DuskLegendary
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Posts posted by DuskLegendary
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By now, everyone is well aware of what I think about these dang nerfs. I'll save you some of the bs that I was about to spout and I'll just leave it at one thing: I don't mind these overly extreme nerfs as long as DE follows up and makes good on their word... that is, that they truly will fix the absurd God awful enemy scaling and overall difficutly of end game content. Enough said.
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1 hour ago, WARLOCKE said:
Damage frames should not have CC or Healing. Thats just bad design, like Ash. And Prim was far beyond normal CC, it locked down maps. Ive woken up mate. And your raid meta means very little in the scope of balance. Warframe is a game made up of many diffrent modes of play. Raiding is just one, and not even a very popular one. Your builds? You mean the builds you copy pasted from other players. If you are capable of logical thought you would have hae seen how busted those two skills were and not invested so much into them. Its like the people who go out and buy 2x arcane trickery KNOWING Ash's ult is getting nerfed. You have no one to blame but yourself for such bad choices.
And heres the thing, players dont have to use cheese. Raids are quite capable of being completed by SKILLED pllayers without a bless trin or broke &#! mirage prism. Once more, its not a issue of you having to cheese. Its wanting to cheese and being so reliant on cheesing that you have no idea what to do when the crutch is kicked out from under you. Im fine with healing support. Im not fine with trinity or oberon for obvious reasons. Oberon needs a better heal and far better support skills and EV needs to be changed to be more interactive and far less powerful. Support frames should not break games or trivialize content. Trinity was doing (and still is) just that. The only reason EV was left alone (for now) is because the forums couldnt handle the baby tears of the crutch brigade if both blessing and EV got it in the same patch. But EV's time is coming.
You are. You play both frames or at the very least, rely on both frames. I dont. I play with friends/clan that dont need to cheese in raids and high tier content. The only thing these nerfs do is make other players play better and the game be far more healthy and challenging to those of us who dont use broken toys. BEcause if those abilities were left ingame the devs would have no choice but supercharge the cheese thus punishing anyone not using it. I own a trinity prime and mirage. Fully formad. These changes are good. As you have put it. Wake up mate.
Look back and read, I already acknowledged how broken Prism was and everyone else knew it too, even the Mirage mains. That's why everyone accepted it but with quite a bit of salt. And I'm also aware that in the grand scope of Warframe, raiding is just a fraction of the overall gameplay. But I hope you're aware the after the Star Chart, a lot of people shoot for end game: Sorties, Raids, endurence runs, or just opt to play with their clan without ever doing any of the above. And yes, my builds mate. Use your brain if you have one and realize that if you've thought of a build, chances are that someone else has already thought of it before you. In fact, I very much doubt you have any original builds of your own that someone before you didn't already think of and implement, so you yourself are using builds that you copied and pasted with a slight variation of different mods here and there.
And your argument is also invalid and makes very little sense. Yes, I invested in optimal builds because who wouldn't? What else am I going to do in this game, make a Nitain collection to show off on Reddit? If there's a chance to make a better build, why wouldn't you? I want to get the most out of my frames and so I mod them accordingly, but in a way that if a nerf like this ever does happen, I could easily switch the mods around to adjust: which is what I did. And if you can read DE's mind and can tell what and when they're going to swing the nerf bat at next before they post on the forums so many months ahead, then mate, you're very intutive because I can't. Our little Blind Mirage problem went on for a very long time without anything every being done about it, so holding off on builds for fear of a nerf isn't really such a bright idea. I think I made a pretty good choice seeing as how I fixed all of my builds in less than 3 hours. Nerfs and reworks are expected in any MMO/MMORPG/MMOFPS game, but that doesn't really stop anyone from making the best builds that they can possibly make for fear of said class reworks.
And yes, I'm aware that you don't need these things to succeed in a raid, I've raided without a Blessing and a Blind Mirage a few times. But I bring these things and keep them on hand, because that is what the host asks for. But the thing is: EV only becomes gamebreaking when you have strong CC and DPS frames like Ash or Mirage in your party that insist on spamming a single move. And as for the Oberon bit, Oberon does need a buff in some way to make his overall viability on par with Trinity. As of now, I have absolutely 0 reason to use him over Trinity aside from the fact that he can deal damage. Even so, why would I do that when you're most certainly going to have a DPS frame in your party anyways as an EV? And while we're on the note of raiding, Banshee/an extra Nova/Vauban can all be used to replace Mirage, and now I suspect that Volt might be able too now to some extent with his new found CC.
And once again, you're wrong. Who said anything about me relying on these frames? I've explained everything in the second paragraph about why I even had builds for these frames in the first place. Because it was the meta, because it was requested, because it was how things were done normally in a raid with slight variations from time to time depending on the host. It's not like I got out of bed one morning and said "Hmmm... I think the meta for raids is going to be Trinity, Mirage, Slow Nova, and maybe a Vauban for good measure." it's just the way things turned out. Who made this rule of thumb that seemingly most players started to abide by? I don't know, but it caught on. Oh, you don't have to tell me to wake up, I'm already plenty awake bud. But it looks like you still might be asleep, so you really should wake up, mate.
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2 hours ago, Heatnix. said:
I really don't get where DE is coming from anymore. As their only way to "balance" things is by nerfing stuff (which isn't balancing), enemies keep getting stronger and stronger to the point where we have to beg for them to settle down. This only makes it so weak frames remain weak and unused and newly nerfed frames get tossed there making players look for a new top 3 frames to pick one and go for it. So they're not making all frames balanced and equally useful, they're just thinning down which frames can actually be used... cause enemies keep getting stronger. Those things just keep getting crazy strong.
A lot of their recent enemies are just one-hitting, bullet sponges. The grineer cats were insane at first. Bursas are still kinda crazy. You go into the void and get one hit randomly. Their response to that is to make frames weaker? ... ok. So instead of making all frames good... they're making them all bad until no one is good. I just wish they didn't go so hard on nerfing and tried to buff more things instead. Especially because some things just get Saryn'd and brushed aside to "let them be" until everyone else is as messed up.
I did read the statement about them testing things out and to 'deal with their experiments' thing is... I'd expect those things to be on a test server or with actual player feedback so the general population doesn't have to suffer through them while they make the bazillion usual attempts at fixing them... because they can never meet in the middle, it's always nerf hammer HARD and then buffs ever so slightly. Ever so slightly...
There. Now I'm ready for the forum's DE-fense Force... because DE never makes mistakes...
This is what I've been saying time and time again, I've probably stated this about 6 times by now throughout many of the recent threads, and it's not wrong. THIS!!! This 100 times over, 1,000 times over! Read it people. Did you read it? Well read it again. This man has the right idea, and I whole heartedly feel the same way.
Thought I might add that in today's Sortie, I felt right at home. The sortie wasn't too difficult that I felt like I needed to break the game with cheese. Now Raids need to be adjusted next, and after that DE can take it from there and keep making subtle fixes. Then everyone wins. No more nuts enemy scaling, no more of us feeling as if we need to cheese and then doing so out of desperation, it's a win win.
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41 minutes ago, WARLOCKE said:
Trinity was not, and still is not is fine. Mirage was not and maybe fine now. Both frames literaly dominated the missions they were on. Im sorry you are to biased to see that.
And I'm sorry to see that you're too biased to see that Trinity was our only good supportive healing role, wake up mate. Trinity has still retained her usefulness outside of raids, though the Blessing nerf did very heavily affect the raid meta. Mirage has always been a good DPS frame and still is, though she no longer serves the role of a good CC frame and you can argue that all you want, I won't agree with it. Vauban and Nova, even Freeze Force Frost are good CC frames, Mirage no longer is.
And also, read back over my post if you're capable of doing that much, at no point did I ever mention Trinity or Mirage here. Yes I'm biased and I will be when my builds got trashed and I have to pour more Forma into them, and spent more time leveling them to get them up to par, enough said. It's just that you probably play nothing but Star Chart missions to have a basic understanding of why this was a big deal in the first place, I completely understand.
I was well aware of Mirage's brokeness which I have stated many times if you've bothered to read my other posts. And I also said many times, that we, the playerbase use such broken abilities to counter enemy cheese. In this post, I was addressing Frost and Vauban, which are perfectly fine but no doubt someone will find something to pick over and nerf.
Trinity isn't fine in your eyes and I have a feeling if you had your way at all, healing support wouldn't even be a thing in this game at all. I respect your opinions man, but that doesn't mean that I agree with them at all. Every MMO type game has a healer class that restores health an mana, a mage if you will. Seeing as Warframe is a .... (MMOFPS game? Who knows?) it was only a matter of time that we got a frame like this. Trinity does one thing and she does one thing well, she supports her teammates just like a supportive frame should do.
And lastly, I'm not anymore biased than you.You have it in your head, set in stone, that Trinity isn't fine and needs further nerfing, so in a way, aren't you trying to impose you ideas onto me and the playerbase? Yeah mate, we have a term for that, it's called being biased. Don't point your finger when you're guilty of it too.
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Yeah but then again, did you see how small the map actually was? CC wasn't an issue this time around because the map wasn't huge with Nullifiers pouring in from every direction. So what I'm saying is, today's Sortie was actually fair to the point that nothing gamebreaking had to be used, and that's how it should be.
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Well the thing that makes me sour about this is, I've literally had my Ash Prime build for an entirety of 3 whole days. And now Bladestorm is going to be NER- uh... sorry, I mean, reworked too. My bad, "reworks" are just sounding a lot like "nerfs" to me lately, with the exception of Mesa and Volt of course, and depending on who you ask, Mag.
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6 minutes ago, Cosmic_Elf said:
DE should stop nerfing things that worked well for years, which are necessary for completing hard missions.
Bingo! We've got a winner! Short, sweet, and to the point, I like it.
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As sarcastic as this post is overall, you're right. (not in the sarcasm of course, right in that these abilities are perfectly fine as they are now, and need no further changes) Frost was advertised as the end all be all protector, the objective defender. Nerfing that would be wrong. Frost is tanky and slow, defensiveness with a bit of offense if you choose to play him that way, and that's just the way Frost should stay.
Vauban, not to generalize here, but the main reason people use him aren't for his bombs and gadgets: I know that might be really hard for some of you to beleive. No, it's his Bastille. Lord Vauban, king of CC, king of Infested Defense. He should also be left alone, but I fear with all that I've seen so far, we're going to have someone come in and say that Bastille's range needs to be nerfed as well as the duration. Actually, I strongly beleive that at some point we will have someone make a complaint like that.
And as for the mod part, I believe you're correct. I don't want to be rude and I'm certainly not dev bashing at all, but I don't think a lot of thought was really put into these mods when they were released. I think they just seemed like a good idea at the time and were released before realizing exactly how this would impact gameplay and builds overall, as a whole.
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16 minutes ago, Fifield said:
Removed? No.
Firstly, Prism was so OP, Mirage could solo any Interception with Level 1 million enemies. That's how stupid it was. Heck, 3 Mirages can probably still do that on any 2D map if they get a nice rhythm going.
Any power that routinely trivialises endgame content has to be nerfed. Endgame needs to be at least vaguely challenging.
Long range permastun abilities are beyond stupid. They don't exist in any other game that I know of. When these are fixed, Bless Trinity would have been the next cheese tactic. With that fixed, Invisibility will be the next.
Secondly, the current endgame content and the miniboss enemies were delivered in response to lots of complaints about the game being too easy. To say we need ridiculously OP abilities to deal with content created because of ridiculously OP abilities is a circular argument. Unless you were thinking of other missions?
2 seconds is quite a long time. Why didn't you bullet jump or roll? And you have 4 revives and presumably 3 other people to pick you up for free.
Well I do beleive that Prism was overpowered and I do indeed have mixed feelings about it. I know that it was capable of ridiculous feats and it did need to be changed. At the same time, everyone had used it for end game content for so long we became accustomed to it, but I didn't see many people ever using it outside of interceptions or raids, where it truly shined.
And as for end game, since end game was made the way it is now because of our overpowered setups and abilities, would it not be wrong to nerf everything into the ground and leave end game alone as it is now? This is not right, and I do not agree with that whatsoever. And as for invisiblity needing to be nerfed/revised in some way, I don't beleive this is the case. The only frames capable of invisiblity (without a lense) are Ash, Ivara, and Loki. Well, both Loki and Ivara are already frail without sacrificing mod slots to make them tanky, and Ash's doesn't even last that long. I can't tell you how many times I've been shot going out of invisiblity and killed, even by lower tier enemies in about the lv. 60s... Loki is frail, invisiblity doesn't really need to be touched. Now I've heard of Ivara being able to go 4 hours in survival alone, but that sounds more like an Ivara problem to me, and maybe she needs to be looked at. Maybe the invisiblity mechanic as a whole needs to be looked at, but all I'm going to say is this: I don't want to see us trivialized anymore than we already are.
Lastly, it's because my team member got downed and I went to revive him. I had to abandon my post to go get him. When I got back and I was preparing to cast Molecular, a group ran up the stairs, and there was absoultely no way for me to react. I got shot 2 times, got downed, and then got revived... if I had been alone in a survvial, that would have been a death.
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44 minutes ago, Zdeadfallout said:
Why is every one is hating on the new update ?
I mean Come'on nerfing Trinity doesn't mean the game is dead (oh god), yes she is god and the best support frame out there, but you know you still have the old stuff
And Mag, she is a monster, I was playing with a squad that had Mag and she was Kickin a$$
Volt, I don't think he got nerfed, from the footage I saw, he looked great and doing a good CC Job
while Valkyr, well she was broken anyway, and being more broken now doesn't mean she will be always in this shape
Mesa from what I heard, she got buffed (I'm not a mesa player so I'm not into her that much)
and for Excal, yes they balanced him a bit but still I can kill with him (to be honest, I don't like the blind slide, I think they should remove it and make it a normal slide attack),
What I think about Mirage, I still don't know whether it is a good thing or bad thing (I have her but still didn't try the new stuff), but she was playing a good role in interception but that makes her a little bit good for Def from what I think (since she won't blind the whole map)
Well I said what I think in my opinion, yes there are some problems but you know, try not to put Pressure on the Dev team cuz we don't want to be hard on them
Well, Let's hope I won't get burned or deTerminated or disintegrated or eradicated or saltified or any kind of that painful mass destruction.....(The Hell Am I Saying,I don't give a Clem)
Because all our our frames and builds that we poured time and resources into are being nerfed into the ground while the enemies remain unchanged and unbalanced, that's why. Raid failures because the raids are so hard we need these cheesy tactics to beat them, and now they're even more of a nightmare because we got our only decent tools taken away from us. Sorties sometimes just as hard depending on exaclty what mission we get.
You want to know the reason for me disliking the nerf wave? That's why. Yes, this stuff was overpowered: in lower tier content. I feel as if this stuff gave us equal footing with the unfarily powerful end game enemies, capable of downing you in 2-3 seconds and even flat out one shotting you. If the enemies are capable of cheesing me, am I not allowed to do the same to them? Sometimes, my best "non meta" weapons that are fully decked out can't even kill these higher tier end game enemies. This is a problem. This is why cheesing happens, and this is why the nerf wave wasn't okay, because it's taking away some of my viable options for clearing end game content. What don't people get about this?
But do not mistake me: I'm not saying I want to trivialze the gameplay and make the game easy mode. I'm saying if nerfs have to happen, I want them to happen in a way that balances the game for the better, both us and the enemies, instead of resorting to cheap nerfs.
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Hold on, are you implying that any and all CC such as Vauban's Bastille and Nova's Molecular Prime need to be removed from the game? Because I think CC frames are necessary on certain mission types, and frames like this make those missions tolerable. You gimp Bastille and Molecular Prime for example (The main reason any normal person uses Nova and Vauban) and what's left for those frames? Take away CC in general in this game because it's considered cheese, and we're left with nothing but DPS frames, and that's what concerns me.
I don't want a game that's too easy, nor do I want a game focused around nothing but DPS frames, and I fear if the CC nerf keeps up, this is what the game is going to turn into. I cheese enemies because they cheese me by one shotting me. In today's Interception Sortie the moment I let down my guard with Nova I got overtaken and killed in 2 seconds, literally, I counted. CC is needed, maybe not in the form of Prism map wide cheese tactics, but it is. If extremely difficulty is what you desire, go play Dark Souls.
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12 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:
You ... forgot that nightmare raids even exist and that blessing was annihilated as well. I saw once that blind already couldn't save Mirage in nightmare in a split second when bless ran out and napalm spawned from the closed hangars' door behind her basically one-hit killing mirage, and saying gg to the raid since at this exact moment she was on the pad and the core was on the electrified part of the rail. Fcn shade didn't help because it takes forever for it to even notice that there's an enemy near you. It literally took one second to fail the whole raid even with the blessing, even with the shade and having quick thinking on the frame. And there was no human factor because you can't possibly do anything to a napalm that hides behind the null's field , you can't move from the button, can't do sht at this point just die and fail.
Yeah people seem to forget about end game content. This nerf was only beneficial to those who only play normal gameplay, and don't do sorties or raids. I'm a daily raider and I haven't bothered doing a raid since the nerf because something tells me I know exactly how it would turn out, and I play this game to have fun, not to rage at several raid failures because all of our necessary tools needed to do the raids in the first place are being gimped into the dirty. Salty? You know I am mate.
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I understand your concern. I'll be the first to admit that I didn't agree with the changes being made, and I wasn't happy with them. However, this is currently one of my favorite games, so I'm going to roll with the changes and go with the flow. DE doesn't want us to be overpowered, I get that. I don't want to be overpowered. But I don't want the game to be too hard either. I'll trust in their ability to find a balance and meet us half way.
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9 minutes ago, (PS4)TheYetiMan22 said:
Surely DE need to look at the scaling of enemies before reworking frames? It's baffling that they'd not look at the base problem, I don't know of any developer/company who wouldn't consider that first.
Well surprise surprise my friend, today proved otherwise. Enemy scaling is being looked at I'm sure of it, but we will be handed a ton more nerfs before anything is ever done about that not so little problem.
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31 minutes ago, Bdkay said:
I agree, mirage has no reliable cc. They nerfed mirage, now its more useful to use Nova, Nyx and vauban. I dont like using Mirage for dps either, so ill never even use her anymore.
the cast time of prism is so slow that you will die before you can even CC anything especially with this nerf.
The problem is a lot of the time enemies are behind cover and/or they're not even looking in your general direction, I tested this in about 7-8 different missions, one of them being the potato alert, and I can honestly say that the ability is now worthless. This makes me sad too, because Mirage is my favorite frame, and her CC got reduced to mediocrity. But there is one good thing that came about from this: I slapped 3 more Forma on her and made a Hall of Mirrors build, now I have another DPS frame. But sadly, DPS will not serve you well in raids.
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19 minutes ago, -dicht.Amducias- said:
remove bomb explosion self dmg now that bless trin is nerfed to death
Have you tried to do a LOR after the patch? To be honest, I'm actually pretty nervous about it and I feel very heavily discouraged.
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Trust me, I'm not happy about all of these nerfs either. Mainly because I spent a lot of time, and I did a lot of reserach to figure out the best builds for my favorite frames, only to have to completely rebuild some of them or trash some of them all together. And for what? Because some people were angry about me making them invincible for half a minute at a time, or because I locked down Interception maps?
Well, what's done is done. I'm not going to argue with anyone. The changes have been made, people have whined until all of these things got nerfed into the dirt. But even if people weren't whining DE was well aware of all of this and would have made the changes sooner or later anyways, I'm aware of this, enough said. But yes, I'm quite salty about it.
Not much you can do now but find new ways to play your favorite frames and build around their best qualities. It sucks, of course it does. But it is what it is.
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11 minutes ago, rawr1254 said:
Uhh CP of course.
Thanks. I asked because I didn't know if Rifle Amp stacking with HOM + Augment + Eclipse would be more powerful than a single Corrosive Projection, especially since I'm not really planning to use Mirage for group play. Someone recommended Rifle Amp for this build and it struck me as a pretty odd choice and I was wondering if Rifle Amp was somehow more powerful on a build like this, hence my asking.
But I have the answer I needed, thanks mate.
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So guys, it's all in the title. Since the recent nerf today to Prism, I decided to go with a straight DPS build for Mirage. So, what would be the best aura to use on her, Rifle Amp, or Corrosive Projection? I would normally go with Corrosive, but Mirage is a special case, so I'm really not too sure this time around.
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Well, Mirage now has no reliable way to CC. Tested it thouroughly, and I'd honestly rather use Nova for CC or Vauban. Mirage will now be my DPS frame instead.
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My build still works perfectly fine after the update, only difference is I really have to pay attention to my energy now and I have to cast Hysteria more often. I did manage to make it 60 minutes in T3 solo after all, no consumables. So, if an unfamiliar Valkyr player like me can do that, someone who never uses her, then everyone else should be fine. But I should mention, I did use Zenurik with her.
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1 hour ago, IANOBW said:
So in light of the update, we've had a bunch of nerfs to frames. Long story short, it makes endgame a lot harder, but almost to the point where endless missions are impossible to run over say 80 waves/minutes.
To balance this out, would it be right if DE took the approach of reworking how endless missions scale in difficulty and/or nerf some enemies? It almost looks like nerfing frames is the norm now, and seeing enemies put down a level is way out of sight.
I completely agree. We get handed out nerfs like candy, I only think it's right that the enemies also get rebalanced. Especially in Raids now.
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Just now, Valkyrion said:
Try doing it next time on a corpus mission... even when you don't know... you'll be dead because of scrambus.
I believe it, I don't think I want to try this on a Corpus mission. As it was, making it to a full hour required me to do some hit and run tactics, a lot of running away to deactivate and reactivate my Hysteria. And lets not even get into watching out for the Life Support while trying to manage Hysteria, that wasn't fun at all. Now, our old gal is still end game viable as I've show, but does it require a lot more work and careful play? Yep. Will I be doing this again? Nope. I'll be using Chroma for solo stuff from now on.
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Proof of me going 60 minutes in T3 solo after this new nerf update
My current Valkyr setup that I used to achieve 60 minutes
My weapon that I used with this Valkyr setup
Stop the nerfs, fixs the actual game
in General Discussion
Posted
I keep hearing that this game needs more challenge, so I'm just wondering what type of game everyone wants Warframe to be, what type of game DE wants Warframe to be? Is this game supposed to be challenging at it's core, or is it supposed to be a game that appeals to both old and new players alike? Aren't Sorties, LOR, and JV raids supposed to be the challenging part of the game?
I guess what I'm wondering is, why give us all of these great tools, if they're just goint to be stripped from us at a later date? Why bother making builds, only to realize that it may be pointless at a later date? I guess the wisest move would be to just to enjoy the game for what it is now, even though I'm not quite sure what vision DE is trying to achieve here.
I've since replaced my Mirage with a Banshee and I found, while it's not nearly as fun, it's almost just as effective. I'm disappointed too, but I have no doubts DE has great things in store for us.