[[Ambulas Reborn] Ambulas Boss Battle and overall Ambulas's rework FEEDBACKS. Underwhelming? Weaker than Bursas?]

Just now, AlphaPHENIX said:

Perhaps but given that the boss fight is on a timmer and you need to hack two of them at once, well at least have the timmer increased.

yeah, timer increase is ok with me...

[Is WARFRAME viable to boss fights with Dark Souls or Doom 3 degree?]

Idk guys, just a thought I guess

I realize that...yeah...I guess it doesn't have to be like DS and Doom and stuff

but I really just want boss fights to at least...well...be a little more active in combat and stuff or SOMETHING, more challenging you know.

Ambulas fight is like that, I like it....just... I got some personal problems with it

[[Ambulas Reborn] Ambulas Boss Battle and overall Ambulas's rework FEEDBACKS. Underwhelming? Weaker than Bursas?]

2 hours ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

Where do I even start with this, alright, do you honestly think I was standing still the entire mission, like really? You move around all the time in Warframe as it is, sniper strategies aren't favorred here. Now look, DOOM is one thing, Warframe is another. If I wanted to fight Dark Souls level bosses I would go and play Dark Souls.

And just when did I say anything about one-shots? I agree with you, it would be nice to see more bosses that aren't just slightly buffed normal enemies, but not ones that you need to exploit the game to beat.

Ok first let me correct you on something here, Raptors come at you one by one not constantly and with a full party the enemy spawns two Abulas proxies at you at once. Now back to the Hyenas, tell me from Lephantis, Raptors and Hyenas which ones do you expect to be more difficult on a sortie (leaving out Razorback cause he can't spawn on sorties)? Well let me give you the stats:

At first place with the most hp are Raptors with 2000-3000. At second place the Hyenas with 1825 total FOR EACH HYENA. At third place Lephantis with only 1200. Suprised? Now do you see why that mission was annoying? No? Ok but wait there is more.

Yes the Raptors have more health, but they are also easier to hit and easier to dodge. Now for the Hyenas well not only are you fighting enemies that are faster then you, but they can slow you and stun you, and take all your energy, AND you have to fight all of them at once, almost every other boss in the game comes at you alone or they wait for their buddy to be killed first. Renember we are talking about sortie level with Enemy Phiscal Enhancement which gives them more health, more resistance to damage and more damage, so not only can you barely damage them if you even hit them, but no matter how much you dodge when they hit you, they are gona take at least half of your health and that's if they hit you with a normal attack, not one of their abillities which might even one shot you (depending on your frame).

Yes it felt like a boss fight, an unfair one where you are supposed to loose.

 

woo...wow, that is a lot to take in...

you made quite a lot of good points mate...

honestly, I don't know if I remember everything I wrote and...well...stood for ish was right but...to correct or well...clarify.

I honestly just want bosses to take a more...head on and top-dog role you know...which Hyena, Lephantis, Razorback and Raptors certainly have.

they're like the imposing big dudes that when you see, you can clearly tell that they are the guys you have to assassinate.

 

That doesnt entirely apply to Ambulas. They look imposing sure....but after (for most cases) a few seconds ( after you disable them )...They're pretty much out of the picture, they pretty stop being the....imposing top dogs and just something that's just...there. I just want the Ambulas to just..get involved or something more you know, independent girls that don't need no CORPUS SHIP to come and be their hero in shining armor (boi). So yes...that's pretty much it I suppose.

I got an idea, I'm just going to tell you because hell I doubt it's gonna be anything but why not let Ambulas have these...like you know....3 down stages like Vor you know? First stage, normal laser attacks, Second stage with stomping and beams and stuff, Third stage...well, all out. It'd make them POSSIBLY better than maybe...Bursas. And well, after all 3 stages are down, you hack it or something. Recovery could be quick to not annoy players too much.

I dunno, just an idea...sounds reasonable enough in my opinion.

 

[What do you think of Ambulas Reborn?]

7 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

i think his face looks like this

 

heck

[What do you think of Ambulas Reborn?]

40 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

I enjoy the event a lot, the Ambulas boss fight was epic.

it was good, a lot different than others

just that...they just don't make the Ambulas...like..shine all that much...it's like they're just...THERE...

[Is WARFRAME viable to boss fights with Dark Souls or Doom 3 degree?]

1 minute ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

Ambulas is a lot more deadly depending on her level and what other enemies she drops in with. This rework feels more like the Corpus made a long range artillery boss instead of a frontline MOA

 

true, like I said, the real threat is the CORPUS ship in the sky, you just shoot Ambulas and let her stay there for like a minute or so.

she's not even the main damage dealer.

[Is WARFRAME viable to boss fights with Dark Souls or Doom 3 degree?]

3 minutes ago, Beggining said:

Awww, I'm actually quite amazed at how well made they are (Animation, Armor mechanics, Electrical Traps) and while I do steamroll through them with Assimilate Nyx and Tigris Prime, I still appreciate how good they are :)

Like I noted above, it's just very difficult to compete with us when our weapons and abilities completely obliterate enemies: the Ambulas themselves would've been interesting in any other video game without super-cheese.

 

aye, I'm not really mad at how well designed their aesthetics are...

just...they're treated like...background punching bags in the boss battle.

It's ironic that when they win...they lose. Ambulas I mean, you still defeated them but you just didn't hack them...

[[Ambulas Reborn] Ambulas Boss Battle and overall Ambulas's rework FEEDBACKS. Underwhelming? Weaker than Bursas?]

1 minute ago, rudman88 said:

its stomp knocked you down. is the standard stomp but not as big as jackal one of course.

what you need to remmber is you need to kill 6 of them at 1 time.

i can 1 off ( 1 hit kill ) bursa but not ambulas.

If you combine their hp and dmg is actually quite high

 

I recommend reading through this new thread of mine with some videos on it showing all the stuff...

No doubt the Ambulas has more health than the Bursas but you gotta take into account that their defenses are worse than Bursas, and they're slow and big unlike Bursas, easier to hit. Their armor platings aren't even that durable, I found that it took roughly the same amount of ammo from a certain gun to take down both....just well...Bursa is a lot more...crutchy to kill with their indestructible front shieldings.

As for damage....from the the little clips in that thread of mine, Bursas were able to incapacitate me faster than Ambulas. If you're careless that is. Ambulas doesn't have a lot of utility abilities to defend itself too...

Plus the fact that Ambulas is an ACTUAL BOSS, whereas Bursas are really just....uncommon enemies that can appear  anywhere Corpus, non stop. 

[Is WARFRAME viable to boss fights with Dark Souls or Doom 3 degree?]

3 minutes ago, VKhaun said:

No. HP sponge doesn't work for WF. There's too big a difference in strength between weapons/builds and that difference is multiplied many times by various buffs. Anything that's possible to kill with an unbuffed mid tier weapon before you die of old age, will just fall over in half a second when MPrimed and Sonar'd and shot at by a 6-forma riven-equipped Roar-buffed player, or whatever combo of buffs/debuffs you happen to have on hand.

Also, for some reason DE loves putting adds all up in their boss fights. This has always killed replay value for me. :/

 

oh yeah...I guess you have a point there

I mean...is it possible for DE to well...you know...scale bosses with mods and stuff on players? I suppose that'd be quite crazy and complicated but yeah...

I really just want longer and more fun boss fights...

[Is WARFRAME viable to boss fights with Dark Souls or Doom 3 degree?]

3 minutes ago, Beggining said:

I actually got that kind of vibe while fighting Ambulas, using my Braton Prime to wear her armor down and dodging her deadly laser beams. Of course, this means that to achieve the same vibe, you'd have to:

- play Solo

- purposely gimp yourself by not using abilities or overpowered weapons

 

Ambulas alone is nowhere near that extent really....

Vertical beam, easily dodgable

Horizontal beam, the only attack that is good

Spin beam....only the 3rd spin actually touches players...

I don't even think Ambulas is...well... as effective as Bursas, they don't really have any sort of like...unique utilities or aura like slow down, nullify or anything like that to protect itself and support allies and such. I think it's quite easier to kill than Bursas really...

sorry...i'm rambling again...I'm just quite salty with the Ambulas's current...underwhelming state.

[Is WARFRAME viable to boss fights with Dark Souls or Doom 3 degree?]

Now, I'm sure a lot of you people have played Dark Souls and Doom 3 and all that sorta games.

I just wonder though.... is Warframe viable for that sort of thing.

You know like, CONSTANTLY running around, slowly but surely dealing damage to the boss while having to dodge their incoming attacks all the time.

No need for invulnerability spots, they're vulnerable everywhere but just with A TON OF HEALTH.

 

I imagine that it'd be really cool to be ACTIVE ALL THE TIME and not just...showing up, one shot of tigris prime then leave....

[Ambulas is possibly the most well-designed enemy in the game]

Just now, Momaw said:

You're not wrong.  It's a boss fight against Animo.  Animo is a neural-net AI built into the ship.  Ambulas is just a robotic platform that Animo downloads part of itself into.

 

I guess you're right about that

 

still though...the Ambulas were still treated as background punching bags, you really just gotta look out for anything else BUT the Ambulas....truly a waste of such a good redesign.

I mean, it lacks that...Imposing feel like the Raptors, Lephantis or Razorback you know...

Or you know, they can be strength in number but they're not.

[AMBULAS vs BURSA Comparison. DPS and Durability. [+Video]. Reflects on the Ambulas Boss Battle. True boss, Corpus ship or Ambulas?]

AMBULAS vs BURSA comparison. Firepower and Durability.

 

Spoiler

This is going to be a comparison FEEDBACK video. I'm sorry if my descriptions seem hard to understand, I'm not very good at that. I made some small videos just to showcase my point.

I'm comparing AMBULAS and BURSA. And the results that I got were quite...disappointing in my opinion.

I expected AMBULAS to be better enemies than the BURSAs, which are already very powerful and challenging enemies to fight against, with their unique arsenal with Nullifier bubbles and very reactive radial slams, etc. They're quite controversial enemies to be honest.

But despite that, I really expected AMBULAS to be generally better than them....but alas, in reality, not at all.

 

 

 

 

 

1) Durability:

AMBULAS:

Spoiler

 

 

 

BURSA:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

3) DPS and Effectiveness:

AMBULAS:

Spoiler

 

 

BURSA:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

FINAL THOUGHTS:

Could it be possible that Ambulas is actually...weaker and less effective than Bursas. Let's look at some of the facts.

BURSA:

- Bursa's stomps leave the players knocked down for quite a long duration. Also more reactive, they stomp only when players get close to them to fend them off.

- Bursa has got nullifer bubbles, AoE mines, blinding stun rays, tether traps (slow down players), laser barriers, slam spams, rocket barrage,etc... ALOT OF UTILITIES that are effective against us.

- They're not necessarily as durable as the Ambulas but their indestructible front shieldings are more effective than Ambulas's destructible armor plates.

- If you get shot from Isolator Bursa's laser shotgun, you get damage over time from it. They don't shoot it very often but when they do manage to hit careless tenno, it's very effective.

- They're FAST.

 

AMBULAS:

- Vertical beam attack, super easy to dodge

- Horizontal beam attack, the only one that matters but still underwhelming

- Spinning beam attack, only the third spin actually hits you..

- Laser shots miss a lot

- Stomps aren't reactive, RANDOMLY initiated, do not leave the players knocked down for a duration like Bursa's

- Armor platings aren't that effective in my opinion, when shot down, Ambulas are left very squishy.

- Slow.

- Have more health than Bursa, but for a boss, it ain't much to help them.

 

 

I don't know if all of that are...acceptable feedbacks to DE. The reason why I'm trying to prove why Ambulas is so...lackluster as a boss is that well...their boss fight, they aren't exactly the main threat, the main focus of the boss, the seem so insignificant and sometimes I feel like the TRUE BOSS is the CORPUS SHIP in the sky, not the Ambulas. Which is quite a shame because their redesign is so good but they just don't perform as well as how they look.

Compared to bursas, they don't punish players for not being careful as much as Bursas.

Despite that though, I do think that the boss battle itself is very different from others, has a lot of good assets....but it'd be cooler to have it shifts its main focus to the Ambulas more, make them the REAL THREAT of the fight. It is quite stupid that when they WIN...they lose...

 

[[Ambulas Reborn] Ambulas Boss Battle and overall Ambulas's rework FEEDBACKS. Underwhelming? Weaker than Bursas?]

Just now, AlphaPHENIX said:

Challenge? Oh Hell no no no no no, that was beyond a challenge, it was annoying. You needed to constantly be in Hysteria just to survive, which was difficult because guess what, one of the Hyenas does magnetic procs. I had to waste at least 30 large enrgy restores and was only ok in terms of health because I had my Sancti Tigris, my team mates on the other hand...Only one of them also had a Valkyr and we were the only ones capable of getting close enough to the Hyenas to do damage, the other two I had to pick up who knows how many times. Oh and did I mention that I am only telling you what happened on the third try, or that it took 30+ minutes to finish the mission?

It's not that I dodn't like a challenge, but there are limits.

 

yeah well...I get that you don't like to move around constantly to survive...you don't like that extent of a challenge...

Personally, I think it's great to be active and such, move around to avoid attacks...just like a good boss battle would be.

I mean, have you seen other games' boss battle like DOOM 3? I don't know, you gotta keep moving all the time to survive and stuff...now that'd be nice.

 

I get it, this game, you need to...FARM...and one-shotting enemies makes farming easier and yes, I do want that sometimes but I HATE the fact that you just come up and fire like what, half a clip and that's it with the boss battle? Hell no...that's boring as all hell.

 

Ambulas boss fight isn't like that and I respect it...but the problem is...the threat isn't the AMBULAS ITSELF...it's the god damn corpus ship up in the sky and it's a god damn shame because they treat AMBULAS like some flashy PINATA for you to get a few Animo beacons out of....they make them SO INSIGNIFICANT.

They don't have that imposing feel like of Razorback, Lephantis or Raptors...why can't they be like Raptors!? Ambulas are easy to kill...at least drop in 3-4 ambulas at once or you know...constantly drop in ambulas like Raptors, that'd make them pop out more in the boss fight...

They just don't perform as well as how they look...a true shame. Probably less effective than Bursas.

[[Ambulas Reborn] Ambulas Boss Battle and overall Ambulas's rework FEEDBACKS. Underwhelming? Weaker than Bursas?]

25 minutes ago, rudman88 said:

ISnt the new ambulas liek a n upograde of bursa ?

besides the imba shield at front,

the new ambulas can :

1. Make the ground got lightning -> techncially and logically doesnt make sense

2. shoot laser

3. bombard

4. missle

5. stomp

 

it only dont have the shoot small bubble nullify warframe abilities lol xd

 

 

And Bursa's stomps, knock us down for a few seconds, like you can't stand up after a few seconds.

whereas Ambulas's stomps don't do that.

Bursa's laser shots also deal HUGE damage over time.

[[Ambulas Reborn] Ambulas Boss Battle and overall Ambulas's rework FEEDBACKS. Underwhelming? Weaker than Bursas?]

11 minutes ago, rudman88 said:

ISnt the new ambulas liek a n upograde of bursa ?

besides the imba shield at front,

the new ambulas can :

1. Make the ground got lightning -> techncially and logically doesnt make sense

2. shoot laser

3. bombard

4. missle

5. stomp

 

it only dont have the shoot small bubble nullify warframe abilities lol xd

 

 

 

1) Not very effective, the can be easily dodged plus...the dot isn't that good.

2) Man...I know it's no doubt but Tech supras are more effective. Honestly...the lasers from Ambulas aren't even that powerful, they miss frequently and damage is meh.

3) In the boss fight yes, bombard from the CORPUS SHIP can be effective....they ain't from the Ambulas so it's irrelevant honestly.

4) Again, not from AMBULAS

5) Stomps not as reactive as Bursas, Bursas can spam stomps if you get close to it, Ambulas takes like 3 seconds to initate the stomps...and by the thrid stomp it's likely dead. And they do stomps randomly too...

 

Also, their beam attacks:

- Vertical beam, super easy to dodge

- Horizontal beam, the only one that matters but still underwhelming

- Spinning beam, only the third spin actually hits you..

 

Isolator Bursa's laser shotgun is definitely more powerful than all of the Ambulas's arsenal

plus they're fast as hell.

[Ambulas is possibly the most well-designed enemy in the game]

2 hours ago, Cosmic_Elf said:

Nice upgrade to Ambulas boss fight.. It used to be a meh assassination, now it is just awesome 

I think it's more...corpus ship boss fight...than ambulas

[Ambulas is possibly the most well-designed enemy in the game]

2 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Well, best we can do is continue to say it until something gets through. :P

MR is only an indicator of how much grinding you've done, not how skilled you are... but I'm not trying to suggest that you don't know how to play. I still don't understand how you ran into a problem with the stomp knockdown. The stomp is like once every second, it stomps 3 times and then does a radial AOE stomp. Easy to see coming, easy to avoid, and not particularly punishing even when you do get hit. Heck, unless you're chilling point blank the knockdown shockwave itself isn't particularly fast.

If you can provide some clarification, that'd be great. Otherwise you may have actually stumbled on a bug that would be worth reporting.

It feels particularly cheap to be fighting against an enemy that has dangerous damage output while simultaneously not being able to fight back effectively. Invulnerability phases are just "run around waiting for the next opportunity" events used to artificially draw out an otherwise uninteresting fight. It'd be fine if they did something interesting with it, but it's literally just a time-gate.

Layered invulnerability where you have to exploit weaknesses to create an opening? Fine.

Partial invulnerability that requires you to hit weak-points to do damage? Fine, provided you supply options for non-precision weapons and melee.

Invulnerability phases that progress completely independently of player actions and simply slow things down for the heck of it? Laaaaaaame.

Yeah, like i said, not 100% would be nice

[What do you think of Ambulas Reborn?]

4 hours ago, Rolunde said:

What?! 

Dropping Bosses into another Bosses Boss Fight?!

kek?

Sure, maybe next we can have Tyl Regor and Lech Kril show up to help Vay Hek on Earth too while we're at it...

Why not...i mean trust me, i dont exactly think that is necessary but i do want to see SOME SORT OF CHANGE to make the ambulas harder to fight against...some kind of passive ability to help it defends itself better

Like hyena aura or nullifer shield...ambulas is just too easy to defeat it's painful

The boss fight...it's more focused toward the Corpus shop than the ambulas itsslf...theyre like flashy background fillers....

[Ambulas is possibly the most well-designed enemy in the game]

I think some kind of...invulnerability would help ambulas....i mean, not 100% invulnerable EVERYWHERE but certain spots...

I mean, god damn theyre slow as hell and not at all durable, they are so vulnerable it hurts.

I dont even understand why invulnerability is not good, our damage output is super high already so is it REALLY a problem? No.

[Ambulas is possibly the most well-designed enemy in the game]

6 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Came back on to play the event simply to get the Supra Vandal... and I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised by the Ambulas boss fight.

Hands down, it is the best boss-fight in the game.

• Decently telegraphed, regularly avoidable attacks.
• Weak-points rewarding precision without locking players out of damage for neglecting it.
• Dramatic background events... that bombardment sequence was superb.
• Acceptable "lengthening" of the fight WITHOUT invulnerability.

I seriously want DE to go back and rework all the other bosses (even the already-reworked ones) up to this standard of quality. My only gripe with the battle is that it can sometimes take a little too long in-between spawning Ambulas units at the beginning. Later on when you can deal with multiples it's less of an issue, but I feel like players should never really feel like they're sitting on their thumbs during a fight.

Sounds like your build doesn't include any knockdown recovery speed increases. Not saying that this should be required, but the stomp is fairly telegraphed and unless you're sitting in Ambulas' face with its aggro it doesn't use the stomp very often. When you see it coming just bullet-jump straight up, and you'll be fine. And if you have Constitution on it shouldn't lock you into multiple hits as a punishment for flubbing a dodge.

That said... it should knock you progressively further away each time, so it's hard to imagine getting stunlocked for more than a few hits.

Edit: Noticed you said you were using handspring in the previous post... I find your experience very difficult to believe in that case. Were you trying to melee it constantly or something?

Still think they should focus more on the ambulas and not the corpus ship...

Heck if anything, the boss fight is more...fight against corpus ship than fight against ambulas...theyre like background dummies...a shame

I think they should have like some sort of defensive mechanic against us...something more...like aura that jams certain ability types like scrumbuses, nullifer bubbles like bursas or SOMETHING to help them withstand against us better...theyre so underwhelming...

[[Ambulas Reborn] Ambulas Boss Battle and overall Ambulas's rework FEEDBACKS. Underwhelming? Weaker than Bursas?]

10 hours ago, rapt0rman said:

To an extent, but in the end, you don't fight 6 bursas in a boss arena. Aside from the singles in dropships during the event, the ambulas have powers in numbers. They could possibly be be buffed some though.

And as said, they can either make bosses with obnoxious immunity phases, or have bosses that will be one shot by higher lvl players.

also... I actually consider some bursa abilities (and off topic but, everything about the juggernaut) to be heavily over-tuned, they would indeed have more place during boss battles the regular gameplay.

Man...i dont know about ambulas power in number...sure they have support from other enemies but alone...the highest number that they will spawn at once is TWO... and even then it's easy peesy....again, you spend most of your time trying to survive the artillery and get remech ospreys off their back...it takes like a few secs to down them.

Bursas...Bursas fit the "strength in number" more, ive seen them spawn in 3-4 quantity before.

 

And yes i agree with you, i think ambulas should have some of bursa's abilities or similar, like rocket barrage or nullifier bubble. Or at least give them some sort of support aura like jam abilities or buff allies or something.

[[Ambulas Reborn] Ambulas Boss Battle and overall Ambulas's rework FEEDBACKS. Underwhelming? Weaker than Bursas?]

7 hours ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

Please don't give me flashbacks of the Hyena Pack on Enemy Phiscial Enhancemant. A trully horrfic PTSD inducing nightmare.

I like them, a good challenge, pain in the &#! if you aint careful which i think is how bosses should be like.

[What do you think of Ambulas Reborn?]

3 minutes ago, HalfDarkShadow said:

Ah no worries, I did understand the main point you were making there, I was just mentioning even if DE did anything at all to tweak after the event, the very least is to up the pressure a bit. Of course I would love to see what you proposed but regardless I would be content as long they tweak something.

Honestly though, the Hyena pack is loads more threatening if you think about it lol.

 

that is TRUE. Hyena pack with their auras, especially the magnetic one...they can counteract us, they climb walls and stuff, super agile.

where as what...AMbulas STOMPING SLOWLY and ANGRILY around shooting popcorns at us!? heck

[What do you think of Ambulas Reborn?]

2 minutes ago, Agentawesome said:

Mechanically the event was good, but like all other content in warframe, overlooked due to the sheer power we posses. 

that's...really true

I say...invincibility is OKAY! I mean just not TOO awkwardly placed that is. THey need some kind of protection from us...

I mean, I don't like the whole idea implying us that we're invincible GODS...I hope DE would make like an event or just SOMETHING that reminds us that we aren't superior.