TinFoilMkIV
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Posts posted by TinFoilMkIV
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2 minutes ago, BETAOPTICS said:
Yep. I mean heck think of speed runners and Mario. ...
Yea. And stuff like that is incredibly hard to avoid, and only gets harder the more tools you give to players, and Warframe gives us a hell of a lot of tools...
The difference here is that stuff like Mario had it's own sense of rewards just for playing it. Warframe does as well, but it puts a lot of very desirable rewards into completion and other things that are based on raw efficiency and clear time. A large portion of rewards fall into "Kill all the things as fast as you possibly can for best results", and most of the rest fall into "Get this thing done, as fast and as many times as you can". I think the greater issue is the sheer difference in the rewards obtained from playing "normally" versus meta tactics. A really easy and obvious (if not necessarily the best) example is focus gains. You can spend an hour playing high level content and walk out with a few thousand... Or grab a designated setup, run solo and net 100k in a matter of minutes.
The difference between this and speed running stuff, is that speed runs are a challenge against other players, and yourself. Generally the record is the reward. The space Warframe is in is closer to giving out rare benefits or bonuses every time the game is cleared, and more based on quantity than the quality of the run.
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9 minutes ago, shootaman777 said:
Since this is just an idea, I'm not going to mess around with the values I've mentioned, and leave it at the conceptual. How does this sound?
Not bad for a try. Certainly miles better than what I'd usually hear from people complaining about the game being too easy.
For part 1, the flaw being allowing abilities before hand encourages stacking a bunch of decent duration support abilities. So Rhino roar, Chroma armor, Oberon's rez heal and armor. I could easily see the meta becoming, stack stat buffs, vaporize all enemies that aren't dps gated because the squad is doing several hundred times the damage that nearly any other comp could put out.
The big flaw for idea number 2 that I can think of is Valkyr. Hysteria can be channelled, so a full squad of Valkyrs could likely tear the entire encounter to shreds.
Again, ultimately creating what I consider to be proper challenge is going to require flat out removing player tools. Like warframe powers, statuses, uncapped dps... That kind of stuff easily lends itself to becoming very frustrating, and very very different from the regular gameplay. Not necessarily a bad thing, but tricky to balance out the fun factor while not missing the one combination that breaks all the challenge.
I'd be up for throwing some ideas around, though this thread isn't the best place for that kinda thing. I also suspect the chance of DE getting to this kind of content any time in the near future is pretty low, but you never know.
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2 hours ago, shootaman777 said:
It's quite simple, really. The devs can release content that's difficult (not something that has its difficulty lowered) when we go against it with our endgame weapons. Something that we need our 'cheese' to be able to lower the difficulty of to challenge it in the first place, not something that becomes incredibly easy with 'cheese'. Like JV in the aftermath of Update 18.13.
And how exactly do you propose this "Simple" solution be achieved? I see a lot of people go around saying "Just make something hard, it's easy!" yet so very few specifics on how to pull that off. I suspect the task of creating something that actually feels challenging to someone with access to every item in the game, is going to be virtually impossible without ignoring a good portion of their tools.
For example. Let's make a Lancer with several billion hp, perfect accuracy and insta kills instead of dealing damage. Invis + zakti + covert lethality. Okay lets make it immune to finishers, otherwise it dies to any invis + dagger. Now what about all those pesky powers that can be spammed for nearly permanent CC... well I guess our "hard" enemies will need to be immune to CC, drain massive ammounts of energy, or just be immune to all powers. Oh wait, there's a handful of warframes that can just build walls/decoys and just never get targeted, I suppose we'd better make our new units dispel abilities as well. So now we've reached the point where an enemy resistant to cheese and brute force is basically a massive bullet sponge that disables basically anything that isn't raw damage.
Obviously that's not the only path that can be taken, but it's the obvious and "simple" solution to enemies that keel over when certain tools are brought to the table. In it's current state, I'm not sure Warframe is fit for truly challenging combat experiences, other than perhaps the time trial against other players records idea that we may be getting. If people have suggestions on proper tactics that aren't sheerly rage inducing, I'd like to hear. -
Yea, it's got serious issues with the consistency of it's mobility. With some of the new charging and hovering mechanics locking you in place, to new scaling sending you miles farther than you'll ever need travel in a straight line outside the plains. Also I'm starting to think having significant scaling off a stat as important to Zephyr as duration is not a great idea.
It very much needs to lose the restrictions on movement the charged version has, as well as gain some way to control the distance traveled with the standard version.
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Here's my feedback specifically on the new Tailwind for Zephyr, because the ability is complex enough to deserve it.
Mobility and player control is all over the place and inconsistent
- charge time is far too long and completely immobilizes Zephyr
- uncharged is instantaneous and can travel huge distances now (between "why didn't I just dodgeroll" and "several seconds with my face in a railing")
- scaling on tailwind causes distance traveled to vary massively between builds
- There is no way to interrupt tailwind to cut it short or otherwise influence it's distance and speed while playing
- charged launch version allows very minor control on the ascent then locks Zephyr in place during the "hover"
- dodging or bullet jumping during the hover causes those actions to queue till after the hover is completed, regardless of how long that may be. (dodging locks all actions as well)
- Melee attacks instantly cancel the hover ability, and appears to be the only thing capable of breaking the effect early other than another tailwind.
Nearly all of the context or timing specific aspects of the ability have poor to no indication of when they are or aren't in play
- the hover effect seems to be constant right up until the moment it cuts off
- there is no time or other (apparent) indication of when the hover will end
- The charged launch can be interrupted with an aerial tailwind, which becomes a problem when there's no indication of whether your tailwind is free or not.
- Tailwind will only be free once Zephyr has reached the completely stationary hover portion of the ability
- Divebomb angle is very strict and has no indicators that it will activate over standard tailwind
- failing a divebomb, and activating a downwards tailwind, leaves Zephyr faceplanting harmlessly at enemies feet and likely dragging her face across the ground for a good bit as well.
On paper the ability is interesting, but it's just not very practical without a build tailored to a specific tileset.
Right now I believe the high end of tailwind travel distance is too far for nearly everything that isn't the plains, and it becomes more of an issue due to being tied heavily to duration. I believe duration is too important to Zephyr's survivability (via turbulence) to be intentionally cut down significantly in most builds. Tailwind desperately needs a way for players to control it's distance during actual play, and not through extensive testing to create a build that may or may not be able to hit a personal sweet sport for only a portion of the games content.
Giving grounded tailwind fully directional dash is a nice convenience addition, however it actually hurts some practical functionality of the ability. Having a controlled, and quick, launch ability, can be very useful, as it hinders orientation and aim far less than rapid high angle camera movements. With how mobile Warframes already are, and how easy it is to leave the ground on demand, I feel that having to leave the ground to activate the camera based directional dash is perfectly acceptable.
I believe Tailwind needs a better method for distance control, as well as to remove nearly all of the mobility restrictions the charged version currently has. If Divebomb is to be kept as a specific activation, then it could really stand to use some improvements, at the very least the angle it activates at needs an increase. Currently the required angle for a divebomb feels far too steep. It feels like I have to be directly over an enemy regardless just because of how strict the angle is. It's technically better than nothing, but it doesn't feel like it.
What I'd like to see from Tailwind.
- Allow standard Tailwind to be interrupted or otherwise cut short to allow distance control
- fix the dodge locking issue
- allow charged launch to be angled
- greatly reduce charge time and/or allow some form of movement while charging
- fade out air control during charged launch, not fully cancelling movement until well into the hover, if at all.
- add visual feedback on the hover visual effect when it's nearing it's end and/or add a time to the ability icon.
- Allow free tailwind to activate earlier into the charged launch, preferably with some visual feedback when it's available if there's going to be a window.
- Expand the angle at which aerial tailwind becomes divebomb
- add some form of feedback indicating when tailwind will be a divebomb
- have grounded launch different than the aerial launch, these do not need to have as much overlap as they currently have.
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After having a bit more time to think on things, I think that Tailwind needs to not use duration for it's distance. Tubulence is far to important to Zephyr's survivability to drastically cut duration stats for more controlled Tailwind distance. There also really needs to be a way to have some control over the distance Tailwind is travelling, regardless.
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1 minute ago, Caelward said:
I think I'd be happier with a compromise between old Tailwind and the current ...
Yea, I agree, the entire charge mechanic is where things completely fall apart. Super restrictive on the movement, and feels like it will rarely offer any real advantage.
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8 minutes ago, Kurayami_No_Yenshi said:
that they REMOVED the old takeoff to force the use of this charged effect to make it jump vertically.
Okay, that makes it much more clear. And yea, you're right. you can simulate the old takeoff by aiming up as you hit the ground, but you are right in saying it's not quite the same, specially in regards to keeping your aim.
I'm not against having the grounded version still do some form of takeoff type deal even uncharged. I don't think it's to much to ask to need to do a quick hop to get the fully aimed aerial version when you need it. The aimed grounded version does have a convenience factor, but I'd gladly give that up for better functionality.
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3 minutes ago, Kurayami_No_Yenshi said:
... which is no longer possible as the regular takeoff without the long charge and locked hover no longer exists. ...
I think you may have an issue with whatever keyboard/controller you're using, as I was just testing and you very much can do an instant grounded tailwind. If you hold the button it does the charge up version. Either you're holding it longer than intended on accident, or the input itself is getting stuck.
That said, the point about being able to gain altitude while keeping your aim is valid.
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2 minutes ago, Kurayami_No_Yenshi said:
... which registers that im on the ground again and uses the vertical takeoff.
Okay I think I get what you're saying, and I did forget that old tailwind was always vertical while grounded. That did change. However, unless I'm misinterpreting how you were using it before, you can still do an instant tailwind as soon as you touch ground again as long as you don't accidentally press to long and start the charged version. You do have to now adjust the camera for your trajectory though.
Also just in from a bit more testing. the "normal" tailwind does appear to be completely uninterruptible, however the charged version sort of is? You can fully cancel it with another tailwind, though you do not get the free version. You can also bullet jump and dodge during the charged launch, though their effects on movement seem greatly reduced, and will always end with Zephyr going into the locked hover. Bullet jumping during the hover does not lock any controls (that I've found yet), but does result in a bullet jump activating immediately when the hover ends.
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6 minutes ago, Kurayami_No_Yenshi said:
... So no its not the same, the better effect was taken away for this absolutely ineffective gimmick.
So you're saying the previous tailwind could cancel other landing animations and such? I certainly wasn't a Zephyr main before, so I don't assume to know all the tricks.
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Seems it's no secret that Zephyr's tailwind is a mess right now, so I'm making this thread to gather info on how exactly this ability works. It definitely needs some work to be sure.
So after a bit of testing here's what I was able to find.
- While Grounded
- tapping tailwind launches Zephyr in whatever direction the the camera is looking (previously vertical launch)
- holding tailwind will charge the ability, causing Zephyr to launch straight up, with minor control during the ascent, then hover in place for a time depending on the charge.
- the charging animation itself locks Zephyr in place while casting
- can bullet jump and roll during the charged launch, but effects on movement are reduced, still ends in hovering
- can cast other abilities during charged tailwind, including hovering.
- While Hovering
- Zephyr cannot move. She can freely aim and fire guns.
- using melee immediately cancels the hover and does the appropriate attack
- using a dodge roll locks all other actions till the hover ends then dodges in the direction originally pressed (have to assume this is a bug)
- bullet jumping does not lock any inputs but will immediately bullet jump when the hover ends
- using tailwind again cancels the hover and activates a free tailwind.
- The free tailwind ONLY activates once Zephyr has reached max altitude and settled fully into the hover.
- While in the Air
- looking almost straight down uses the old dive bomb instead
- otherwise does the standard tailwind
- cannot be charged in the air
- Tailwind flight animation does not appear to be cancellable by any means
I will add any new findings as they come up.
So, onto my personal feedback for the ability. The utter lack of control with the hover mechanic is pretty awful. Attempting to dodge locks all controls till the hover ends, which I assume is a bug, and needs to be fixed ASAP. Accidentally locking yourself with a decently charged hover is going to be death in most cases. The difference in direction control over the charged and uncharged version is boggling, and really unintuitive. The charging animation is long and completely immobilizes Zephyr. The hover itself locks Zephyr in place once she reaches the peak of the launch, meaning you better already know where you want to go when you get there. The hover duration also needs some kind of feedback before it ends, as right now the visuals appear to be constant right until it completely cuts out, and there is no timer on the ability itself.
The free tailwind also could really use a bigger window, as currently you need to wait until Zephyr has come to a stop and settled into the hover, otherwise another activation of tailwind has full cost, as opposed to free, which is a very big difference, and again has no feedback for when it's in play (that I've noticed). Speaking of lack of feedback, the divebomb mechanic offers no noticeable feedback when it's going to activate over normal tailwind. I could probably live with this if the range of it's angle was expanded. Currently the required angle for a divebomb feels far too steep. It feels like I have to be directly over an enemy regardless just because of how strict the angle is. It's technically better than nothing, but it doesn't feel like it. I've had several attempts that left me faceplanting at an enemies feet harmlessly, and then carrying on to dig a trench several yards long with my face. It just doesn't feel right, or good.
What I'd like to see from Tailwind.
- Allow standard Tailwind to be interrupted or otherwise cut short to allow distance control
- fix the dodge locking issue
- allow charged launch to be angled
- reduce charge time and/or allow some form of movement while charging
- fade out air control during charged launch, not fully cancelling movement until well into the hover, if at all.
- add visual feedback on the hover visual effect when it's nearing it's end and/or add a time to the ability icon.
- Allow free tailwind to activate earlier into the charged launch, preferably with some visual feedback when it's available if there's going to be a window.
- Expand the angle at which aerial tailwind become divebomb
- add some form of feedback indicating when tailwind will be a divebomb
- have grounded launch different than the aerial launch, these do not need to have as much overlap as they currently have.
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Yea the rotating laser towers is the vault I mentioned missing the exit rift. And it makes that route really obnoxious to get out of since you have to backtrack through the whole thing. The destroyed route actually creates a rift in the big room outside the console area so it's not as bad but still requires backtracking to get out.
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As of the current 20.0.2 version the small spy vault with the floating wall jump panels is currently bugged. While playing as a client the target orb was being very finicky whether it would activate its target panel while wall latched or not, took several attempts to get it to the final panel in the first half where it just refused to activate for me or the other client player in that vault. As a Solo Host I was able to clear that first section as normal however the circle of panels around the spinning laser tower seems completely broken as the panels seem to reset when reaching the second panel. After several attempts the second panel would cause the first one to light back up, I could go back and forth between them activating them however it would never progress past that point.
The pathway through the destroyed version of this vault had no issues that I noticed.
After further testing the first set of wall panels appear to be able to get bugged in the same was as the second even while hosting as I had the second panel just resetting the first constantly making it impossible to progress through the non-destroyed version.
The large open vault with the pit in the center with the console directly across the pit seems to be missing the exit rift that used to be in the console room.
So in conclusion, the wall jump course is broken and currently not a viable route since it's prone to straight up braking making it unlikely to be completable in any given run. It does have a valid alternative route. And another vault is missing it's exit rift making it take significantly longer to get out of.
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The first time he shows up in his questline before you retrieve his custom Grakatas he's using a latron.
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I can't honestly claim grind has decreased, but it has been redistributed in a generally more enjoyable way. There are a few areas/items that are still absurdly grind heavy but it's entirely doable to ignore such things.
They've added enough new things to work towards that you can really sink a lot of time into the game, be making progress, and not have to go into grind mode.
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Selling several Riven Mods, the thread will be updated with new rivens and sold ones removed.
IGN: TinFoilMkIV
always willing to negotiate prices
Bolto
Buzlok
Grakata
Miter
Tetra
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So I'm not much of a trader and only got back into the game again recently, so trying to gauge the prices of rivens is rather difficult for me at the moment, so asking for some help on this one.
The riven in question I have is
Tetra Vexi-ignicon * maxed out, never re-rolled*
- +45.6 damage to grineer
- +105.4% electricity damage
- +95.5% heat damage
Also wondering how radiation is considered to stack up against grineer these days since my own knowledge may be a bit dated.
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Seriously, I thought one of the major points for this redesign was to make blueprints more visible and decrease the chance of it looking like you can only buy weapons for platinum. The current version seems to have gone quite the opposite direction. Heck even searching "blueprint" fails to find any results if you don't check the blueprints box. I had to come to the forums to even find out how to get to the blueprints.
I was really expecting them to either occupy the same base category or put the blueprints for credits up front.
EDIT: Also blueprints without a regular source need to note that they drop somewhere in game. I get not specifying their exact drop locations, but stuff like Miter and Ivara really should note that the blueprints can be found in game.
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Overall I do generally like that the Operator has dialogue now, but I can't help but feel that it takes away from the players own interpretation of their character on the level that we had before when we were completely silent.
So a thought I had while I was playing was to try giving the player control over how and when we actually respond or interact with the situation and other communications.
If anyone here is familiar with the second Zone of the Enders game you'll probably have a pretty good idea where I'm going with this. In that game the player could prompt either a positive or negative response from the main character pretty much whenever anyone said something to you and even during many cutscenes. For the most part it was just for flavor and didn't really effect anything, but it was nice to be able to have some control over how your character responded to things people said or did while still maintaining his personality. There were a few points where it did actually have an in game effect, as far as I remember it was mostly that when your computer made a weapon recommendation, you could agree to it and it would automatically equip it, and ignoring or saying no would just do nothing.
I'd really like to see something similar applied to warframe, instead of the operator turning into mission voiceover npc 2.0. I mean we get a response to most main mission announcements and such. It would be nice to have a bit of control over whether we want to bother acknowledging or commenting on something since we are supposed to be the operator. Plus I know there are both people that prefer their character more silent and mysterious as well as those who just find it annoying and wish the added dialogue would go away.
This could of course be expanded upon for more player control over their type of response and even given gameplay related mechanics whether it be granting limited forms of communication to the team or npc interactions, even potentially going as far as to be able to influence player preferences in the type and frequency of messages they get in game from the chose mission control npcs. But that's for down the road if something like this were to happen.
I feel the operator messages would benefit greatly from more player input, both from an immersion standpoint as well as potential future gameplay improvements.
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I agree with your points on 1 and 2, I also would really like to see more interactive effects. And absolutely for point 3 as well, I almost never use my focus ability just because of this. With decent gear there's almost no reason to ever use it, and in most dangerous situations where you might need something out of the ordinary, the limitations on it are more likely to kill you than help.
As you said 4 is well covered plenty of other places, and 5 is more of an early work in progress issue, I can wait on it.
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I have to agree with the OP that I don't really care for the focus avatar/projection/whatever being the actual image of the operator. It's an interesting idea but doesn't really fit in practice.
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yea its really unfortunate that some weapons that are mechanically solid are completely worthless in pvp due to IPS damage types.
Also thank you for providing a graph and numbers, interesting info to see.
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Really good stuff as stated before.
You did a great job bringing both characters to life. Nef Anyo isn't the kind of guy I like but i do enjoy his character, and of course Regor just became one of the most awesome warframe villains to date even with how little of him we've seen.
Rare Container after Raids
in General Discussion
Posted
Yea, I'd really love if there was some vaguely consistent reason to actually search all the hidden rooms in any given map. They've got some really cool out of the way locations, that ultimately are just not worth your time.