OrionTCB

I agree, but I have seen what DE did over the years (~9 years now), they RARELY backdown on stuff like this. I remember when Limbo got transformed into DIO, it was super fun, but the "projectile are frozen in time for both enemies and players" part made him disruptive, so he got smacked, I get the reason why, some times after this (or at the same time, can't remember), his ult could nuke entire rooms 'cause it did damage based on %max health of all enemies inside it. It was also super fun, but didn't last even 1 week, not sure either. It's been years. They NEVER reverted any nerf toward it. On the same topic, Khora's whip could go through walls, nerfed, never reverted. Melee hits could aswell, never again. Spin2Win died with Maiming Strike, I had fun with it but got boring. Berserker (before it got renamed to Berserker Fury) was a must have, it died 8 years after its release, it got replaced with Primed Fury on every single build. Explosives weapons (such as Bramma and Zarr) got their ammo killed, everyone complained (mostly the Monkey spammer), did it get reverted ? No. I'm not defending DE here, just devs as a whole. Devs don't make decisions, the market does. Also, devs have pride in what they do, if they think that what they did is for the best, then it is, we have no say in their business. If they do get financial losses and their image gets damaged, maybe they'll do something. Honestly I don't have much faith in DE since Reb took charge, it got better recently, but here we are. I agree. Overguard was the main target. Personally I think it gave a little too much OG (I'm playing Dante since release as of now) compared to Styanax/Frost's Augments. I know, they're Augments, they are optional, so they shouldn't give too much, while Dante is the official OG spammer, so it's obvious he's the best at OG generation. There was NO reason to give Tragedy a LOS check. I'm sure it's mostly due to low level nuking, you cannot do that on SP (unless they're primed, etc). Look at Nova's 1st Augment when fused with Titania on Fissure, it got killed. Why ? 'cause it killed low levels too fast for its own good I guess. I miss it, but whatever. I mean, it's not that bad, yeah LOS as a whole sucks and its implementation sucks even more, but so what ? If that's how the game's supposed to be, so be it, what can you do besides complaining and almost sending not-alive threats to the devs (I'm not saying someone did, you get the idea, right ?). Was it a mistake to add LOS, nah, Dante is still strong af (not Mirage/Saryn strong but he's still pretty good) ? Is it a $&*^ move to change a product after someone paid real money for it ? Absolutely. You have all the rights to compalin, please do. If you can, ask for a refund, maybe they'll do it. Sue them even if that's what you want to do (might be extreme). I have made a post earlier in this thread right here. What I meant it as literal, I have not read +750 messages. I may have read up to 100, but it was all the same ; Dante's Tragedy got nerfed for nothing. OG is disruptive, it's getting fixed next time, good. Nezha got reborn then killed, $&*^ move. Eximii (plural for Eximus) are now immune to all CC, that sucks as well. I know very well why LOS is garbage, I have seen it, I tested it on every single Warframe before I made my first post on the subject. I abhor LOS as a whole, If it was me, I would remove LOS from many spells. It would create chaos, but what about it ? It's a PvE game, PvP doesn't exist (Conclave should be removed at this point). Only new players and wanna-be always first will complain that a Saryn destroyes everything. I have never complained about it, I like it. My mindset on this is "cool, another player does everything for me, I don't have to do anything like I usualy do, I can chill". That's just childish. I may have missed stuff, but I will make my point clear. I don't like LOS, at all. Do I think it should be removed ? Maybe, if they do that's cool, I'm all for it, if they don't, that's too bad, I mean what can I do, I already complained about it. DE made several changes on the game that I would like to be reversed, but they never did. Maybe this time they will 'cause the amplitude it took was way over the top. If it does 👍. Also, the YT gaslighting is sad.

I haven't read the ~750 replies on this post, so it may have already been pointed out and/or suggested, but I did see some posts suggesting ways to fix the current LOS problem. Personally, I would find it best to keep LOS at this point, I don't think DE will (and should) break. I mean yeah, it makes them look bad 'cause "they don't listen to the community", but devs shouldn't blindly do what the community wants them to do. There are times where devs should bend the knee, but I don't think this the one. I still think this was a bad move on DE's part ; the change was rushed and greatly impaired Dante's nuking capabilities because the applied LOS check was utter garbage. Anyway, keep the LOS as is, just fix it for real. As of now, Dante's model/hitbox blocks the LOS check (this includes Warframes and bodies). This is just ridiculous. Now, the suggestion that I have seen spread and that I'm most content with: For records, I have already read 100th of messages and posted 1 (now 3) myself here : And also, since someone misunderstood me (this post may or may not be badly worded), I made a clear response of my POV :

Many have said (like myself) that the overguard change won't do anything. DE missed the mark. Like someone already said, I highly doubt that DE will revert the LOS requirement. I still think that it's a bad move, 1) LOS is broken 2) Why not Saryn, Mirage, etc. ? Why just Dante ? Maybe in the future they will get their due and simply disappear from the game, but right now, Dante took an underserved shot. Either, apply diminishing return, reduce range to mimic Dark Verse (30m → 20m) or reduce damage multiplier (×3 → ×2). I know, as of now, DE is currently looking into LOS to fix it once and for all, maybe ? It's just too bad, but won't change too much. I'll hijack this post to redirect to the comment I made on the hotfix post.

Wordwarden buff is welcomed. Overguard nerfs were obvious and won't change anything. Pageflight's hidden effect won't be missed I guess ? But, Tragedy's LOS requirement is a bad move. Yeah, the spell is good, it's an ultimate ability, it should be strong. You could've nerfed its range to match Dark Verse (30m → 20m) and/or its damage multiplier (×2 instead of ×3). It doesn't help that LOS check is garbage in this game, there's a lot of inconsistency that many other players have already mentioned. Now, why do I think it's a bad move. One, this is a nerf for a nerf, there's no other reason behind it, just to keep the "muh balancing philosophy" intact. Do not even try to pull out the "it's disruptive" card, look at Saryn. Second, what about those then : they do not need any LOS. Some may just be inconsistency, blame Simulacrum. You could argue that for some of them, physic does the trick (Banshee). But Dante's Tragedy uses Void magic, it goes through space and time, so nothing related to "physics" and "logic" is valid here. Be consistent. If Equinox's bleed goes through walls, why not Dante's ? If you were to apply LOS check on every frame 'cause of ~muh balance~, frames like Banshee (who has no ult) should simply be removed from the game and Saryn (one of the strongest frame, ever) would suffer. An explosion (like a bomb, Zarr/Bramma), should be blocked by LOS. Banshee's abilities shouldn't ; waves travel through matter, etc.