Rathalio

I understand your point I think. What I'm understanding is that you expect more ease and comfort with a Warframe kit to consider a Warframe really good. And what Limbo brings to you currently is not comfortable enough, would require some QoL, more consistency... That's fair and understandable, even if it's more of a matter of taste imo and not functionality but that's completely fine and makes sense. 🤝

If you can do the most challenging kind of content by using this Warframe strengths and succeed. I don't see where it has to do with "liking" the Warframe too much. It's not because you convinced yourself Limbo is unplayable that it is true. You statement is incoherent not constructive, you just say something false then try to use it to claim "Limbo bad". It neither make sense nor justify your claim. Also again that's deviating from the initial topic.

Yes, quite a bit even. Also did 3 runs to level 9999 Steel Path circuit with him when I still had to get some incarnons here. His weakness towards eximus is not that big of a deal with shield gate and rolling guard. Especially since that the only thing you really have to be careful about. And for instance I consider Limbo to be one of the strongest Warframes in game as I was able to push him towards very challenging content with some ease. Not every Warframe has access to enough tools to achieve that. If you can believe me on that, do you understand why I claim that "it's more than fair" that you have to at least deal with eximus units? Are you interested about builds and strategies you might have missed about Limbo? I can DM what I'm using if that's interesting for you. PS : It's still annoying to play against Corpus when Nullifier units spawns though. But it has always been a thing and they are not present in most of the content anyways.

They really do have a enormous amount of health especially in Steel Path. What you might be missing is abusing priming enemies with different elements & effects to weaken them paired with Galvanized Shot. Which is overall the trick to kill very tanky enemies in high level content.

Yet Limbo is today still extremely strong. You have one and one only threat, namely eximus units. And it's more than fair. Seriously you all seem to talk more about personal emotions towards you favourite warframes that got some adjustments over the years. Rather that acknowledging how nerfs are rare and most of the time strongly justified. And on the opposite side how buffs are very common instead. Here the topic is about if Dante would be in line for a nerf or not. And he hardly fits in any specific category that justified nerfs over the years. And one of his strongest asset is overguard which isn't just a Dante thing. He's only responsible for accessing it maybe a bit too easily.

It is indeed supposed to happen this week. But they certainly need to hotfix to enable it. So wait & see they will communicate about it anyways.

If you talk about eximus, they didn't nerf Limbo, they just reworked eximus. It nerfed him indirectly yes but that's not targeted towards Limbo. The only instance where they really nerfed him it was against Sentients specifically during scarlet spear because of how underwhelming it was at the time that sentient were trivialized by the time stop forever. And overall it's some power that has to be under control since how cheesy by nature Limbo's kit is. They didn't nerf Chroma they fixed some math that weirdly enough had been wrong since his release. I know it's quite silly and a shame but at that time the devs didn't really wanted to nerf him. They wanted to fix him and they were pretty clear on that when it happened. Wukong has been nerfed yes. It is following their anti-afk policy which is no surprise and well known. (Old Mesa peacemakers, old Ash blade storm, old Banshee quake were changed for that exact same legitimate reason. And it's starting to be very very old changes that don't really compare to modern Warframes designs.) And it is absolutely not similar to Dante's case of debated "overpowered" strength. Khora, honestly I don't remember exactly what they changed. The only thing I kept in my memory is that again it was against the afk spot in survival missions. Which falls in the same category as Wukong. And overall we have much more instances where DE buffs Warframes directly rather that direct nerfs. And globally we are in a PvE game, it's a lot more satisfying for everyone to buff something rather than nerfing something like it would be necessary to balance a PvP game. That's why they generally go only in that direction. And it's part of the mission of augment mods, reworks and global adjustments. That's why I say nerfs are very unlikely in general. They really don't come often and without a strong motivation. Here we are talking about a Warframe that mostly excels at supporting as well as DPS at the same time. Nothing that is about AFK strategies or breaking the game too much. It's mostly just pure powercreep that maybe went a bit too far this time. And globally what's making Dante really strong is his easy access to overguard for everyone and overguard being very OP if accessed easily. Double gating, status & CC immunity are making the difference when this overguard can't break easily at all. If they nerf something they should first touch overguard again tbh. Especially since it's also breaking some other Warframes like Chroma and some synergies involving taking damage on purpose to trigger arcanes and buffs.

Then you can't really call that a nerf, it's more of a fix. And the initial question was about debating if Dante should be considered "OP" or not and then maybe deserve a nerf.

Tbh I didn't really give that much of an extended try to Gyre before they got their first augment mod. Also I was referring for example to Chroma's vex armor being "nerfed" by some code fix because the math were just wrong. But comparable to Gyre I guess there is also Mirage trap build that was capped to prevent crashes. Although it's still largely strong enough to work well.

Your spell management isn't hard at all with base 45sec duration on your buffs and natural talent or amber shards for casting speed. Yes. ???? Excuse me sir, but this is quite a silly question. Yes. Dante kinda has everything you can dream of in his kit and works so well that it would be lying to pretend he is not "OP". He's only lacking CC, but that's definitely not an issue for him. Anyways, I don't remember DE ever nerfing a Warframe directly apart from some side effect of a fix on some broken code. So I'm not sure that you should be worried about a nerf tbh. Although I think these people, just like me to some extent, fear a bit the powercreep gap that Warframe can create. And the issue I can see coming is that new content that DE will continue making will powercreep to oblivion too and then force players to play with the newest Warframes in a way. Which would be a shame since your arsenal diversity in this game is one of its strongest points imo.

Yes, of course it works. Just like with Mesa and Titania.

Have you tried the new updated Loki decoy? And its augment mod also? Because it's seriously strong and has nothing to envy other frames. And to compare with something close, Nyx's mind control sucks real hard in comparison. And side note towards overguard, Loki with his augment for disarm has access to radiation procs that is one of the small few CC that works on overguard and eximus units. As well as his decoy now being relevant, it's still a priority target for enemies and in the meantime you are always invisible anyways (and Loki has the easiest to use and longest full invisibility spell already). Today, Loki's disarm and Decoy are already "support" assets as CC is support, ain't it? Also Decoy's augments primes enemies well. And even though it's far from a very practical augment, switch teleport augment can prove useful as a support to protect allies like in archon hunt defence for example. You have your decoy, priming, and distracting enemies and even dealing some damage. Then, you switch teleport sometimes to refresh an invulnerability buff on the defence operative. And you overall disarm enemies making them quite less significantly dangerous. I feel like Loki is definitely good at a lot of stuff people don't seem to think about sadly. /Personal opinion below/ I'm not such a big fan of how Triburos made his community suddenly vocal about Loki or CC in general tbh. A lot about what he says about CC and "DPS meta" is wrong or incomplete at best. And either I believe it would have been better to release his video earlier or wait the update and to try out the significant changes Loki just got. Like, it was legit to complain about DE not updating Loki unlike every other warframes pretty much. But now that DE gave him attention, you all come out and complain about him. And on many occurrences you didn't even try the changes...

Honestly, it really depends how and where you play the game. In low-mid level content DPS become the easiest answers to anything since the power creep went by. DPS warframes become able to instantly get rid of anything threat in most of regular missions in game. And in the video he is complaining about newest game modes not being welcoming for CC. And he forgot to mention Mirror defenses. Because in this mission you really only care about good CC at the end of the day and Nova for example is probably the most powerful Warframe to play here. Also Disruption are way more comfortable with CC, since you really only need to kill a few select enemies and so with your weapons. Also grabbing enemies with CCs like vortex, or larva is good more efficient to speed up Netracells rather than killing enemies outside of the range. Although if you are playing high level endurance runs in steel path, long circuit runs etc CC & support Warframes have the most value. Because anyways at this point you have your DPS through good weapon builds and synergies. And the help of CC, protection and buffs that Warframes can bring, this help is most welcome and comfortable in that context. Also DPS Warframes usually have no good enough survivability tools for when any hit can one shot you. And you often also need to protect objectives that are getting shredded in seconds without CC, and DPS is never going to be better at this than CC. PS : I know the point about Overguard and Eximus units sometimes completely denying CC. But think about it for a second, if they were not here, it would be like when the people considered CC to be "king". And it was "king" because it required no effort like today the DPS strategy is the lowest effort strategy. Without Overguard, you can basically sit and annihilate any threat by using CC. Which is as boring if not more than a DPS only strategy. And honestly would kill endurance run flavour, challenge and reason to play harder content like this.

Are you sure they manage to fall through the map? It used to be an issue on open maps like on Europa defence missions where the NPC could literally walk out of bound, which has been fixed since then. But I've never seen or heard anyone experiencing in archon missions. Although there is an important fact you have to keep in mind, in archon missions and in general if I'm not crazy. The operative can be downed a certain amount of times (somewhere like 3 times I believe, it's hard to find a confirmation on the wiki). Once every chances are used they die instantly and you instantly loose the mission. There is a reset button next to the arsenal for that in the simulacrum already.

Better be saving them anyways since the drop table update on netracells still comes with the patch tomorrow.

That would be cool that classic alt helmets would get voidshell variants. But every skin as voidshell is definitely never happening x')

They would need to severely reduce the drain of companion mods for it to work or give more capacity like for Necramechs that have 80 instead of 60. More slots alone won't be usable. That's quite subjective imo. But I do find many of beasts precepts useful if you like to play with them especially regular Kubrows. Although they are not all equal for sure and the vulpaphyla that deals puncture stuff never worked and some of predasite ones are not super functional for sure. But overall it's as many as with robots that are truly crap, they all need some work but that's not specific to beasts precepts.

I feel like Kubrows/Kavats and their infested counterparts suffer the most because of the mod slot limitations and capacity. Their precepts are mostly fine honestly. Other companions have their damage modding separated on their weapons which makes them a lot more flexible especially since the introduction of bond mods and open to powerful synergies. You don't have that luxury with non robotic pets, you can have utility + damage but you can do that with robotic companions which is unfair imo.

Tbh life support is only an issue in the context of solo survival in Steel Path. Here you need to have a very high and steady KPM in order to sustain life support without a "loot frame" because of the Steel Path nerf. Which in this precise context I would agree it's annoying especially when you compare to a non solo run. But as soon as you start playing with a squad without any optimization even, it's already a lot easier to sustain life support without requiring anyone to perform particularly well. (Just because the drain doesn't scale with the squad size and so more people = less time for the enemies to reach someone and get killed and a bigger area can be covered without any effort.) It is neat to some extent for the solo challenge but at the same time not really allowing to chill and farm in this farm efficient game mode that well which imo this mode is kinda meant for. That's why, I think that the quite significant difference between solo and squad play in survival can be discussed. Then if you just consider it just doesn't work in general I disagree.

Evasion is only translate to damage reduction for AoE attacks, otherwise it's just a chance of not getting hit, so HP on Xaku are worthless anyways. And it's not even like they had a lot of armor to give more value to it. As it was already said, rolling guard and shield gating is more than enough already, especially since you'll regenerate your shield better thanks to the evasion no registering hits that could interrupt the shield recharge process. Xaku's survivability is all about dodging but made easier. And Thrax Centurions are melee units... so just try to avoid their attacks.

Especially for solo, Limbo is the most versatile in circuit imo (since excavation and defence are the biggest run killer). You go with a big cataclysm, good duration and the augment that gives you huge damage buff with your 3rd ability. You can helminth Nekros fear ability to shred armor with a good range and enemies fleeing are not an at all issue with that stasis on. When you get used to is you only have to focus on enemies with overguard, and that's not an issue if you play with rolling guard. And with decrees anything will do damage together with your own buff and can even kill enemies through the rift plane by spreading statuses. It works easily for survival, excavation, can be a little slow on extermination, void flood doesn't require anything particular. For defence you are also quite safe, you just really have to keep up with killing enemies with overguard first and watch out for blitz and shock eximus which is truly the only threat. The only mission that might be a little wonky is assassinations I'd say, I didn't experiment that much with Limbo since they released the corrupted Jackal and Nekros armor shred doesn't work iirc. But with decent weapons and then the decree scaling I don't think that's a real issue after all. You can event kill Jackal with the operator amp at some point so... I've been playing until enemy reached level 9999 a few times with Limbo.

Since launch they have been very weak sadly. I'm not sure if they were nerfed pre-release or that DE was really afraid to make them too strong at that time. But it has always been hard to understand for me how weak they are compared to even any of the weakest other arcanes that got released before and after. There is one scenario in which you can deal infinite damage with them but it's borderline an exploit and doesn't have a good application in a real mission scenario anyways. So let's pretend this scenario doesn't exist. Residual arcanes for me really need to have either more chance to proc or make it guaranteed every 5 kills to be decent. Theorem arcanes, all of them have pretty weak effects indeed and also have huge restrictions so I don't understand why on the contrary they are not quite strong to compensate for the restrictions? They definitely need some love and rework. And again it's sad that it has been the case since they got released.

I mean they can definitely do it in theory. Although you will have to consider a few things. - They choose a photorealistic rendering style for Warframe. Black energy being something else than almost invisible is more of a NPR style (non-photorealistic) and it will clash with the game art choice to some extent. - Adding a slider to control the alpha on energy emission is doable but that would also mean they would have to refactor a lot of code and materials all over the existing game assets. To make it possible. Aka that's quite a big task. (10+ years of content to work with) - Textures are already fixed in games. To animate energy they either play with the mesh geometry, the UV coordinates or use a series of textures to animate it like a video clip basically. Why? Because it's waaaaaaay much more efficient for you GPU & CPU rather than computing procedural textures in real time. I'm not sure what you were thinking with that idea. This is actually the most reasonable and smart solution imo. They could create a special color palette for energy color that renders energy with deferent settings in general to make some stuff currently not achievable possible. Although it may or may not still require them to rework their energy materials in general as so far it wasn't needed for them to be easily swapped, so they are likely not in a ready state for allowing such control. This is also definitely a good point, DE would have to explore many scenarios where it could break the game. Which is quite a big task in an game that has more than a decade worth of content. And some of it has already been an issue, some ability spam together with eidolons ludicrous amount of effects gave birth to a global option to reduce all the effects.