Tempest Barrage
that mean
Corroding Barrage is useless on submerged enemies.
tested on Simulacrum
Can confirm. Extremely upsetting as a Hydroid main.
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12 minutes ago, (PS4)Radehx said:
But that goes for a lot of frames where some weapons are more optimal than others. If you play Ivara at high levels, you CAN go with a dual sword...or you can be sensible and use a CL dagger. Mag works just fine with most levels, some are simply more effective than others.
You don't have to use a Lanka, there are a ton of weapons just as effective...hell, even more on certain maps. Mara Detron, Supra Vandal, Drakoon, Zarr etc all work just fine.
Does she have effective CC keeping her safe at high levels? Definitely yes.
Does she have amazing damage to slaughter high-level content? Definitely yes.
Does she have a tank keeping her safe at high levels? No, at least not until shield gating. Her tank is mediocre, but that's balanced imo given how effective her CC and damage output are.
Imo she's pretty well balanced.
There's a difference between having weapons that are better on certain frames than others and having frames be reliant on those weapons. Her damage is actually pretty awful without abusing projectile punchthrough weapons. Those weapons charge Magnetize exponentially faster and do somewhere around > 10x more damage than other weapons. Without using those the main way to charge Magnetize is to force enemies to be tickled by its DoT, as that adds to the detonation quite considerably. Sadly, that still ends up reduced by armor and is drastically slower than simply killing them with a weapon.
She does not have effective CC without an augment. Even with the augment, many other frames have far more effective CC. And, quite frankly, no frame should be totally reliant upon CC to avoid damage, especially when Nullifiers, Ancient Disruptors, and Comba/Scrambus exist. -
14 hours ago, (PS4)Radehx said:
Mag can dish out insane damage with the right setup, has effective overshields. She's totally viable for high-level stuff.
I'm not against buffs, but if you think she's ineffective at high level stuff, you are playing her wrong.
Overshields are pretty mediocre.
She's ineffective at higher levels without equipping specific weapons. Wanting to use something other than a Lanka doesn't mean I'm playing her wrong. -
22 minutes ago, sixmille said:
Mag is extremely durable. It's probably among the most durable warframes! You can get as much overshield as you'd like, as long as you're not constantly taking 2k hits standing still you'll be fine. I've never ever ran into energy issues with Mag either. Maybe my build is exceptional, or maybe fleeting expertise is doing its job.
Magnetize doesn't need to scale, that would set a bad precedent. Mag's effective dps is scaling though, with enemy armor and shields. That's the trick. You can completely remove any armor from any high level grineer, and this is huge. The only thing I kind of agree with is that magnetize is a bit messy and it should be less penalizing to use on groups, but that's about it.
There are 35 Warframes. 20 of them are objectively more durable than Mag: Atlas, Chroma, Equinox, Frost, Gara, Harrow, Hydroid, Inaros, Khora, Mesa, Nekros, Nezha, Nidus, Oberon, Rhino, Saryn, Trinity, Valkyr, Wukong, and Zephyr. Of those who are not obviously above Mag: Ash, Ivara, Loki, and Octavia have reliable invisibility. Limbo has the Rift. This leaves Banshee, Ember, Excalibur, Mirage, Nova, Nyx, Titania, Vauban, and Volt. Whilst there is some room for debate I would place Mag above only Banshee, Ember, Mirage, Titania, and Vauban. Regardless of her exact position, she is somewhere in the bottom third.
A level 100 Heavy Gunner has 7332 armor. Mag with 100% Ability Strength requires 19 casts of Polarize to remove their armor. If Mag also has Corrosive Projection, she will have to cast Polarize 13 times to remove their armor. If Mag also has Fracturing Crush, she will have to cast Crush 4 times and Polarize once to completely remove their armor. Mag with 200% Ability Strength requires 10 casts of Polarize to remove their armor. If Mag also has Corrosive Projection, she will have to cast Polarize 7 times to remove their armor. If Mag also has Fracturing Crush, she will have to cast Crush once and Polarize 2 times to remove their armor.
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2 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:
i use max range and efficiency on my mag build.. the bubbles get up to DOTs of 5k with just a second of firing Mara Detron or Lanka or Supra Vandal, then explodes for 100k+ in a huge area when it eventually expires.. the bubble is big enough you can stand in it to immunize yourself to damage, the energy costs overall are low enough you can use crush to stun enemies that are hitting you long enough to cast Magnatize while also giving you tons of over shields. I can use this in extremely high content because i can almost totally remove any ability of enemies to hit me, so i dont even bother with defense mods. i often sit in the bubble and spam pull after all the mobs inside it initally are dead.
this is one of 3 builds i have.
i also have a Anti boss build that is more duration and Power Str, again focusing on Magnatize. the Damage bonus is huge and i can one shot the Raptor in Sorites. this one has Redirection and Vitality.
the last build is a higher power, Medium range (no overextended) build that focuses on Using crush and Polarize as a Nuke Combo... basically this is a Hydron Spam style build.
i have noticed that you dont really need much duration to make her effective... in fact faster Magnatize bubbles allow for quick creation of Bubble nuking. ideally you want around 90% or so because Polarize is then at least as big as Crush and Magnatize lasts long enough to really killing anything in its borders. building for max duration on her is utterly pointless.
People think she has only recently gotten good, but even before her last update i was loving my newly obtained Mag Prime and had been loving my non Potatoed Hydron build with normal Mag...
In short... she is one of the LEAST in need of any kind of rework... in fact she is kind of OP when used right.
ok look my point is not that i wouldnt love some more buffs to mag, honestly i have my own ideas.. but i think she is one of the most awesome frames in this game when played right and would rather see that attention focused on Wukong or Vauban, or another frame that cannot at all get to that point... Even Atlas has a really good build that can be used to fly around nuking the map while invulnerable, healing and buffing his armor in the process..
1 hour ago, Anthraxicus said:My only problem with Mag is how the limited range of weapons that work with Magnetize aren't actually working as intended. Weapons that should be shredding enemies to pieces are hitting only once and the rest of the potential damage is completely wasted.
Magnetize is currently an incredibly complicated ability. Because whilst the absorption works, more or less, like I edited into the OP, it also builds adds damage to the explosion based upon how long enemies sit in it and how many enemies do so. This is part of the reason that the high range and high duration build is so popular, and why people are telling me that she scales fine. Yes, she's reaching millions of damage because you either A. Use a meta weapon which charges it to absurd numbers very quickly or B. Gather a dozen enemies and have them sit in the bubble for days which charges it to absurd numbers. It's not that I'm not aware of this. It's that I'd like some consistency and reward for using other weapons and for moving through missions at a faster pace.It's counter-intuitive that she forces you to sit and baby sit each Magnetize bubble when Warframe is such a fast paced game. From the ability's description, etc., it seems like it should work similar to Nyx's Absorb or Equinox's Maim. Do a bunch of damage to a few enemies really quick, then blow it up to kill everything else and move on. But that is not what it does. Instead, it reaches astronomically high values if you sit there...not killing things? There's nothing wrong with that, if that's what you want to do. I don't seek to change that. It's fun sometimes. But I think there's a lot to be gained from having the ability charge without being forced to not kill enemies or use a meta weapon. There are plenty of Warframes that can gather, debuff, and nuke enemies easier and with less prep time. She's forced to be a one trick pony reliant upon specific weapons.
I'm also all to aware of the fact that Mag's Magnetize has changed its physics and damage calculations under the hood at least a handful of times now. I'd really like her to be tweaked so that her damage can remain consistent and predictable from here on out instead of this mess which is prone to breaking something every other patch.
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3 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:
Saying trim isn't supposed to be a dps frame is like saying nova shouldn't be a tank frame or rhino shouldn't be used for stealth or that Octavia shouldn't fill every role. It is nonsensical arbitrary b.s.. The developers taking away a viable technique in whole represents a clear message from de: never experiment or invest because as soon as you succeed we will take it away and male or worthless, only play exactly as we want you to play, so shut up, give is your money and gtfo. That's the problem I have with this. It's not about the loss of investment, all investments are risky, but to have the entire thing kaboshed entirely especially when there are lots of solutions on the table that aren't that, it sends a clear message of f the vets who take time to experiment and be creative. It's a problematic cancer and it's not limited to trinity, the same thing was done to Loki and others. DE simply does not care, they are thoughtless, careless, and don't give a crap about players who invest heavily in their game and that's a very clear message being sent. That's the problem. I personally expected a nerf, and suggested several viable solutions, all of which were subsequently ignored in favor of screwing everyone that bothered to play with this very interestingly modded build. For that I believe DE expects and rightly deserves all the salt they get for it.
I don't know. I've never had DE take away any of the builds or fun things I've found to do. Probably because they aren't reproducible with a macro and don't trivialize content that DE clearly intended to be a challenge.
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On 2018-06-06 at 2:45 PM, NezuHimeSama said:
Bullets being able to proc isn't exactly a suitable solution to enemies not receiving any meaningful damage. The issue is that the edge of the damagesphere provides protection and deals minimal damage. The obvious solution is to reduce the protection area to alleviate this, ensuring that any protected enemies are receiving substantial enough damage from the ability it's self. Alternatively, it could just be a large bubble that mirrors any damage that contacts it to enemies in the sphere without altering projectile paths, but I think DE doesn't want to throw away all the work they put into the eyecandy of the ability.
You can always recast the ability after it detonates, but since that would be the augment, you could just continue to use the ability as normal. The explosion area is actually larger than the bubble area atm, and if we're only talking about enemies not being present in the core(protected area) then it still deals with the surrounding enemies just fine. Want it to also kill another group? Well, it's a 50base energy ability with a base casting speed of around a second. Cast another, pump it full of damage, and watch it burst like a firecracker.
You mentioned a 15m radius. Mag's pull currently has a range of 25m base. At rank 0, it has a range of 15m base. Having that kind of range is important, since the largest threats are enemies far away from mag. Having it pull to where you point is fine(I also liked someone's previously suggested idea of having a stronger fling by holding the button down for a half second charge) but the 15m range and 5m pull just isn't really helping mag. This ability needs to stop movement of enemies within a large area in front of mag because she squish.
Magnetic is actually better than people give it credit for. It's one of the worst procs in the game when used against enemies to be sure, but it's not completely useless, and just 100% eliminating corpus shields makes an entire sortie condition completely irrelevant, something Shield Polarize previously did, and it was nerfed into the ground because of it. A: It's OP AF, even if it's only OP AF against a single (most of a) faction, B: I don't think DE wants to make enemy shields even more irrelevant, and C, toxin shouldn't be bypassing shields. It's a nifty but ultimately imbalanced mechanic that, while I love it and abuse the S#&$ out of it, should be removed/replaced/reworked.
Trinity and Harrow are not Mag, Zenurik and energy restores don't bypass channeling gimpery or synergize with Arcane Energize, and 75% energy base is only 18.75 energy on an efficiency build. There's no good reason to make Mag spawn energy orbs for the party so easily. If anything, enemies killed by Crush should have a additional 1/10(or less) chance to drop an energy orb, to be more in line with Broberon's smite, but even that would probably be abused AF and get nerfed in a day.
Stripping all armour in one go would make armour stripping builds irrelevant, and if it doesn't, suddenly stagger is S#&$e. Never mind mixed factions. Keep it on the augment where it belongs. I believe the shortest stagger is about a second long, actually. And, % of base armour has problems with inconsistent armour stripping that would make the stagger a problem as well, and stripping all armour in one go is OP.
I don't see how puncture is any more thematic than cold, but tbqh, both would be dumb theme wise. What we really need is a rework of magnetic procs to make them make sense to use on enemies that aren't already-squishy corpus.
Right, so I should probably explain what I mean by 'properly absorbs damage from all weapons'.
From what I can tell Magnetize currently only tracks damage instances that actually hit an enemy within it. Shooting the sphere with no enemies inside does not add damage. Shooting at the sphere whilst enemies are inside it, but not in the center, will not add damage unless they collide with a shot left trapped in the field. If a single shot manages to strike enemies multiple times it will add damage to Magnetize multiple times. If an enemy is attacked with a weapon which has multishot and the target dies to the first pellet, then subsequent pellets will not add damage as the target died before they hit.
All of this together means that the properties of Mag's weapons and the health of Mag's target affect the damage dealt by Magnetize in an absurd manner.Two weapons which have the same DPS and time to kill can add dramatically different values to Magnetize. This is particularly significant when you compare high rate of fire but low damage weaponry, such assault rifles, and high damage but low rate of fire weapons such as snipers. They may both kill a target in a single shot, but only the sniper will contribute significantly to the damage absorbed by Magnetize. Status weapons are affected by this even more, as not only are they typically high rate of fire but low damage weapons, they also tend to rely upon the Corrosive status which does not actually deal damage.
I want to fix this.
Ideally by making it so that Magnetize tracks the damage type and damage dealt to the sphere itself, rather than the raw damage dealt to enemies inside of the sphere. This would still allow projectile weapons to damage enemies multiple times. It would not, however, allow a single Lanka shot to increase Magnetize's damage for every time it hits an enemy. This is not a nerf, though it may seem like it at first glance, because the damage type dealt by Magnetize's damage over time will be able to ignore 75% of a target's alloy armor with Radiation damage or 75% of a target's ferrite armor with Corrosive damage, on top of the expected 1.75x damage increase in both cases.
I'll be adding this to the OP.
In addition, I have added an explanation for why I 'reduced' the radius to 15m to the OP. I also buffed the pull distance--it was so low was due to me being unable to properly account for things like momentum and the specifics of Warframe's physics engine. The intention was always to have it pull targets somewhere around 3/4 of the way to the targeted point. That should be more clear now.As far as the Magnetic status goes:
A level 1 Detron Crewman has 150 shields and 60 health. A ratio of 2.5 shields : 1 health.
A level 100 Detron Crewman has 11,176 shields and 8880 health. A ratio of 1.25 shields: 1 health.
It stays at that ratio after that, I believe. At any rate, this actually makes the Magnetic status worse at higher levels than you might think! Toxin damage has ignored shields for more than five years, and I don't think that will ever change. Furthermore, Polarize was not nerfed because it removed enemies' entire shields. It was nerfed because, in addition to doing that, it also did that much damage in a massive area around it for each target hit. It allowed you to, more or less, instantly kill all Corpus or Corrupted enemies of any level in a massive area.
I don't think it's a problem for Mag to have access to some energy restoration. The probability of Mag generating an Energy Orb in 4 casts is only 68.4%. There's still a 31.6% chance she spawns no Energy Orbs after spending 300 Energy. Even if you increase her Strength to 200% and have 175% Efficiency, she still has a 25% chance to drop zero Energy Orbs in 2 casts. The only time this is actually a net gain of Energy for Mag is if you're running one or multiple Arcane Energize(s) and a very specific build designed to generate said orbs. Sure, it works through channeled abilities, but there are other frames such as Atlas, Hydroid, Ivara, and Nekros that can increase the chance that enemies drop Energy Orbs in a much more effective manner. This is an extremely minor thing. Oberon's Reckoning generating Health Orbs upon killing an enemy is an entirely pointless feature, outside of the lowest level missions where Health and Energy management is not a concern. It's highly unlikely that Reckoning will deal the killing blow, and even if it does, it is only a 50% chance.On 2018-06-07 at 7:34 AM, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:On the survivability point, wow! She's just as durable (slightly more durable actually) than every other caster!
I actually use negative or neutral strength and still come out getting the most kills in Kuva a lot of the time with my Mag.
Forced synergy? Not really. Not at all actually. Just go for chokepoints on the map and lock them down.
What MP said, sounds like you've barely touched the Frame and went on a rant because you don't like her.
It isn't a Mag only problem, but I never said it was exclusive to her, either. All frames should be able to take a hit or two in high level missions without being killed. We shouldn't need to permanently stun enemies to survive.
On 2018-06-06 at 3:42 PM, Ajwf said:I a good reason to run Fleeting Expertise. You cannot give me a justification that I'll accept for a 60% cut of your ability duration on Mag. There's no good reason.
I personally don't like having to run Magnetized Discharge and Streamline, so I find the negative duration helpful for Magnetize in many mission types. Pull and Crush are unaffected, and Polarize still has a massive range with relatively little duration. It depends upon the situation, really.
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44 minutes ago, Ajwf said:
Man, Mag got an absolute gift from DE with these last changes and people still complain like she's some garbage frame. There's a lot of stuff here that I think is honestly stupid to ask for because Mag doesn't need to be Loki/Octavia powerful, and her design is only getting more powerful in the general warframe meta as a large-scale area wiping/control frame.
The fact of the matter is Counter Pulse is currently one of the best augments in the game. Having a 4-second full disarm on almost every corpus minus melees, all grineer minus non-shield melees (and no infested...) is really insane. And then there's the fact that the ability, at a good duration, will seriously room-wipe all enemies of their weapons. It's finally worth using on it's own, and that means you get the shards for the magnetize bubbles you already spam.
Mag already has some of the best weapon synergies in the game, be it with the Supra Vandal, the Zennistar, the Drakgoon, the Zarr, and some of the weird projectile shotguns. These weapons (exception Zennistar, Supra) are basically worthless on their own but with Mag become insane killing machines off her 2, capable of shredding enemies at any level within magnetize.
And while overshields normally aren't worth it, I don't ever see people complaining sporting 2000 overshields like a damn Harrow blessed with perfect aim. They aren't hard to get, they gave her proper survivability for using her 4, they're actually pretty manageable to gain back.
If anything, I think some of her older augments need some QOL updates. Her Magnetize Discharge disarming enemies at a 50% chance on explosion helps exactly no one. 50% base, and affected by ability strength? I'm sorry, but ability strength is normally the one stat Mag can forgo and not feel bad about losing. You normally want a combination of range (1 pull area, 2 size, 4 area, 3 base size?), duration (2 length of time, 3 area covered, which is the big one) and efficiency. So you're basically at a coin flip for a disarm for each enemy. 200% Strength is not a build I've ever seen on Mag. The only other utility thing strength does for Mag is increase overshields on Crush and tbh that's not needed if you're using crush correctly. You normally gain 200 shields per tick over 3 ticks on most casts. Fracturing Crush is cool for stripping armor but the finishing CC (can't move for like 7 seconds) is useless because those enemies can still fire. I'd prefer a reduced fire rate or something to preventing movement in a game where we're so hyper mobile.
Like I find it hard to believe people are complaining about Mag herself given the state she was in prior to this rework. She's workable at any level and, with experience, incredibly strong. That's so much more than can be said for half the frames in this game. Lest we get too close to the sun and end up like Ember. Some of these criticisms would be cool to see (% armor strip on 3) but again, we're already close to the sun with how dominate she can be especially off her counter pulse augment.
I understand that Mag's in a much better state now than she was before--but just because something is good doesn't mean that it is wrong to want it to be great. She can still be improved quite a bit without being top tier or anywhere near overpowered. 🙂
If not exactly the changes in the OP, I think we can all agree on this much:- Pull should allow us greater precision in corralling enemies.
- Pull's Energy Orb generation mechanic shouldn't require her to kill the target.
- Magnetize's damage should scale better with the damage dealt by Pull/Polarize/Crush and the damage dealt by weapons that lack obvious synergy with the ability.
- Magnetize needs some sort of QoL changes to make it less difficult to use with projectile weapons.
- Magnetize should, in some way, have manual detonation.
- Polarize's armor reduction needs to scale far better than it does.
- Crush and Fracturing Crush need to be less redundant with Polarize and Counter Pulse since both abilities deal damage, remove armor, restore shields, and CC enemies.
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13 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:
The issue with magnetize is that enemies in front of magnetize can't be hit with hitscan weapons, and enemies on the edge of magnetize can only be hit with projectile weapons if the projectile passes through the enemy to get to the center of magnetize.
Like I said before, make the magnetize absorbtion area smaller(30~50% the size or so?) than the damage area and fix the hitscan bug, and magnetize will be fine. No further changes needed. It does plenty of damage, it just doesn't do it to enemies at the edge of the bubble, but if you can attack those enemies normally anyway, it doesn't matter. Simple fix, mechanically it's very similar to an existing ability(amesha), there's no reason this shouldn't solve everything without any major changes. Bonus points if the augment, instead of requiring reactivation to explode a bubble, causes the bubble to instantly(no slow shrink) burst as soon as no enemies occupy the space in the core(the part that absorbs bullets, as apposed to the damage area)
Crush detonating magnetize is a pretty big deal, and not a great idea. It removes the defensive property of camping inside the magnetize bubble, forces you to detonate all magnetize to activate crush, and it's not necessary to fix magnetize.
For the pull suggestion, the issue is that pull is mag's fastest CC ability for a reason. It's a defensive move meant to quickly incapacitate immediate threats to take the heat off mag so she can use the rest of her kit. The only issues it has are not working through walls, and greedy pull not pulling resources for the party. The proposed changes not only break this functionality(and it's important for squishy mag to have this!) but the other suggestions are honestly kind of OP.
Adding a stagger to base polarize is also unnecessary and undesirable as it would slow down enemy movement, which is the opposite of what you want in a defense mission, aka where the expanding bubble actually functions best. Leave it for the augment. I think the amour reduction should be a % of armor, though, and the damage should be a fixed value not capped by armor or shields. Enemies just explode for X damage on being hit(maybe 300 base? something low) after having their armor/shields reduced by Y %(25%*str?) since it currently doesn't scale to high level enemies, which is where armor stripping is needed in the first place.
Also, imo, change fracturing crush to cause a cold proc on the final tick rather than "stopping enemy movement", as the brief slow will have a much better effect on the CC viability of Crush. The armor reduction is honestly stupid, and should be shifted over to a more effective polarize, but eh. Maybe make it boost allied damage to affected enemies by 20%*power str.
But, those are pretty minor issues compared to bullet attract being worse than ever.
Since that Magnetize issue is an obvious bug or oversight I didn't feel like addressing it, but I did add it to the OP. Adjusting the size of Magnetize is a controversial change, which is why I didn't suggest it. It might not need considerable buffs, but the suggestion does improve projectile weapons being unable to hit things inside of the bubble without altering the physics because of the status chance and damage type changes. The only other way it is really affected is allowing Crush and Pull to increase its damage which should really be the case already since it is a drop in the bucket compared to a single Lanka/Tigris Prime shot. I get where you're coming from with Crush affecting Magnetize's detonation, but like I said standing inside of Magnetize bubbles used to be a reliable defense and is now a good way to get yourself killed. I'd honestly prefer Magnetize to just be recastable as a base function, but a lot of Mag players don't want that. I know I wouldn't want the augment to detonate automatically after killing all the enemies inside, since I may have enough duration remaining on it to detonate it on another group later (Unless that's what the Augment does AND the ability can be detonated manually as a base function).
I don't think the Pull cast paradigm changes affect its defensive use at all. It is virtually instant to mouse vaguely in front of you or at your feet and get the same benefit of current Pull. It having the Magnetic status certainly isn't OP. Shields are already irrelevant because Toxin damage ignores them, and there're a dozen weapons that can apply that effect just as easily like the Synoid Simulor. It creating Energy Orbs 25% of the time after spending 75 Energy is nothing compared to Trinity or Harrow or Zenurik or Large Energy Restores.
Polarize having a stagger shouldn't slow down defense missions because the only enemies that have no shields or armor are the Infested and some Corrupted units. You'd only trigger the stagger on enemies that you've already removed all the shields and armor off of, which means you've already used the ability and hit with its expansion at least once. Besides, a stagger only slows enemies down by about a half of a second. Polarize affecting base armor is more or less the same thing as affecting a percentage of total armor. The percentage just differs depending upon the enemy type. A Lancer has 100 base armor, and a Corrupted Bombard has 500 base armor. Polarize with 40% Strength would remove all of the armor off of a Lancer, but only remove 20% of a Bombard's armor. Polarize with >=200% Strength would remove all of the armor off of almost everything.
I actually originally had Fracturing Crush changed to a Cold proc, but it was redundant with new Magnetized Discharge and I felt it wasn't as fitting for her thematic as a generic Puncture proc. Both are good, since they add some additional utility and reduce the damage enemies deal. -
38 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:
Your suggestions to magnetize don't address the issue of it protecting enemies inside of it, and generally being a pain to work with, as well as generally not being necessary to it's function.
In fact, in general, these changes are pretty damn significant, and far more than "just QoL tweaks and bug fixes".
I also didn't see any mention of the hitscan magnetize bug.
My changes to Pull's cast paradigm are significant, but the basic idea is just to let Mag have actual control over where enemies get sent. You could fix that without changing the cast paradigm, which is what most people want. I thought about that and realized Mag doesn't always want to pull enemies to her since standing inside her own Magnetize bubble is likely to get her killed thanks to the physics changes a few patches ago.
As for Magnetize, by giving it a status chance, making its damage over time type match the damage it absorbs, and making it actually behave consistently and absorb the damage dealt from all weapons (as in please fix the bugs that seem to show up every other patch) it will fix Magnetize being a griefing tool. It will end up like Hydroid's Undertow where you can easily kill the things inside by shooting at it, at least for the enemies actually in the field. There's not much to be done about it blocking hallways except making it so that Mag is the only one who can contribute to it or making its range static both of which would feel terrible. It can be a little annoying, but Frost and Limbo are far worse than Mag in that regard, anyways.
What's significant about the other changes? You can do literally everything that you could before, but are infinitely more flexible and reliable.
Please undo Staticor's AoE boost
in Weapons
Posted
Fair point. I was tired and mixed up radius and diameter, largely because no one ever gives diameter when talking about Warframe so I misunderstood what Rob meant. I'm going to guess the area felt a bigger before due to the contrast between uncharged and charged shots. Regardless, point still stands that this 'buff' makes the charged shots pretty much a strict downgrade from the uncharged ones which kind of spits in the face of the weapon's design.
And this was painful to read. If you're going yammer like this to correct a misunderstanding at least have the decency to do so without being so petulant. Respect goes a long way.