YagoXiten
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Posts posted by YagoXiten
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8 minutes ago, Kedai said:
Is English not your native language? I only ask because so far, the only thing I haven't agreed with you on is your terminology (not content, I can't stress that enough) and your desire for just one prevalent build to be designed around. The scalibility issue is something I whole heartedly agree with and I would hope that's why Volt was even considered for a change at all, I also feel like they dropped the ball with it.
None of what I wrote had the intention of being rude, at any point.
Damage is only one factor that most are looking at and also, how did you achieve this, through abilities alone? No melee, no guns? In my opinion the real issue with this rework is all the new limiting factors working in concert, such as his passive discouraging parkour or any sort of airborne maneuver, his riot shield discouraging mobility when the shield was static to begin with.
I can't even imagine how people expect to use the riot shield mechanic without running on Volt Prime or next to a EV Trinity, if an ability is designed around an upgraded frame, or a completely different one holding your hand... that's just bad design.
The formula used is Meters per Energy = 1 / (1-X) where X is your efficiency percentage written as a decimal. (When you have negative efficiency it is -(1 / (1-X). The Energy drain per second is the same as a standard toggle ability. You will need both high efficiency and a good duration to keep it held for very long.
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2 minutes ago, Serien5 said:
I don't get what people are complaining about - he's awesome! I did 70% of the damage in the long defense with a mag and a mirage with tonkor in my group.
I love how his abilities synergise so well. Charging the shields with shock seemed to kill any enemies that got too close. I also really like how the new shields look compared to the old ones. His first ability seems way stronger than it used to be. 4th is good in combo with the 1st too. I like how I don't have to aim his 1st ability precisely now.
Really really fun to play; even more so than before.
Did you play Volt much before? Shock was entirely unchanged. aside from its interaction with Electric Shield and Discharge (formerly Overload) being added.
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Just now, madhatter10 said:
Ah ok. I was a bit irritated because the wiki description says right after that: " Every meter that Volt runs adds +1 to Volt's next damaging ability cast, up to 1000 "
The patch has not been out long. Do not trust the Wiki yet.
I will be running my own tests in the meantime. -
1 minute ago, madhatter10 said:
Regarding the passive:
Is it intended that the counter resets when I fire a gun, since the description states, that it only affects volts damaging abilities?
It says 'next attack'. It works on abilities, weapons, etc. -
1 minute ago, ThumpumGood said:
Now you're being a troll and arguing just to argue. Im done with you. You are obviously a d- player who wants to feel competitive even if that means doing it artificially instead of becoming a better player. Moving away from the process that made the game popular by nerfing things to make weak players feel better is what kills games. I'm not an A+ player and IM not good enough to ever be. But I sure dont want to ruin a game by ruining it for people who are. Those are the people I learn from and when they go away, the game goes into a death spiral. And Im going to continually sound the alarm so that it doesnt happen to this one.
Directly to DE: Do what you did to make the game popular in the first place and stop listening to the people who keep screaming for nerfs. They want things that go against what made the game popular in the first place. You had a good idea or the game wouldnt have gotten this far. If you need people to test the game before making it live, then get some people and do that. But dont release it and then nerf it. If you release it, leave it. (exception being game breaking exploits)I'm definitely not a weak player, but you're welcome to believe what you will. I COULD do 180 minute runs. It's just entirely pointless and beyond the scope of balance and reason, and so it's completely silly to do so. I don't get a greater reward for it. Well, more Prime drop chances. But I don't really care about that, and don't need to do that.
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2 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:
Trivializing content with CC???? You speak like some one who hasnt done 180 minutes. Seriously, go do 180 minutes and get back to me on how good CC is at that point. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. You're talking like the end game stuff is at 20-40 minutes. Stop ruining the game for those of us who like to push the boundaries and see how far we can go.
Why would I do 180 minutes? It'd stop being challenging and start being tedious well before that. First it'd be tedious because of no difficulty, and then tedious because all of the difficulty is in one shots or gimmicks. I'd have to use Warframes and weapons that I don't like, and have a group, when I prefer to play solo or with a good friend of mine.
It's not that I can't, or that I misunderstand. It's that you have no reason to do runs that long, and the game isn't balanced for that. I assure you that you can still do runs that long.
People always act like we've killed the two hour plus club with nerfs, but people still constantly talk about doing them whenever another nerf a bit later comes up that will affect them again.
I would love to do runs that long that were challenging, but I'm not going to waste my time with a loadout I hate for useless epeen over achieving a high score in a game filled with false difficulty.
The fact still remains that if you ever want true difficulty to emerge, things need to be balanced and that is going to mean nerfs to things that are overpowered.1 minute ago, -CM-Hekovashi said:There is a definition between "want to" and "forced". If someone want to use aoe guns, cool let him use it, Is someone forced to use aoe guns-thats another story. And no, you can't bring rifle in to 2 hour surv, but you can bring tonkor, even if you really wanna bring that braton prime-you know that it's gonna do NOTHING, coz he just can't put enough damage to kill 200 lvl bombard, get an idea?
You aren't forced to do 2 hour survivals? The game is not even remotely balanced for that point.
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Just now, Reaper-God said:
Ok good luck in your missions with a maximum mob lvl of 50. For us, real players, who want to reach the maximum and enjoy the lategame, nerfs like that have a huge impact.
Ad hominems aren't going to make your argument any better. I sure hope the nerfs have a huge impact. They're meant to?
1 minute ago, -CM-Hekovashi said:First-you fix the reason why someone use something, Second-you fix what they use, not vica versa. God know WHEN de gonna begin to start of that enemy fixing stuff, but still they remove tools from us and leave us in this battlefield without a gun or with a tiny one, right now That is not good.
The reason people use what they do is not enemy scaling. I believe I stated this earlier, but most of the cheese enemies did not exist a long time ago, and people will STILL trivializing content with CC and instantly killing rooms with AoE.
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2 minutes ago, -CM-Hekovashi said:
You can't overskill oneshots, you really can't, you can't overbalance it or anything. You can't kill stuff after certain lvl without cheese skills or guns, you leterally can't, doesn't matter how good you are. If you gonna keep hitting a wall with you head you don't gonna brake the wall, but you head instead.
Exactly. And do you know why enemies are balanced presently such that they can do that? Because if not, there is no room for any sort of challenge, because the enemies are permanently CC'd, outside of your cast time.
Is it bad difficulty? Of course. But making our enemies fair isn't going to add challenge. It'd actually just remove it completely.EDIT: Once Warframe abilities are balanced, it'll become far more apparent our enemies are just bullet sponges, and they will move on to fix that. They're definitely aware it's an issue. But they also know if they fix it now, it will actually only make the game easier and thus less interesting.
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1 minute ago, R34LM said:
Mirage won't be pointless. Just aim the prism up and above the walls of cover. Most maps have enough room for it.
It wouldn't surprise me, though, if the LoS was calculated from Mirage's position, not the origin of the blind. So this remains to be seen if this is possible.
EDIT:
You're right, either way, she won't be pointless. -
1 minute ago, ThumpumGood said:
You make no sense. In a game where scaling is endless, there is never a need to nerf. If you think nerfs are good then I doubt you ever go passed 40 minutes.
To illustrate how hilariously wrong you are:
What if I have an ability that can instantly deal 100% Finisher damage to all enemies within 80m, and this ability goes through all defenses, including Nullifiers.
I'm pretty sure that'd need to be nerfed.
Infinite scaling =/= zero balance.
It merely means that you have to balance via counter-play and skill over numerical algorithms. -
10 minutes ago, -CM-Hekovashi said:
Never did a raid and i kinda have a idea that i don't gonna to start doing them for sure now.
Sure lets nerf all great tools but do nothing to main reason of why players forced to use those great tools-broken enemy scaling.
DE at it flawless-they fix the simptom, not thee main reason of WHY something hapening, just as USUAL.
To keep up with conversation I moved this from an edit to its own post.
You guys keep saying this, but clearly don't understand system analysis. Please, read what I just said above. I could go on and on about this topic. But I do assure you that Warframe's enemy scaling is not the reason people resort to cheese. Most of the cheese enemies actually have come AFTER people were cheesing with overpowered Warframe abilities. Sure, Mirage got hit by this recently. But if you weren't aware, Nullifiers, Combas, Bursas, Manics, Drahk Masters, Eximus units, Ancient Healers, Mutalist MOAs, Mutalist Ospreys, Scorpions and Sapper Ospreys weren't in the game as they are now back when Nyx and Sayrn were trivializing content in like U7. -
21 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:
This is a fallacious argument. The power of the frames being nerfed are being done so at the behest of people who have never played passed the first C rotation. They are ruining a great game. I dont play shooters. I have no shooters on my consoles or my PC. But I spent money on this one because of the endless challenge. If I get too good, I play longer and longer and longer. You ever play against a lv 200+ NPC? If you haven't then you dont understand that no frame is OP.
He was right about one point:
You are the minority. And there's a good reason for that.That's an enemy level twice that of what is currently end game content. And since enemies scale exponentially with their level, it's far, far, far more difficult. It's not that every other frame but your favorite ones to cheese with is unviable. It's that you and everyone else should not be playing at that level. I understand the desire for challenge and glory to get that far. But if you would let go of your absurdly broken mechanics for a little while, we might get less obnoxious false difficulty enemies. If we removed all the Nullifiers and so on, and were left with Butchers and Corrupted Lancers the game would be even more trivial. If we created actually challenging enemies they would still be ignorable because of the the hilariously overpowered CC we can pump out.
Because of this, the power level of the Tenno has to be reasonable before we can create interesting enemies. And that means nerfs.
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14 minutes ago, DuskLegendary said:
My thoughts exactly. See, I noticed about half of the people are here are just so overjoyed that basically we will no longer be doing things they don't like like blinding the whole map (Why is this a problem? You guys do realize this is a PVE game and not a PVP game don't you? That everything we do benefits you and doesn't hurt you?) well, you're right, if DE decides to go through with this, Raids and Nightmare Raids are going to be a lot more difficult.
So, let me get this straight here. Something works a little better than intended and alleviates some of the broken enemy scaling and one shot nonsense, and they want to take that away? I'm sorry if I sound extremely negative here, but I've been thinking about it, and I think after this upcoming nerf wave hits, I'm going to leave the game. I mean, I don't want to leave the game, I love this game, but what choice do I have when all of the viable end game frames and abilities keep on getting nerfed into the ground?!
How am I supposed to contend with higher tier content at this rate? The root of the problem is being ignored, which is enemy scaling.
I like challenge. I have the equipment to run anything I want. And so even if I want a new Prime, and the best way to get that is to run a long survival, if you come into a group with me, and remove the challenge, then I am no longer having fun. And that removes my reward. Because the new Prime is not my main concern.
Viable means 'capable of working successfully' not 'the tier reserved for the best'. I assure you that you are perfectly capable of completing all the content in this game without resorting to blinding enemies multiple rooms away. Line of Sight nerfs do not and have not and will not 'nerf something into the ground'. It is going to require that you are at least in the same room as your enemies. You can still toss Prism up into the air of a room and hit pretty much everything.5 minutes ago, Insizer said:Blessing is not Trinity's problem. Her problem is that she can fully regen her squad's health and fully regen her squad's energy.
To me at least, all Warframe abilities are, by nature, overpowered. Some abilities may be more helpful and powerful than others, but they are all, by design, made to allow us to take on hundreds of enemies with frightening efficiency. We clear entire military bases within 10 minutes. Some of that comes down to our weapons, but some of it comes down to our abilities. Regardless, each unit warfame energy contains a large amount of combat potential. This potential is balanced (or somewhat balanced) by the requirement of energy orbs, specific mod and focus school loadouts. Allowing Trinity, or any frame for that matter, to fully regen her squad's energy within a couple ticks (assuming your allies take a tick or two to recognize and kill the EV'd target) tears this tedious balance apart. There is no reason for any modding energy efficient loadouts when, thanks to one single ability, you are guaranteed to never run out of energy (unless you are using a toggle ability or if the Trinity user is... unique). I run Volt Prime (+ full rank Primed Flow) often and use his electrical abilities so liberally that I am personally responsible for sending both Edison and Tesla gleefully jumping in their graves due to excitement and awe. I have met my fair share of Trinities and not once whilst in their presence have I run below ~60% energy. Believe me, I have tried. I once stood still and did nothing but deploy E.Shields again and again... never once got below ~50% energy. My point is that EV's shear effectiveness eliminates all attempts to balance our powerful abilities and ruin the game in my opinion.
To me, Trinity should either regen health or regen energy, but not both unless she half-a$$es both. Preferably, get rid of her ability to regen energy because it is extremely game-breaking and because Trinity's kit is more healer than walking battery.
This is me tossing an idea on the board, but personally I would:
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Make Link also link to allies (different number, separate from the number of enemy links) and do something for them.
- A neat idea would be for Trinity to have a secondary health pool. Linked allies will have their health regenerated from this pool. Linked enemies will have their health drained into this pool. This gives Trinity a way to sustain her allies without casting WoL or Blessing again and again.
- Replace EV with something that interacts with allies that are Linked and enemies that are Linked or caught in Well of Life.
Correct, Blessing is not her biggest balance flaw. It is, however, still an ability that does too much for a single ability. Before this nerf hits, it's power budget is sufficient enough that I could literally remove my 1, 2, and 3 keys off of my keyboard and still be worth taking into a tough mission. The same is also true of Energy Vampire. She needs a complete rework. I quit playing her a long time ago because after I got my Corrupted mods shortly after they were released, and they changed Energy Vampire and Well of Life to what they are now, as I realized how boring she was since there was no risk whatsoever to playing her.
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Make Link also link to allies (different number, separate from the number of enemy links) and do something for them.
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2 minutes ago, WarmNoodles said:
Balance. With infinite scaling enemies. In a PVE game.
Cool, have fun with your changes. I don't feel like playing this game anymore.
Last I checked, there's still balance in PvE games. This is to gate progression and to ensure fun can be had by all members of a group.
It's also completely possible to have infinitely scaling enemies and static player characters and still have balance. Assuming you can infinitely avoid your enemies, even one damage will eventually kill something with a billion health. And just because enemies scale infinitely does not mean you have to be able to do so, too. There IS a point where you should want to stop. The reason you go past that is to try to get further than last time. Just for the challenge. You don't have to be able to do it.
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3 minutes ago, R34LM said:
I'm only speaking to the fact that we haven't seen a real buff. All of these changes are in response to how they are used in raids and sorties. Mag was even admitted to be changed because she was a one trick pony for corpus sorties. So our one ticket to get a frame changed is to find a way to make them too good for sorties and raids?
People who are mentioning enemy scaling bring up the best points too, because the biggest reason we have for example prism abused now is because grineer commanders chain switch teleport, scorpions spam grapple, snipers are one hit killers with no warning and seekers are close, and all infested enemies are cc machines. We are spamming these abilities to trivialize FAKE DIFFICULTY. If it is insisted that some frames get nerfs so much, perhaps enemies need one too. After all, enemy offense and defense scales indefinitely while neither of those things do for us. That's a larger disadvantage than most people think, and it is the main reason I quit warframe in times past.
Seriously, when are we going to see another buff to frames that the community says desperately need it? Oberon, hydroid, zephyr and limbo are all the hottest ones. Instead, development is just focused on the challenge tree of fun when usability is stagnant.
True, but they can only tackle so many issues at one time. They have to prioritize and do what they can when they can. Game design isn't easy. It takes a lot of time, and they have to do this all professionally, and deal with economics of time and resources and money. If they were to nerf the enemies to not be cheap, first, we'd still be cheap, and it'd make content even more trivial. And even with the fake difficulty elements, the game is a cakewalk if you use the meta setups. So you would definitely want to take out the Warframe outliers before the enemy ones. This is a complicated system in flux. You have to wait and adjust things steadily.
I'm not excessively praising DE, either. I have my disagreements with the decisions and their final execution quite often. But I also recognize the merit in their processes.12 minutes ago, WarmNoodles said:Reading and counting is helpful.
Aka, be solo or run QT on EVERYONE and get damaged on purpose AS WHOLE TEAM to get some damage reduction that won't be as good as original one.
You may spew memes like "SHE WAS BROKEN, NERF WELL DESERVED" all day, but the point is - the game as a whole is broken with unlimited scaling enemies and only few scaling abilities. And you should know that if you played the game outside of mercury past wave 20, especially with new weapons/frame.
But go on, praising developer for everything is gonna get this game in great places.
The way to go is adding different, more appealing options to solve the problems, not taking them out almost entirely.
If something is OP, adding more OP options does not, in fact, fix balance. That only addresses diversity. Diversity is an issue mostly because balance is an issue. Not the other way around.
4 minutes ago, Nyxxz said:I'm not sure how you can think Atlas is a good frame atm, he's pretty much the worst frame in the entire game shared with Oberon.
His #4 deals S#&$ damage, has "meh" hp unless it's a monster power str build which will suck at everything else and they're single target + deal less damage than a lvl 0 Lato. on a SINGLE TARGET.
Atlas IS a good frame. He can work perfectly well even in very high level content. His Rumblers aren't amazing, but they still draw some aggro and deal some damage. And the aggro is what you really care about. He also has instant and reliable stagger on his Gaze, and it's nice CC fairly quickly if you leave it on a second or two. He has mobility that is fun and rather effective through his punch. His Wall is admittedly meh without the augment. But as far as balance goes, he is decent. He could use some buffs, but his design and competency are pretty good. Banshee is the realistic benchmark for Warframe balance. Atlas is only a small step below.
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Just now, Shirelagel said:
An easy nerf for Ash that doesn't mess with the theme would be to make bladestorm a radial affect around him, instead of targeting a radius at range. A slight increase to the base duration of smoke screen would be a nice compensation since it is too short to be useful at a lot of the time.
To fix the motion sickness, you can make it a globe of spinning blades. Same effect, fits the power name, and easier on the eyes.
This all said, I am not of the opinion that Ash needs to be nerfed. I've seen numerous times in which a valkyr, excal, tonkor, or simulor keeps up with or exceeds the dps/kills of an Ash Bladestorm spammer. Bladestorm's animation time and target limit keeps its deadliness limited. But these changes to excal will hurt his dps a fair bit.
Those weapons also need nerfed. AoE is supposed to be balanced by the fact that it does more damage overall than a single target source, but that it's divided across multiple targets so kills only a few more enemies in the time that it'd take single target damage to do so. Currently, several AoE weapons kill single targets faster than single target weapons, and kill crowds far, far, far faster.
Just now, 3tomatoes said:I've already uninstalled. 2500 hours played. I can't even remember the last time a frame got a significant buff. How on earth did you think this was a good idea?
Frost's rework was a significant buff. Rhino's rework buffed him. Excalibur's rework buffed him. Volt's rework will buff him. Mag's rework will buff her. Atlas was buffed massively after his initially under-powered release and is now in a good spot. New mods have massively buffed Nekros, and he was buffed in the initial Syndicate patch. Mesa's getting her Peacemaker buffed to scale with secondary mods, and her Shooting Gallery buff is staying active on her the entire duration. You're being overdramatic, and are just objectively wrong.
Trinity deserved nerfs. Unfortunately. She's a busted broken frame, and needs a rework, rather than straight nerfs, so I'm not exceptionally happy about it, but I understand, because she also shouldn't remain in the state she is in currently. -
12 minutes ago, PowerofTwo said:
Yep i echo this post... steam says 912 hours played there's a dreadfull flushing sound in the background now.....
The abilities where broken, no question whatsoever, but that's because the game is broken.... enemies do scale infinetly, defenses do not.... stacking defences means it takes more ammo than you have to take 1 raid enemy to 50% hp (since your powers do nothing coz you've moded for surviveability)... add in the Mag change wich i'm now 100% sure it makes Polarize LoS dependant to.... and since magnetize is something to you want to use now you also need duration... so we run into the saryn Rework problem of needing 200% in every single stat to do... anything...
Abuse your Ashe's like it's the last @#&*( in a struggling Thai brothel because after bladestorm gets... adjusted we're SOL&JWL
We don't even have numbers or scaling values for the reworks yet. Put down your pitchfork and wait for the patch to drop. Sayrn can do a hell of a lot without having every single stat above 200%, and I'm sure Mag will be just fine, too. Bladestorm pretty much needs deleted. It's honestly as bad as Mesa's Peacemaker was.
12 minutes ago, Reaper-God said:Players quitting warframe again incoming. Thanks for the nerfs. Consider buffing frames to increase their usage and not nerfing then to the ground so no one ever uses them again. Hello Mesa.
Many of the underused frames aren't underused because they are too weak. It's because there are outliers that are so hilariously broken that no one wants to use anything else. Mesa deserved her nerfs. Don't act like anyone played her for anything other than Peacemaker and easy farm on things like Draco. You don't actually have to speed the grind up and trivialize the missions to have fun. If you do that, you might get that shiny new Prime faster, but once you've gotten it, you'll be right back to where you started with another notch in your Mastery belt and nothing more. You'll have nothing to do. Furthermore, it's not fun for everything to instantly die to Bladestorm/Peacemaker/World on Fire/Exalted Blade before anyone other than those frames can touch an enemy.
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12 hours ago, AM-Bunny said:
Sure, it situational and overall unimpressive, but you said it wasn't a complete buff and positive effect when it actually is.
I still think Ember's got a considerable lead for most useless. Only two Grineer units use fire weapons and the occasional time there's fire in the terrain. Plus she has to subject herself to damage to gain any benefit -- Napalms hit hard enough you usually don't want to jump into their line of fire. That seems even more situational to me.
But yeah, Oberon's sucks too. Nice flavour though.
Assuming it works like I'd expect?
Sancti Castana's with Heat damage modded. Enjoy your free Intensify and permanent 10 Energy gain. -
Depends upon what your typical setup is.
The best generalist damage type, ie, the one that you would want to run if you are playing alone against all factions, is Impact.
If you are typically running with 4x Corrosive Projection against Grineer or Corrupted, Slash is better, though Impact would be next after that, then Puncture.
If you are running against mostly Corpus, Impact. Puncture if against Grineer without Corrosive Projection, and Slash if you are against Infested. -
Just now, PainisDeWitt said:
Do you realize this is YET another bandaid mod?
Body Count? Yes. This Sniper one? No, it is not a band-aid.
Several of the snipers are already competitive as it stands. Or they would be if Nullifiers didn't ruin them. Their damage is fine. So trading a guaranteed damage mod for the ability to gain potentially much more damage via the combo counter is a legitimate strategic choice based upon how you play rather than a band-aid to fix bad design. -
8 minutes ago, (XB1)Cash201293 said:
I thought it would have some kind of range to it. Guess not. Cool nonetheless
Hard to say. Even if it does have a range, it could still be enough to allow you to duck behind cover, etc. And they could still be taking the aggro because you're in Shade/Kubrow stealth, or Ivara arrow, or behind a ledge or other cover. And, again, Ack & Brunt is still a good weapon, and it still could have some uses (for someone trying to be 'true tank' for the team, etc.)
So I'd say it's a niche but attractive mod for certain players. It could help with say, reviving someone who is downed, as well. -
Just now, (XB1)Cash201293 said:
Thats kinda a weird for a blessing trinity. Because bless Trinity does 99% dmg reduction. Not sure if having that mod for Ack & Brunt for a Bless Trin is really worth it. Yall already take no dmg.
You can use it instead of the Glaive to help trigger QT. Ack & Brunt already have really high damage reduction when blocking, plus you have Link, plus the ability to burn your health from your allies taking damage, whilst you're in a safe place. Except you don't have to use a bad melee weapon or an explosive weapon to help trigger QT, nor do you have to run out suicidal and try to get off Blessing.
It's not core or anything. But it is helpful to people looking for something different. -
9 minutes ago, ToaMimrik said:
Releasing Vauban Prime early would be quite fitting, since the original was also added to the game while the big update was being delayed.
With all the events they've had scheduled so close together, and the lack of content in the past month or so, I think they actually have an awful lot of exciting things just around the corner. I don't think those events slowed them down that much.
No big deal either way though! I can wait, and the Volt rework will come out soon enough. And when it does, I shall release a manly squee of excitement and spam click the Play button whilst waiting for the update to finish. -
1 minute ago, DERebecca said:
Nope, that is not this week.
Ah, well, take your time guys! You can't rush perfection. And I can stand to wait quite awhile longer considering how awesome the reworks look.
Can you give us a little more teaser info on what is in 18.10, though?
Tenno reinforcements? Kavats? Surprise extra early Vauban Prime or Faerie Frame?
Hype train commence!
Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]
in Warframes
Posted
It has had the soft targetting and one handed cast for quite some time now. If you were unaware, by the way, it also has unlimited targetting range on the first target, though the arc distance is affected by range mods. If you do not directly target an enemy, it will consume an arc to target something if there is something within the arc range. This allows you to still use the ability to stun distant crowds even with Narrow Minded, though you will have to much more accurate with your targetting, and it will not be able to arc to targets that are far away from the initial one.