PatternistSlave
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Posts posted by PatternistSlave
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Tactical is awesome when it works and there's a reason to use it.
Piloting I've seen used once, but did work.
Gunnery being a better aimbot and/or auto-turret would be cool. It's hard to do worse than useless.
Engineering could stand to be sped up a tad.
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2 hours ago, bl1te said:
those low-skilled players shouldn't be in said content in the first place.
49 minutes ago, bl1te said:Allowing newer players to participate in close-to-endgame content is bad.
Then we're doomed to a never ending cycle of "challenging" content being outright removed to allow "low-skilled players" to participate, because like it or not you're talking about the vast majority of warframe players.
1 hour ago, AntiMomentum said:The fact of the matter is the newer/casual players are the bread and butter of the game so if you want challenging content it has to be done in a way that doesn't attract them
There aren't enough "skilled" players to justify dev time on content exclusively for them and certainly not with lackluster rewards. As Nightwave and Railjack have pretty clearly indicated. Arbitrations are proof to me content designed with everyone in mind can lead to a better experience for everyone involved anyway. But gate keeping is fun too I guess?
49 minutes ago, bl1te said:this challenge is not rewarded
It couldn't be in the future tho?
1 hour ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:double the reward frequency.
Reward normalization is a bit of a topic all its own, but incentive reflecting difficulty makes sense. With arbitrations specifically I'm guessing abuse would be a concern should they reward revives, but surely there's something that can be done.
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Arbitrations when first introduced catered almost exclusively to "veteran" players. Either you had the gear to stay nigh indefinitely or you didn't and died 2 min in never to touch the mode again. Pleasing no one in the process. The genius of the rework was in designing a system that not only added challenge to veterans, but allowed newer or different types of players to participate. I dunno about the rest of you, but reviving 2 or 3 of my teammates while keeping up life support is the closest Warframe has come to "challenging" or "suspenseful" since the raids. Which kindof had a similar thing going on. Running with less experienced players certainly added challenge. Whether through Squad Link or by some other mechanic, I feel like any "endgame" is doomed to failure if it doesn't include a similar design component. Thoughts?
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Princess Mononoke
Ninja Scroll
Akira
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Granted I have a riven for it, but would put it at top tier of its type.
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Hell yeah I need more. One for every weapon ideally.
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I really like the augment and would totally use it. Not bothered by the downsides at all. Still can't figure out a mod to remove in favor of tho. Maybe if she had less casting times innate.
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4 minutes ago, Loza03 said:
The main conceit of this thread is that Pablo, one of the lead Warframe designers, has put forward the idea that DE can't make more interesting AI, encounters, whatever, with the current Warframe design.
He only said perfecting AI was rather pointless so long as CC existed, not really the rest of that. Went on to talk about how impossible it would be to balance the level of variety in warframe. Said he thought challenge would be more likely achieved through mechanics as opposed to numbers.
19 minutes ago, Loza03 said:Voluntary nerfing doesn't apply, because we can undo that whenever we want as well, and that means DE have to assume that we're going into any encounter with full power. I.e., that we can turn off said encounter with no downsides.
An incentive would mean a downside to not. Say a mod that gave triple drops, but cost all your capacity. The downside to not using it being drops at a slower rate.
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12 minutes ago, Loza03 said:
Not without compromise. Not without respecting that regardless of our own preferences, that other's preferences, opinions and playstyles need to be respected.
Yeah I mean that's kindof what I don't get. Can't we just nerf ourselves any time we like? What if there was just more of an incentive to do so?
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1 hour ago, Corvid said:
Patternist apparently doesn't understand the phrase "On subsequent missions", nor the difference between a static sandbox and an expanding one. They are also apparently unaware of the existence of the ARPG game genre, and have mis-ascribed the term "looter" onto it.
Much fun as it is arguing semantics and/or talking about the wonder of me, I don't think the language hindered my point in any way. You'd sacrifice rpg and/or melee in favor of gun mechanics? I wouldn't.
1 hour ago, Loza03 said:Limbo
Arbitrations, Corrupted and Corpus are a nightmare and he took a hard nerf to sentients. Only being useful in select missions is a pretty big drawback. The Limbo hate has been overblown due to his history as a troll frame imo.
1 hour ago, Felsagger said:I want to feel pressure, feel uncomfortable and fully aware of the surroundings. Mistakes should be punished like in any chess game.
See, like I don't. I want all to fall before me as I prance around like a god. Can we really not both exist in the same game?
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19 minutes ago, Corvid said:
And now it's all so clear. Patternist doesn't even know what a looter is.
A looter is a game in which you pick up items that enhance your character, in order to make yourself stronger on subsequent missions. That's it. There is no part of the "Looter" label that implies widespread AOE use or overpoweredness.
Your definition would also apply to CoD. Is CoD a "looter"? I think you're confusing the term "looter" with "rpg mechanics". Diabloesque if you'd prefer the term "looter" be as meaningless as possible? (Diabloesque might imply topdown tho.)
7 minutes ago, Loza03 said:If anything, more drawbacks would help make them more unique.
Maybe, but that hasn't been traditionally popular. Self damage on launchers for example. Even the knockback I personally remove with mods. Finding drawbacks for hundreds of abilities and whatnot sounds hella difficult as well.
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4 minutes ago, Corvid said:
Quick roll call: does anyone here think the game can't be both a looter and a shooter? Last I checked, the two were not diametrically opposed.
No, I don't think everything "looter" needs to be nerfed in order for "shooter" to work properly.
9 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:You’re very defensive upon negative criticism and it shows how you can’t handle an opposing opinion. Calling people negative etc just based on how you handle all of these discussions it shows you’re not entirely mature enough to have a debate
I'd prefer to respond in kind, but experience has taught me it just results in a forum warning.
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3 minutes ago, Aldain said:
Purposely engaging in logical fallacies is never a good argumentative tactic no matter your intention
Here I thought we were having a friendly discussion, not a formal debate.
4 minutes ago, Aldain said:if "challenge" isn't needed then why hasn't DE made a gun that kills the entire tileset in one trigger pull or just make every mission instantly progress to the success screen?
Difference being no one is here asking for enemies to be made easier. You are all asking for pretty radical changes to the core gameplay. Whether you realize it or not.
6 minutes ago, Aldain said:your argument just might not be convincing
If Liches and Railjack didn't convince you content specifically catering to veterans was a bad idea there's nothing I'm going to say that will. Am I not allowed to post for fun?
1 minute ago, Corvid said:Y'know what, I'm done responding to them. I'm not going to waste my time engaging with someone who purposefully uses logical fallacies in their statements.
Well you needed some excuse after we got right back to the old "shooter vs looter" conundrum.
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1 minute ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:
Pro tip. If you’re calling someone out on derailing a thread and you continue to engage with such you’re doing the same thing. If you don’t care for his opinion don’t reply simply put
Yeah, but at least I'm making the effort to get it back on topic, no?
2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:Ah, we've gone from "logical conclusion" to "the danger".
Yeah, those are two very different outcomes genius. You aren't even trying...
Simply trying to relate to you in any sort of way. My bad?
1 minute ago, Felsagger said:Sir, do you realize that you are being disrespectful in this exact post? Read your own posts.
Yeah I get you see any form of criticism as disrespectful.
4 minutes ago, Corvid said:you are not "taking ideas to their logical conclusions", you are exaggerating what is being said in order to mischaracterise what they are actually arguing for. In other words, a strawman fallacy.
reductio ad absurdum, but it was with the best of intentions.
6 minutes ago, Corvid said:Meaning an emphasis on not allowing certain powers to be so overbearing that they literally allow players to switch off the gameplay.
Like what? They've already nerfed Mirage, Banshee, Zenistar, Ember, etc.
7 minutes ago, Corvid said:Making players put a tiny bit of thought into where they pop their abilities to maximise their effect does not make those abilities useless
CC abilities are already nigh on useless as it is. You play a lot of Vauban? I sure don't.
10 minutes ago, Corvid said:Spammable, wide-reaching, cover-ignoring nukes are not.
Have you tried playing ESO without Equinox or Sayrn? It just doesn't work and they're not extremely oppressive outside of that specific mode.
14 minutes ago, Corvid said:What we want is for Warframe to be Warframe, not "Mindless 4-spam: The Game".
And I'm arguing that IS Warframe. I'd relate it more to like Diablo or Dynasty Warriors. Which are fun games. What do you have against looters? This one has kept you occupied for 9 years.
16 minutes ago, Corvid said:Uh... don't know how to break this to you, but that's kind of what Warframe is.
Not the way I play it it isn't. The melee change allowing you to hit flying enemies? Magnific.
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1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:
Besides continuously misconstruing what we say and exaggerating our points?
Nah fam, totally not disrespectful.
No, sry. It's just not. Certainly not on the level of calling your posts "drivel".
2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:Of course. It's totally the mods, you're a perfectly respectable ray of sunshine aren't you.
Never claimed to be, but have been around and rarely experienced cliquey BS to this extreme. It certainly stands in stark contrast to the game itself.
6 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:How exactly are "marshmallow" bullets a "logical conclusion"?
That is the danger in nerfing damage, no? Congrats btw for including something remotely on topic.
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6 minutes ago, Corvid said:
The things I described wouldn't need a massive overhaul. They would simply be using the same balancing toolset they already have in a different way. DPS formulae already exist, code for making AOE line-of-sight based already exists, it's just a matter of applying them.
Besides, this year has already seen two fairly substantial mechanical revision updates, so it's not as if DE's opposed to changing how the game works.
"different way" meaning what exactly? Making every CC ability uniformly useless when compared to damage is limiting variety, no? Ultimately pointless as enemies can be made immune to CC anyway. Nerfing damage is bullet sponges and you disagreed with anyway, no?
sweatshawp already argues it's not even a looter. What is it then? A shooter? Destiny? If I wanted to play Destiny I'd play Destiny. Sorry, but I don't have the confidence in DE to compete with Bungie in terms of shooter mechanics and a 3rd person shooter sounds pretty gross if I'm honest.
3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:You're right, to you no, because you've never shown an ounce of it and I'm confident you never will.
What have I said to you that was remotely disrespectful? Nothing. Because otherwise the lot of you would have reported me. We've done this dance before. Frankly it's pretty disgusting the way the mods have become tools of group harassment on these boards.
21 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:Er, because you're grossly exaggerating our points. I mean, how does doing that further the conversation, hmmm?
Taking your ideas to their logical conclusions and/or getting at the root of your proposals seems pretty productive to me.
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1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:
When you treat us with respect
No you won't and have made that pretty clear. For example. Explain to me how "Nuh uh, you're wrong." furthers the conversation in any meaningful way. Explain to me why you've decided to completely derail the conversation in favor of attacking my posting style.
5 minutes ago, Corvid said:Evidently not, otherwise Pablo wouldn't have said the things that started this thread in the first place.
Ok, everything they can short of a massive overhaul to the entire game and probably their business model.
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2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:
You don't see how you're just typing exaggerated drivel?
You don't see how this is nothing but an ad hom attack?
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1 minute ago, Corvid said:
Less emphasis on pure stat scaling, more on enemies gaining new abilities at higher levels.
I think they've already done about all the can in terms of the rest of your post and we're actually in complete agreement here. What you're talking about are new mechanics and those don't require a complete revamp of damage or anything else. Nullifiers, arbitration drones, or Nox for example force us to engage with enemies differently without significant changes to damage numbers.
1 minute ago, Felsagger said:You are rambling for the sake of rambling. Read what other people are saying. Read carefully. Don't make suppositions without analyzing their input.
My not agreeing with people doesn't mean I didn't read what they wrote. Agree with them if you want. That's why there's a "like" button. Don't spam ad hom at me please.
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5 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:
So who does warframe cater to?
Now you're just being negative for negativity's sake. Warframe hasn't fundamentally changed. It's a looter. Catering to fans of looters.
1 minute ago, Corvid said:Sure, in the mirror dimension. Here, I'm talking about the exact opposite.
Ok, explain to me how you propose to take hundreds of abilities/weapons/etc and force them to have similar effects on enemies without limiting what makes them unique.
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31 minutes ago, Corvid said:
You misunderstand.
No, you're still talking about limiting variety. There's no way to "balance" hundreds of unique abilities/weapons/whatever.
32 minutes ago, Corvid said:I don't just focus on one game at a time.
Which I'd encourage others to do as well.
33 minutes ago, Corvid said:you aren't actually interested in listening to what the proponents of challenge actually have to say
I'm sorry that's the impression you've gotten, but I just don't agree with the conclusions you're reaching. There are strengths to Warframe and it's disingenuous pretending they aren't weakened to make way for hypothetical new avenues.
37 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:limit these enemies to higher level zones
When? After a few years of grinding? Months? You don't see the conflict in fostering Dynasty Warrior players and then expecting them to Dark Souls? Cuphead types forced to grind though Diablo to get there?
Oh and there's no need to be snide. The Wolf was just an example. Point stands divorced from accessibility. Revamped damage is effecting time to kill, not necessarily "difficulty".
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7 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:
No, I'm not.
What exactly do think you're going to accomplish with this? You're transparent.
Yes you are. Enemies requiring the gear I've accumulated after however many years of playing are enemies the rest of the playerbase are pelting with marshmallows.
The Wolf if you need a very recent example.
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15 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:
No one wants to shoot marshmallows at enemies
What you're advocating is to make this a reality for the majority of the playerbase.
17 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:That is already anti-casual and they are doing it.
Which won't appeal to the more hardcore crowd and could alienate casual players. Waste of dev time better spent elsewhere imo.
11 minutes ago, Corvid said:Warframe, as it stands, is a mess.
What you call "a mess" I call variety.
11 minutes ago, Corvid said:Note the badge on my icon. I've been here since the beginning.
Yeah? The game has provided you with 9 years worth of content. Some level of burnout isn't to be expected? It's unreasonable for me to assume you're ready for a completely different game?
18 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:being able to solo that Monster that wiped the floor with you an hour prior
So what would we need to accomplish this. A steady influx of new gear and enemies with a complete rework of previous. Probably a new business model. Variety will need to be sacrificed. In other words a completely different game. Can we just have more bosses like Exploiter or some puzzles like the old raids? Cause that doesn't require trashing 9 years worth of development.
30 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:..And I am a casual player.
I'm not and am advocating content not be catered to me personally. I absolutely loved Railjack, ESO, Arbitrations, Liches, etc. I'm only one player though and the game doesn't exist with just me.
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Just now, Corvid said:
Vanquish
Not played it, so can't comment intelligently on the "challenge" presented, but Warframe should offer a unique experience, no?
How Arbitrations are genius and why we need more of it
in General Discussion
Posted
Everyone will have a different opinion as to who that's referring to. Assumption would be there's some kind of gap that's justified rebalancing content. For my part I've seen a wide enough range of players in arbitrations to think it a solid example in support of expanding the philosophy.