NovaLP

But its not the same. Zariman and Deimos: You get tokens that represent the ammount of standing you would've gotten for from that mission (also it is possible to get an additional token from the bountie reward pool aswell as additional tokens scattered around the mission for you to find). While in the Sanctum you don't get the main reward standing from the bountie as tokens but as straight standing -> aka you can't save it up for busy days and you waste a ton of standing. I don't rly understand what you mean by that, maby you can only spend a max ammount of tokens? But how would that work with MR increases? I agree with that, but Zariman solved that Problem If they didn't want that, why did they implement it 2 times before? And why didn't they change Zariman and Deimos to the straight standing system that they desire because they don't want players to stockpile rep?

Sanctum is still a step backwards tho 100% agree, Grineer Proxima was fine'ish but Corpus Proxima was completely backwards.

Actually, canisters and other weakpoints do count towards charging up Incarnons, but they do not count towards everything else you described for some obscure reason.

Since I started playing Warframe it has been crazy how often DE managed to get rewards wrong for either new regions or new systems. There have been exceptions to this rule over the years but some outliers like WITW and Dante Unbound recently have made me question DE's decision making in "rewards". The most memorable experiences thus far have been: 1) Kuva Fortress Release 2) Infested Salvage Release 3) PoE Release 4) SO and ESO Release (still valid) 5) Orbs (mostly still valid) ...) And I can just go on and on about this, there are soo many examples of where rewards have been mishandeled that I start to suspect that these decisions haven't been overlooked but where deliberatly made. Just to recap recent examples: - Enemies in the new tileset missing evergreen rewards completely - Standing is not rewarded in form of tokens -> You can waste Standing again if you are farming for Bountie drops - SP having no increase in valuable Drops whatsoever - The complete mishandling of rewarding players with Melee Arcane Adapters (They are still awarded even by Deep Archimedeas), when they should've been rewarded for SE by Teshin ... And the worst of all is, we don't even know how decisions like these came to be. Every decision has a goal and I can't fathom what the goals were with these decisions. If I could at least understand the why and how because DE actually managed to get rewards right in the last 2 years. Zariman, Veilbreaker and Duviri have stood out as positive examples how to get rewards loops right, each with their own little problems but overall they have been good and very well received. And now that DE had the chance to just copy the Zariman, they didn't?

Definitly Tigris, Galatine and Akstiletto Incarnon. I also would like to see what DE would do with a Sniper Incarnon since we don't have one yet and I love snipers.

I feel like especially the enemies need more evergreen rewards since the entire sanctum is missing them, especially if i check for omnia fissures i log on and if the only omnia fissures available are murmur fissures i log off. In the Zariman you can at least farm arcanes and thus vosfor (for Lua, you can spend Lua Thrax plasm on arcanes -> vosfor) but the Sanctum is missing that completely. Rogue Necramechs (that would also include demolishers) would be the perfect place to those evergreen rewards imo. But I've already made a huge post about this:

These bugs still haven't been fixed even after 10 months? Even after the large Duviri bug fix pass? Mesa is still unplayable after the Orowyrm fight, and Vorunas bug is just annoying but man... 10 Months? I don't even want to know what bugs that i've encountered and haven't had a chance to see again are also still present.

Currently helping a friend to farm Tome Mods and spoiler, it's an absolute pain to do since there is no way you can speed up the mission. Also Omnia Fissures are not allowed to spawn in this mirror defense so there is additionally no way to at least farm for something else in the meanwhile, just like how you can do if you want to farm for tennokai mods. Gruzzlings, Voca and Whispers cannot spawn in that tileset so you can't farm for arcanes and / or standing either. -> aka you are limiting yourself to just farming tome mods all day, while that nice neat little pack lingers in the market for 160 plat just waiting to be bought. I bought it for plat in the first few seconds when it released because when I saw the drop rates I knew this is going to be pain and I'd rather spend my time elsewhere. But I know of alot of people who would rather quit the game then be forced to buy gameplay / power for plat. Since Stela is a ressource that you get from collecting all vosphene glyphs aswell as a occasional reward from MITW enemies, why not give either Bird 3, Loid, or Tagfer a shop where you can trade in Stela for Tome Mods, Tennokai Mods and Mandonell (and maby even throw in the arcanes or the weekly archon shard in there so Standing Grind is focused on the more important rewards from the shop like melee arcane adaperts) Example prices: Tome mods: 200 Stela each Tennokai mods (uncommon): 100 Stela each Tennokai mods (rare): 200 Stela each Mandonell parts: 75 Stela each Melee Arcanes (uncommon): 25 Stela each Melee Arcanes (rare): 50 Stela each Melee Arcanes (legendary): 250 Stela each Weekly Archon Shard: 200 Stela each I just don't want to know what kind of a pain Tome mod grind is going to be for new players in 3 years down the line, looking down the drain of a dozen weeklies + daily standing you can't prefarm + all the other pain they added in Whispers in the Walls.

They could've at least made it 200 vosfor so you can pull once, but please don't change the order or reward type. As it's made to be a "something" reward if you do go for it but as an easy skip for people who want leave 1 modifier out (either a frame or weapon of choice or one of the negative mods)

Ah thats mb on the wording, with forma invested I meant at least one. Not forma dumping for the sake of getting the stuff you want all the time, but even then Even if you succeed in manipulating the system to your own ends, it will only benefit you once in a while. It's actually not about other players it's more about me and I admit that, If I do not benefit from getting creative, playing something not meta or creating a new meta, I would feel stupid to try. It's like the Labs on SP atm, they literally have no reason to be played on SP unlike the Zariman. If I do need to farm something from there, I play a round on normal -> get bored from normal diff -> quit the game -> play Path of Exile or anything else. I would like to hear in what other ways you think the system is abusable, thats actually valuable and if there is something where I cannot think of a fix I admit defeat. Additionally, I thought about this comment a reroll would be really bad idea or at least without a weighting system, since there is a very good chance that you rolled something usable away and got even worse.

I never said its based around hoarding, I said its based around collecting gear. These are different concepts. The highest MR barriers in the game are MR 16 -> MR aquisition is linked to collecting gear. Also the game is 100% around getting different tools to dominate different situations. you know, not investing into weapons you don't like doesn't mean you only invest into and play with 1 primary, 1 secondary and 1 melee. The issue does go away when you remove the rng system but it justs gets plagued by another issue: DA and EDA will be dominated by a meta that gets boring and stale after a little while just like Eidolons, Orbs and Archons. We've seen it multiple times at this point. Also you've never given me an example in what way my weighting system is flawed, you are just insisting on "rng loadout bad" without considering anything else.

You could also take this to the extreme and my proposed system should still work. Let's say you don't like the Tenet Arca Plasmor altho it is a powerfull weapon. so it has inherent high weighting, but you deleted it after leveling. Not having a weapon could feed into my algorithm by reducing the weighting to the highest weighting that gets reduced by weapon quantity: 0,999. In this example replace the Stug with Tenet Arca Plasmor: if you keep only weapons that you like and lets say you like 40 weapons in total in the game. That would decrease the weighting of the Tenet Arca Plasmor from 0,999 to 0,714 thus reducing the chance of it appearing altho it is a powerfull weapon. And if you don't like weapons that are bad and remove them from your inventory while expanding your inventory with weapons that you do like and invest in them. This system should work even better in your favor

If you do exactly that you prob like using it, I don't invest to much into weapons I don't like again: If you like a weapon you can increase the chance of it appearing drasticly with all those modifiers

The system I proposed should solve that problem by reducing the chance of a bad weapon appearing to near 0 if not invested Thats another problem that needs to be fixed by matchmaking rules. In case of playing with premade groups they need to limit the system to: they can only play together if research value gained is equal in squad. Actually not true, they aren't the best but they get the job done if needed. And this time it was needed

I wanted to also adress that point from a programming perspective individual weapon weighting could be a value from from 0,001 to 2,000 The minimum of weapons you can own is 1 primary, 1 secondary and 1 melee -> 3 weapons so with 3 weapons the multiplication number would be 1 for each weapon. Let's call that number weaponQuantWeighting each additonal weapon would increase the multiplication number by a small ammount for example with 34 weapons owned: weaponQuant = 34; weaponQuantWeighting+=(0.01*weaponQuant); This would result in a weaponQuantWeighting of 1,34 A weapon with an inherent weighting (determined by all other variables in the OP) between 0,001 and 0,999 would be divided by the weaponQuantWeighting thus lowering. Lets calculate an example on the Stug that is certain to have a weighting in between those values (the Stugs weighting would be in this example after all other calcs: 0,024): if(stugWeighting<=0.999){ stugWeighting/=weaponQuantWeighting; } this would result in the 34 weapons owned example in a reduction of the stugWeighting from 0,024 to 0,018 On the other hand if a weapon has an inherent weighting between 1 and 2 it would get multiplied with the weaponQuantWeighting multiplier. But the total Weighting is not allowed to exceed 2 in actual weighting used to determine the pool while the total weighting is saved but hidden from the pool. This should result in the most powerfull and most invested weapons to have equal weighting while the hidden value remains saved for calculations sake. Let's calculate on the example of a Baza (Prime) with MR10 (we will always use the highest MR variant on weapons with multiple variants), Let's take an arbitrary ammount of weighting for now its a weapon that gets the job done but isn't too good in the current days, so I feel like a weighting of 1,123 would be fine. It would obviously get calculated by all the other variables but lets put that aside from now: if(bazaWeighting<=0.999){ ... }else if(bazaWeighting>0,999){ bazaWeighting*=weaponQuantWeighting; } This would increase the weighting from 1,123 to 1,505.

I disagree with that, the game is based around aquiring gear and quite alot of weapons are collecting dust in my loadout because they are ever so slightly outclassed by another. They aren't bad, but they no longer need to be equipped in my gear. DA actually solves that problem by making previous investment in them shine. For example i recently had the Akbolto in my loadout, I loved the Akbolto Prime when they released but I no longer required them since there have been plenty weapons that filled their spot. I just recently had to use them again because of DA and with a Cascadia Flare Heat setup i put together on them, I was quite surprised myself on how well they actually performed. Random loadouts shine a light on your adaptability in making builds on the fly and I find that to be alot of fun. But unfortunatly some weapons cannot be saved even by a godly build.

So as it stands right now, I rly like Deep Archimedea but with 1 big problem. I didn't experience that problem myself yet, but I dread the day (or week) that I will have to face it. Random loadouts can choose weapons that are let's say very, very bad in higher level content and actually can't clear it all. And I specificly want to talk about weapons here since I don't think random frames are currently a big problem, because you can make any frame work even on higher levels (the only exception WAS Inaros). DE, you actually tied the MR requirements on weapons to their power level. Also alot of people will only Invest into weapons that they deem worthy of being used, so my proposition is to change how random loadout selction for this game mode works while keeping the rng part. This is obviously tricky to determine but especially section 8-12) should solve any 'abuse' of such a system. Suggestion: Weighted Random Loadouts (Weapons) 1) lower MR requirement -> lower weighting 2) higher MR requirement -> higher weighting 3) catalyst equipped -> higher weighting 4) forma invested -> higher weighting 5) weapon exilus adapter invested -> higher weighting 6) arcane adapter invested -> higher weighting 7) incarnon adapter applied -> change weighting to MR 16 weighting regardless of the MR on the base weapon 8) previous succeded deep archimedea -> lower weighting 9) previous succeded elite deep archimedea -> much lower weighting 10) missing from previous deep archimedea pool -> cumulative higher weighting 11) included in previous deep archimedea pool -> cumulative lower weighting 12) quantity of weapons invested -> multply weighting of individual weapons

Let's see, I highly doubt that tho

They also said that Gyre was going to remain super powerfull when they nerfed her. Ah yes, looking at the stats for 2023 she looks rly powerfull over there.

Intrepid Stand Styanax, Cathode Current Gyre, Exothermic Ember and many more do the same thing that Dante does at lower levels. If you balance a frame that you get quite late around lower levels then you have no god damn idea how to balance stuff in a game. I'd understand a nerf based on lower levels if you get Dante in the first 10-20 hours of the game, but that is 100% not the case. Other games have stuff like level and item sync to prevent exactly such things from happening but Warframe never bothered to implement such a system so thats how it is. High end builds and late game Warframes will be a straight up cheat code in low level content but thats not the Warframes fault and its fine, there is no reason to be competitive over low level content.

My best guess is that they'll prob put a light LoS check (like Dark Verse already has it) on Tragedy or something, it wouldn't destroy his damage output but hurt his kpm which would still be fine. But in return they need to adress the issues with overguard, since Dante has no energy regen for his team (unlike Styanax) he #*!%s players who run "on damage" effects for multiple reasons completely over.

This post is a cumulative suggestion to some aspects of the Sanctum Anatomica / Albrechts Labs in reward structure that might help to make this content future proof and keep it alive and well without being a nuisance for new or returning players in the future. 1) Bounties / Token System: As the game is approaching an inconceivable amount of dailies, one of the biggest outliers are standing caps that punish the players progression if they didn't max out their standing that day. Straight standing rewards have caused players to ignore said content if other content is currently taking up more grind or said content has been maxed out and thus finished. Earning tokens from bounties were a great way to free up a busy schedule by grinding a lot on a day or a couple of days and then trading those in to max out daily standing caps on busy days or days where you just want to play other content in the game. While Cetus and Fortuna are missing from that token system, even those syndicates are respectful of the players time, because the player is able to stockpile standing in the form of gems from mining and fish from fishing, thus also being able to skip the grind for a few days. The Nekralisk has the token system integrated into every vendor, which is great from a perspective of respecting the players time but was done in a way that might overwhelm newer players with a more complex system that isn't immediately obvious. The Zariman has 3 main ways of gaining standing: search and sollect voidplumes + voidplumes rewarded as standing + voidplumes from voidangels. Two additional ways are: exchanging resources for voidplumes and occasional voidplume drops as rewards from bounties, but these ones are limited to once a day purchase or limited by rng and are not counted as a main way of gaining standing. Voidplumes may be converted directly into standing with no complex conversions to maximise standing efficiency gains. The Sanctum has 2 main ways of gaining standing: search and collect voca + bounties. Three additional ways are voca from gruzzlings, exchanging resources for voca and occasional voca drops from bounties, 2 of these ways are limited to rng and one is limited to a daily purchase limit of one. Analyzing and comparing to the Zariman reveals two facts, 2 ways of standing have been massivly downgraded that being standing rewarded from bounties is rewarded as direct standing and the guaranteed token (Pinion: Zariman; Echo: Sanctum) per mission is gated behind rng as a gruzzling drop. Suggestions: - Either reward overcapping standing from Sanctum bounties as shrill voca or convert standing gains from straight standing to shrill voca in their respective ammount in general. - Make the echo voca drop from gruzzlings guaranteed or add a guaranteed echo voca drop to whispers and/or the fragmented bossfight. 2) Enemy and Mission Rewards / Drop Tables: Starting with the Zariman, you are incentivized to farm for loot on SP with normal not being out of the question if the Zariman content proves to be too hard for a casual player. This is achieved through increased ressource drops aswell as increased arcane drops both resulting from bonus modifiers inherent to SP. Voidgel Orbs proving to be a vaulable ressource for bile in the Helminth as well as duplicate additional arcanes being used to upgrade existing arcanes in the arsenal, being sold to other player or converted into vosfor to complete the arcane collection from other areas. Conjunction Survival gains increased drops of Lua Thrax Plasm on SP resulting additionally in an incentive to test your builds in the hardest content possible. Altho it is not inherent to the SP modifiers like on the Zariman its a forced drop increase baked into the drop tables. Tyana Pass and the Abyssal Zone have been following in these footsteps ever since up until WITW. None of the gamemodes in the Sanctum except the new Disruption have an increase in valuable rewards. The exception is Stela, which stands as the equivalent to Voidgel Orbs in the Zariman and is used for Archon Shard Fusion. Arcane drops are finite in mostly every mission: M. Defense: none possible Disruption: max. possible 1 -> (1 guranteed by the whisper) Survival, Exterminate, Alchemy: max possible 2 -> (1 guaranteed by the whisper, 1x33% chance from gruzzling) Assasination: max. possible 3 -> (2 guaranteed by the whisper and fragmented, 1x33% chance from the gruzzling) These rates do not change between normal and SP, thus resulting in the meta farm to be normal spam into extraction. It also seems that Effervo drops have been considered with the clan operation in mind because it now lacks any incentive to be played on SP at all. Suggestions: - Add Arcanes to the drop tables of Rogue Voidrigs and Bonewidows: total sum. drop chance 10% -> 1 in 10 rogue necramechs should drop an arcane on normal. Modifiers inherent to SP (mod drop chance booster will take care of the increase), this would also take care of the fact that you can't gain arcanes at all if you are farming for tome mods. - To account for higher necramech spawn frequency in disruption, necramech demolishers drop arcanes with a total sum. drop chance of 5% in normal. - Add the option to gain 2 guaranteed arcanes from the fragmented bossfight on SP (and 3 from the fragmented one to honour the time investment), so it has a difference in drops compared to the normal fight. 3) Melee Arcane Adapters / Bird 3 Archon Shards: Melee Arcane Adapters allow melee arcanes to be equipped to melees increasing the weapons potential in higher level content. All other types of adapters (primary, secondary and amp) are acquired without rng from shops by their respective vendors. That respective vendor should be determined by "Why should that vendor have that item?" and not by "This is the newest content, now farm the newest thing from there", which is the approach that has been taken with melee arcane adapters. Amp arcane adapters are an exception since they unlock an additional arcane slot for your amp and amps never needed an increase in performance before the Zariman, which included amp performance into endless scaling content. Melee arcane adapters on the other hand help with performance in higher level content specificly and should thus be unlocked by the same vendor that unlocks primary and secondary arcane adapters: Teshin. There is no need to add them to Acrithis too since Duviri doesn't reward any melee arcanes. ADITTIONALLY ADAPTERS OF ANY KIND SHOULD BE IN NO WAY GATED BEHIND WEEKLY LIMITED RNG. Regarding the move of Kahl's weekly Archon Shard to Bird 3, that reward should not interfere with daily standing gains as stated by the following post. Suggestions: - Add the weekly Archon Shard as a cost for either 10 or 15 Echo Voca instead (15 Echo Voca -> 30k Standing, keeping the same standing cost), together with the suggestion mentioned in the first section (Make the echo voca drop from gruzzlings guaranteed or add a guaranteed echo voca drop to whispers and/or the fragmented bossfight) you can obtain the guaranteed archon shard by engaging with the content in multiple ways, from boss grinding to speedrunning usual missions.

I agree with everything except that one, enemies themselves got no worthwhile drops except whispers and gruzzlings which are a finite one time spawn. The SP version has a pretty huge increase in difficulty but with no reward increase at all, no valuable drop table increases and no altered drop tables from rotations. I've already talked about this in multiple posts but... compared to Zariman all missions in the Sanctum are inferior even to armageddon (which is regarded as the worst Zariman mission), as vosfor has become one of the more important ressources in the game you are slowing your grind down by playing Sanctum missions instead of Zariman. Necramechs are a huge damage check for alot of builds and the only thing they drop is an occasional Lanthorn, they don't even drop Necramech Mods which would've helped new players alot and could've been a nice profit farm for all players alike. They also could've dropped arcanes at a lets say 20% total drop chance per necramech with Eximus Necramechs having 25%, that would make a 40%/50% drop chance on SP and a 60%/70% drop chance with a mod booster. Tldr: I currently feel stupid for playing SP Alchemy, because SP actually increases nothing but annoyance in this gamemode.

The entire lab already had no enticing drops to begin with, why so surprised? Labs are from a reward perspective the worst DE has done in a while by a longshot. And I'd say the disruption got the best of it... at least it got increased reward from playing it on SP: more capillaries. The rest got #*!% all. The best way of farming tome mods is actually spamming normal mirror defense and extract at round 4, the best way of farming tennokai mods is spamming normal alchemy and extract at 4 cruicibles, the best way to farm melee arcanes is spam normal assasination and the survival got no drops at all. In the Zariman we had thrax, here we have nothing.

Additionally I was so happy that I got 2x3 day mod drop chance boosters from the circuit, until I realized they are still only usefull on the Zariman and completely useless everywhere else. Why did DE even bother to add the phrase "affects arcanes" if they are literally completely useless everywhere else and don't seem willing to give us something like that again. I am just sitting here login on checking if a Zariman omnia fissure is up and if not -> log out. It's just... sad.