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(XBOX)Deathstroke52dc

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Posts posted by (XBOX)Deathstroke52dc

  1. 7 hours ago, (PS4)leduanjohan said:

    There is no need for any change in mechanics when you can alleviate the problem by adding new mechanics in the form of new game modes. For example, what I suggested. Make a variant of survival where your powers are randomly disabled; another variant could be to disable them in an order so that it is more predictable and teams can plan ahead; another one yet, could be speeding up or accelerating the scaling rate so that people don't have to spend so many hours to do their testings and experiencing really high level enemies. This last variant I believe is what could make more players attracted to high level content. The current duration it takes for reaching high levels is what discourages players from trying that content in my opinion. I mean, who doesn't want to obliterate a level 3000 bombard xD

    The developers don't have to change anything. They can just add stuff in the form of variant game modes based on those we already have. Lunaro and archwing were not very appealing additions, so why not expand, as you say, content that already works like survival and defense.

    I talked about survival in specific as the leaderboards are completely pointless for this game mode. I don't have the same problem with defenses where a team or player can choose to do a set number of waves, a time will be given for that number of waves, and others may try to beat the same number of waves in a better time. Survivals, as they currently are, offer no serious competition. And I and many others consider competition end game.

    In the light that your suggestion takes the form of separate game modes, then I have no qualms with your suggestion. As long as It doesn't take away something from what we have currently, I don't disagree. If anything, it sounds like an intriguing and wonderful idea. And I'm sure a lot of players would enjoy it:)

    The leader-boards to me aren't a concern; I could care less about them. The competitive defense would be interesting to engage in. I see a few modifications that would be have to be made to accommodate it, but nothing major enough for me to be in opposition of. The game could benefit to an extent from a proper introduction to competitive play, as long as it was simply another way to enjoy Warframe. 

    One last thing. What I mentioned about the leader-boards; I don't view survival in a competitive light. I like making plans, having a team that communicates well, using the previous attributes to accomplish something, and having fun:) So when I suggest what I do about acknowledging endurance runners, I don't do so in a competitive context.

    Thanks for your input.

  2. 5 hours ago, (PS4)leduanjohan said:

    For improving survivals and making them really competitive in a fun way rather than what they currently are (whoever has the most patience will get the 1st place on the leaderboards), we should have our powers be randomly removed every 10 - 15 min, until we can't use any of them and are forced to extract or lose the rewards. Players would have to adapt to the situation, would have to rely on non meta powers and their teammates. And of course completely rework shadow step (-_-).  A good pretext for disabling powers could be that the oxygen will be depleted if those powers are used LOL. The best times on the leaderboards will be heavily dependent on luck, but at least i think it should be more fun competing that way than going for extended periods of time for the only satisfaction of seeing level 2000 enemies.

    Whenever i want to take some time away from the grind, I go to Mot with frames that don't have great cc abilities and try to do my best. Every time is a lot of fun, and the game is quite challenging without having to face level 200+ enemies. And of course no shadow step which completely destroys the fun of facing dangerous enemies and reacting to their attacks.

     

     

    An interesting thought. But then, the "top" players would be defined by luck more than anything (as you stated) and the only reason for such a change would be because YOU PERSONALLY believe that it would be more fun. Now opinions are NOT a bad thing, and, to an extent, we need them. I do not suggest that what I suggest is not opinionated, for it most certainly is. But I have also noted plenty of others who share my thoughts and interests and seek the same ends. But if your opinionated suggestion would actually hurt one group (the group I am trying to speak for), then I cannot agree with it. Causing abilities to randomly become useless would do three negative things:

    1) Frustrate players who don't necessarily play endurance runs but DO participate in endless missions. This is due to the fact that NO ONE (in their right mind) would enjoy something being taken away from them by a RNG that is completely out of their control. You know those missions you do that somehow get's completely messed up by a bug after you've accumulated enough rewards to be concerned of their loss? You're essentially asking for something like that to become a normality. That we have to play the game under the stress of knowing that everything could all fall apart without being able to stop it or even predict it. Negator bubbles are already a MAJOR obstacle to overcome, especially nowadays when fissures can drop them on your head at random. How well do you think it would go over if our abilities simply disappeared mid endurance run when we already spend a fair amount of effort keeping them from doing so via negatory affects? 

    2) Cause utter chaos and make well made plans become obsolete in a millisecond. Not to mention that In high levels, this mechanic could very well completely shut down an endurance run completely, assuming the abilities are taken away long enough for a person to die repeatedly. Especially when THERE ARE NOT EVEN MEDIOCRE WAYS TO SURVIVE EXTENDED ENDURANCE RUNS WITH WEAPONS ALONE.

    3) Discourage anyone from attempting endurance runs. Let's face it. PEOPLE LIKE CONVENIENCE. And those of us that like to work under pressure like to do so because with proper planning, execution, and understanding, the distance we can reach is in our control. If this mechanic were to be implemented, I can guarantee there will be less and less people doing endurance runs unless there is something else to counteract or balance it.

    Regardless of what you and I think of this idea, the point of this discussion is to find middle ground between ALL perspectives. Even if that's realistically impossible, what we CAN do is try to include as many as we can in the end result. I hear so many ideas that would directly and negatively affect a certain group of people. Major change SHOULD NOT be made  in an instant. There is a process to everything. And skipping that process causes conflict and collateral damage. While this change you suggest might even be where this game goes, implementing it so bluntly and without process would be foolish. Randomization of something SO ESSENTIAL is too big and too fast.

    That is why in my post, I DO NOT suggest something that would implement a major mechanic or change the game from what it currently is. I am only suggesting that avenues that are already available be more thoroughly explored, so that those that enjoy those avenues currently can continue to do so.

  3. Hainscat, you recently posted on an article I am involved in concerning this matter. This is a completely valid point and a modification on DE's part to make Reactor's and Catalyst's more rare could prove to be beneficial for the community.

    For example, if they were easier to obtain, more people would find more reason to explore more items, instead of just labeling them as "Affinity-Fodder" and looking for the best items so that they don't have to "waste their time" with "insignificant" items. On top of that, there would be more reason for legitimate testing and it is likely that there would be a diminished obsession over the "Meta" items and more interest in developing weapons an frames that suit each person's individual play-style preference. In essence, more people would think for themselves instead of relying on previous data to play the game. 

    As I see it, this could possibility open the door to a more cooperative community and make "Weapon Testing" a more valid way to spend one's time. And those of the community that enjoy doing so, could flourish.

    On the flip-side, how would this be implemented? There would still have to be some limitation to their access, but how much and what to do are the real question.

    Thanks for the suggestion hainscat. It's opened my eyes up to some interesting suggestions and ideas.

  4. 16 minutes ago, hainscat said:

    its ok im aware i generally dont explain things well its a very unfortunate trademark of mine. i have issues fleshing out ideas properly. the conversation originally started out as how to help make later levels more accessible and you commented specifically on how the number of weapons and the arsenal of effective gear dwindles significantly later on. certain weapons just become ineffective, the ancients stop caring about that Dread bow or that Hek shotgun. what i was trying to illustrate was that if they made the reactors and catalysts more readily available made them more common it would expand however only slightly the total weapons viable for late game. right now 30 mod slots on a rifle is pretty small especially when you need to fight high level enemies and the mod capacity is needed to get the damage off to actually make a dent. i can say right now i would rather have a 60 slot attica than a 30 slot attica in my sorties which i do. but taking half the capacity would force me to find weapons with higher base damage to buff up with fewer mods. part of the solution to the late game accessibility COULD be but might not be necessarily fixed if they made the catalysts and reactors more readily available. i brought the finance bit in as part of my argument as to why it would be easy for them to make them a bit easier to get. its not a huge chunk of their income when it comes down to 5$. if theres anything i didnt quite clarify please feel free to tell me ill do my best to explain.

    AAAHH. I see I see. Disregard my earlier, probably viewed as derogatory comments. You do indeed have a point. It all depends on, of course how big the chunk out of DE's wallet it would be. But I do agree that by making these items more accessible to the community, at least as far as platinum goes, it could make weapon testing a more common occurrence and therefore encourage more players to see just HOW effective they are. Widen the player bases horizons, so to speak. This could also help deal with some of the complaints that items are "abusive" or "overpowered", when in truth they are matched by other items or don't entail so much drama.

    It's a little hard for me to see EXACTLY what the consequences of such a change would be (good or bad), but you definitely have a point. That suggestion could work as it doesn't really affect the mechanics of the game. The next step to this would be determining how it would affect Warframe's financial status and that of DE. So more research should be put into that before we attempt to take action on it. Right now, I will focus on my recognition scheme. But I will definitely look into your suggestion.

    Consequently, I will include this post in my referral section.

  5. 5 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

    @(Xbox One)Deathstroke52dc

    DE Steve actually made a small mention on his last stream about making later levels more accessible to players.

    It was just a quick reply to a question but something might come of it.

    I think some players mistake the time spent with the purpose of that time.

    Really? I didn't notice it. Perhaps I will take a look  later. It would be fantastic if something DID come of it. 

    And yes, it is very clearly a common mistake that is made by players. It's alright though. That's what I'm  trying to do with this discussion; Enlighten other about the difference and help them understand why. Then hopefully there will be more of a distinction and less confusion/backlash about it.

  6. 5 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

    It's a sarcasm I already knew that they can do it but refuse to do it. This was suggested many times in the past already.

    Mission starting point or multiplier reduces playtime but they want as much playtime and as many player count as they can get. Just business reasons to make game's profile looks good.

    Yep. I get the sarcasm. Just used to responding to posts with less humor. Thank you for your input, by the way. I DO think it would be a great addition to the game and I already have a few thoughts on it. I'm just going to focus on the recognition thing for the time being, however. Baby steps, if you will.

  7. 7 minutes ago, hainscat said:

    this is true im not disagreeing with that but my comment on the financial setup over something which roughly translates from 5$-3 units. could easily be made free. help players in late game or get to late game, and would not make a huge drop in the Devs income. im not disputing anything else said in this thread.

    Okay. I apologize for disregarding your perspective. What you say is valid and your free to discuss it. But could you possibly discuss it somewhere that it is more relevant? That, or find a way to better tie it in to our current discussion? Perhaps you have and I'm just not understanding. Would you mind elaborating a little more?

  8. 28 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

    There should be an endurance mode where scaling goes 10-15x faster and spawning rate ramp up 2x faster to compress 6hrs run into less than 2hrs run.

    DE don't really know that someone ruined their health doing 6hrs+ session? Ohhh yeah it's by their own volition right?

    I'm not sure how to respond to this, lol. Well, I'd like to say that I do enjoy speculating on your "mission duration multiplier".

    What if there a sort of locker room mode in which you could choose the map and the starting point on the scaling chart? I'd find that to be entertaining indeed.

    However, I feel it might be too big of a change to shoot towards at this point. 

    And lols about the ruining of a persons health issue. Fortunately, it is doubtful that someone's health was significantly damaged by a single 6 hour run. Maybe if that was all they did. 

  9. 33 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

     

    There's also CC via Nyx and such instead of Volt Shield but DE put that synergy in danger when they added Nullifiers. Much like they removed Bows/Sniper viability for that level range. As it is, you don't need the level of damage Snipers / Bows do outside of endurance runs. Their Damage per shot doesn't catch up to their kill rate until you're facing enemies with massive HP. Much like CC, Bows / Snipers had a place in endurance runs as the "Designated Heavies Killer" while other players focus on AoE and Fodder enemies.

    This is another example of my previous post on how DE adds content and makes changes with no regard to scaling.

    But there is a difference between lvl 200 and 4k. It's the mods you use and the synergy you use. Your choices matter more and more as enemies scale. For something like Sorties you can just about put on random mods and finish a mission but the higher enemies scale the more that single mod difference matters.

    That's why many of us do endurance runs in the first place. We want our choices to matter. The same could hardly be said for the rest of the game.

    -Also, no self respecting endurance runner is going to use Naramon. It partially defeats the point of doing them.

    Yes yes yes. Agreed. Someone earlier highlighted the armor scaling difference between lvl 200 and 4000 enemies, but it helpful to us all that you mention the other differences as well. Some of which can and are considered to be even more important. And I love what you said about our choices mattering. That hit straight to the point and clarified a thought I had been trying to explain.

    And lol, I enjoy the description of Naramon in your last sentence. I find that method to be ineffective in later games anyhow, such as a mere eximus stat effect or stray shot could destroy you while invisible, which is risky, seeing as you have to aggressively engage in close combat when you're lat enough into the scaling.

  10. 2 hours ago, kuchn said:

    might have forgotten one that absolutely avoids to get hit...
    but u will definitely not jump around and shoot stuff and be very active at lvl 150+, since even a tank-nidus gets oneshot by a nullifier at those levels (and enters immortal stage blabla i know..but then lifesupport will eat ur &#! cuz ur killspeed goes down..)
    as you mentioned yourself, armor is the issue and there's only a handfull of machanics that go past it..not much creativity left besides 1/2 button spamming

    Which is why I suggest we put a little more spotlight on Endgame so it can become more "user friendly" than you make it out to be.

  11. 44 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

    This game gave players too much cheese it's both main design flaw and main selling point, many players feel good when they're uber OP but some players get bored because it becomes close to pointless cookieclicker.

    Get lvl cap or remove inf scaling won't cure your boredom, the gameplay was designed from mechanics then the numbers were filled in last as a finishing touch this way the numbers are easier to be adjusted than mechanics which were the foundation of those numbers.

    Get high because you slaughtered a lot of enemies then hit the refractory period because the same thing that let you get high is actually mechanically boring.

    The point you are making is completely based on personal opinion. Yes, some players may get bored of being "uber OP", but may also remind you that there are people who don't. And regardless, when you are playing for "Pseudo Endgame" purposes, your definition of OP becomes significantly different. At a point, there is actually a significant difficulty in eliminating enemies and dying yourself, especially if you are not prepared with the right mindset to do it. 

    In regards to "lvl caps", I don't want to remove or set one. I would like what I do to remain a challenge, but still viable. That is all. And again, this perspective is coming from someone that is bored of playing endgame. There are those of us that are NOT. At least not yet, lol.

    And while it's true that after the mentioned reflationary period is reached, the game can become mechanically consistent or redundant, it isn't necessarily boring. To go along with that observation, also make note that by recognizing endurance runs officially and in game, there is a higher statistical probability that endgame runs will have more options and will therefore be less "boring", as you say.

     

  12. 4 hours ago, hainscat said:

    my previous comment didnt follow the trend of the topic here but i felt that it was related on a level. endgame is in EVERY game regardless of its design. it can be you completed the story, or it can be you have every achievement. thats the beauty of the phrase, endgame. its the end of the game. i say im in the "endgame" of warframe but i wont have beaten it till i get every achievement, every weapon, till i have done EVERY THING. on the topic of what you guys have said about endurance runs and cheese tactics, i dont have much comment since im neither a cheese runner or an endurance runner. (i cheese for when i grind a boss that easy cause it gets the grind done faster) for major mechanics being ignored i havent experienced quite whats been described about the weapon limitations, but the devs need to pay much more attention to later game needs. early on you see a blue or gold potato (reactor catalyst) and think "huh... looks like it could be cool" but the game doesnt explicitly tell you whats its used for. so you dont often go for it. also as much as they say, everything is available in some way and it might be true, its not specifically available in some way to everyone. alerts spawn around the same time for rare items specifically around midnight for me. i dont have money to just spend whenever i get a new weapon even if it is 5$ there are a huge number of weapons in warframe and if youre achievement hunting... youre gonna want them all. just to say you have them. youre gonna want to be able to stand up and say "i got everything" and give someone a decent way to mod a weapon and help them level. yes progression is important, and later on the incentive to grind for primes is ENORMOUS but primes are only made by the sum of their mods as are warframes and regular weapons. no matter how high end the weapon is, the mods will be what makes it usefull. and right now its virtually impossible to decently acquire something that seems like it should be a necessity, doubling mod capacity. 

     

    one of the first steps i think they should take to help out endgame players is make the reactors and catalysts more easily available. they are horrendously rare as is for how many weapons there are, and yes i agree they should be at least difficult to attain. but right now it isnt a matter of can you handle the difficulty of the missions theyre on its do you have the stamina to become nocturnal and wait for the alert in the middle of the night. and even then it seems like reactors and catalysts SHARE their drop pool. so there isnt an alert for each the game randomly picks on of the two to drop and then poof gotta wait another 2 3 or 4 days for the next one and it might be the same one you got the first time. most of the missions i have seen them on cause i have a few when i tried to stay up for them and it was a very unhealthy and unwise choice, most of them missions are BELOW LEVEL 30 they can be completed by rank 7s or even lower if theyre skilled. it isnt a matter of difficulty its a matter of money or time.

    Yes, the game is realistically controlled by money and time. HOWEVER, enjoyment and discipline ARE ALSO relevant. The perspective you come from is only one of convenience and impatient decisions. This article is to look past that and address a problem that is centered in the nature of the gameplay, not the politics of the financial setup that is a part of the game. And regardless, the game itself is free and DE has to make money somehow. 

  13. 2 hours ago, kuchn said:

    might have forgotten one that absolutely avoids to get hit...
    but u will definitely not jump around and shoot stuff and be very active at lvl 150+, since even a tank-nidus gets oneshot by a nullifier at those levels (and enters immortal stage blabla i know..but then lifesupport will eat ur &#! cuz ur killspeed goes down..)
    as you mentioned yourself, armor is the issue and there's only a handfull of machanics that go past it..not much creativity left besides 1/2 button spamming

    Thank you for pointing out some of the specifics.

  14. 5 hours ago, hainscat said:

    this is false. the game does indeed have an endgame. and given that i have reached what im now considering end game (completing the war within, ramping up optional quests, etc) it is marked by recieving the Orvius blueprint or even crafting it as the orvius is the last weapon granted by completing a quest and it is from the LAST quest, and i am also feeling a TREMENDOUS drain on my wallet to ACTUALLY CONTINUE PLAYING. catalysts do not spawn commonly enough and of the alerts that drop a reactor or catalyst i end up with 5 reactor blueprints. doubling mod capacity on a weapon is something i would agree is a necessity for late game. the only other way to do it is to pay for it which is absurd. and before i hear the argument about supporting the devs, BULLS#&$. there is a fixed amount of platinum in the market at any given time and in any given relay. it is used up as it is traded around, so the devs will still make just as much money as before by making some potatoes easier to obtain. 5$ gets you 3 potatoes and ten spare platinum, THIS IS A PAY TO WIN MECHANIC. there are people that wont pay 5$ just to satisfy a dev team, some people get immense pride out of getting  EVERYTHING completely free and on their own through grinding. what the devs have done now is made it so once you get to endgame you will spend 24 hours all day no sleep watching your navigation for the potatoes to show up so you can grab a blueprint to craft ONE.

     

    your point about the functionality of missions and how the game becomes an exercise in breaking it to continue. this is false. i have seen many players that can logically continue handling a game with A LARGE variety of weapons and builds into level 80 and 100 survival missions, its hard, but its not restrictive if you PAY FOR THESE BENEFITS. this is what has happened here. i have set about since the rise of the Forma (angel choir plays) from what it was during the early beta when they still had the ugly navigation HUD it was IMPOSSIBLE to get them even with a rank 15 prime boasting tank of a bastion running around and effortlessly carrying you through a void tower. personally i prefer outside of prime hunting now through the relic system to do all of my missions solo. i find it more enjoyable to think that im the reason im getting this far and not my teammate. only right now im busy trying to level gear up and im having more trouble doing that than anything else because i cant use the catalysts on my weapons. i have plenty of weapons i would like to use but i dont want to use 6 7 8 formas per weapon to make a max level mod layout that fills half of its slots. formas and catalysts/reactors are meant to work together, eventually you have a surplus of formas and you will end up polarizing your warframe/weapon equivalently so you can max out your mods and can use all of them and make the warframe/weapon the pinnacle of your build. but you cant do it. you have to stay awake all night all day, watching and stalking the navigation panel looking for that next catalyst or reactor, and rarely will it show up. they also appear AT THE SAME TIME OF DAY. i tested this because i watched my navigation panel and checked other forum posts. for my timezone they appear at midnight. EVERY TIME. I HAVE TO STAY AWAKE ALL NIGHT OR WAKE UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT. for a standard gameplay feature to actually let me continue further and get stronger now.

     

    and no matter how far you get every person will eventually be overwhelmed as current mechanics work. that is not needed as an example. more enemies spawn, harder enemies spawn, in the infested specifically i see people struggling past level 60 because of that pesky group of ancients nobody can get at without scripted kills because the other infested work like bullet shields. (i still think ancients shouldn't be able to buff damage resistance on other ancients. effectively makes all your damage zero. even spamming atlas's landslide ability)

    Okay. I would like say that I disagree, to some extent, on everything you said. First being that you can accomplish everything in the game effectively without paying a cent. It is simply less convenient and/or slower. Aside from certain exclusive apparel items, you can acquire everything without even trading, provided you are in a position to do so or you plan on playing Warframe for a very long time. I, in fact, DO. And I am prepared to wait years to acquire all the aspects of Warframe.

    Second, the point of the game IS NOT an exorcise in breaking. That is only how some of us view it. 

    Third, yes, at some point, everyone CAN be overwhelmed. But if there are people having difficulty with level 60 enemies, it because they did not intend, prepare, or understand how to deal with the issue In a sense, they weren't really attempting to reach "Endgame", which to the people I represent, is far beyond level 60 enemies.

    That is something that needs to be understood. I am speaking in regards to those who like to play beyond the levels at whih the game is currently balanced at.

  15. 5 hours ago, TaylorsContraction said:

    While I don't mind bonus and special rewards for staying long,  I'm opposed to exclusive rewards.  Endurance runs simply come down to how long a person can stay online.  Those of us with jobs can't be online for 16 hours straight.  I don't think someone should be effectively rewarded with unique things just because they have more free time than others.

    And that decision is not one I'm trying to take command of. I don't believe the exclusive rewards should be of a valuable nature. More accessory based than anything. And to put something in fine terms: Yes, the amount of time you are permitted to spend online CAN and DOES limit you, but the rewards I'm suggesting wouldn't have a direct affect to the people receiving or not receiving them. And on a personal note, I barely have time to play more than a couple of hours every other day in my schedule, but because I enjoy doing endurance runs so much, I make time for on special occasion. 

    But yes, I can see there being a possible issue with exclusive rewards. I agree with you that it probably wouldn't be a desirable scenario. However, I would leave the end decision to those in charge. I will make note of your point on the initial discussion referral area.

     

  16. 18 hours ago, Nezha_Rose said:

    There was alot of confusion in this thread (read all the post) so I understand this: Endurance runners want to have those extra weapons available to them, so they can reach higher goals. For their gear that was designed to eat armor, shield and HP to be obliderated, they want more... or atleast keep what they have. I dig.

    However, whats the point of this right now? Rewards? Bragging rights? Or to test your limits?

    For let me tell you, you have more on your arsenal than you believe. The point of endurance is to test your limits, with the best gear and the best composition. However what if I told you that isnt the full definition? What if I told you that you can test your limits with just a sniper? How far can you with a Vulkar Wraith, with the best possible setup and solo? I dunno I made it pretty far with a Visican Riven and 6 forma, that baby is my pride and joy.

    Endurance isnt about your level with one set, but also all the sets and combinations. To test your limits but not as the best possible time, but the best possible efficiency with as much gear you can have. This community calls it "min/maxing", something I found myself really enjoying. And my god the rivens in this scenario made things much more interesting.

    tl;dr? We arent superman, we have limits... but not just one, we have many. And you are trully an endurance runner, you try and discover all of them... and break them. Theres your content, never lost yet never found.

    Nezha_Rose, your definition of Pseudo Endgame" is 100% accurate. And you bring up a valid point. What I am concerned about is the following.

    While it true that in nature, "Pseudo Endgame" is the stretching and testing of equipment, what happens when equipment becomes less stretchable, less testable? We lose options. We lose freedom, in a way. At the very least SOMETHING is lost. If all the game content were to be downsized and balanced around level 80, sure, the content could still be stretched. But the feeling of stretching it (especially after previously achieving much higher results) for me and others like me, would be lost. 

    18 hours ago, Nezha_Rose said:

    We arent superman, we have limits...

    Of course we have limits. If we didn't, there wouldn't be point to endurance running. I don't want limitless scaling of equipment. When you say "We aren't superman", you highlight that we don indeed have limitations in the game and that without said limitations, nothing would be the same and it probably wouldn't be as fun. MY issue, is the type of limitations that are placed on us. 

    If we were to be limited to stay within a certain parameter of levels, we would lose a large portion of our freedom to explore. 

    Yes, we could still explore. But only to a predetermined extent. The point is to ALLOW for "Pseudo Endgame". If our limitations are COMPLETELY determined, we lose our ability to define our own "Endgame".

  17. 5 hours ago, brokentool said:

    Very interesting discussion, I just want to say thanks to everyone who took the time to write all these well-argumented opinions (for my benefit). It turned out that today I finished work a bit early and this was a wonderful read while awaiting freedom.

    Now, on topic: I can support both sides here. However I strongly believe that they are not mutually exclusive. I do understand where the OP is coming from and I agree that endurance runs should not be actively discouraged. Recent implementations have shown that the devs share this viewpoint, at least somewhat: the Pacifism Defect and John Prodman are good examples; also the attention and response from DE towards that Defense record run a few people did some time before TWW dropped.. I think OP just mused on the fact that there are very few viable methods to achieve these long runs, and it shouldn't really be so. I also saw mentioned above, several times, that you need to cheese these runs and this is exactly where things could be improved - by adding more endurance-viable methods of play (mechanically) and better rewards as incentive.

    I also think that such endurance runs should not be (nor are they currently) a goal for everyone. Warframe is uniquely attractive to me because of the freedom of goals and methods to achieve them, thus, "endgame" content is not some shared dream that everyone strives towards. And this is fine and dandy. I do not understand why some hold the idea that this "endgame" will hurt everything else.

    In the end, I just want to see this game that I love improve in every possible direction, endgame and otherwise. And I believe it is possible.

    EVERYONE!!!! Seriously EVERYONE should observe this beautiful post. This is a wonderful example of a non-biased, objective analysis that is not only well thought out and researched, but is also accounting for multiple perspectives in the context that THERE IS A HALFWAY POINT.

    And to you, brokentool: Thank you so very much for providing your analysis. I highly respect this point of view and I'm glad that you can see the issue from such a broad perspective. I will be including your response in the description if I can. If you are uncomfortable with this, please notify me.

  18.  

    6 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:
    20 hours ago, Gildarts_bb said:

    I can see both sides of this but as DE has already stated the game is balanced around roughly lv 80 and that they will NOT balance specifically for infinite scaling I rather doubt they would put specific rewards in for a part of the game they don't design content around 

    *cough* John Prodman *cough*

    The issue is that, like it or not, there are people who enjoy reaching past the balance of level 80 content.

    I understand what DE is saying and I am not asking for that to change just yet.It would be great if they balanced a few items for our sake, but I understand that it is NOT the focus of the game. What I want is to prevent "Pseudo Endgame" from being removed and/or become invalid entirely. I what our perspective to be recognized in such a way that we are not left out and we do not lose what we enjoy. I'm not expecting an actual balancing to occur and nor am I asking for one. 

    All I want is to be able to enjoy experiencing what I consider to be the "fruit of my labor". 

     

  19. 8 hours ago, kuchn said:

    what you call endgame is sitting in a bubble/behind volt shields(a lot better by the way), having zenistar on the ground for nullifiers and spamming the same ability for x hours
    OR
    having naramon and melee with a BR/bodycount combo
    OR
    naramon and abuse gas+stealthmultiplier
    OR
    simply ivara :D

    am i wrong?<

    since there is no difference between lvl 200 and level 4k on how to beat the game..where is the skill that should be rewarded?
    do mot solo without naramon for 3 hours without the above mentioned mechanics..see how that goes :D

    And that is a factor of what I've already discussed. There is currently very little diversity in endgame gameplay. Therefore, stimulating the general participation and recognition of endgame playing will eventually allow for more options in endgame. Or at the very least, the prevention of downsizing the options we already have. And for the record, I'm not quite sure what the point is that you are trying to make. It seems as if you have some relative experience of doing endurance runs, yet you imply that it took no skill or effort to do so. Well let me ask you something. Was leveling up, collecting equipment/mods, and learning about the mechanics of the game nothing? THAT is also part of what led to the exploration of endgame. To me, MY "endgame" is the fruit of my labor, so to speak. I don't presume to know your story, but it sounds as if you either paid for a majority of your your experience (of which I did not), or you simply don't enjoy/understand "Pseudo Endgame" the way I, and others do. (Which is not a wrong or a problem). But we enjoy stretching limitations. That is all. 

    I have no problem with your opinion and analysis. It is perfectly valid and you have not used it in a negative way. But please respect that I enjoy it and don't use your opinion to indirectly damage the environment that others enjoy. 

    AND keep in mind that "Endgame" does not have a set definition. And yes, there is a difference between level 200 and 4000 enemies. In general, EVERYTHING becomes less effective against them and sitting behind a Volt shield and a Frost bubble with big guns will not cut it at a certain point because you won't be able to keep your damage high enough to consistently kill enemies (presuming you haven't accounted for that).

     

  20. 4 hours ago, (Xbox One)Slimm qp ReapeR said:

    Thank you!! As I've stated in an earlier comment here:

     

    Endgame is what the player makes it which is the beauty about this game. I think that's where the main source of the backlash comes from regarding this post because people think that OP is trying to make endurance runs the ultimate endgame of warframe when in actuality it's just trying suggest endurance play as another OPTION.

    No comments other than the following: Exactly.

  21. 4 minutes ago, Insane-Mana said:

    Dont take this personal, but i kinda feel why players like me and old veterans start losing interest in the game. 

    I once made a similar post about the sinoyd simulor and mirage. some time after it i got my hands on the gun and got myself a mirage. then i discovered that in order for it to be "OP" you need to slap a bunch of forma on both the weapon and the frame you also need mods that are not easy to come by or simply just cost plat. 1 way or the other investments must be made... 

    So why should a player who has invested so much time and effort in a weapon or frame or both not be able to enjoy the fruits of his or her labour?

    1 more personal example

    My Ember prime (480p i payed for the set) has 4 forma, at the time i didn't have primed flow or primed continuity so there's another 200p. Then i needed Firequake and Energy conversion. These mods i could get for free but needed to grind the syndicate missions, as this was at the start of me playing the game this also cost me forma and other stuff which you need to pay as offerings to the syndicate. So all in all this needed allot of time and effort grinding that out. I could continue talking about mods but i hope you get my point.

    Same go's for my 4 forma tonkor ( which actually still needs 1 or 2 forma ) same go's for my secondary's and melee's 

    So i dont think it fair to ask for nerfs like this when the simple solution is to just leave the match and start a new one.

    What you suggest is also a completely viable option. Although, can be inconvenient to some. I suggest reactant drops me modified to be more common. 

  22. As a general message to all, Ember's Ultimate, even when in combination with her second ability (which massively boosts fire damage), Ember's damage scales at a reasonable (and to me, underwhelming) rate, which I believe should not be diminished. If it were to nerfed as such, I would insist that the status chance of her world on fire be increased, and be given a chance for enemies within 3 metres to take exponential damage. 

  23. 15 minutes ago, (Xbox One)DRG JupiterIvan said:

    This can be said about a lot of frames. As well as missions. A friend and I tried to do a lith excavation. We just needed forma honestly. Some randoms popped in. These idiots kept activating the excavators and feeding them. And to top it off one of them was an ember. To be fair my friend was a SynSim Mirage, but he knows when best to be op during a fissure. We did a total of 6 runs. We only opened 3 frikken relics.

    I understand your troubles. But I think the best way to look at that specific issue is to modify the occurrence rates of void fissures, as Ember's ability is actually more underwhelming than you seem to understand. 

  24. 6 hours ago, Ultimate_Vault_Hunter said:

    What I am proposing is an Annual or Bi-Annual event to bring exclusive content to players. I know the hate of this subject, but I think a lot of it comes from the lack of exclusive content currently unavailable and the rampant buffing of non-exclusives leaving exclusives behind... Everyone knows I am talking about Excal Prime and how his stats compare to other Primes.

    The way I am proposing to solve this issue is by giving players a 'Badge of Honor' with an exclusive Frame variant to show how long they have been loyal to the game and also as content to look forward to when DE is in a creative crisis(of course through a tiered structure based on event participation). That being said, the only way exclusive content could work is if there were standardized tiers of Frames, Weapons, Companions, and Mods based on rarity.

    For example, everything in the game has a Stat modifier based on standard, uncommon, or rare. Not meaning that standard or uncommon items would necessarily be less useful, but each level gets a little more leeway to the base stats of what type of item it is. I am not saying that this is easy, but I do not believe that it would be impossible with proper planning and coordination with developers and community. With standardization, no frame, weapon, companion, or mod would ever be left behind as yesteryear's best gear and today's trash, fixes would have to incorporate standardization, and items that are to never have an alternate would automatically fall into the highest tier.

    Just a thought, there are a lot of buffs and nerfs that go around and make many alternates obsolete for  no reason other than the community wanting just a little bit more out of it.

    I actually think that the exclusive content idea is a perfectly reasonable idea, so long as it occurs annually or Bi-anually. Th only issue here is deciding the criteria that would allow the player WHAT content they would have access to. Perhaps a combination of hours, MR experience and profile stat evaluation. 

    There is, however a large issue with utility and weapon standardization. The process it would take to fully actualize this idea would essentially change the core mechanics of the game somewhat and would be a massive project. 

    However, it may be viable to select specific weapons (MR requirements as the criteria) and allow them to scale further. But the point is to prevent high tier content from being usable at too early a point in the game. This ouwld cause a lot of consumer bias issues.

    I, currently am working on something similar. Please take a look at the topic labeled Major Mechanic Ignored?!?!: "Endgame", Encouragement and discussion 

  25. 21 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

    I can see from some comments that the typical narrow minded view of "End-game" is still in full force for some.

    If you want to Raid then that's your end-game. If you want to do Sorties and farm, there you go. If you want to endurance run, it's there for you. There's no distinct end-game in Warframe and no other player has the right to tell another what "end-game" actually is. It's nothing more than what you decide to do with your time when progression is over.

    DE has officially recognized endurance runners as a form of play style and yet their effort to accommodate this play style is almost non-existent. They place all of their changes on a set level bracket (the same level bracket for 3 years now) and disregard the plentiful amount of Power Creep they give us which we would otherwise never need.

    They need to consider scaling when they make changes and add new content. This is what bothers me more than the rewards for doing those endurance runs.

     

    Xzorn. I am in utter and complete agreement with you on virtually every angle. I know of their recognition of "Pseudo Endgame" players. I simply want that recognition to be a little more intertwined within the game. The reason for this is because the existence of "Pseudo Endgame" has been recognized, it has NOT been properly accounted for in content change. Which I see you have mentioned quite bluntly.

    If in-game recognition were made (let's say, for example, by offering more rewards to those who participate in endurance runs), DE would be more inclined to apply content changes with endurance players in mind. 

    So yes, I would love to accomplish what you are describing. And in fact the rewards system I have devised is designed to do just that. The trick is, not pushing changes that are big enough to damage the game. If we make a change of this nature, it might be just enough for Warframe (and its community) to account a bit more for the infinite scaling.

    But we have to let the Warframe (and its community) community do it on its own. This more of an awareness and encouragement project than anything else. 

    Be sure to spread this idea to as many people as you can and suggest they do the same. 

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