[[Endgame] Why we had it and why we lost it]

6 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Dude do you even read what you say? What mechanics they should introduce? How? They failed so many times because of all the options we have! Ive never said they shouldnt but they simply are not able to make them complex as you want them to be (whatever it means because non of you came with solution). They will fail before being implemented because game itself is complex enough and players cant be bother to engage in them. I dont care what specifically you wanted, things i mentioned are what player base wanted. You as individual are irrelevant. The fact that you point out how we play the game and use only the basic concepts proves my point perfectly. Players are lazy and greedy by nature and thats something you have hard time understanding.

dude, can you even read?

because it 's either you can't or you just won't

also you are lazy and greedy, perhaps, i am not and by what you said your opinion is also irrelevant, you know? you beign an individual and all

[[Endgame] Why we had it and why we lost it]

40 minutes ago, 844448 said:

eidolon : lures and amps

exploiter orb : throwing canisters

sortie : multi stage mission

eso : efficiency meter from killing enemies

arbitration : invincibility drone that doubles as priority target and weak spot

add one more, profit taker orb : archgun launcher

Quite sure you also put new mechanics that are limited to that content itself which each of those have it

eidolon: already said that is the only thing close to a real endgame

EO: throwing canister is just like asking you to switch weapon, it's not really a new mechanic

Sortie: bullflowers it's just 3 different mission with higher level mobs and a modifier, it doesn't even change gameplay at all i regularly ignore the mods and breeze through it anyway usually solo

arbitration: survival with higher lvl mobs and buff that don't change gameplay, it's not a new mechanic

the archgun launcher is a reward not a mechanic exclusive to that content and if it was it would not be enough to vary gameplay form its basic point and shoot you'd just do it with a bigger gun

like i said challenge(wich is arguably present at all in WF) it's not the only thing about endgame

try twist what i said in any way it will still be a logical statement based on what basically every other mmo has ever done and what most people outside warframe agree upon

WoW wouldn't have been what it was withouth raids, Destiny same thing, even a game like Allods had a good endgame and on that note most f2p mmos ( at least those that had rpg components) attempted a conclusive endgame.

oh and on the subject of "well then what is endgame in warframe?"  we had clan wars in the form of solar rails,i went away because of crybabies, and that's just an example but it could be also other stuff as long as it fits the parameters not just on paper

[[Endgame] Why we had it and why we lost it]

16 minutes ago, kuciol said:

The only ignorant one here is you my friend. You cant understand that every time they try introduce new mechanic they fail because its not a kind of game where it fits. The only way we can have any challenge is by limiting us and the moment you start doing it people have problem with it. You cant specify what this engame should be! Every time they introduce something that players like you wanted (kuva survival, eso, arbitrations) you come back here crying for endgame. Such thing simply doesnt exist. The mechanics of game itself and diversity of options completely destroy any chance of meaningfull endgame. Again : you make it to hard and complex people wont play it (Raids), you make it to easy and people will solo it (orbs and eidolons) and you return to entry point. ESO, Arbitrations, Sorties, Kuva survival and bosses are the endgame. Not your cup of tea? To bad but it is what it is. 

 i specified many times, you simply don't care to read or don't know how to do it so that you understand the meaning of what is written.

your statement doesn't follow a logic (this game doesn't fit new mechanichs my god that's a new low) your idea of endgame is not endgame it's just higher lvl mobs and a harder grind(if you play for rivens fine, it's still not endgame) every time they introduce something that is supposed to be endgame it's just that, a higher level grind

also your point about diversity it's plain false becase in the end every weapon those the same basic thing and every ability fits within the same basics categories, warframe it's not some alien thing wich invented them and the game is quite the opposite of complex gameplay wise while all the complaxity is sadly in those systems that have little to nothing to do with gameplay ( crafting, resource mangement and gathering etc.) 

also i'd like to say i never asked for kuva or arbitrations ofr obvious reasonsù

so yea your ignorance is plain, but maybe it's not a matter of ignorance after all

[[Endgame] Why we had it and why we lost it]

11 minutes ago, 844448 said:

By that definition, eidolon, exploiter orb, arbitration, ESO and sortie are the endgame

and where are the new mechanics? a timer? a different skinned shield drone?

eidolon is the only thing that can be considere endgame right now, even so it's still just point and shoot, you just have to collect a bunch of lures before in order to skip the only mechanic that would make it more interesting

[This guy should lead the art direction of Warframe.]

i agree with th OP it looks like warframe but better and it would be nice to see come consistency in the art style of things in the game 

i'll admit i don't like that garuda though

[[Endgame] Why we had it and why we lost it]

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

And by that Railjack already failed because you have "expectations". What you dont understand is that no matter what they will introduce we will either cheese it making it trivial or we it wont be played, at all. Gameplay loop is a myth, once you get the fancy stuff out of it you wont come back. You try to convince yourself that its games fault but the problem is simpler, you just got bored and no matter what they add you wont be satisfied. Tell me what should they do : make content for 90% of players that will be to easy for you or make content for 1% that nobody else will play (like raid were)? The answer is obvious.

the same old tired lies by people who entitle themselves the barers of truth

warframe is the only game with no endgame and if you don't know what that means you should play some other games then warframe

(endgame is a content based on introducing new mechanichs in the game that are limited to that content itself, it requires you both to be experienced in the underlaying mechanics of the core game and be appropriately equipped with high tier gears wich you also have to acquire by experiencing the core game. Endgame its meant to be the the cherry of the gameplay in terms of how enticing/involved the mechanics are in order to instill a desire of fruition in the new players and a feeling of reward aswell as a challange for those who can access it)

all of you who keep trowing around you ignorance or disinformative malice: you will probably never go away and it's fine, we won't either though and in terms of carrying  the endgame argument the deeper we go in it the more it is clear you folks are not backed by logic or valid reasons.

Spoiler

i am sure part of DE is fine with people like you anyway, after all if there is no endgame to give you closure they can just keep milking you everytime you launch warframe

 

[[Endgame] Why we had it and why we lost it]

13 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Endgame is an illusion. We keep getting new (stronger and extensively powercreeping) weapons by every update and with the introduction of riven any content that isn't based on pure game mechanics (which means selection of weapons makes no different) will be trivialized in less than 1 week.

boom: endgame

[Will there be another window for PC to Switch account transfer?]

nope but i'd take it gladly, i missed the window back then and i am not starting a new account from scrap

maybe if you get people to make enough noise about it it will just happen

[Endgame?]

1 hour ago, FlusteredFerret said:

If you want endgame...you're playing the wrong game. 

Warframe isn't that kind of game...and likely never will be.

If you've been playing for 6 years, you ought to have figured that out by now. 

yish...what an incredible enlighted piece of flaming nothing you are.

"i don't care about what you say so i am taking the opportunity to insult you in a totally gratuitous and moroni way" 

chapeau, i didn't know we could be this low, thanks for reminding me why the forums don't actually count sheets

[Endgame?]

1 minute ago, bibmobello said:

I think you should learn the good manners first...

 seriously though, i've been very kind considering the trolling

[Endgame?]

Just now, (PS4)Kakurine2 said:

Giant bird ediolon on jupitor. There you go.

The new war coming, railjack space exploration and battle, the nemisis sytem, and the duviri paradox.  All inc at some point.

Plus we can always kill the other big world bosses currently.

yeah except you don't know what your are talking about and i ahve already stated in another tread why railjack won't really be endgame( although i certainly hope for it)

and also i don't see any real big world bosses except eidolons, orbs (wich are meh to be kind) and myabe ropa(not really imo)

i really think you should read the other posts better

[Endgame?]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Kakurine2 said:

Its fine and human to disgree.

But tell me and everyone exactly what you want. Down to last detail if you have an idea that will make you happy and generate a long term solution for all.

What is adiqoute endgame specifically? Even in mmos a raid tier lasts x months then becomes moot when a new tier is released. And things like high end raids require coms and dedicated groups to succeed.

3 page paragraph with graphs go go.go.

i don't need 3 pages, i already have in less then one so i am still thinking you're just not a good reader, but if you really want your have your 3 pages

[Endgame?]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)Kakurine2 said:

If players aren't happy and want a specific thing then they need to say exactly what they want.  Not speak in generalities.

I want a challenge.... ok? What exactly does this entail? A challenge is going to be different for each person.

A raid won't work it seems. And when in a random pug group you can't expect much.  Hey look a repeat event every x months... but since you did it in the past are the rewards useful anymore?

Hey a new boss. It is a bullet sponge and after you kill it x times its got nothing left of value.

Is there even an actual solution? Wf isn't flawless nothing is. But for what it is its good and we keep getting more stuff as time goes on.

Generalities and vague statements don't give de or players anything.

i disagree sir, i think in fatc that you ,yes you, are just spewing ambiguity and generalizations

also i think you might be reading as well as you'd have thought

[Warframe needs a complete overhaul]

op don't bother, like someone said i've too come to view warframe as something you do from time to time when you just want to murder polygonal stuff;warframe will probably be never more then this because too many people playing are brainless diva pricks who happened to had the word and meaning of hypocrisy removed from their already vacant skulls, they are unfornatetly too numerous to combat right now and have been so for a while and it's all because they have to be able to wank off while they play a videogame

[[Endgame] Why we had it and why we lost it]

5 hours ago, Wawus said:

Thanks for coming by.

I keep seeing these rants about no real endgame, which is true, but at the same people complaining about "inaccessibility" of content at certain times. Whether it's Nightwave's challenge to Kill Profit-Taker, or first version of Sanctuary Onslaught Elite, or even great first impression of difficult, no-revives Arbitrations. We had it all. We had difficult challenges, we had quite difficult first Nightwave.

 

So what happened? People started to complain, that balance of effort vs reward isn't all that great. Or that these items are beyond player's gear or understanding of the game. Or that I want rewards NOW.

 

It is concerning, that DE did bend to begging of these, who wanted to lower the challenge. If that habit stays true, I can already see uprising group ready to blow up a Kingpin system. 

The only way to make any type of content "Endgame" is if you really give us ridiculous challenge, something that will test our years of collecting and upgrading mods, our passion to maximize or specialise. Two different types of enemies requiring equipping specific mods? Elemental damage buff rotation, so you have to bring two different weapons with different elements if you want to stay alive? Special requirements limiting gear, weapon types, maybe random nullification of one of the abilities? Make it a little harder for us. And yes, divide. Let us feel that we have earned getting past wave 5.

If I have to maximize Serration or Primed mods to be able to beat challenges (but barely) then yes, I'm all in!

 

I'm also more into locking items behind progression and skill rather than time, it just gives sense of growth and direction.

Do you agree? 

i disagree in the NW part because of one thing, well two but they sprout from the same seed, NW challenges aren't endgame,they are just grind.

i have no problem with them i am just saying they lack all the characteristics of what is traditionally intended as endgame and they consist in the same content that you'd normally play regardless of the weeklys 

[Endgame?]

22 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

Well that would be interesting, but not possible with how the production cycle goes. I just want challenging content (no arbitrary difficulty, something challenging within the idea of fair mechanics in the game that tests my knowledge and ability to perform).

Tennogen and some of the skins I don't count towards anything, they're a bonus and do not replace actual content. Considering the community created them, they're a bonus, not the content. "Salad isn't food, salad comes with the food. Salad is the promisary note that food with soon arrive" ~ John Pinette.  The open worlds were neat, but I feel they could be used/fleshed out more. HIldryn, Garuda, Baruuk should have impacts in fortuna that we get to explore to unlock their frames. Since you get hildryn from the exploiter orb, have hildryn be the last Warframe that was in the old Fortuna, as an example, with some story behind it to give the landscape a bit of lore/backstory.  Like Gara and Revenant for The Plains.

Yup, I do infact, as do many others. As for rivens, you can only hold 90, so...

 

That is neither here nor there, we're speaking on Warframe and how to make it better, which isn't a bad thing. By actively saying "you can play other things etc. if you're bored of Warframe" is the equivalent of saying "Warframe is perfect as it is, there's the door if you don't like it". 

Giving advice, perspective and wants (and fixes) for something isn't bad, and not all ideas fit within the scope of the idea for the game, but are still welcome because how other players can break them down to see if they're actually good or not, or what the intent is behind such ideas.  In the end, endgame is subjective, some will find certain things 'acceptable' for endgame while others want something different or something "more".

I think DE feels like it's a very difficult task to appeal to many groups at the same time, but they've been doing it for quite some time with the different game modes they've added in over the years. They just need to flesh them out more, give better rewards etc. and move on from there. They don't need to bend over backwards and 'create a new game' or anything drastic like that. They have a great foundation with some walls already, finish what you started, DE, that's all we want.

i agree with you and mostly with jarriaga.

also we can't possibly have a raid a month (nobody does that as a standard, it's just unreasonable) but we should could have one every six month or hek 1 a year if it's decent and like stated by jarriaga if the reward pool is something actually rewarding in the long run then i don't need an oscar nominated cinematic experience just some gameplay that is not just point,shoot and endure soulcrashing-cataract inducing  visual effects. Speaking of gameplay i agree eidolons (also compared to orbs) are a good start for endgame, it would just need some kick to male it stand out even more (i.e shadow of the colossus style where it's so big you actually have to reach the weak point to hit them while the creature moves) and that one reward in the pool that is beneficial beyond just helping you to farm more eidolons (i don't know, a customizable ability? kinda like the focus paths maybe, but it's just a random example), actually forget raids, if they gave us a gargantuan creature every 6 months i'd be happy, it can be reused assets for the level and i wouldn't mind, i just wish for something more enticing within the game

[Endgame?]

look the reason there isn't an endgame in warframe imho is at least twofold:

1 DE doesn't actually know how or what kind of "more involved" content has to be developed for warframe, railjack could potentially be good but they will have to cater it to the mass of amebas they call new players because otherwise people are going to cry

2. the mass of amebas: more then 50% of warframe population are S#&$ heads, they don't care about endgame because they realize they wouldn't have access to it and they hate you for bringing it up,hell as you saw they are not even capable of respecting your opinion, they need "phresh" "easy" content that they can grind mindlessy so they can complain about how much grind is in the game (DE knows this and they are fine with it, or at least there's no sign they aren't)

oh and for those who say that people who want endgame don't know what they want you are clearly ignorant of what that portion of the community has gone through

first we had clan wars and people were happy calling it the endgame, but not new lamers :boom solar rails wars  removed

then got raid: they were bad and not really "raids" per se, people who wanted endgame asked for them to be fixed: nope, they rather remove them

ok let's see what the people want and make a visual map for it : huge numbers went on to ask about endgame and DE was so scared they purposedly misrapresented it in the map and delayed its debate litterally as long as they could

for what i am personally concerned i,like others have discussed once in a while, would like to see real raids a la WOW or Destiny (but i have already said why i think they won't ever implement real raid in place of garbage like the profit taker)

[Should Profit-taker give plat as reward?]

why not just ask for better bosses instead?

[quatz kubrow]

EDIT: I WOULD LIKE EVERYONE TO KNOW DE REFUSES TO REFUND THE PLAT THEY SCAMMED OFF ME SO PLEASE BE AWARE THAT IF YOU GET TRICKED BY THIS SORT OF THING YOU WON'T GET REINMBURSED

DON'T PURCHASE ARMOUR TO USE WITH THE FERAL KUBROW IT'S NOT POSSIBLE

sry for all caps and i know many of you knew this already, but i wanted to possibly help someone like me who foolishly thought what i saw in the store front was what i was going to buy

[bring alerts back!]

4 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Gonna be honest - I wish the slots were a Cred purchase.

I don't need more robotic slots until they release more Sentinels and/or MOA parts and/or Hyenas. Two series in a row now I've gotten them for free, so it's an empty rank for me. Free Warframe slots are always nice, but should still probably be optional.

That being said, they really need to either make every rank reward Cred, or have every Act reward an amount of Cred. It's given out way too sparingly considering the Cred Offerings rotate weekly.

see this i agree with, granted you are speaking of nightwave cred

also the fact that after the first 150 cache they give you just 50 each time is just bull S#&$ to refraing you from cashing in on catalysts

p.s. sry for double post, i just didn't want to taint this by putting it in the previous one

[bring alerts back!]

2 hours ago, Kconvey said:

Oh she's awesome, no doubt about it. Look I love her voice, the evolving story, the cutscenes all that. Its all about the rewards though. 

The rewards are junk, the missions are annoying, new and returning player unfriendly and some of them are just totally whack. The new fight a boss, that requires MAX, yes MAX rep with Orb Valis. 

gated missions are bad if you want to complain about them specifically make a topic, i am sure you'd get more support then here where we all can see you are not beign logical.

also is just weekly elites and what you say about NW rewards vs alerts is simply false, not only alert had a smaller prize pool but the "algorithm" was totally out of wack and wat you got was mostly nitain nitain nitain untill the last year of alerts when you started getting mods with a decent frequency but even then they were always the same and god forbid you'd be online for forma alerts.

so like i said your opinion as it stands is easily countered by facts (at least for those who played/remember the alerts) and quite frankly you are disservicing anyone who wuold have more then your 1 reason to prefer the alerts over Night wave by saying stuff like "returning player not friendly", i mean it's not even clear if you are saying the system is not friendly to returning player or returning player aren't friendly to you (a possibility i am starting to consider after reading your last posts)

[Do you agree in having a power ceiling?]

26 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

 

I think DE wants all content to be accessible to new or not-very-invested players, it seems. Considering not many things are actually challenging, and the idea of 'take off some of your mods etc' that isn't a fix for anything. I feel when you're "geared" that there should be something that pushes that gear to the limit, thus relying on you the player to make up the difference.

exactly, that is the reason everyone points to when talking about the lack of endgame content but then again that hypothetical content SHOULD be for invested players and at the same time to incetivate those who aren't; instead we get "the new player experience needs some work" every single year to the point i am shocked it's not really a big meme.

[bring alerts back!]

1 minute ago, Kconvey said:

I did do it, I did not find it interesting, engaging or fun in any way. But I did it. 

Nightwave is not as good as the Alert system. 

ok i get that's your opinion but your reasoning it's kinda petty dude

Edit: also double posting ain't going to help you rack up points

[bring alerts back!]

5 minutes ago, Kconvey said:

When Im in the mood to go fighting...Im  not in the mood to scan fruits, nuts and berries. I want to play warframe, not make trail mix. Crafting and gathering can be fun, I mean Terraria is one of my favorite games of all times.

But here.. it feels tacked on and pointless. 

i see you are still on that one, you do realise it is one single elite weekly quest do you? plus it's less grind then a level of any faction but with arguably higher value rewards

[bring alerts back!]

5 minutes ago, Kconvey said:

Grinding frames, bosses, relics, resources are all fine. The game is a looter shooter.... not farmville or Stardew valley, and I mean those games are fine when Im in the mood for them.

please elaborate