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SunBlade_ger

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Posts posted by SunBlade_ger

    Can't join by invite, or invite others

    in Multiplayer

    Posted

    On 2020-06-10 at 4:22 PM, 1004470 said:

    Can anyone explain/ help?

    short explanation: WFs networking code is broken and can not cope with normal router behaviour.

    my workaround may help, if your router works in a certain way.
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1195761-bug-matchmaking-nat-and-general-networking-bug-with-a-possible-workaround/?do=findComment&comment=11608874

    if you want a long and technical explanation you are free to read the whole thread. 🤓

    Other players can't connect to my party

    in Multiplayer

    Posted

    exposing yourself to the whole internet is always a bad idea. you should do that only temporary, in order to test something.

    WF has some serious networking issues since its inception. what you describe sounds more like a connection timeout problem. since WF does not send heartbeats in order to keep the connection open for incoming punch through attempts, you need to work around that problem on your side. if your router allows you and you know how, you can try increasing your UDP connection timeout. if you spend hours in your dojo waiting for trade partners, you need to increase that value to hours.

    and/or you can tackle the problem from another angle. although, i did not encounter the error you describe (players loosing connection after joining), my workaround may help you create fixed ports for outgoing connections. if your router exhibits the described behaviour, then that should alleviate all of your matchmaking problems.
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1195761-bug-matchmaking-nat-and-general-networking-bug-with-a-possible-workaround/?do=findComment&comment=11608874

    you may also want to reboot your router after each change in order to flush its NAT table.

    Problems with inviting/being invited.

    in Multiplayer

    Posted

    i am not entirely sure the bug i found is related to the friend-list blackout, but i can recreate all the invite bugs at will. you may want to try my workaround till DE fixes this.
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1195761-bug-matchmaking-nat-and-general-networking-bug-with-a-possible-workaround/?do=findComment&comment=11608874

    also, "Analyze Network" is utterly useless at the moment. your hosting capabilities do not get tested in any way. the "All Systems nominal." messages, just confirms that your router is powered on. and the "Strict-NAT" message, just confirms your router is working properly and prevented some common port collisions.

    Port and NAT problems

    in Multiplayer

    Posted

    i just tested the port scanner IDS of my firewall. guess what? warframe takes the cake. again.

    whenever i host a game the IDS of my firewall lights up like a christmas tree. clients don't just connect to the assigned port, they also try at least the following two ports.
    why? i can not even imagine any explanation for this behaviour. if you can connect to the port you where told to connect, why do you also try others??? and even if you could not connect to the port, why would you assume that any other port would succeed???

    i am a little bit scared to dig any deeper, but also curious how deep this rabbit hole actually is.

    Port and NAT problems

    in Multiplayer

    Posted

    15 hours ago, Unimira said:

    This is causing issues since I'm not the only one playing Warframe on my LAN, whoever starts the game first will get the ports bound to them and the other will run into NAT issues.

    unfortunately i also haven't found any setting which forces WF to use another port.
    if you know how to set up port forwarding rules in your router:
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1195761-bug-matchmaking-nat-and-general-networking-bug-with-a-possible-workaround/?do=findComment&comment=11608874
    this may help you play with each other.

    Severe matchmaking issues

    in Multiplayer

    Posted

    On 2020-05-27 at 4:23 AM, Alphawuff said:

    I have both 4990 and 4995 manually opened on my downstream router for both TCP and UDP pointed at my desktop,

    that won't work. currently the game client ignores all port settings and only listens on UDP 4950 and 4955.

    if you want multiple PCs on your network to run warframe you currently need to forcibly rewire ports:
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1195761-bug-matchmaking-nat-and-general-networking-bug-with-a-possible-workaround/

    Losing connection to hosts upon loading into map

    in Multiplayer

    Posted

    this issue seems to exist across all platforms since the inception of WF.
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/649-port-forwarding/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/712-its-broken/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1618-friends-offline-problem/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1178302-friendlist-offline-cannot-invite-players-due-to-appearing-offline/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1193687-clients-get-kicked-out-of-the-party-at-the-start-of-mission/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1195332-online-friends-list-broken/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1195636-i-cant-see-my-friends-in-friendlist-and-i-appears-offline-to-them/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1195728-unable-to-invite-friends-to-session/

    and i might have found the root of the problem:
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1195761-bug-matchmaking-nat-and-general-networking-bug-with-a-possible-workaround/

    Clients get kicked out of the party at the start of mission

    in Multiplayer

    Posted

    you are not the first nor the only ones. this issue exists for over seven years now.
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/649-port-forwarding/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/712-its-broken/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1618-friends-offline-problem/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1195636-i-cant-see-my-friends-in-friendlist-and-i-appears-offline-to-them/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1195332-online-friends-list-broken/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1195728-unable-to-invite-friends-to-session/

    i may have found the reason for almost all matchmaking and network errors:
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1195761-bug-matchmaking-nat-and-general-networking-bug-with-a-possible-workaround/
    but it will take DE some time to fix this, because it is a fundamental flaw in their understanding of UDP. and probably needs large rewrites of code across all modules. unfortunately my "quick" workaround only works for routers which allow you to ignore internet standards and break themselves.

    • Like 1

    Unable to invite friends to session

    in Multiplayer

    Strict Nat

    in Multiplayer

    Posted · Edited by SunBlade_ger

    i have shown this thread to an actual Network Technician.
    that took a while but once he stopped laughing, he explained to me that:
    - "Strict-NAT" is a bogus term he never heard about.
    - DEs explanations have enough truth in them to make 'em seem legitimate, but ultimately "that is not how NAT works".
    - being able to connect to each other can be attributed to crappy and insecure routers, and "pure luck".

    after a quick google search showing DE is not the only one suffering from this strict nat problem, he concludes: that there is someone selling non-functional networking code to game developers.

    my advice for DE: check your contracts to see if you can prosecute that scammer. and fix that code asap.

    • Like 3

    Squad Members Getting Kicked When Starting a Railjack Mission

    in Multiplayer

    Posted

    since DE already got their basics wrong, i think that, the failures are rippling down into actual matchmaking, and that this is DEs fault.

    for me, railjack works just fine, but ...
    i am fortunate enough to own an enterprise grade router and have the knowledge to pretend to confirm to DEs broken idea of NAT.
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/13981-strict-nat/?do=findComment&comment=11578925
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/13982-firewall-problems/?do=findComment&comment=11578773

    out of academic curiosity: does that happen to you guys only in railjack? or also on normal missions?
    i would like to know if DE uses an other matchmaking system for railjack than for normal missions.

    Starting mission in public.

    in Multiplayer

    Posted

    you are not the only one who has those problems:
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1182724-fail-to-join-session-every-time-from-my-friend/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1185445-hosts-make-this-game-uplayable/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1186461-playable-only-as-host-even-after-matchmaking-settings-changed-to-all/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1186903-failed-to-join-session/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1186923-cant-invite-or-join-a-session/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1187491-appears-to-be-offline/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1188209-player-is-offline/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1190597-port-forwarding-issue/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1191088-matchmaking-issues-and-invites/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1191100-i-cant-send-or-get-invites-could-not-deliver-invitation/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1193687-clients-get-kicked-out-of-the-party-at-the-start-of-mission/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1193856-matchmaking-fails-half-the-time-when-starting-from-dojo/
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1193932-invitation-bug/
    and those are just the threads from the first page.

     

    i am fortunate enough to own an enterprise grade router and have the knowledge to pretend to confirm to DEs sick and twisted idea of NAT.
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/13981-strict-nat/?do=findComment&comment=11578925
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/13982-firewall-problems/?do=findComment&comment=11578773

    when i start a void fissure capture, i am in a full squad before the timer even starts counting. any other fissure mission is full when i hit the loading screen.
    even when i start a random starchart mission to test something, and forget to turn off public matchmaking, after a few minutes a rookie will show up.

     

    yes, the starchart can be a wasteland where you meet other people once upon a blue moon. but when you do nightmare missions, void fissures, sorties or bounties from cetus or fortuna, and don't find others you are out of luck. because that means your router adheres to internet standards and common sense and protects you properly.

    Strict Nat

    in Multiplayer

    Posted

    On 2013-03-14 at 3:52 PM, [DE]Glen said:

    In those reply packets the server tells the game what *external* ports were used (ie: what your router mapped the outgoing data to be from).

    We can't assume we can send to 3962 on your router (because it might have mapped your data out some other port if 3962 was already used) so we look at where the packet came from and use that for the reply-to-address.

    If the test packets went *out* different ports it's called Strict NAT because it means each remote peer must reply to a different address.

    The problem is that if server A thinks it has to talk to you your router on port 1234 to reach you and server B thinks it has to use port 5678 we have no idea what to tell another player to use when they need to send you packets.

    what the hek are you talking about???
    the entire purpose of NAT is to rewire outgoing connections to arbitrary ports in order to map replies to the right local host. you can not use that port to establish incoming connections.
    and the entire purpose of port forwarding is to accept incoming connections for a local host, where only the local host / admin knows that port number, and that port number can not be inferred by outgoing connections.

     

    On 2013-03-24 at 10:43 AM, polarity said:

    In addition to that, you're telling people to forward ports, but have failed to mention anything about DHCP / 'Obtain an IP address automatically'. Port forwarding is going to fail unless the IP address that it is to is static. If the router assigns the player's PC a different IP address next time they turn on their computer, then they're going to have the same problem all over again, unless they change the port forwarding to the new IP.

    fortunately most consumer grade routers identify LAN hosts by their MAC, and some don't even allow you to directly specify an ip address.

     

    On 2013-04-17 at 4:05 PM, [DE]Steve said:

    The truth is, we don't have a publisher, so we have p2p as the only financially feasible way for us to launch this game and launch it globally. So far our stats say its ~7% on strict NAT and I agree with those posting here... that number is too damn high!

    I am not making excuses, but certainly we are not alone in having complexity to resolve these issues: https://support.leagueoflegends.com/entries/20133372-Port-Forwarding

    yes i agree 7% is way to high, because it should be 0 cases, because what you depict as "Strict-NAT" is bugged networking code.
    and no, LoL has not the same problems as you guys, they have too many servers where replication and configuration becomes increasingly difficult.
    WF is the only big game which uses p2p. everyone else either hosts their own servers and gives their players just a client (LoL, StarCraft), or they host relay servers to keep track of the state of the game server and connect clients (ME3).
    sometimes, game devs build dedicated servers, we can host on our linux boxes. but that only works for games which do not have ingame shops (Factorio).
    multiplayer based indie games commonly use a lobby system, where one player hosts a game and other can connect to.
    oh, and by the way: Warframe uses a Lobby system, not p2p. p2p would eliminate host migrations, because everyone would be server and client at the same time. but host migrations are proof that WF is not p2p.
     

    On 2014-06-14 at 9:38 PM, xethier said:

    might be time to think about a newer/better router.

    no, since their inception all internet access routers can NAT and port forward. the only legitimate reason to buy a new router is when your model has critical security flaws, which can not be fixed, or you get an ISP upgrade and your router is too slow to utilize the full capabilities of your internet access.

     

    On 2015-03-19 at 2:06 PM, Juniperus said:

    NHcGo2e.png

    aGcl49B.jpg

     

    I don't really know what to do more T^T

    after two years this is still a thing.
    i am sorry mate, there is nothing you can do, except to wait for DE to fix their game client.

     

    On 2016-10-03 at 3:44 PM, Seruai said:

    How many years has it been, and all DE has done is make fixes to make suffering host migration not as bad? Why not just..oh, i dunno...FIX THE ACTUAL PROBLEM? Seriously. Sitting here in 2016, no strict nat, ports open, allowed through firewall, and yet I still can't connect to other players, but I can host fine, which would be fine if I ever got host. I've sent in a ticket. No help. Had a guide try to help, all 3 days of endless ideas didn't help. He said he'd contact some of the team, but they're conviently "out of office." This "issue" is really just...ruining the experience. 

    Just.....get some dedicated game servers, DE. Really.

    Sincerely, a dissapointed tenno. 

    there is no way they can host their own game servers. their network code is a convoluted mess, which uses up an ungodly amount of network bandwidth.
    at the moment we can only hope WF becomes someday a true p2p game where host migrations are eliminated.

     

    seriously DE? after seven years you still struggle to understand ip basics? i shudder at the thought what will happen to WF, when IPv4 gets laid off and IPv6 becomes the standard.
    if your bases already need some serious fixing, i wonder what else is broken.

    • Like 2

    Firewall Problems

    in Multiplayer

    Posted

    On 2013-03-04 at 4:22 PM, [DE]Glen said:

    Warframe normally uses UDP ports 4950 and 4955. Your firewall needs to let traffic on those ports from any address through to your PC (and from these ports on your PC to any address).

    Does that mean the port option in the settings menu has no effect?
    https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1193244-port-and-nat-problems/?do=findComment&comment=11574430

     

    On 2013-03-04 at 4:25 PM, [DE]Glen said:

    Bonus technical information for how we decide that you have a firewall problem:

    1) The game sends a special UDP ping packet to two different servers

    2) The servers reply back to the sender with a packet containing the visible public address & port

    If it doesn't get a response from a server it waits a bit and tries again a few times. After a while it gives up -- it assumes that if the reply packet couldn't make it back that it was because a firewall somewhere along the way blocked the packet; in theory other issues could account for the response not making it back but in practical terms it means you're still going to have serious problems playing with other people if they can't 'reply' to data you send them.

    Bonus trivia: if both replies make it back we check to see if the public addresses that our servers saw were the same; if they are different this means that the NAT is strict and makes it extremely hard for our servers to relay connection information to other players (if we can't say what public port your router will use we can't tell other players how to talk to you).

    Did you forget a paragraph? because nowhere is written that you test the ports i have set in the settings menu, which is pretty weird.
    also, you should expect ports for outgoing connections to be randomized, because good firewalls will do that to protect you from penetration attacks.

    i hope this is just an oversimplified and overshortened explanation, because . . .
    in order to properly test the hosting capabilities of the game client, you ned to ...
    1. test outgoing connections:
       a. send a packet from the configured ports to a test server on the internet.
       b. when the test server replies from the targeted port, and the game client receives the reply, outgoing connections work.
    2. test incoming connections:
       a. establish an outgoing connection to a control server on the internet.
       b. transmit the configured ports to the control server.
       c. the control server orders a test server to connect, from a random port, to your publicly visible ip targeting the configured ports.
       d. when the test server is able to establish a connection, incoming connections work.

    Port and NAT problems

    in Multiplayer

    Posted

    WF support suggested i use a VPN.

    a VPN should not change opened ports. but i have already seen much weirder bugs in WF. So, got a ProtonVPN account, installed OpenVPN, and connected to a server in the Netherlands.

    after firing the game client up i immediately get a warning message about strict nat. no surprise there, i am hiding behind a vpn after all.
    but the message says i should forward ports 4950&4955 to my vpn ip. again utterly ignoring my port settings.

    while playing i use Process Explorer to watch port allocation. as expected only UDP ports 4950&4955 get opened in listen state.

    WF still ignores my port settings.

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