Tuna4242

"virtually unkillable" Oh like revenant or gauss? An idle game you say? Ever play octavia? If you don't like dante, don't play him! If you're worried about a frame being unkillable, able to kill things while afk and able to make teammates unkillable, that's literally octavia....Except octavia scales into late game better than dante does, and with even less effort than dante, and she has a movement speed buff on top of her invisibility. On top of that revenant is way way harder to kill than dante is, but for some reason you want to act like dante is a problem? I am sorry big man but your post makes exactly zero sense, and the only explanation for your post is that you haven't played octavia or revenant because both of those frames have the ""issues"" that you complain exist on dante. You're free to spend money or not, that is your choice! There is nothing wrong with spending money or not spending money if you choose that, I don't think anyone will judge you either way, however your complaints about dante are flatly WRONG and I bet you're the kind of person DE listened to when they GUTTED him 8 days after release.

YOU are the one that didn't understand what was said. They did not need to kowtow at all, they could have mentioned all the feedback, and explained why they didn't want to go with it, but they did not do that, they selectively ignored it. You should actually read the words before you act like you understand them, you misunderstood me. I never said DE HAD to do exactly what players wanted, I simply asked that DE addressed all the feedback, but you don't understand that. YOU ARE THE ONE THAT MISUNDERSTOOD, reread what I said before you claim to understand what I said. If you don't read someone's original post, and then claim that they are infact the one not understanding, maybe you have some sort of problem, a sort of complex. YOU NEED TO REREAD BECAUSE YOU ARE THE ONE THAT DOES NOT UNDERSTAND.

I will take nearly any compromise over LoS on tragedy because it's just exactly the wrong way to nerf things, especially tragedy. Dark verse already requires LoS, so nerfing tragedy with LoS is just the 100% incorrect way to nerf it, I'd take a range nerf or a damage nerf way before an addition LoS check. The power fantasy in this hoard shooter kind of gets muted when a piece of railing or your own model can block your abilities.

People say I am wrong to say DE is "selectively listening" but this proves that I was right, DE is 100% ignoring the HUGE MAJORITY of the forums, and they are going out of their way and actively trying to ignore what is in front of their eyes. This is a clear insult to the intelligence of players, we all know that DE has seen what we have said, but DE wants to focus on mesa instead.

Don't worry, your feedback was heard, loud and clear....DE will add LoS to all of your favourite frames! I bet you didn't see that coming, because it wasn't in your line of sight I suppose.

I haven't been this cynical and skeptical of DE for years, maybe around the time of the loot-chance-anomaly controversy several years ago.

Personally I have all but given up, I'm just playing gauss atm because for some reason gauss is allowed to be strong but dante had to be nerfed. Maybe DE just wanted players to invest time/money into dante so that they could nerf him and make players move on.

"Op stuff back" He wasn't overpowered, look at the other frames in the game before you call pre-nerf dante "op". LoS on tragedy is an unnecessary and buggy addition which makes the frame feel and play worse. It's not even about power, it's about user experience.....but sure, insult and belittle players with genuine and valid criticism.

This set of ideas seems good but I doubt they would ever all make it into the game, unfortunately.

Honestly it's the first time in a while I have seen a player basically say "Yippee! I love augments, surely an augment will solve this in the future, more reliance on augments please!" Still I am the one that gets mocked by newer players and by people who think having powerful gear is bad for the game, I am the one that can't enter a mission without having 4chan alt-right terminology at me because I disagreed with DE.

DE were fairly swift when they told us that they listened, and they would be "fixing" (not an actual fix) LoS on dante's tragedy. DE were strong in the words saying that they would be adding in the buff for his birds which they took out (as it was a bug at the time), DE even fixed the complaint about overguard messing with certain frames/builds. All of that is great and whatnot, it's good, IT IS DEFINITELY GOOD. However, I feel as though LoS makes the game worse and less fun overall, and many many many many players are begging to have LoS on tragedy be removed. Dante already wants LoS on dark verse to prime enemies most of the time, so putting LoS on tragedy simply makes dante feel worse, without much actual substantial reason that DE has explained. This seems to be the main piece of feedback and DE does not want to even mention it, but it's obvious that they have seen it, and I do not know why they are listening to everything else but not this......? Maybe it would be good if DE could say WHY they can't even talk about this main piece of feedback, but it feels a bit weird to thank DE and to give them credit for listening when they listen to everything except for the number 1 issue. I could also use with not being mocked and insulted by warframe partners/creators for having genuine complaints, warframe partners should not be belittling and insulting players who have real things to say.

Bandaid augments have been a serious problem with the game for years but there hasn't been a way to easily fix that issue, dante may be solid but he feels clunkier, buggier and less fun. In my personal opinion, fun should be the number 1 priority in a videogame, I do not design warframe and my word ultimately means nothing judging by what has happened, but a large group of people find LoS on tragedy to be unnecessary and unenjoyable. I hope DE at least addresses the people begging to have LoS on tragedy removed because it sucks when you're being ignored or only SELECTIVELY listened to.

Logically it would make sense if DE purposefully designed the new frame to be strong (maybe they didn't understand fully how popular he would be considering his farm is easy/fun), which brings in attention for the game, just for them to throw on a LoS mechanic (which players do not enjoy, and it is buggy, whether you consider new LoS or the old system), so that players have more reason to go to other frames. The brand new frame gets 5 minutes of fame (or 8 days I guess), before players get incentive to move on a bit. HOWEVER this doesn't fully explain everything, dante is still usable, he's just less enjoyable and buggier now. It still feels like a bait and switch without DE explaining a bit more, if DE explained their intentions and why they've refused to address taking LoS off then that would pretty quickly clear the idea that it was a deliberate attempt to do this to players.

Dark verse already being LoS is the reason why pupsker was so wrong when he made fun of people against putting LoS on tragedy, if you want tragedy to do good damage beyond low level fodder you need to apply dark verse anyway. It seems like a very bizarre decision to add LoS to tragedy unless DE wants dante to not nuke low levels the same way saryn, banshee, gauss and others can. Maybe I would understand why DE was doing this if they planned on adding LoS to most other frames but that would seem like a terrible idea, so what on earth is DE doing? It's so odd.

Interesting read, DE has listened to some of the feedback but I am extremely confused as to why they refuse to even mention the idea of removing LoS, DE is 1000% adamant on keeping LoS (which many players consider to be unfun, buggy, and unenjoyable). I find it quite confusing as to why DE is this strong on this particular stance since they haven't come out and explained why they won't acknowledge that piece of feedback. I hope DE at the very least, comes out and explains why they believe dante needs LoS because they are giving themselves more work by changing how LoS works instead of just taking it away.

Honestly I do not know why they would choose to add in work, increase their workload, directly in opposition of what players want....just so they can keep LoS. This seems like a very firm line in the sand, they're willing to make themselves have to work more, while ignoring the people wanting LoS removed, at seemingly any cost. I need to know why DE insists on keeping a mechanic many consider to be unfun and clunky to play with, it just boggles the mind.

The current idea for line of sight going forward is that within 5m LoS is assumed, and beyond that the checks are done. At the moment this is quite bugged and potentially even worse than the old system. Obviously, DE wants line of sight but I do not know why they are so strongly in favour of line of sight....to the point where they will seemingly (imo) ignore the flood of angry screaming saying "please take LoS away". It's just weird seeing as saryn and gauss exist.

I'm curious as to why they are SO EXTREMELY adamant on having line of sight. Clearly, DE has put their foot in the sand and has said that line of sight is a must. Players have made it clear that they do not enjoy or want line of sight, and DE has obviously seen this feedback. I am not entirely sure why DE values line of sight so much, but it seems like they are doing their best to keep line of sight on dante. Furthermore, it's clear that DE wants to take the game in a direction even further and further away from CC and towards damage, but not beyond line of sight. Personally I don't love this direction but DE ultimately decides on how THEIR game is made and that's what they want I guess. Why on earth are DE so adamant about line of sight? I am just confused.

I saw some people in game say that dante should have been nerfed because having overguard is bad (they didn't specify why) being able to nuke (in a hoard shooter) is bad (they failed to respond when I asked about other nuke frames). I think DE wants to cater to this line of thinking, or at least that is what I have to believe after seeing DE's actions.

Neck stronger than formula 1 drivers.

No! Go back to saryn!! (obviously joking)

reb promised that the power fantasy would remain but I am not sure if she and I agree on what even constitutes a power fantasy

Players feel scammed, players feel ignored, players feel insulted. A week after a brand new, very well designed frame is released, and a handful of players complained about a warframe being strong, DE swiftly GUTTED him. I am not sure if DE has this intention from the start, or if it's purely a reaction to a handful of players who hate having power. We want the LoS check remove entirely.

I feel like DE is gonna see "dante needs more nerfs" out of the corner of their eye and immediately use it to invalidate the tsunami of players asking to have his LoS removed.

Line of sight on a magical frame of war in a hoard shooter power fantasy game is always going to feel bad. Maybe dante without LoS would be more powerful than what DE wants but reb promised that the "tweaks" would be "careful" and it just feels garbage to see DE ignore the issue players are screaming about. Saryn is allowed to exist without buggy LoS requirements so clearly it's possible to have strong warframes without slapping line of sight on them, and players will continue to ask for that until the devs listen. I genuinely feel like DE care.