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Posts posted by YagoXiten

  1. 1 hour ago, ShadowFox14 said:

    Double credits on kill. Which either doesn't even work, or we can get uneven credits basically, because I'm getting amounts of 135 and 261 credits from mobs that I kill with the Secura Lecta.
    But even if it worked, every 8th mob drops credits, and that's so abysmal it barely even makes a difference.
    Also, it's a MR8 weapon. If you reach that rank, you pretty much don't really care about the credits from the mobs. You can do a simple Dark Sector mission which gives 20K for just finishing a 5 min survival. Nobody cares about an extra 3K credit that you can get from mobs in that time.

    All the other syndicate melees have passives that help the player in combat (even if they are hard to use, like the charge attack on the Sancti Magistar) and they are mostly useful. Compared to those, the Secura Lecta doesn't deal more damage, and the passive is so useless that I can't even see any change.

    The Secura Lecta would be a pretty good weapon, nice range, good status chance and deals an okay damage as well. I also find the Coiling Viper stance actually quite fun and pretty fast.
    This weapon could have such amazing passives, and yet we get this. I had many ideas when it was confirmed that we will have different passives, but didn't know if I could submit my own ones.
    So I'm just giving you my ideas that I had:
    Because it's basically an electricity weapon, could be
    <[no channeling cost]
    <[100% electricity proc while channeling]
    <[every time you hit an enemy you gain X amount of energy]

    OR because it's Perrin Sequence, the passive could be
    <[each X amount of credit picked up would grant you X% damage buff]
    <[every X amount of credit would give X to your combo counter, hence increasing your damage multiplier]

    And I could come up with better ones, these were just the results of a few minutes of brainstorming.

    Some other Syndicate weapons even have 2 passives, so keeping the double credit and adding a second one that's good for combat would be the best option that would suit everyone's needs.

    YouTube, the Warframe Forums and Reddit are all filled with disappointed people about the passive. That should mean something.
    Please, DE, think about the community this time, and not about what YOU think is good.

    I'm a huge fan of either granting channeling damage on status procs, changing the base damage type to corrosive or adding impact to the base electric damage, or making each credit picked up add to the melee combo counter. That last one would actually be amazing. We might have a weapon besides the Redeemer that can feasibly hit a 5x Combo Counter.

  2. 3 hours ago, Arkvold said:

    Not at easy as you think.  Corpus and Infested would need armor added to nearly all their non-boss units.  Corrupted would need armor added to all of their Corpus-derived units.  Plus you'd have to consider how much armor you're adding.

    The reason why I made the comparison to nullifiers is this - nullifier shields effectively have capped damage on both ends of the range, and any damage above the the cap or below the cap is clamped to the nearest cap.  Your system would do the same to literally every enemy in the game, only having no lower cap and the upper cap based on the victim's armor.  Your system wastes a lot of damage output on a lot of weapons.  Even factoring in that stealth kill and headshot multipliers would be factored in after the gating effect, any damage outside the gating would be lost and not multiplied.  Meaning that eventually, as health scales up with level, there is literally no way to one-shot an enemy with attacks that, by all rights, should one-shot them, no matter how powerful or well-built your weapon is, because the maximum amount of damage they can take is capped.

    For example, say that, due to armor, under the amount of damage an enemy will take is capped at 500, and your weapon is guaranteed to do more.  Your stealth finishers on that inflict 4x normal damage, after all modifiers are considered.  So long as that enemy has 2,000 health or less, it dies, sure.  But the moment that enemy reaches 2,001 health or more, it doesn't matter how much more damage you stack, so long as your stealth finisher damage modifier is 4x, or that armor value isn't reduced, you cannot one-shot that enemy anymore with a stealth finisher.  And it will get incrementally worse  as their health scales up.  At 2,501, they can not only survive a stealth finisher, but also another hit from anything you can throw at them.  At 5,000 health, they can take two straight melee finishers and live.

    Do you see how this is a problem?  This is not only unsatisfying, but also outright dangerous.  It devalues normal attacks and normal damage and requires you to look for ways to bypass the gating mechanic in order to kill enemies efficiently.  Finishers become more important as they're the only means of bypassing the gating to any degree, which means that, paradoxically?  Ash becomes more powerful in this environment - or did you forget about his ability to trigger finishers on enemies stunned by Smokescreen or those he Teleports onto?  And the fact that Bladestorm is Finisher damage?  You cite him as one of the reasons you dislike playing in Sorties, and this idea would just make him that much more potent.  Corrosive Projection will become more important as Armor is still the god-stat that determines everything about your ability to take damage, even moreso than it already is.  Why have shields at all in this environment, unless armor applied to them, too?  Why have any other aura mods besides Corrosive projection, since that's the only one that'll actually help you kill anything faster.

    You complain about explosive weapons invalidating things like snipers and other single shot weapons.  That's not a fault of the explosives - they're just doing what explosives do - maim and kill multiple victims at once.  They got nerfed recently in that they no longer auto-headshot unless you actually detonate the explosive near the victim's head, so that their head is the first part of the victim touched by the blast.  So now they're working-as-intended.  It's just snipers and bows that need an overhaul to function as the ranged fingers of death that they should be.  Yet your idea would hurt them because it punishes bodyshots - they now have to land a headshot to bypass any degree of armor gating.  Warframe's a fast-paced game, you don't always have the opportunity to line up a perfect headshot, especially with a bow.

    Your idea would do nothing more than induce frustration, wasted calculations, and make people wonder how they can have weapons that inflict tens of thousands of points of damage and still not kill anything with it, which is both unintuitive and unrewarding.  It would take one of the reasons why Nullifiers are so hated right now ("why can't my sniper rifle or Opticor pop that nullifier shield like a soap bubble?!  It goes through bombards like a freight train!") and expand it to every enemy in the game. Please take it back to the drawing board.

    Adding armor to a unit is, mostly, merely setting a variable to a value. If that's the case, you could probably add armor to every single enemy in the game on your lunch break. As for how much armor to add, that should be pretty easy to figure out. I could also do that on a lunch break. You just need to calculate how resilient you want enemies to be. 500 for things like Corpus Techs, 300 for things like Comba, etc.

    You seem to be ill informed. See, actually, as health scales up per level, you can still very easily one shot them, provided your weapon currently has enough damage to do so. The gating is based off of maximum HP. Not their current health. Not their base health. If they have 2500 HP and 300 armor, then the cap on your damage would rise from 500 to 1250. And the 4x multiplier would easily dispatch them. So, no, I do not see how this is a problem.

    Nor do I see how this would only allow finisher damage to be relevant. There are still a great many other ways to bypass the gating. Fire rate, multishot, elemental combos, headshots, critical hits, status damage...At least one of those is available fairly reliably to every weapon in the entire game. Corrosive Projection is not the only way to improve your damage. Just because there is a gate in place does not mean that your damage is irrelevant. As enemies health gets larger and larger, your weapons will eventually fall behind to where they cannot do more damage than the gate protects from. In that case, your basically hitting an enemy for exactly as much damage as you can do with a full loadout.

    My apologies, I had originally included that it would be added to shields in the first post, and I did talk about it later in the thread, but I must have cut it out whilst editing the post. I'll just go ahead and add that back in.

    That IS a fault of explosives. Explosive weapons should flat out be weaker against single targets than dedicated single target weapons. Right now, many of the explosive weapons are some of the strongest single target killers, on top of being able to mow down hordes with little to no effort, accuracy, or thought. And, it does not punish body shots. It rewards headshots. There is a huge difference. The only time that you would be unable to instantly kill something that you can instantly kill now would be a bodyshot on a slow firing weapon without multishot, a proper elemental combo, critical chance, or status chance. I honestly cannot think of a single weapon in game that would have an issue meeting the criteria for that. The Penta, for example, fires slow and has little status chance, and little critical chance, and it can be difficult to get headshots. But if it were running Radiation damage, it would be capable of dealing 65.625% of a Bombard's HP with a single explosion. And that is without multishot. Under this system, if you mind the fact that you'll have to put a little more effort into killing heavy units, you run multishot, or you builld for critical hits or status. Or you just aim.

    Nullifiers are very different. They have a gate on the damage they can take per frame, and also ignore multipliers like critical hit. This is based upon damage instances.

    It's only marginally unintuitive, and it is not less rewarding. You would still need your weapons to deal large amounts of damage to kill enemies, especially as their level increases. However, it changes modding progression from being a one-way ticket into godhood into a means to merely progress further in the game. It keeps lower leveled enemies more relevant than they are now, without making them difficult to kill. At the absolute most, it would take you three shots to kill a Bombard. And that's bodyshots, without damage type considerations, or armor reduction effects, or status chance effects, or critical hits, or multishot. There's not a single weapon in the game that this would slow down, if you ran a loadout accounting for it.

  3. 35 minutes ago, Arkvold said:

    The idea of enemy armor not scaling with enemy level is great.  Warframe armor is static save for mods, I don't see why enemy armor gets to scale.  It would end a lot of the scaling issues that occur with armor, causing armor to be the god-stat that determines whether or not you can kill an enemy.

    I don't like the rest of your idea though.  Why?  Because of two reasons.

    Your health gating based on armor idea fails in the face of enemies that do not have armor.  Second of all, it ensures that no enemy can die in one hit unless you have obscene levels of multishot and enough raw damage to put them down.  We already have an enemy that can't die in one hit - it's called a Nullifier, and the fact that they can't be one-shot outside of their bubble is a huge reason why they're so tremendously annoying if you're using a heavy, slow-firing weapon and don't have a rapid-firing alternative and can't safely close to melee range.

    I do not want to play Warframe if every single enemy has the same kind of durability as a nullifier outside of its bubble.  Gating mechanics are fine when applied to players, because any given player is going to endure a lot more attacks being thrown their way than any given enemy.  Giving gating mechanics to enemies just serves to artificially lengthen their lives and thus the time they spend being a threat to you, and it both cheapens and weakens a lot of weapon types.

    For instance, if your idea were implemented, forget playing a sniper rifle at all.   Not only do rifles have less multishot potential than any other weapon (they have no equivalent of Lethal Torrent, and Split Chamber provides only 90% multishot, compared to Barrel Diffusion's 120%), but sniper rifles are built around the idea of one-shot, one-kill.  Their slow fire rates and reliance on carefully picking your shots while under high zoom magnification (and thus having no situational awareness beyond what you can see with the scope) ensures that, if enemies can't die in one shot it's going to take a very long time to die compared to other weapons.

    Your idea would also interfere with stealth kill mechanics.  A stealth kill occurs if you can drop an unaware enemy with a single shot, whether it be from melee range with a Stealth Finisher, or from a distance with a sufficiently high-powered weapon.  Being unable to kill enemies in one shot means that stealth kills from range become impossible (and bows become useless, as their main advantage over a sniper rifle is their silence), and that melee stealth finishers only serve to soften up victims, who you then have to take out with normal melee attacks.

    Explosive weapons would also lose value.  No longer could you blow up a crowd of weak enemies with a single shot, as their gating mechanics would ensure that they survive it.  When I grenade a pack of chumps, I expect them to die, not be blown over like I'd just shoved them on the playground, only to get up and start attacking me again.

    Making your idea work would require a lot of exceptions to the gating system, modifications to existing enemies, and a terrible amount of snowflake coding.  I can't support that.

    Add armor to enemies who do not presently have it? That seems like a pretty easy solution.

    I'm not sure why you'd think that it would be anything like what a Nullifier has. This is based upon damage instances. The Nullifier's bubble has a capped rate of reduction per frame, and that's very, very different.

    Did you miss the part where headshots and damage type and critical multipliers are factored in after gating? I think you missed that part. An enemy with 300 armor would die in one shot to a sniper rifle that normally would one shot it, so long as the hit were a Criitical with a 2.0 multiplier or higher, the shot was a headshot, or if you had multi-shot. You could also use Corrosive Projection, which would reduce a 300 armor enemy to 210, which would mean that you'd only need to have the proper 75% elemental combo multiplier and enough damage to kill them.

    A stealth kill would still very definitely be possible, considering that, as I just explained, one-shotting enemies is not a problem. And, again, stealth finishers are a multiplier which, as I mentioned (though not explicitly in this case) would be calculated after gating.

    Explosive weapons losing value is part of the point of this. You're worried about gating harming snipers (which, as I've detailed, would not actually do so at all), and still want to keep explosive weapons as they are now? I love my friend Mike, I play with him a lot. I still get really tired of his Amprex destroying everything in the room behind cover before I can even pull charge a shot on my Lanka. And he's usually pretty nice about it. I solo sorties, because if I go into them all it is is Tonkor, Simulor, Bladestorm, Exalted Blade or whatever the flavor of the month room destroying cheese is. It gets old. If we have weapons that can put out sniper level damage on an entire room, why the hell would anyone use an actual sniper or single target weapon?

    Anyways, you would still be able to blow up weak enemies in droves, provided you're using the correct elemental combo, or getting headshots, or criticals, or some status proc, or you use Corrosive Projection. You would not, however, most likely instantly kill the heavy units like Bombards in a single hit with them. You might have to possibly fire twice, or just use multishot. I'm sure the Tonkor and Synoid Simulor would be just fine with a teeny slap on the wrist irrelevant nerf that requires they take half a second extra to kill heavies rather than just everything within 15 meters. And I'm sure people would enjoy using a lot more different weapon types if there was less competition to mow down crowds with AoE damage and CC weapons.

    It really doesn't require that many exceptions. You just calculate multipliers after the gating. And Warframe is built off of an awful lot of snowflake coding, though I don't see why this would have to be snowflake coded at all. And that's really not my concern, it's not as though I'm capable of knowing their coding or how it'd interact with it. I don't work on the game.

  4. 2 minutes ago, Angrados said:

    Okay, so the concept is interesting. But I have to ask, and perhaps this is the obligatory silly question: You mention max health for Warframes, but what about shielding? How would the gating behave with a Warframe's shield, if at all? Unlike Inaros, most Warframes do have a certain level of shielding that allows them to mitigate a degree of oncoming damage- would this gating technique give rise to new shield builds, if that behaves on different principles than the health gating system?

    The way it would work on shields is the exact same way as it works on health, and it is based upon maximum health, but shields regenerate unlike health, and they have a different interaction with various damage types.

    Take Volt Prime, for example. He has 1110 shields with a maxed Redirection. Without Vitality, he has 300 health. And his base armor is 100. An armor of 100 means he cannot take more than 75% of his maximum health in damage from any single hit. With 300 HP, the highest amount of damage in a single instance that he could take would be 225. If he were to equip Vitality he would be able to sustain a maximum damage from a single hit of 555. Now, at first, this seems like Vitality would be a bad thing to equip, since it would mean he takes more raw damage from large hits, which lowers the effectiveness of his shields since he could take more damage on them, even though the percentage of maximum HP remains the same. But it is important to remember that the gating only protects against large hits. The result is that while he ends up gaining less longevity for his shields by equipping Vitality, he gains a much larger pool of health against smaller hits, such as those from a Lancer's Hind. Vitality also adds a large pool of health to be converted to Energy with Rage. And it also enables Fast Deflection and Fortitude to see some play, because increasing the rate that you gain your shields back can make up for having 555 shields depleted from a Bombard rocket, rather than 225.

    On other Warframes, such as Valkyr, you would be able to gain a very large defensive boost by equipping Redirection and Steel Fiber with no Vitality. In that case, 1200 armor and 300 HP means that she could take a maximum of 60 damage per instance. Whilst this may sound very strong on the regenerating pool that shields are, it would mean that she would not be able to run Rage. It also does not help her much against Corpus Techs, because their high rate of fire will still be able to chew through her.

    Against enemies that are low level, remember that this gating would change almost nothing, because enemies would already be unable to hit you for more than the gate value.

    At the same time, though this may provide you with significant defense at very high enemy levels, you are by no means immortal. The sheer number of smaller hits you will take will very quickly whittle you down. Enemies with shotguns can likely still one shot many frames, because even with no Vitality, Volt taking 225 damage from eight pellets (and remember, that this is before calculating in damage type, is is possible it would be more than 225 damage, if it were Impact against shields, for example, it would deal 337.5 damage) with only 300 maximum HP would kill him. If he threw on Vitality, there's a good chance that even though he allowed each pellet to rise a bit above 225 damage, they would not be dealing so much damage that his health would be completely depleted, and he still would be protected from at least a single Bombard rocket. This gating doesn't protect you from everything. Being one-shot by a Detron Crewman could happen, but in general, we do not want squishy frames to be immortal. We just do not want them getting one-shot against unavoidable things. And enemies with Shotguns have limited range, and can be avoided. You could still die to two consecutive Bombard rockets that come in one after another, but there's also a good possibility that you could avoid at least one of them.

    It won't protect you from everything. But it will give you a fighting chance in far more circumstances than we have currently.


  5. 28 minutes ago, DSpite said:

    1) Stop fighting enemies of level 200+ because you are not meant to. DE will implement enemy balance when it starts balancing FRAMES. Stop trying to go 1+ hours in Defense. You are farming. I know that, DE knows that, we all know that. You are basically saying "please make my farming easier against high level enemies" when the opposite is what needs to happen.

    2) We have an entire ORDER OF MAGNITUDE more killing power then enemies. The only thing that saves them from one being one shotted at all levels is the scaling. You take that away we one shot level 500+. First, lower OUR killing power, THEN fix the enemies.

    3) I fail to see what that changes on actual weapons that fire bullets. Might as well not use it, and then we have another slot for a BETTER damage mod. Split Chamber is a Mod that should do DIFFERENT things for DIFFERENT weapon classes, the Mod itself needs to change.

    4) No. Things like crit spots are the perfect things for weapons like Snipers, or people with good accuracy, AND a reason to waste less ammo against tough enemies, instead of the standard "pray and spray" techniques. If anything, enemies need a more CLEAR definition of where the critical spots are. Taking out Loaders in Borderlands by shooting at joints was one of the most FUN things about facing even high level loaders. We should have MORE of that, not less.

    You are requesting "fixes" to a problem that does not exist unless you face enemy levels that are FOUR HUNDRED PERCENT higher then us.

    Please feel free to list how many games you know that has players facing off against enemies even twice their max level and still managing to just walk over corpses at max running speed. The word "level" has to designate "a scale" and when level 30 Frames face off against level 200 enemies, it should mean "instant death", not "a slight bother".



    1. I don't fight level 200+ enemies. In fact, the highest level enemies I've ever seen in a mission have been level 125 or so (unless you count the 9999 Tactical Alert). I could fight higher level enemies, true. Though I will admit I do test weapons in the Simulacrum regularly against level 110 enemies, and I do run damage calculations on enemies of level 140. I do not enjoy Defense, and so I do no more than 20 Waves of Defense ever, and even that is a massive rarity. There is no reason to farm against high level enemies anymore, with Void 2.0. This is entirely a pointless section of your post.

    2. That's precisely what this does. I'd be happy to run the numbers by you to prove this. Under this proposal, we no longer get one shot by Bombard rockets or Ballistas. We are, however, still capable of going down virtually instantly to Fusion MOAs, Lancers, Detron Crewman, etc. as they deal multiple instances of damage. Our AoE weapons like the Synoid Simulor would be unable to easily terminate the entire room in a single shot, as it would take at least two explosions to destroy even the weakest of enemies, unless you could deal enough damage with the proper elemental combo multiplier, or a headshot, or a critical, to ensure their destruction. And that would still not be enough to terminate things likes Bombards and other heavy units which have more aggressive gating. This balances AoE weapons. Single target weapons such as the Soma Prime would still destroy and mow through single enemies as they do now, but the trade off is that they are single-target. Shotguns would be able to one shot anything, up to a point similar to now, as would Snipers. In essence, fire-rate, hit count, accuracy, critical hit rate, status chance, and damage type, all become relevant factors for dealing with the gating, which is now necessary. You'd have a variety of ways to achieve succes depending upon the weapon and what you enjoy the feel of, rather than aiming for strictly a DPS race.

    3. On assault rifles, not much changes. Correct. But this opens them up to mods like Stabilizer, Hush, Critical Delay, Fast Hands, etc. This is diversifying the class. AoE weapons change, so do shotguns and snipers. Quite a lot, actually, depending upon the stats of the weapon in question.


    4. Headshots are not removed. Critical damage is not removed. In case you were not aware, a Critical Hit with the Dread, baseline, does 2x damage. A headshot does 2x damage. But a headshot that is /also/ a critical recieves an additional 2x multiplier (a total of 8x damage). This is the reason that critical damage is king. It is a multiplier, that also comes with a free multiplier. This is the reason that weapons that are critical weapons, which have a hard time getting headshots, are significantly less viable than they appear to be on paper. It actually skews game balance, and rewards a particular multiplicative damage increase (critical hit) more than others, like fire rate, high base damage, or status chance.

    5. These fixes are relevant at all levels of play, and I'm not sure why this escaped you. It makes it more difficult for higher geared players to chew through lower leveled enemies. So rather than a Mastery Rank 22 player coming into a mission on Mecury in Public mode and being immortal and being able to kill the entire map with his Rakta Cernos' Blight proc, he is just immortal. This also means that people like Mag will not be instantly killed in T4 missions. And yes, this does happen, and no, these are not level 200 enemies. These are level 40 Void missions. It can happen even on Pluto to certain frames.  Level 200 enemies under this system would still be a significant challenge. You would merely not be one shot. You would, however, still be very capable of dying in a few hits. And you can still be hit in rapid succession by Lancers and killed. But you will not be killed because you took a single tick of damage from a Sapper Osprey mine.


    12 minutes ago, DiosGX said:

    Let's see, I could do 1000 dmg, and have armor applied to my damage once. Or hit for 500 twice, and have armor applied to each hit, lowering the damage twice...



    If an enemy has 300 armor, and 1000 HP, lowering 1200 damage to 500 is more than a 50% reduction in total damage dealt. Lowering two instances of 600 damage to 500, however, will be only a ~16.67% reduction in total damage.

  6. 21 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

    With regards to the multishot change, then what's the point of multishot? To have a less accurate weapon?

    17 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

    This rather defeats the purpose of multishot. It won't increase the damage so it's not a stat buffer, and it won't increase the spread enough to pretend it's more useful for clustered enemies. At best, it'll be a slight status boost, for a horrendously high cost.

    I was hoping someone would bring this up.

    No, it very much so does not defeat the purpose of multishot. You see, with a gating mechanic in place, the Dread or the Lanka, even with infinite damage, would have their damage reduced to 37.5% of a Bombard's maximum health. Whether that Bombard is level 8 or level 140. That sounds like a problem, right? After all, it'd be pretty awkward to have a weapon that can deal insane damage in a single shot to be unable to kill a very low level enemy. That is because this system is based off of reducing single instances of damage. But multishot would reduce the damage dealt of each shot, and in compensation, allow you to deal two instances of damage. In essence, partially bypassing the gating.


    You'd be able to deal 75% of a Bombard's maximum health, rather than 37.5%, since you hit twice. With critical hit multipliers, or elemental multipliers, factoring in after the gating, you'd actually be able to deal 2 [Critical Multiplier] x  2 [Multishot] x 37.5% [Gate] of a Bombard's maximum health, for a total of 150% of its health, killing it. Or if you were using Radiation damage, and the shot did not crit, you would deal 1.75 [Radiation] x 2 [Multishot] x 37.5% [Gate], for a total of 131.25% of its maximum health. If you did not hit the gate, because the enemy has far more HP than you are capable of dealing damage, then you gain no direct upgrade from multishot as far as damage goes, though you might if you factor in status procs. If you hit the gate easily, even with multishot installed, then perhaps you would be better off using Elemental damage, or critical mods, or fire rate, or reload speed. This makes each weapons loadout vastly different, depending upon what you are going for, since it is no longer all that important to specialize in pure damage.

    Weapons like the Soma Prime, who fire very quickly, would likely never deal enough damage per bullet to worry about the gate. So they would be wanting to specialize in pure damage builds. Multishot would still remain an option, but would not be mandatory, since the gate bypass would not matter. On high level enemies, anyways. On lower level enemies, though, a fast firing weapon would hit the gate, and would want to include Multishot, because it would, otherwise, drain more ammo to kill an enemy. But they could also run Ammo Mutation. Against higher level enemies, the status procs might be valued enough to run multishot.

    Depending upon what weapon you are talking about, this would add either a very significant amount of build variety, or they would still have one build, but it would be far different from other weapons.


    In other words: Modding becomes about options and choice.


  7. Hello, ladies and gents. I've a laundry list of simple suggestions (which will, sadly, probably never be implemented) to fix Warframe's enemy scaling, mandatory mods, and individual Warframe's survivability issues in one fell swoop.

    1. Armor applies to shields, and is changed from a percentage damage reduction on all damage to a gating mechanic per damage instance based upon maximum health. In other words, rather than 600 armor reducing 1000 damage to 333, and 2000 damage to 666, all damage greater than 33% of maximum health is reduced to 33% of maximum health. Thus a Valkyr with  740 maximum health and 600 armor would be unable to take more than 247 damage in a single instance. A Valkyr with 1200 armor and 300 health would be unable to take more than 60 damage in a single instance.

    2. Armor values are now static for enemies, exactly as they are for Warframes. A level 140 Heavy Gunner would have 300 armor, the exact same value as a level 8 Heavy Gunner.

    3. Multishot now splits the damage dealt evenly between the total shots, rather than adding more that deal normal damage. So rather than Split Chamber allowing your Torid to fire two shots each dealing 500 damage, it would fire two shots each dealing 250 damage.

    4. Headshot critical bonus removed. Critical hit multipliers, elemental damage multipliers, and headshot multipliers are factored in after gating.

  8. 1 hour ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

    Gas Normal Lecta kills Grinner Augmented Armor in Sorties with no Corrosive Projection

    Gas Normal Lecta also kills Grinner Elemental Enhancement in Sorties

    I did say Melee status procs do not fit most playstyles in my previous post.

    Inaros, Banshee, Ivara, Excalibur, Equinox, Oberon, & Mirage are who can exploit Gas Stealth Melee DoTs ; Saryn with Gas Lecta Quick-Melee or  Gas Serro can also stack DoTs at an insane rate

    These are Frames that benefit more from Status Stealth Multiplier melee than crit viable melee weapons.

    The largest benefit that Secura Lecta would get without needing Weeping Wounds is the access to Red Crits on Slide Attack while still maintaining a Gas  Status build or enhanced attack speed with Berserker.

    (Primed Pressure Point, Primed Fury, Primed Reach, Volcanic Edge, Virulent Scourge, Body Count, ________,_______)

    Either Weeping Wounds occupies a slot or if 100% status is obtainable because of passive mechanic then a player can slot Maiming Strike & Blood Rush, or Berserker

    If those aren't much of a buff...then we we aren't seeing things on the same page.

    Even if DE didn't want to create a new mechanic....a base status chance buff from 25% to 45.5% would be most ideal for those that want the option of Status viable melee rather than the more common crit heavy weapons.

    If the desire is for the Secura Lecta mechanic to be more beneficial to overall gameplay: the Doubled Status chance Multiplier could be applied to the characters weapons so that merely carrying a Secura Lecta and picking up credits is just status chance buff to all equipped guns.


    I actually love status weapons and builds, for the record. The loadout I use on Sayrn is Corrosive Mutalist Cernos, Viral Tysis/Pox, and attack speed/crit Shattering Impact Mios. The problem is that it's niche and gimmicky and only viable on those few frames. And you could still do that on the Atterax almost as easily, so it still doesn't make the Secura Lecta stand out...


  9. 4 hours ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

    I think the extra credits on kill is fine, however I feel it should have been paired with a Status chance buff.

    - Doubled Status chance for 6secs upon credit pickup in mission. This would have it paired to synergize with Secura Syndana & a nice play on words in terms of Wealth increasing Status.

     A Lecta with a mechanic to achieve 100% status without Weeping Wounds and preferably with only needing 2 Dual-stat mods....would make it top melee for AoE clearing... especially since Whip Quick-melee can be easily used to avoid single target Finishers, thus allowing pairing with Gun AoE procs.


    As for high level viability: Normal Lecta out performs Atterax if built around Melee Status strong point.

    - Gas with Stealth Multiplier boosting the full duration DoTs.

    Does not work with Naramon Shadowstep nor Loki's Invisibility* Which means it has to be paired with Blind/Savage Silence/Rest/Sleep/Dessication ability mechanics

    Gas creates AoE Toxin except on melee it is still treating as AoE instant headshot: so instead of 50% damage for ticks it is 100% damage for each tick.

    Weapons like Serro or Lecta being Elemental only and achieving 100% status allows Gas Toxin DoTs to build very quickly and when partnered with the 400% Melee Stealth Modifier : Gas is viable even against Sortie Elemental Enhancement or Augmented Armor with no need Corrosive Projection.

    For most normal uses and playstyles..yes Atterax is stronger weapon, but not with a dedicated build to capitalize on Status Procs +Stealth Multiplier....it loses out.

    Serro in this video: but given Secura Lecta has almost identical stats (75 base damage, 25% status chance, 1.5x Crit multiplier, 5% Crit chance)to Serro bit greater range...I'm sure it would have performed better. Gas DoTs because of they build with AoE just perform better than Slash on terms of Mob/group DPS. Slash is better for single target...but so is a boosted Finisher multiplier from Radiant Finish/Savage Silence.


    The problem is that that setup is extremely niche and inaccessible for a significant amount of content and playstyles. It should hardly be our main focus when discussing balance.

    Furthermore, you can already easily hit 100% status chance with Weeping Wounds, and being able to do so without Weeping Wounds would not be all that much of a buff. The only real purpose of Status weapons is to abuse Gas/Electric procs against the Corpus, or Corrosive against the Grineer. But the latter only works if your weapon has damage enough to kill unarmored targets, which the Lecta lacks. The former works very well, but killing Corpus with just about anything isn't an issue.


    2 hours ago, Lyravain said:

    For me, all Secura Lecta needs is a small buff; the more credits you have gathered recently, the bigger a damage/reach/status buff it would get. And by recently, I mean 'so long as there are credits gained that are shown on the bottom of the screen'. That way, if you can keep the ball rolling and racking in the cash, you'd get a good source of power, but should you stop, you'll revert to a weaker weapon until you pick up the slack again.

    Alternatively, just because most of the Syndicate weapons have effects that activate on a charge attack, this could work; "On Charge Attack, force 100% extra random drop, if the enemy dies". There, your Secura Lecta is now your very own pocket Thief :D

    The first suggestion there would be fine. It'd have to have a decent duration to actually be useful, but it could be significant.

    The charge attack suggestion, however, is not a very good one. Charge attacks are by their nature slow. Status weapons require speed and tend to lack raw damage. As a result, the Secura Lecta would have a weak charge attack and you wouldn't be able to actually use the passive. Well, except on very low level content, which I suppose would help farming, which is something, but it isn't all that relevant to combat.

  10. 4 hours ago, Dod-Regnbue said:

    Has anyone thought that maybe just have the Syndicate melee weapons do the same as what the other weapons do? Instead of these stupid little perks, give me my syndicate proc. That was the only reason I was excited for them. But now. My Prisma Dual Cleavers and Prisma Skana are miles better than any of the actual Syndicate weapons. Why? Because they PROC!

    What we have now is pointless. Rakta Dark Dagger is a joke. The only reason any of us use a Dagger is Inaros or Ivara with Covert Lethality. But if you hit an the same any again after he has been Rad Proc'd you get Over Shield, one problem, COVERT LETHALITY!.

    PS. it really annoys me that Magistar does Impact. It is a giant mace. Puncture please. Seriously, DE, google mace, have a look at all the spikey spikey, and tell me what damage type comes to mind. Especially since you gave magistar actual spikes. Impact, nice.

    The Rakta Dark Dagger I have yet to test personally, but its mechanics are solid and interesting, so whether or not it needs buffed, it doesn't need a rework like the Secura Lecta does. Honestly, the Secura Lecta is the only one that needs a significant rework. The Sydon needs some tweaks to how the blind is handled, but the idea is solid.

    4 hours ago, DSpite said:

    And there is the problem. First off, your own fault for getting hyped. I have not done that for since Atari cartridge games. I advise you to do the same.

    Gave you crap? No one "gave you" anything. New things just exist now that did not exist yesterday. Months from now, all that stuff will have "jut been there" ... well, for months really, and it will be "just stuff" that exists in game, that you can choose to get or not to get.

    And yes, when "free stuff" exists, it IS free from criticism. If you come over to my house and I'm having dinner and I say "if you want some stuff, take it" and you come back with "your food is rubbish, I DEMAND YOU COOK ME SOMETHING ELSE", I'm going to tell you what you can do with that attitude.

    Do you run around with your Prisma Gorgon? It's maxed out and has 40 kills on it, so the answer is NO. Well, now there is another weapon that you won't run around with. Nothing has changed.

    Our gear stats are not "written in stone". If they get changed, they will get changed when DE has some usage statistics to back it up, not because one needy person.

    Excitement is an emotion, and emotions are conditions that, though one can somewhat control and can, obviously, choose to act in spite of, cannot avoid being subjected to. So, no, it is not my fault. Or anyone's fault? It just is a matter of fact.

    As far as giving goes, I think you're taking things a bit out of context and past the metaphor. The point being that that just because something is presented for you (whether you take it or not) does not mean that you should be unable to criticize the fact that it was presented, or what the object being presented is. Furthermore, there is a difference between being rude and disrespectful, and politely declining something, and there is also a difference between calmly discussing that the steak you made was too dry and offering perfectly good culinary advice to improve it. Socially, that sort of thing might be frowned upon and seen as a sign of arrogance, but these are the feedback forums. They are INTENDED for criticism and discussion. Nowhere have I demanded anything. I have not raged or thrown a tantrum or anything of the sort. What I have done is criticize the flaws in the weapon's design. Which is what this forum is for. Yes, I do understand that the credit bonus passive is not literally useless, as it does confer some sort of use, but forgive my use of colloquial speech. The point is that the passive is designed to be relevant and enticing, and it is currently too weak to be relevant to the vast majority of players, and is literally useless to those veterans who are running around with a full set of every Rank 10 and every other mod maxed and a hundred million credits.

    The other thing to keep in mind is that I am not receiving content for free. I pay for the game with both actual cash, and by being active in the community and spending time on it, and by recommending it to other players. Even a completely Free to Play player is paying, to some extent, for the product that is this game, because without them there is no game, independent of DE being a business or not. And, obviously, they are a business, which means that they have a business model that allows people to play completely for free for a reason. And satisfying that reason by playing at all is a form of payment. So yes, we the players have every right to criticize, so long as we do so fairly, and I am and always will do so. Also, again, this is a forum for doing so, and it stands to reason that, since DE hosts the servers and made this forum, they are actually asking for the feedback.

    And actually, another weapon that I won't run around with IS a change. Why? Because, believe it or not, there is a limited amount of items in game or that are likely to be in game. And the Secura Lecta is a weapon that I want to run around with. So what has changed? There is something I would like in game that is a shadow of what it should be, and, as a result, I am disappointed and essentially robbed of content that I would enjoy but cannot. This is very similar to opening a new restaurant and then blocking the doorway from patrons with green eyes. It's denial based upon ignorance, or a genuine misunderstanding. And, either way, DE should be aware of it. And usage statistics are far from the only data metric they use to analyze their choices and to decide how to proceed.

    I'm certain that a single person with a well-written and concise feedback post has, at one point or another, been all it has taken for them to make a change. Because DE are smart people and are capable of looking at arguments based upon their merit.


  11. 3 minutes ago, ScorpioneITA said:

    You're missing the concept. Secure lecta isn't designed to farm credits, just to assist you with it.

    Put it this way, you are doing a low level alert/fissure etc. Everything instantly dies by any melee. What do you use? Gelatine prime? Nikana prime? No wait, you have an option to use a secura lecta and get something. Whilst hack n slashing through the easy place.

    If you want to farm credit you're better off in a party with nekros and chroma.

    This however allows to solo and gain something.

    If you earn 10k by killing. Now its 20k. It's not the worse thing. Your math is based around endgame and not the average game.

    No, you're missing the point. The level of 'assistance' it grants you is nigh negligible. The gain from it is so little, that unless I really wanted to use the weapon for its stats or it stance or its flavor, I wouldn't spend the time to equip it, even when trying to maximize credit farming, which is what the bonus does. It will take literally hours of time to earn a bonus of 10k credits from the Secura Lecta. HOURS. I can get that by running dozens of other missions in mere minutes.

    This is so small that it is entirely useless.

    A bonus should be rewarding. Granting a negligible amount of extra credits on melee kills when the enemy happens to drop credits is not rewarding.

    I do not see how any of that math was based upon end game. It was a casual play of a mission that is respectable for my gear level. That's about as average as you can get.

    The amount of time it took to kill enemies was very low (many things could be one shot with slide attack). And I had a full loadout on it, with Rank 9 Primed Pressure Point. The credit gain per kill / time spent would most likely be significantly lower in 'average' gameplay. And even if it is higher it isn't going to be noteworthy.

  12. 1 hour ago, Azamagon said:

    My ideas for it:
    When equipped: Zaps a nearby alerted enemy with lightning, every 4 seconds or so. High status chance, chance affected by mods, range affected by (Primed) Reach. Base zapping range could be the same as the whip's range?
    Always active: Status-procs (be it with manual attacks of the passive zap) grants the wielder (over)shields.

    There you go. Two passives that synergize with each other and both which help in combat: Attacking with it (often) grants shields and the passive zap can help with both some CC and granting shields even quicker.
    Also, it being related to status is fitting imo (status and money, ya know?). It granting shields is also related to the Sequence syndicate effect, the thing it is missing.

    (Note: The Rakta Dark Dagger granting overshields is highly unfitting. It should instead grant a bit of ENERGY on KILL, imo. More helpful when trying to be stealthy and/or violent).

    I would be perfectly fine with the Lecta granting shields based upon damage dealt, or a flat amount per status proc, or something similar. But it also could use a damage buff, considering how far behind the Atterax it falls. I'm not asking for the rapidly-becoming-overdone Blood Rush build to be viable on it, but it needs /something/.

    Actually, interestingly enough, apparently the Secura Lecta (and all the Syndicate melees) DO have two passives. The first is the melee kill credit booster, and the second is increased finisher speed. I am completely baffled. Did DE mix up the Lecta and the Dark Dagger? Because, really, shields on status proc sounds very Secura, and finishers sound very Rakta. Yes, the shields are currently tied to Radiation procs, but the damage of the Sequence effect is Radiation, so it still fits perfectly fine with Secura.

    1 hour ago, ScorpioneITA said:

    So are the credits. Scan is the only truly useless one(they don't provide anything to the game i mean your codex? how many actually use that?)

    Vaykor sydon is also useful.

    The thing is before this day meeles didn't have any form of silimilar active effects etc. People already complaining about them. Be glad you aren't just getting a plain weapon.

    You also get the Specter, which does draw some enemy fire. It isn't amazing, but it's there. Also, scans are useful for unlocking content in the Simulacrum, and it is much, much faster to use the Heliocor than to collect scans, and that was a feature on the base Heliocor, not a new addition, so it's not particularly relevant to the discussion of the effectiveness of passives.

    I currently have a Credit Booster from Nekros Prime. I ran melee only on him and killed 173 enemies in 10 minutes on Mot. Total mission credits: 14,068. Taking out the Credit Booster, 7,034 credits. Taking out Nekros granting ~1.5x drops, ~4689 credits. And, finally, this leaves us with the Secura Lecta's doubled credit drop passive, which would have accounted for ~2,345 credits. In other words, you can expect to earn 14,070 credits per hour of straight killing. Or an average of 14 or so credits per melee kill.

    This is utterly awful.

    Of course people are complaining. There's significant issues that need addressed with these weapons that we were all hyped for. If I gave you a literal pile of crap, do not tell me that you would thank me. The mere act of being gifted something does not mean it is free from criticism. That's absurd.


  13. 11 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

    Yes because its totally impossible for someone who has been around a significant amount of time to run out of credits...

    And no. It should NOT give more of every drop. You already get a default credit booster that never runs out with it, and now you want it to also have resource drop chance? And they say the corpus were greedy...

    I myself currently do not have credits. I need to farm them. I'm certainly not going to do so banking off of the Secura Lecta.

    it is NOT a Credit Booster. It is nowhere near a Credit Booster.It does not work on mission rewards, or all the time. It only works when you kill enemies with the weapon, and they drop credits. That is it.

    I honestly don't care about resources, either. I care about ammo, and Energy Orb drops.


    11 minutes ago, ScorpioneITA said:

    I'm poor and I have loads of standings.

    It's just a bonus, it doesn't have to a certain bonus to make it decent. You are just seeking something TOO useful or/and something that would mainly benefit vets. Vets do need some love for sure. Content wise, not with just some average melee weapons.

    Weapons aren't balanced around Mastery Rank or enemies. It's about novelty and how they cangain people to purchase plat to buy the new things because they are just a bit better than what is out there in one way or another.


    I agree on the combat passive. If some have it, all should.


    The Sancti Magistar's healing is amazingly useful, and so is the Telos Boltace's AoE, and the Rakta Dark Dagger's overshields.

  14. 1 minute ago, ScorpioneITA said:

    it's a utility weapon. It allows poor people credits (and there are more than maxed out credits people) to have an income. Not all weapons need to be designed for super late game vs 1000+ lvl enemies

    Poor people will not have 125,000 Standing. It only increases income from credit drops, and enemies do not always drop credits. Even running Nekros and melee only, I still don't get enough credits to actually make it anywhere near relevant for farming purposes.

    Correct, not all weapons need to be designed for super late game. I would expect, however, that a Mastery Rank 8 weapon should outclass, or at least keep up with, a Mastery Rank 2 weapon of the same class, and that a thematic Syndicate weapon should keep up (to some degree) with the other weapons from the other Syndicates. Secura Lecta fails to do both of those. I also expect that it should have some sort of combat passive, when every other Syndicate has one. Or /two/, in the case of the Telos Boltace, Sancti Magistar, and Rakta Dark Dagger.


  15. The Secura Lecta is underwhelming. Yes, it's capable of handling Sortie level content, but it falls considerably short there compared to many other melee options, and  far behind the easily acquired Atterax. Worse, it has nothing fun or quirky when modding it. You pretty much throw on Corrosive and/or Toxin/Gas, depending upon the faction you're facing. 

    And its unique passive is entirely moot, since many of us have more credits than we know what to do with, and there's other more efficient ways to farm credits.

    I propose the following:

    1. Enemies killed by the Secura Lecta have a 100% chance at all extra drops.

    2. Each status proc provides a stacking buff that increases the Channeling Damage of the weapon by 5% for five seconds.


  16. 7 hours ago, Cytobel said:

    My 2 cents on the matter are probably predictable:  Volt is shorted stats (speed on both and energy/armor for base Volt), particularly challenging to get much out of by modding, and loaded with shmutter design from a different era of Warframe.

    The stat thing bothers me because he's running around like a glass cannon, but without punch.  He is being touted as a "tactical" Warframe, but he barely has the presence to put one foot in that door (and base Volt lacks the energy pool).  Electrical damage sucks balls, radial procs in general and shock procs specifically recieved a (probably needed) nerf that killed them as a damage option, and a damage cap makes Discharge neither quite tactical nor nuke.  The stuns are neat, but fall short.  Maybe if they opened foes to finishers?

    While I've come to appreciate the subtle differences small tweaks make, I really would like to see a 'Frame somewhat less stuck in the midground for builds.  His rewark helped somewhat, but firmly limited Volt to 2nd-string support.  I might be more okay with this if it were even vaguely possible all 'Frames would be shifted to this standard, but that's not even probable.

    I would like to see 'Frames built to a single standard.  Looking at Trin, I can't help but wish Volt were similarly useful to a team.  Maybe he's not going to be the killframe, but why not a tactical support that can hold his own WELL into Survival?  Why not look at giving him the kind of oomph he needs to drop targets if that's not what he's neant to do?  Or how about we see Riot Shield become USABLE AND USEFUL if he's supposed to actually use it ever?  {Make no mistake, I HAVE Zenurik, maxed out regen and all, and I run ES, AND 170% Efficiency, positive Duration, and 145% Range.  The blasted thing STILL goes through energy like a leech Eximus is nearby, all while slowing me and restricting weapons usage.}

    Point is this:  Volt had too much fun wrung out of him, probably due to the fact that the Devs seem to have liked the thought of reworking Volt about as much as most people like hearing the dentist say "oops!"  He isn't bad, but he isn't good, and we struggle to mod him to be mediocre.  Remember, most of us have HUNDREDS of hours playing Volt, and we may have THOUSANDS of hours in game.  Struggling to achieve mediocrity is an exercise in futility, and I HATE to feel that way about Volt.

    Then again, maybe I just don't "get" the idea of a generalist tactical buff/support high-speed turtle.  A bit schizophrenic for my tastes, even if I still play basically nothing else.

    EDIT:  The "fun wrung out of him" feels more like "modding futility stapled on" now that I think about things, but that's relative.  When you read something like this, just add an "IMO" and let it slide.  I don't require total agreement.

    That comes with Assimilation.

    I personally dislike the idea of him having finisher openings on his abilities, because they are so much slower and less interesting than spastic melee combo spamming. (I get tired of watching the finisher animation repeatedly, on top of it also killing most things slower than I could just mashing E.) But some kind of change would be nice. You're very right, he's a glass cannon with no punch, and a tactician with no real plan.

    It's so frustrating because his core gameplay is almost perfect, but he's so grounded in mediocrity because not being quite as good as he could be, along with his frustrating difficulty to mod.


    8 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

    Speed can be recast now with no interruptions, so you only need a moderately-preserved duration stat on Volt since his rework, assuming Speed is your primary concern and not Shield.  I would only consider slotting NM if was planning on having shields up indefinitely around defense targets.  

    I'm not sure what you're looking for, really.  Do you feel bad for playing Volt because he doesn't have easily game-trivializing tools that more popular warframes have?  When you say things like "Capacitance helps durability but it doesn't matter because Volt is paper either way," are you talking about level 80+, or what?  If they just made Volt overpowered and loaded his kit with gimmicks, would you be happy?  To me, Volt is a celebration of WF's core gameplay.  The stuns, shields, and speed that he offers to the player and teammates are practical and allow skilled players to excel without playing that game for them, which is what warframe design should aspire to.  

    For the record, there is a bit of a quirk with recasting it, where you can't recast it whilst in the middle of an action, such as a melee attack. Even with base Duration, when you are going melee, you often have to wait to refresh speed or stop your combo, and it feels very jarring. Just because I can recast it does not mean I feel like being harassed to press the button all the time.

    I do not feel bad for playing Volt. I love Volt. Volt is very interesting in the fact that his abilities (outside of Discharge) are mechanically flawless when it comes to enhancing the basic play of the game, and, as you mentioned, they are practical and allow you to excel without the game being played for you. I want to preserve that.

    But, if that, as we agree, is what Warframe design should be, then why is he not allowed to be great at that, rather than just mediocre? There are several other Warframes (Nekros, Sayrn, Ember, Nezha, Rhino, Atlas, Banshee, Mag, etc.) who are like that, and are more rewarding from both a thematic and a balance standpoint.

    You can go down with full Vitality, full Redirection, and maxed overshields from Capacitance rather easily against level 40 enemies, provided you eat a stun, which will happen here and there no matter how good you are. Furthermore, level 80 enemies are Sortie level content, and it doesn't seem unreasonable to want to last more than a single hit when taking my favorite frame with six Forma to end game content. Volt IS paper no matter what. The reason he tends to feel rather durable is because we use Electric Shield and CC to flat out prevent damage. The issue is that, like Titania's Dust buff, avoiding damage most of the time does not help you when the attacks that do get through will leave you dead in a few precious seconds.

    Volt was given several gimmicks with his rework, such as Riot Electric Shield and the Shock interactions with Electric Shield and Discharge. Unlike Sayrn, however, they don't actually add anything to his gameplay. Well, technically the shield does, but it's nigh unusable even with maxed efficiency and Zenurik.

  17. 1 minute ago, RealPandemonium said:

    So, because you don't care about Volt's damage and he can't abuse niche mods as readily as others, he isn't satisfying to mod (to you) because his utility is not dependent on specific builds.  Not having "special" mods is not a good or bad thing on its own.  Every frame has a couple of builds and Volt is not exception.  You could even say that Volt has more leeway since you don't need a specific build; you can just put on efficiency mods and and then just slap on anything you want, whether that's more durability, more running speed, extra range, QT+Rage+LifeStrike, etc.  

    Saryn has one build: max range and efficency, add regen molt if you want, and then pack on strength and/or bandaid mods.  

    Equinox maxes efficiency and range, etc, or builds for permaslow with peaceful provocation.  

    There are more gimmicky just-for-fun builds on all frames, but when it comes down to it, frames just have a couple of builds.

    The funny thing is that the frames that DO have dump stats (Loki comes to mind) don't have any more builds; they are merely able to afford more bandaid mods but overall functionality is similar either way.  

    This has nothing to do with a 'to me' problem. I main Volt. I adore him. His current state is 'Ok'. But the only time I ever feel 'Wow, I am as Volt as I can be!' is when I'm running a Speed build. I miss Electric Shield when I'm running on someone other than Volt, and I miss Speed for various reasons, or not at all, depending upon what other frame I am playing. But, when I'm on Volt, I can't make him do anything more. I can't find anything to tinker with. Sometimes I want to just...be Volt but /more/ Volt-esque.

    Shock is a pretty generic 1. It's like Fireball or Smite or Soul Punch or Sonic Boom. It doesn't need significant changes. I am happy with it. It has enough flavor and uniqueness to stand out, but it isn't impressive or amazing, either. That's fine. Not all abilities need to be. Electric Shield is. But I can't make it any better, or any worse. I can't augment it in any way with my playstyle, other than to stack a bunch of them, or to limit myself to certain weapons. I can't do much with Discharge, at all. It's a room stun, but you can more or less, get the same effect by casting Shock twice or using Shocking Speed on a Speed build. Or any other Warframe. Yes, there's Capacitance, which helps a decent amount, but it doesn't provide all that much survivability, since you still go down super easily, and that's the only real point to running it.

    The Speed build stands out as what would be *the* Volt build if it were viable. But it just isn't feasible to try and use it when it counts. Increasing the base duration to 20 or 25 seconds would let you skip a practically mandatory Narrow-Minded, and you'd get to choose whether you wanted to run something like Capacitance or more Power Strength, or even to tack on an extra of Maglev/Rush. That's a huge upgrade from the current status he has when it comes to customization. If you did more, like remove that ridiculous self-slow and the Energy drain on movement when you pick up the shield, even better. You'd have actual synergy when melee with Electric Shield and Speed. If you buffed Speed to 75% base, you could run Overextended and Intensify and still be as good as it is currently. That would add some options. Not a whole lot, since Range is kind of mood, but it's something. You could also make Discharge's range work like Molecular Prime, and cement Range as his dump stat, and Volt would be running maximum Power Strength, Maglev, Rush, Cunning Drift.

    Volt's lack of synergy is less about mechanical issues and the skills' design, and more to do with the fact that we can't do much to bring out the synergy that is already there. What you can already do isn't worth being concerned with.

    If you get even crazier, you can do things like giving him something like Toxic Lash or Accelerant for Electric damage. I mean, having Electric damage be Finisher damage on Tesla Coils? Yes please.

    Or make Electric Shield's Shock enhancement actually relevant. Or make Discharge's Tesla Coil effect spread to those you hit with Shock rather than a pulse of damage.

    As he is now, Volt typically feels like a slower Nezha or a paper Vaklyr with a room stun, or a knock-off Frost. His unique situation is that he does all of those things that they do in a single kit. He just doesn't do any of them in a way that is unique, or that is flat out strong enough to reign supreme.

    He feels cobbled together unless you use a generalist build, and he feels weak as hell when you do.

  18. 1 hour ago, RealPandemonium said:

    So what I'm getting here, is that Volt has to choose between a pretty good Speed, and a really good Speed?  By contrast, what do frames without dump stats like, for example, Saryn or Equinox get that Volt doesn't?  Just because his gaps in specialization aren't as extreme, doesn't mean that he has poor design or suffers in performance as a result.  


    The difference is that ALL of those Warframe's powers change when you mod them, AND that choosing NOT to mod for those powers actually changes your gameplay.

    The only way Volt's gameplay changes or is increased in effectiveness, really, is to run a Speed build. You can offer everything Volt brings to the table just by being on Volt, and you play Volt the same no matter what you run.

    A Volt is a Volt is a Volt. When building a squad, Volt is not good enough to coast off of that fact, and, worse, Volt's own player has no incentive to experiment with his build and find a niche. You pretty much default to the fun Speed build for everything that isn't difficult, and anything difficult, you run whatever generalist build there is because they're all the same. And when you're doing the latter, you probably miss your Speed. Almost all of my build tweaking with Volt has been trying to make Speed viable on difficult content.

    Compare this to Sayrn, where one person could be running a fairly generalist build with Regenerative Molt & Rage, whilst another prefers to run Regenerative Molt & Transient Fortitude. One build gets Energy for casting all of their powers, though it is slightly riskier to use, whilst the other gets more health per each Molt. Both of them increase your Efficiency, in effect, because you either A. Have to cast less to get more health. or B. Gain Energy when you take damage. And this is when comparing /one/ mod difference. What about comparing two? Regenerative Molt, Rage, and Quick Thinking, versus Regenerative Molt, Transient Fortitude, and Steel Fiber?


    I guess, the short version, is that Volt has no capacity for fine-tuning like other generalist frames do, and he does not have the specialization (outside of Speed) that the one-trick ponies do.

  19. 58 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

    That's what I'm talking about.  Little bit of give, little bit of take, but it's not hard to make a generalist build.  People are acting like Volt needs 200+ strength or 200+ duration, which  are both far from essential (especially at the same time.)


    5 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:


    This is a workable build that balances strength and duration.  You can sacrifice some more duration to reach 227% strength for nuking, or you can throw Overextended on there for long range Overloads/Speeds, or w/e.  One more forma would allow you to max the Redirection and w/e else.

    Modding isn't that hard; use your head.  

    I think you guys are missing the point. It isn't that you need 200%+ Strength or 200%+ Duration. It's that you can't build for a whole lot of anything and feel satisfied with how you've tweaked your powers. The only power that you feel actually gets significantly better or worse with your modding is Speed. (Outside of what, obviously, happens when you tank Efficiency, Range, or Duration to extremely low values.) That's why everyone is unhappy. They recognize the merit of generalist builds. They know they can run them. They don't get much out of it. So they want to run Speed.

    Strength doesn't matter all that much to anything other than Speed, since Electric Shield gains nothing, no one cares about the damage on Shock, and Discharge doesn't need much strength, if any, even with Capacitance, since, again, damage is not the main incentive of the power.

    Range doesn't matter all that much outside of Discharge. It can be good in certain situations for the extra long range stun on Discharge and Shock, but that also leads to Discharge breaking earlier than desired, which makes the Range rather moot for it, and Shock can do its job and still stun a large swathe of enemies with base or even negative range.

    Duration matters to speed and Electric Shield, but isn't particularly relevant for anything else. Discharge usually breaks early on most targets, or lasts more than long enough with base or even negative duration.

    Now, several Warframes function like this. Trinity, Nekros, Equinox, Oberon, Sayrn can all run half of their loadout as defensive or utility mods and still feel impactful and unique. All they need is an Intensify or something simple. Then there are the frames like Chroma, or Loki, who have designated dumpstats.

    Volt is neither. If you build generalist, you get Electric Shield and some generic and situational stuns, and Speed is...decent. You build for Speed, and there's nothing in the world that you can do to make it an actually viable build.

    Seeing as how Speed is his signature ability, it'd make a lot more sense if we could actually use it as we want to. Valkyr might have Warcry, and Nezha is slick and sleek and fast, and Chroma has that nift Reload speed. But Volt is the only one to combine those. It's even more silly that Volt's pick up Electric Shield option is only usable with maxed Zenurik and efficiency, which means the one defensive tool to make melee Volt even partially feasible is basically inaccessible to the build that needs it most, unless you dump his four.


  20. It is not an awful weapon. Here's some calculations I did to try and compare them. There is some rounding, typically to the hundredth or tenth, but that shouldn't matter. I also assumed all IPS damage was Impact, because the vast majority of it is, and I'm lazy. It also shouldn't matter.




    Target: Level 140 Heavy Gunner

    78, 708 HP
    13351 Armor

    ~3,581,704 EHP


    Primed Pressure Point, Body Count, Blood Rush, Berserker

    True Steel, Organ Shatter, Fever Strike, North Wind.

    231 IPS

    416 Viral

    40% Critical Chance [205% @ 2.5 Combo Multiplier]

    3.8 Critical Multiplier

    1.46 AS

    2.5% Status Chance

    Net Damage:

    231 IPS * 6.74 Average Critical Damage [6.6 on Red Crit | 9.4 on 2x Red] * 2.5 Combo Multiplier * 1.46 AS = 5682.83 IPS / Second
    416 Viral * 6.74 Average Critical Damage [6.6 on Red Crit | 9.4 on 2x Red] * 2.5 Combo Multiplier * 1.46 AS = 10234 Viral / Second

    TtK: 78,708 / ( (1.75 * 10234) + (.75 * 5682.83) =  3.55 Seconds

    Synoid Heliocor:

    Primed Pressure Point, Body Count, Blood Rush, Berserker

    True Steel, Organ Shatter, Fever Strike, North Wind

    198 IPS

    238 Viral

    16% Critical Chance [82% @ 2.5 Combo Multiplier]

    3.8 Critical Multiplier

    1.75 AS

    20% Status Chance

    Net Damage:

    198 IPS * 3.3 Average Critical Damage [3.8 on Crit | 1.0 on Non-Crit] * 2.5 Combo Multiplier * 1.75 AS = 2858.63 IPS / Second
    238 Viral * 3.3 Average Critical Damage [3.8 on Crit | 1.0 on Non-Crit] * 2.5 Combo Multiplier * 1.75 AS =  3436.13 Viral / Second

    TtK: 78,708 / ( (1.75 * 3436.13) + (.75 * 2858.63) =  7.2375 Seconds on average. (9.65 Seconds with no procs. If immediate proc 4.825. If  proc within 1st second, 5.32. If proc within 2nd second, 5.82. If proc within 3rd second, 6.32...)

    Synoid Heliocor:

    Primed Pressure Point, Body Count, Weeping Wounds, Berserker

    Primed Fury,  Virulent Scourge, Fever Strike, Spoiled Strike

    318 IPS

    477 Toxin

    10% Critical Chance

    2.0 Critical Multiplier

    2.1 AS

    32%  Status Chance [68% @ 2.5 Combo Multiplier]

    Net Damage:

    318 IPS * 1.1 Average Critical Damage [2.0 on Crit | 1.0 on Non-Crit] * 2.5 Combo Multiplier * 2.1 AS = 1836.45 IPS / Second
    477 Toxin * 1.1 Average Critical Damage [2.0 On Crit | 1.0 on Non-Crit] * 2.5 Combo Multiplier * 2.1 AS * 1.17 Toxin Status Initial Proc Damage Multiplier [50% Bonus on Proc | 0% Bonus on Non-Proc] =  3222.97 Toxin / Second

    468.29 damage from procs each second for eight seconds. Since you can have multiple procs attacking each second, you should receive a total average damage dealt equivalent to 1639.02* DPS.

    TtK: 78,708 / ( (1.0 * 3222.97) + (.75 * 1836.45) + STATUS* = 17.11 seconds with only accounting for up front damage. 12.61 if accounting for the DoT dealt.

    Status damage calculations may not be accurate. I'm tired at the moment and can't figure out how to account for this, though I think I did it correctly.

    For the record, I chose Toxin damage for this to see if the stacking of a damaging status proc (since Heat status does not seem to stack), could somehow make up for the loss in critical damage, as it already lost with the optimal elemental combination.


    Even factoring in the increased effectiveness of Primed Fury on it relative to the regular Heliocor, and the increased Channeling damage, it cannot be redeemed with any conceivable mod loadout.

    As expected, the Synoid Heliocor is significantly worse against unarmored targets. But, again, this is only on unarmored targets, or those with shields.

    There's some number crunching required to see if the Synoid Heliocor can outdo the regular Heliocor on armored targets, and I am pretty confident that it can, seeing as how it only lagged behind a few seconds with the proper elemental combination against an unarmored one. I was going to do them now, but life has gotten in the way. Therefore, I'll run those after awhile, and post my results in this thread.


  21. 5 minutes ago, KaizergidorahXi said:

    I main Speed Volt, and I can use speed almost all the time without having to stop and grab energy, even with Shocking Speed taking up a mod slot. I think he's fine the way he is.

    It's not Speed Volt who needs the duration to be buffed. It's every other Volt build which wants to use all four powers that needs it to be buffed.

    To a certain extent, modding Volt is a lost cause. You're always lacking something that is critical to functioning. All you can really do is move around your glaring weaknesses. It'd help him out quite a bit if you had more leeway.

  22. 1 hour ago, PoisonHD said:

    Not really.... His augment is kind of bad at even mid-level...

    Shocking Speed is actually one of the best augments in the game. AoE stun field around you is very handy. That said, to respond to OP, just because one builds for Speed does not mean they include the augment.

    It would be nice if the buffed the base duration to at least 15 seconds, though. It is punishingly short at the present.

  23. 9 minutes ago, Snowbluff said:

    Not even a 10% crit chance.

    Calling it now. I'm pretty sure these weapons are garbage. I was hoping for a Rakta Dark Split Sword, but I guess that confusion was cleared up real quick.

    The Rakta Dark Dagger is niche, but very usable (as all Daggers are) thanks to Covert Lethality. That, and innate Radiation damage makes Corrosive + Cold/Heat/Blast attractive, especially if the rumors that it can use Gleaming Blight are true. (I am about to buy it, but have been collecting the others first, since I have 100k+ Standing and everything else Red Veil sells.)

    The Telos Boltace are definitely endgame viable, as is the Synoid Heliocor. The Sancti Magistar likely is, as well. The Sydon can hold its own there, as well.

    The Secura Lecta, however, has the worst stats, passive, and options out of all the Syndicate melee weapons. And, unfortunately, it was the one I was most excited for.

  24. Synoid Simulor...MORE user friendly? Is that possible? I'm pretty certain I could drop a cat on my mouse and it could still clear T4 Exterminate if it fell asleep halfway through.

    The main reason people are so negative towards this topic is because the Synoid Simulor is a top tier weapon with almost no drawbacks. Its amazing status chance allows it to scale to high level enemies, it packs a huge area of effect, significant damage, extremely efficient ammo economy, and comes with two forms of innate CC. If anything, the weapon needs nerfed or reworked. Not huge buffs like these.

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