YagoXiten
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Posts posted by YagoXiten
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Title. PM YagoXiten
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3 hours ago, Chipputer said:
Have you... used Nekros before? The shadows you summon aren't much more powerful than the enemies you're throwing them against.
Right, so arbitrarily forcing the Nekros to press the 4 key every 30 seconds is okay as long as you use two utility mods to speed up the animation it locks you in.
I know exactly who to exclude from any serious balance discussions.
I have hundreds of hours on Nekros and I've never run a Desecrate build. I've always run SotD / tank Nekros.
With not having to spam Desecrate, Terrify and Soul Punch's QoL cast time tweaks they did forever ago, and the current cast time reduction on SotD for healing your Shadows, you don't absolutely need those two utility mods.
And it's certainly not arbitrary. My Shadows can and do kill enemies. It's not quite as effective as WoF, but they're always going to be stronger than the enemies you are fighting, so, yes, it might take awhile, but you could legitimately defend an Interception point without having to cast it a bunch.
Ad hominems do not help your arguments, and do not a discussion make. -
39 minutes ago, Chipputer said:
How, exactly? The shadows are intended to absorb incoming fire and fight back along with Nekros. You will already be constantly refreshing your shadows after every encounter. Adding in decaying health means that they literally take damage from enemies, take unavoidable damage over time, and force the Nekros to stop every 30 seconds (+/- based on your duration stat) to lock himself into an animation that breaks the flow of combat and can cause the player to take damage they otherwise wouldn't have without the unnecessary health drain over time.
In the normal flow of Nekros play I fail to see how decaying health increases player input in any other way than arbitrarily.
Because you'd be able to summon an army on an Interception mission and then go make a sandwich. The animation reduction on the heal makes it pretty negligible, especially with Natural Talent and Speed Drift.
35 minutes ago, (PS4)B_Psycho2 said:Precisely. There's no reason for it, why take the time to argue for something that you in your heart, don't like?
Nobody wants Health Decay on their Shadows.
Nobody wants a limit on loki's invis, yeah, but that's different, since being invisible forever is a balance problem.
Having 7 nondecaying allies is not a problem, otherwise they wouldn't allow you to have a whole bunch of Specters alive at once.
Because I like the health decay and agree it should be there. It would be very boring if it were a button I hit once per mission or on the occasion one happens to die. I enjoy having to care about and invest in my minions.
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1 hour ago, (PS4)B_Psycho2 said:
This is a thread discussing Nekros, and the fact that decaying health does not need to exist.
That's a part of his 4, and the amount of shadows being needed to 7 is also a part of his 4. It's close enough to the point where you shouldn't care.
Anyways, the point is this is a mistake by DE. DE is alright, they can make mistakes, but blindly defending mistakes won't cause needed change to occur.
We're not going to riot about this, but we're the players, and this is our game, as a community. DE and the players are working together to keep the game good.
So, if you think Decaying health is good, fine. But if you think it's absolutely necessary, you don't know what game balance is.
Warframes can clear rooms, turn invisible indefinitely, turn enemies against one another, remove weapons permanently,
And people think it's a problem to be able to summon 7 specters that don't passively rot. That's wrong.
I do care, because arguing about a point that is not relevant to discussion clogs the thread.
Defending a design decision that you disagree with does not mean that the defense is done 'blindly'. DE has made plenty of mistakes and I've discussed them both privately and publicly on these forums. This is not one of them.
It's not that I think decaying health is necessary, either. It isn't, and I don't think it would horribly unbalance the game or any such thing if it were removed. It would, however, lower player input considerably which is something that they were trying to move away from with these changes. But with all that said, the discussion is whether or not it is a nerf to have it. And it is not a nerf. It is a tweak, and has its advantages and its disadvantages. But, overall, the power has not been weakened by having the health decay aspect to it. If you have not noticed, they've made quite a few changes lately to try and make Warframes more balanced, and I imagine that the Nekros changes are made to bring him to near what they are establishing as the baseline, rather than to the absurd level of the outliers that dominate the metagame. -
2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:
Given how much people complain, the lack of complaints on this matter indicates to me that it if it does happen it's happening to people attempting to play the game with less than minimum specs. Things that affect gameplay shouldn't be balanced around people who can't even meet minimum specs.
Then it should have been stated as such, far better than passing it off as a performance change.
I don't see how that makes it justified.
Just because there aren't complaints here on the forums does not mean it was not an issue. It's justified if you assume that the developers are making rational decisions, since, after all, the evidence that caused the change is holistic and based upon things that players such as ourselves would not have access to. And balance decisions such as these can and should absolutely be based upon those with lesser PC specs to a certain degree, or you essentially throw away the support of thousands of players by denying them access. It's not hard to imagine how a Shield of Shadows Nekros summoning four Nullifiers along with eleven other enemies could cause some performance issues. Especially not when you consider this could be combined with the Void tileset, a Thunderbolt Attica Mirage, a Nezha with a Synoid Simulor, and P4tW Ember rocking an Atomos. It's not like this change was completely out there.
At any rate, once again, if they failed to balance appropriately given the changes to reduce Shadow count, then that does absolutely need addressed. But this is not the thread for it. -
42 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:
There are two main issues.
1) The damage and health multipliers were not raised enough to compensate for the minion cap, since now the ability does less damage in total than it did before the change.
2) The ability now decays in effectiveness over time, even outside of combat, on top of becoming potentially weaker as time passes via Shadows getting damaged or killed directly by enemies.
Whilst the first is probably true, that's not an issue with the decay. The second, however, is a not much of a point. Their duration used to tick down outside of combat before, and you'd end up either having to cast it again after they fell in the middle of the fray, or wait until they expired to recast. That's actually gotten more favorable with the changes, since now you don't have to have downtime in combat where you lose your meat shields / Shield of Shadows. The Shadows getting killed has more to do with their increased aggro draw and the fact that there are less available targets to distribute the damage across, and a lot less to do with the decay. Shadows of the Dead is an ability which is hard to appreciate and understand, as much of it is not psychologically tactile. This is similar to how people vastly underestimate how large the final amount of money received is in the double a penny every day for a month riddle. Issues with Shadows of the Dead are more than likely your build and your perceptions than with the actual ability.
30 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:But were they? For over 2 years now it's been possible to summon 15 shadows and I haven't seen any threads saying that the Shadows cause people lag.
Regardless of whether they do or not you can take a squad of 4 people are summon 28 shadows. Assuming that it really is performance issues then surely we shouldn't be allowed to do that. If 7 is the limit for performance reasons, why are more Nekros's allowed to summon more?
I suppose you could argue that it's 7 per person, and the actual limit is 28 (56 in a raid) shadows, but I'd point out that that's more than what a single Nekros used to be able to do, and there was never more than one Nekros. Even if there is it's player choice, if you know you're going to have performance issues if you and the other Nekros cast SotD then simply don't cast.
TL;DR The minion count change wasn't justified.
Just because you haven't seen people complain about the lag does not mean it hasn't happened, whether to players with lower end PCs, those on consoles, or perhaps it's less about player lag and more about the issues it could have been having under the hood code wise which stifled their future design space. Or perhaps it's because the number of Shadows you could summon got to the point where you couldn't actually see to target your enemies in corridors. And that's an issue I had seen complaints about, and had issue with on occasion personally, especially with Nullifier Shadows. At any rate, it's a change that was made from the business perspective and not the balance perspective, and whatever DE changed it for, they came to that conclusion for a reason, and they attempted to compensate for the change balance wise. If they failed to do so, then they failed to do so and that needs addressed. But that's not the main point of this thread.
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9 minutes ago, (PS4)B_Psycho2 said:
The decay is a factor in the problem for low levels, giving enemies an edge.
It's more of a problem in high-end content, where they can lose millions of health in ten seconds.
And don't forget that this is an ultimate ability. It needs to be good.
Then most likely it's because you've tanked your Duration.
It is an ultimate ability, and it is good. I fail to see the issue. -
Just now, (PS4)B_Psycho2 said:
You're kidding, right?
At the beginning of the game, enemies kill one another so fast that the shadows will instantly die unless you spam recasting.
At the end of the game, at around level one hundred, they won't be doing anything besides giving you damage reduction THAT REQUIRES AN AUGMENT. the base ability should be useful through "all levels of content" without them getting reduced to mobile decoys.
If enemies kill one another so fast that the Shadows die instantly, then the problem is clearly the lack of health on the minions, and not the decay. Ergo, the decay is not a problem.
Seven mobile decoys is actually significant damage mitigation without the augment since they can and do block things like Bombard rockets aimed for Nekros, on top of drawing fire themselves. Their damage scales very well against non-Grineer enemies, and you can make them deal significant damage to Grineer enemies with the usage of Power Strength, Corrosive Projection, Terrify, etc. And it's essentially free damage, since they provide other powerful effects with their aggro manipulation and damage mitigation. And this is sans augment, which is extremely powerful in a vacuum, and even more so with everything considered. -
This is hilarious.
The minion count changes were justified, ignoring whether or not the scaling buff was enough of a compensation--but the health decay changes are in no way shape or form a nerf. You get a longer base duration at all values of Power Duration than before. Yes, you're going to probably have to recast it to heal them, but you often have a reduced cast animation for doing so, and you would have likely done so to mitigate the damage enemies deal far before the decay's effects were anywhere near significant. Whilst it's true that this is going to be affected by the fact that outside damage sources skew their lives on the significantly shorter side when you tank the stat, why are you doing so? You don't need to run Fleeting Expertise or Transient Fortitude, let alone the two together. Nekros has infinite energy, virtually infinite health, access to some of the highest EHP in the game, powers that scale through all levels of content...He's at the strongest he's ever been. I'm honestly baffled this is being decried. My guess is that people underestimated how much damage their Shadows took before and now that they can recast it to heal they believe it is the decay that is making them cast it so often.
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I talked to Rebecca and she said she will be play Volt this weekend to add notes. So he will hopefully see some changes next week. I also linked her to my concise feedback post on page fifteen.
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7 hours ago, Culaio said:
AH, so this is why speed ability feels so much slower then before. I was wondering why since "rework" speed didnt "feel" fast anymore even though there was no mention by DE of decreasing its speed
Actually, they haven't decreased its speed. It hasn't affected parkour since Parkour 2.0 came out. The FoV change is more than likely why you feel less fast.
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19 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:
What if DE is worried about power teams? What if Volt can be used to lock down maps like Mirage could, and that's why they allow enemies to pop out of the stun from discharge...?
With Radial Blind, Prism, Radial (Irradiating) Disarm, Chaos, Rhino Stomp, Molecular Prime...and so many other abilities being able to do that rather well, I don't think that's the issue.
I'm of the opinion that they wanted the damage to be the highlight of the power, as it does do insane damage for an ability, with some respectable CC attached, similar to Frost's Avalanche, but it is tuned such that it does not do enough damage to be impactful on all targets during mid and end game missions and the CC can also end on many enemies before you're even free of the casting animation.32 minutes ago, Ohmlink said:I'll add my tidbit:
Riot Shield
As others have stated riot shield has too many downsides to be a valid option. Energy drain is simply too high to be used longer than a few seconds the fact that we have other abilities that are allowed full god mode while also being more efficient seems silly to me personally.
When picking up the shield the time should either pause or stop energy drain, there is no need for both and it simply makes the skill affected by too many things.
Another solution when the health cap is reached the target simply does not receive damage and they are still held in place by Discharge. So if you do mange to get a stellar cast your enemies aren't released in a few seconds.
My build was the basic neutral build with no corrupted mods nor primed mods. I wanted it to be as vanllia as possible.
It definitely is somewhat silly. Even if they're intending to remove such 'god mode' abilities so that they can rebalance the damage system so that combat is less 'you have one second to do or die', and more of a skill based system with steady and calculated give and take, Volt's Electric Shield would still be balanced without all the restrictions and the huge cost.
The neutral build with no corrupted mods is a very powerful build option, and one I generally endorse. Volt, however, is not like Equinox, Ivara, Trinity, etc. and has a hard time getting away with that, which is a shame, because it'd be quite nice if he could. Though his base energy costs are low (25/25/50/100) compared to the usual (25/50/75/100), he generally has to make liberal use of Shock and Electric Shield, wants 100% uptime on Speed, and needs to be able to afford the occasional Discharge. This greatly cuts into his Energy pool, and is made even worse by the very low base duration on Speed, the absurd cost of picking up Electric Shield. It's worse still if you want to run a melee Volt, who wants to boost his Strength to keep up with other DPS boosting abilities like Vex Armor...You end up having to run Corrupted mods just to patch up his abilities' base values. -
19 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:
Is this a thread about volt feedback or about analyzing the structures of long writings?
Don't get me wrong, i'd also have appreciated a TL;DR very much and/or a shorter text overall. But it doesn't make his arguments obsolete. In fact, he gave some pretty good feedback regarding this and i can only agree about what he said. Most importantly the damage cap of the ult and the overwhelming amount of drawbacks concerning the Riot Shield.
It definitely isn't a thread on analyzing the structure of long writings, and we should get back on topic. There hasn't been much new discussion going on here lately.
It's not the cap on the damage that matters for Discharge. It's that the CC is tied to the damage. This prevents it from being reliable, and that is the problem. Whilst it would be nice to have the damage scale up against all enemies, we have weapons to kill things. -
I saw I couldn't log in and was hoping for some sort of patch buffing Volt.
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28 minutes ago, Toramaru said:
And we already had that sir. The rework itself added no scalability. And that what Volt needs most, imho.
I always build Speed and even so, many times I find Volt lacking. I already posted my build here, you'll see I completely neglect the other skills. No point in using shield as a melee oriented build, since being mobile is the only survivability that build offers.
Forgive me, I only mentioned damage there because many of the complaints with scalability issues in this thread have been strictly about damage. Volt does have other features, though, that scale. His CC on Shock scales well, as does the CC on Discharge. Though this was the case before the rework for Shock, Discharge is a more effective CC option than Overload used to be. I will admit this does still need significant improvement due to presently being inconsistent, it is still an addition. The Riot Electric Shield also adds quite a lot of scaling survivability, and that is a new feature as well. The problem is that it's currently too expensive. In conclusion, Volt is in a good spot mechanically. He has everything he needs in his kit. He just needs some numerical tweaks, or perhaps a few slight mechanical tweaks, to really shine and use what he has.
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41 minutes ago, Toramaru said:
No signs of scaling gentlemen. It leads us to think that either DE has something in mind that won't need scaling as we see it, or they flat out couldn't care less for Volt on the end game.
Damaging abilities do not need to scale for the Warframe to scale. Speed acts as a DPS increase, and a rather nice one at that, and so does Electric Shield.
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15 minutes ago, Aquasurge said:
this is what i mean.
Well, they didn't mention Volt. But...I don't think the Energy cost on picking up the Electric Shield is a bug. So I don't know if we can expect to see that changed. Still, here's to hoping!
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2 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:
Shock is a better damage ability than Discharge. Overload's damage potential increased without limit when many enemies were clustered together, while Discharge's bonus damage from grouped-up enemies is artificially capped by a coded-in limit to the power. It's also currently being abused to permaCC whole tiles of high level Grineer, while against the other factions both its damage and CC are artificially limited by the health cap.
Discharge's damage potential is actually quite amazing. It's capped because the damage potential rises exponentially and without that cap could realistically hit values that are three or more times more DPS than our best T4 weapon's damage potentials. Even capped, the damage it can deal in realistic scenarios can compete with pre-rework Sayrn's Miasma. What holds the damage back from being higher is that it is Electric damage, and that damage is just not what really matters for our powers.
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10 minutes ago, Cytobel said:
FYI, I've been working on building something that can at least somewhat use ALL of it's moves. When I say it WORKS that is largely what I'm talking about, not that this is good.
At Sortie levels this thing comes apart, reguardless of what I try. I'm moving onto other builds and adding other survival elements. I'm closer to something that'll handle higher-end play, but there are some issues with the rework that need to be ironed out before Volt scales right.
Don't forget we're gonna have Damage 3.0 drop soon-ish, so things are shifting around on that side as well. Hell, Electricity may be worth half a damn soon, and Volt COULD wind up doing decent damage. Anything's possible. Until then, it's more about scraping by on what we have.
I'm hoping Damage 3.0 adds either % missing health, % maximum health, or % current health damage to most nuke abilities. Because otherwise, they just aren't going to scale. Even when they do scale amazingly well, they tend to be very boring easy room clears. Until then, damage is the last thing I'm concerned about with the rework. I really build Strength for Speed. It just happens to be a bonus that I can kill things decently with a few casts of Shock instead of a dozen.
EDIT: I also think you can take Volt into Sortie's with pretty much any build if your weapons are up to snuff and you've got solid teamwork. Though it will definitely be difficult.
On 5/28/2016 at 2:41 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:It bears repeating that more changes are coming soon. We will be hotfixing like mad next week
-[DE]Rebecca
That was said on Saturday. Since Volt's almost in a really good spot, we can probably expect to see some changes to him in the next couple of days.
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46 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:
Merging all feedback into the megathread is a bad idea, since it results in a massive jumble of uninformed opinions and shrill, caustic complaints that make posting reasonable feedback an uphill battle. I could have posted a legitimate feedback thread that addresses a specific issue, but there's no point if it's gonna be moved into this mess and overlooked by most readers. When there are 18 posts of deranged non-feedback or feedback made without sufficient game knowledge/experience for every reasonable post, the reasonable post is going to get very little attention or discussion. Letting everyone have their own threads at least could allow for some focused ideas to be exposed in a meaningful way.
Whilst that's definitely an issue, myself and several others have done a pretty good job, I feel, of keeping the feedback relevant to the present and grounded in reason.
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13 hours ago, Kedai said:
After carefully watching this thread evolve, I'd have to say everyone coming into here to either post or catch up should seriously consider reading everything YagoXiten has posted on the topic and upvoting it if you agree. It echoes a lot of the feedback, albeit more concisely and eloquently, that I've seen from the majority of people posting, myself included.
Let's get this seen so we aren't right back here next week after the inevitable hotfixing.
My only addition to whats been said already is about the passive, which I highlighted in my own post way back on page 4. I do not personally like that it actively discourages you from being airborne or performing parkour and it's excuse follows scientific theory that is no longer up to date. The current theory is that friction only increases the effect of a static charge but can be generated regardless, Static Electricity by LiveScience. So I'm sure for the sake of gameplay this could be altered in a way that both makes sense and is fun if by only from the simple change of accumulating it while in any motion.
Thank you for the support. I just want the same thing that everyone else here does: To see Volt in a healthy and balanced state.
I don't mind that his passive discourages parkour per se, because if it didn't discharge at such low values it'd still be completely usable. We might spend a lot of time doing parkour, but we still do spend a lot of time on the ground as well.12 hours ago, Cytobel said:So, after all this playtesting this weekend, I've got a Volt that works. He lacks the survivability or scaling elements to go for any length at sortie levels, and he is not able to support the silly carry cost for the shields (meaning I can't make use of the only thing I've seen that COULD let him Sortie or Raid, MAYBE), but this works.
The build:
Please note: Arcane Storm Helmet. If you don't have Arcane helmets, you're not gonna get that last bit of power strength. Personally, I'm not too sure it's that critical, but it is what it is.
I'm still suffering the issues caused by very poor synergy between Speed, the passive, and everything else he does. If that passive added power strength, it'd be PERFECT for Speed, and I think it MIGHT pull him together. With that and a no-drain or VERY LOW drain to carry Riot Shield, Volt would have what he REQUIRES to survive at higher levels without Arcane Grace (insert extremely salty comment about old arcane helmets and new helmet/syandana arcanes here).
I've been up for around 24 hours now, a solid portion of that messing with Volt. I'm burned out. Good sleep time to all.
I've tried running a number of different builds, and so far, I've had a hard time finding ones that make me entirely happy. My previous builds still work fine, they just can't utilize the new features very well, as they run Narrow Minded for Speed and Electric Shield (which is still too expensive). The build I've had the most fun with since the rework is an altered version of my melee build, and it also ends up tanking range and basically removing Discharge from my available options. That said, since the CC is often unreliable even with Range and I have weapons capable of dealing far more damage, I don't mind too much. Still kind of a shame, though.
1 hour ago, Baigan said:I have a couple suggestions that could prove interesting, so I'll throw my 2cents in.
First one being that a charged Electric Shield to proc electricity on contact, working as sort of electric fence deterrent to coming enemies.
Another that his passive damage affect his Shocking Speed augment, would make for a very interesting play style and open up a speed focused build possibility.
Finally, Speed is the only power that doesn't synergiezes with the rest of his kit, no interaction with the other 3 powers. Would be nice to see some function added here. Follows a couple suggestions:
-Going thru an Electric Shield while speed is active super charges and launches Volt towards the shield's facing (rhino charge/slash dash style) dealing electric damage and stunning enemies.
-Touching a Tesla Coil with speed active charges Volt to become a Tesla Coil himself for the remainder of the duration of speed.
-Lastly, casting Shock with Speed active gives gives Volt a buff which increases the Speed his damage increase passive accumulates for the remainder of Speed's duration.
Any thoughts? :)
Speed has synergy with the rest of Volt's kit, and it always has. This has only been buffed and reinforced with the buff to Reload Speed and the Riot Electric Shield option. Remember that synergy is merely when abilities work together well to create a stronger kit, and not when there is forced interaction. Sometimes synergy can come from forced interactions, but it's also sometimes intrinsic to the base mechanics that the skills have and the overarching game play patterns within the game.
Speed allows you to quickly move between Electric Shield fortified locations, increases your effective DPS time whilst shooting from behind one, provides Volt with improved evasive abilities, and allows him to make better use of Shock's short CC time, and utilize Overload's point-blank AoE casting paradigm without missing a beat. To be honest, the ability is so well-rounded and generally useful that Speed would be synergistic and a welcome addition to almost any Warframe kit. It needs no changes other than some value tweaks, such as increasing its base Duration to make modding him more feasible.
That's pretty true of Volt as a whole, to be honest. He's very close to being the best designed Warframe in the game after this rework. He just needs to be able to actually use his Riot Electric Shield and his Discharge ability, and he'd be set.
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46 minutes ago, Littleman88 said:
The problem is most people consider actually effective mechanics "cheese." Homing missiles? Fair as hell... people can't seem to figure out how to avoid them. Grappling hooks? The fact that the scorpion is 100% accurate makes these easy to feint and dodge. There's even a mod that negates the actual threat of getting hooked - handspring. You'll be back up before the drag even begins.
I made a thread a LONG time ago in this vein though (as well as suggesting how to change armor mechanics to something more engaging) - Enemy Escalation
As usual, anything actually trying to be constructive gets low traffic though. People would rather complain.
You're very much missing the point as to why Bombard rockets are cheese. It's not that they're hard to dodge. It's that a single slight mistake is instant death if a rocket is incoming. Either to the sheer amount of damage they do, or the Blast proc they occasionally cause which sets you up for other enemies or even more rockets. To make matters worse, there can be multiple Bombards at one time and they can even spawn behind you, which is deadly as the rockets are silent. They also have a 270 degree but otherwise infinite homing range, so even the best Tenno occasionally thinks they have lost a rocket only to have it hunt them down from behind later. Grappling hooks are are subject to similar frustrations that rockets are, in that you can be hit from behind and set up for an instant death before you even knew it was coming. Oh, and Handspring is a band-aid mod. It does not allow you additional measures to avoid frustrating cheese, it just simply reduces its effectiveness. But you can still definitely die to with it.
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Just now, Voidwielder said:
I didn't mean them to fix it now, just a suggestion if they ever think about give him a second rework on 1 ability :)
I know, and it's always nice to see the creative endeavors of other players. That said, this is the thread for Volt players addressing his state at this moment, and such posts are somewhat off topic.
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59 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said:
Would be neat! And we would know that the community is not getting neglected. I feel very strongly for my ideas! Also, I think someone has a clipboard and is noting everything that's being said in this thread...
I've read every page on this thread and have kept up with it. I'm sure many of DE's staff have done so for themselves, personally. And I'm sure the main team has done so, professionally.
56 minutes ago, Voidwielder said:Discharge: I have something in mind: First of all, make it's able to cast mid air activate immediately when touch the ground, it will form a electrical sphere around you, deflect incoming damage, stun nearby enemy. Then, it should work like this: Hold the ability button to burn your energy (20/15/10/5 energy point, fix number) dealing (100/200/300/400) damage on health, alive enemy will turn into a tesla coil that zap nearby enemy (1/2/3/4 times).
Keep in mind that such massive reworks aren't going to happen, especially not after a big rework having just been done. To do so would require an immense amount of programming to be redone, not to mention art assets, rebalancing, internal playtesting, etc. It really isn't feasible for them to do much more than change values or make minor mechanical tweaks which include things like: adding status chance, basing Discharge expansion range on Duration, adding Energy refund for casting Shock on Electric Shield, etc. Keep your feet on the ground, and your head out of the clouds. I'm not saying this to stifle creative spirit, just to remind everyone to focus on providing feedback that they can use in the present.
Quickthinking still staggers...why?
in Warframes
Posted
Flat stat boost mods are not a problem for the balance of the game. The problem is a lack of diversity and competition among such mods.
Quick Thinking does not make you a 'wee bit weaker' when you should be dead. It is a death sentence in and of itself. Quick Thinking provides the most damage mitigation when you have a large energy pool, a high armor value, regeneration (such as from Arcane Grace, Oberon's Renewal or Sayrn's Regenerative Molt Augment), or all of the above. If you do not have this, you will get staggered, most likely repeatedly, and you will die. When you are revived by your team, you are also out of Energy.
The cases where Quick Thinking grants you effective HP that you actually get to use are the cases where you could have easily avoided death, anyways, whether through using your powers, or running another defensive mod, like Redirection, Vitality, Vigor, Steel Fiber, or an augment like Shield of Shadows. No one cares about stacking Quick Thinking with Redirection to make squishy frames tanky, because you can solo pretty much every normal mission in the game on a squishy frame without using your powers or any mods at all, and it's certainly not difficult to do it with a fully modded frame, glass cannon build or no.
What people care about is that there are Warframes like Hydroid, Volt, Mirage, Titania, Oberon, etc. who have utterly awful defensive options when it comes to Sortie level content. All of them have tricks up their sleeve that can let them avoid taking damage, but they have no way to prevent immediately getting downed when they fail to dodge an attack from a high level enemy. To a certain extent, this is the player's fault. That said, compare the defensive abilities of say, Volt, to Rhino. Even if Rhino's Iron Skin can fall almost immediately, he's granted a guaranteed three seconds of invulnerability, a shield which scales based upon the damage he took, and his defensive mods like Steel Fiber. He can rather easily refresh it with an augment, and he has an armor and health stat high enough that even if he is hit by a high level enemy attack he isn't guaranteed to go down. He can make use of Rage and Life Strike to keep him in the fight a little longer if need be. Volt, on the other hand, has to spend an absurd amount of energy trying to carry around an Electric Shield, or placing many of them and trying to either barricade himself in a corner or weave between them, and spamming Shock for mini-stuns (which Ancient Healers basically rule out in many cases), and his awful CC on Discharge. Even with Capacitance, Redirection, Vitality, Rage, Primed Flow, and Quick Thinking, Volt can be downed by a single Corrupted Crewman on Mot within mere seconds. And Volt Prime has an amazing Energy pool, a very large shield, and decent health and armor for a squishy.
The effect that just Vitality has on a frame like Rhino is so disproportionate to the benefit that the caster frames get from running Redirection AND Vitality, that people want some sort of alternative to prevent the frustration of playing carefully for twenty minutes only to get instantly killed by a single Bombard that snuck up on you. They're fine with it being high risk, because those frames are squishy for a reason. No one wants it to be overpowered. They just want it to be competitive. Using Quick Thinking on a CC frame like Titania to protect you when you cannot fully lock down the fray should be an option, so that the game is not about who can one shot who first. Currently, however, you're better off slotting in anything else, since all Quick Thinking will do is save you from some embarrassing deaths on missions no one cares about, or drain all your Energy and THEN get you killed at the worst possible time on the missions people do care about.
Quick Thinking should absolutely have the stagger removed. Don't get me wrong, I love my Volt Prime to pieces, but it gets tiring watching frames like Valkyr or Rhino or Wukong or Nezha or Inaros recklessly going toe to toe with level seventy enemies no problem when you can get instantly killed for making the slightest mistake.
Also, Nekros can already do this. His damage mitigation with Shield of Shadows and Health Conversion is so high that he is basically immune to Quick Thinking's stagger. And damage in general, so I'm not sure why you'd need more mitigation. That's actually the big thing to take away from this. Even if you remove Quick Thinking's stagger, no one who is already absurdly hard to kill is going to start using it to become even more absurdly hard to kill. They're already more than capable of being essentially immortal.