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Everything posted by SortaRandom

  1. Would be nice if holding 4 instead of tapping instantly set Exalteds to "dedicated melee" mode.
  2. Y'all need to rely on the wiki less. The less talked-about mechanics in this game are often poorly tested, if even that. In this particular case, the Wiki correctly (albeit a bit unclearly) states that "Sprint speed" (i.e. sprint-exclusive) is a distinct stat from "speed" / "movement speed" (i.e. walking/aiming/sprinting). Sources of the former (e.g. Rush, Sprint Boost, and Amalgam Serration) will have no effect whatsoever on walking speed. Dispatch Overdrive, Arcane Vanguard helmet, and Kogake Prime (I think? Never tested) are all sources of "movement speed" that didn't come into my head at the time. On top of warframe base stats, of course.
  3. To my understanding, all of the Sprint Speed mods only affect sprint speed. The only way to increase your walking speed is getting a buff from an allied Volt/Wisp/etc. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong, though.) Thankfully, it becomes a non-issue if you play with Sprint as a toggle rather than a hold. Just turn it on at the start of each mission and never worry about walking speed again!
  4. lolwut??? No. Finishers are a fundamentally different type of attack than regular swings, and players need to be able to choose between them. I have played zero other games where players are unable to choose between a basic attack and a slow-but-strong attack. The fact that it took so long for Warframe to solve this problem is complete insanity. Stealth finishers and "non-stealth" finishers are identical in every way except for the conditions under which the prompt appears. And stealth finishers appear by default on any unalerted enemy if you're behind it; do you genuinely think this is more "chosen" than manually casting Dessicate on a dude? More importantly: the new system does not make any changes to the viability of finishers! It's literally just moving them from button A to button B. Nothing else has changed. If you really wanted to do a finisher but your target died too fast, you should probably ask yourself whether a finisher was necessary in that situation in the first place. "Seamlessly mow them down with finishers"? What game are you playing? Finishers are the slowest melee attacks in the game and affect a maximum of one target at a time; there is no "mowing". Also, if you're deadset on using Finishers for mowing down crowds... you can still do that just as fast as before the update. Literally just press X instead of E, my dude.
  5. You know exactly what he's referring to. Don't be that guy.
  6. EDIT: To clarify: - It took more than five years for them to tweak useless / outright-detrimental Melee 2.0 mods (April 2014) - Still waiting on improvements to many Damage 2.0 mods (November 2013) - Still waiting on improvements to (or removal of) Melee 1.0 wall attacks (???????? 20??), which are still largely untouched since DE has ignored them over two separate melee reworks I love DE to death, but unfortunately I'm expecting them to drop this project and move their attention to something else before even a third of the necessary improvements are made. It's pretty much their M.O. at this point.
  7. Finishers being moved to X means that they no longer get accidentally activated when doing basic combos. This doesn't slow down the pace of gameplay, this prevents the fast-paced gameplay from being broken up by unwanted snail-paced Finishers. There's nothing "slower" about the current (improved) system, except potentially the player's reaction time when they realise that E is no longer the correct button. Once you get used to it, this is no longer a problem. Also, splitting Finisher controls on the basis of "stealth" versus "not-stealth" makes no sense. The only distinction between the two is the circumstances under which the Finisher prompt appears; there is no mechanical difference between "stealth finisher" and "not-stealth finisher" in this game.
  8. They could've just fixed the interaction between Maiming Strike and Blood Rush and fix the fact that MS is so boring. There was no need to remove the only additive crit-chance mod that melees have. Like... Instead of being "+90% CC on slide attacks", they could've instead made it "+90% CC on slide attacks, slams, air attacks, heavy attacks, and wall attacks" instead. As in, an additive bonus that works on every melee attack except for basic combos. Now that MS is no longer additive, and Condition Overload has been absolutely crushed by the nerf hammer (i.e. pure-status builds are no longer viable), we have this super fun situation where any melee weapon with low base CC cannot be used for anything except pure-status builds, and are therefore not viable. Great for build variety! /s
  9. Amen. The current "gunfire-button-for-melee" toggle just isn't cutting it, since attempting a Hold/"Tactical" combo will just fire the gun instead. The "quick melee" and "dedicated melee" modes should have separate keybinds, just like the olden days.
  10. Cheers! I also just tested this myself ingame, and I can confirm that CO is scaling to at least 7 procs for me (as opposed to the 3 that the dev workshop stated). I haven't bothered testing with higher proc counts since that's a wee bit more difficult to do, but it really looks like CO doesn't have a status cap.
  11. Okay, this is a little bit off topic, but-- I've been seeing people saying that they've been enjoying the "gunfire-button-for-melee" option since the update. Is it really that great? Like, I've been trying it out, and it works nicely when in "pure melee" mode, but the default behaviour (i.e. quick-switching to melee from guns) still has the problem of being unable to use Hold combos, no? OT: We need some more flexible Melee keybinds for sure. Instead of having a "gunfire-button-for-melee" option, we should instead have separate keybinds for quick melee (E by default) and "melee-mode melee" (E by default, but bindable to M1).
  12. Oh, yikes, I hadn't noticed that. That's... a damn shame. Heavy melees are still quite a bit slower than other weapons of the same speed, right? They should definitely have higher base damage to make up for that. I hope their stances still have good multipliers...
  13. So, as most of us know by now, Condition Overload has changed from: "multiplies final damage by 1.6 per status proc" to "adds +120% base damage per status proc". (Yes, it's additive with Primed Pressure Point. And yes, this is an indirect but extremely harsh nerf to Chroma.) But does anyone happen to know what the cap on CO stacks is post-U26? Or whether there is a cap? The melee dev workshop clearly stated that CO stacks up to 3 times, but the U26 patch notes contain this lovely table: which suggests that CO can still stack upon itself for a larger number of procs. So... which one is it? I'm too tired test this out ingame right now, but if anyone is able to do the testing (or if anyone has already done it), could you post your findings here?
  14. As someone pointed out on the first page, Condition Overload now stacks ADDITIVELY WITH BASE DAMAGE (i.e. adds on top of Pressure Point rather than multiplying it). Regarding communication: I have mixed feelings. On one hand: y'all should've told us about this prior to the update. Your wording made it seem as though CO was still going to be multiplicative with other damage boosts, which I'm sure was deliberate. On the other hand: I kinda understand why you didn't tell us about this prior to the update. There would've been an insane amount of backlash considering that nobody had actually tried it out yet. Regarding ingame balance: Still mixed feelings. On one hand: CO builds are objectively much, much weaker than before. Pre-nerf CO was the only thing that made pure-status builds viable, but those are effectively no longer an option. Assuming you've only got Primed Pressure Point equipped and are hitting a target with 4 procs, your effective damage multiplier has gone from 17.4x (base * PPP * 1.64) to 7.45x (base * (PPP + 1.2*4)). That's a bat-crap crazy loss in damage. And if you're running a build that stacks base damage (e.g. rivens, Spoiled Strike, Chroma, etc), then this loss in damage only becomes even more extreme as CO is increasingly subject to diminishing returns. I mean, Chroma mains ought to be on suicide watch right now, yikes. Their melee damage just decreased by about an order of magnitude (again), and their frame doesn't exactly have much utility to make up for it. Ironically, crit builds (the meta for melee) are affected by this change the least, since they tend to have less base damage stacked up (i.e. CO can have more of an effect in comparison)! On the other hand: Pure-status builds got completely shat on, but so many weapons have had their base Crit+Status buffed that hybrid builds are easier to make than ever. Also, more importantly: Prior to the update, CO made some melee builds so powerful that there wasn't much reason to even think about using a gun. The gap between the two has dramatically decreased (which was obviously the intention of the nerf in the first place), and I mean this in a good way. It actually feels like there's a choice between melee and guns now... Pre-U26 meta builds like hybrid polearms are still powerful, but they no longer hopelessly outclass every ranged weapon. Overall... melee is more balanced now, but this came at the cost of build variety (with pure-Status builds being completely nonviable), and an indirect-but-harsh nerf to Chroma (with CO barely having any effect due to the extreme amounts of base damage). I think that CO should still be an overall damage multiplier, rather than a base damage boost. Tweak the numbers so that it's still balanced (e.g. "80% final damage per status, stacking up to 6 times" or something). The current formula makes pure-Status builds and Chroma unviable for melee, which is the opposite of the diversity that this update was striving towards.
  15. Amen. Discovering that they moved Finishers from E to X was an extremely cathartic moment for me.
  16. Oh, that's because you're not. The "12x" only multiplies the damage of heavy attacks-- your regular attacks have 1x damage the entire time. (The ~3x buffs to base damage across the board makes up for that.) Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds still scale from this multiplier, though. (Specifically, this multiplier minus 1, according to the new Blood Rush / Weeping Wounds buff icons.) Regarding the crits... I haven't tested this myself, but I have a strong suspicion that Blood Rush now applies after other crit boosts, rather than before. So additive bonuses like cats and Harrow will no longer be multiplied by BR. It's a huge loss in damage, but IMO it's a bit of a well-deserved one (and I'm honestly surprised that interaction lasted for as long as it did). Additive crit chance sources turned literally any melee weapon into a red-crit monsters when combined with BR, whereas now it seems to behave more in line with how guns do.
  17. "ALIGN MELEE ATTACKS TO CAMERA" SETTING: I've been trying to bring this to your (DE's) attention for a while now, but unfortunately this wasn't addressed in the update. I play with this option disabled (as is standard in any "monster-hunting" type of game, e.g. Dark Souls / Monster Hunter / Dauntless / Vindictus). This worked fine with Melee 2.0 since most weapons/stances didn't have directional combos. However, now that every stance has its own "Forward" / "Forward Technique" attacks, the new melee style unfortunately doesn't support this option very well (i.e. all "forward" combos only activate when holding W, but not A,S,D). Could you give the "align melee attacks to camera" option a very quick review, so that it's properly compatible with Melee 3.0? The only change necessary is to let A,S,D activate the "forward" combos in addition to W when "align melee attacks to camera" is disabled. EDIT: Some general melee feedback: Finishers have been moved to Contextual Use (X) instead of Melee (E). OH MY GOD HOLY CRAP ^ literally me right now THANK YOU DE, AND GOD BLESS YOUR SOULS MAY THE GROUND YOU WALK QUAKE AS YOU PASS Some feedback about stances themselves: Some "Neutral" combos restrict movement too much, and should be switched with the "Forward" combos. When players use Neutral combos, it's often because they want to strafe left/right/backwards while attacking. However, most Neutral combos lock the player's legs, while the Forward combos will more-often let players WASD freely during the animation (despite W needing to be held to activate them). Some examples: - Iron Phoenix (Longsword) - Carving Mantis (dual swords) Simply switching the "Neutral" and "Forward" combos around would make the stances feel much more responsive to the player's inputs. Many "Neutral" combos restrict leg movement, but they often shouldn't have to. I get locking the legs when the character is twirling/flipping/kicking/etc, but there are moves where the legs look like they should be freely controllable, yet the player cannot WASD during the animation. This is especially bad for "Neutral" combos, i.e. the combos where the player is most likely to want to WASD while attacking. The most egregious example I can think of: - Swirling Tiger (dual swords); first attack of "Neutral" combo. (The worst part is, you used to be able to WASD during this move in Melee 2.0!) (potentially difficult to implement, but) Add option to opt-out of certain combos? I know there are players who are going to love most of a stance except for a certain clunky combo that gets in the way. I think it'd be cool if players had stance-specific options to completely disable certain combos, or otherwise tweak the controls of that stance. Perhaps add customization options (saved locally for each individual stance) to the "Melee Combos" window? e.g. If someone loves Iron Phoenix but hates its Neutral Combo (as I do), then allow that combo to be disabled entirely (such that the Forward combo is activated instead). Here's a quick UI mockup: EDIT2: Some feedback about specific stances: Shimmering Blight (Polearms) is AMAZING. For those who haven't used it: It's missing a Forward combo and Tactical combo. Its Neutral combo allows full WASD movement, and both its Neutral and Forward Tactical combos have nice, wide hitboxes. It's simple. It's effective. It's hella fun. I am not being sarcastic when I ask that y'all please do not touch this stance further (aside from maybe a fix for the first Neutral swing stepping to the right for some reason-- same applies for Bleeding Willow). That being said... Bleeding Willow (Polearms) feels like a strict downgrade to Shimmering Blight. Its Neutral combo is identical to Shimmering Blight's... but its Forward-Tactical combo, when compared to Shimmering Blight's, - has roughly the same speed - leaps roughly the same distance - has the same number of forced bleed procs (i.e. one) - does only a single hit on the first swing (albeit with a somewhat higher multiplier that doesn't quite make up for it), versus Shimmering Blight's many hits - has a somewhat narrow hitbox on the first swing (versus Shimmering Blight's 360-degree helicopter twirl) - does not inflict Lifted status, whereas Shimmering Blight does with no other significant advantage to back it up. I think it'd be great if Bleeding Willow's Forward Tactical combo, instead of being "mobile swing + a few stationary swings", was simply the last 3 swings of its pre-U26 "hold E" combo-- that is, three mobile swings in a row. Less power, more mobility-- just like before!
  18. You are misunderstanding. While this is all subject to change with Melee 3.0, polearms tend to have moderate attacking speeds and no stance multipliers to speak of (with the exception of Twirling Spire, which has big damage at the cost of nonexistent mobility). Shorter-ranged weapons, on the other hand, tend to hit much more quickly and with better stance multipliers... and if DE's Skana preview is any indication, mobility should no longer be a problem for them either. Basically, polearms will always be great for sweeping up crowds, whereas daggers will deal more single-target DPS as long as DE handles the stance multipliers well. In the end, both will (ideally) be equally viable, with players picking a type based on preference.
  19. You're misunderstanding. Range mods are becoming additive. Meaning that Primed Reach will add about +4.0m (current state of the mod from [DE]Bear's post in the workshop thread) to ALL weapons. Polearm has 3m at base? Now it's 7m. Dagger has 0.001m at base (hypothetically)? Now it's 4.001m-- which is still shorter than a polearm (obviously), but surprisingly long enough to carve up crowds of enemies at once. For comparison, a standard polearm with Primed Reach reaches about 5.5m in the game's current state, with only Orthos/Guandao/Cassowar/Zaws reaching beyond that. Staves and Lesion barely reach 4.2m with PR in the current state, which is literally shorter than the worst-case-scenario for post-Melee-3.0 daggers (assuming that Primed Reach will indeed be +4.0m on release). Suddenly, daggers are looking pretty good, no?
  20. Did you happen to see the gifs of Skana gameplay in the Melee 3.0 workshop thread? Base range seems to have been buffed by a crapton (i.e. the hitbox extends well past the physical model of the weapon), and Primed Reach becoming additive means that most melees can have nearly Polearm-like range if you build them that way. The mobility is hella nice too. EDIT:
  21. This looks hella dope. Hot dang. The mobility from the Hold combo looks MUCH better than I was anticipating (i.e. much better than what Iron Staff has right now), and that base range looks satisfying to use! BUT: A couple of quick comments on certain topics: ALIGNING MELEE ATTACKS TO CAMERA DIRECTION: This wasn't mentioned at all in this thread. I play with this option disabled (as is standard in any "monster-hunting" type of game, e.g. Dark Souls / Monster Hunter / Dauntless / Vindictus), and it works fine since most weapons/stances don't have directional combos... but the current Iron Staff preview unfortunately doesn't support this style at all (i.e. all "forward" combos only activate when holding W, but not A,S,D). Are there plans to give the "align melee attacks to camera" option a quick review, so that it's properly compatible with Melee 3.0 (i.e. could y'all let A,S,D activate the "forward" combos in addition to W)? Or are players like myself kinda just SOL? BLOOD RUSH AND MAIMING STRIKE: I'm glad that the spin2win meta is being toned down, but I haven't seen any mention of the current multiplicative scaling between these two mods. Maiming Strike's +90% CC bonus is currently multiplied by Blood Rush, and that's why the MS+BR combo is so overpowered in the first place. If I'm interpreting this correctly and Maiming Strike is now multiplicative rather than additive (a la True Steel), then it sounds like Maiming Strike itself is being gutted, even though it's the MS+BR interaction that's the problem. Example: A fake melee weapon with 0% crit chance will currently have >535% crit chance at 3.0x combo if MS+BR are equipped. My solution: Let MS apply after BR, not before. This way, the same weapon will have a flat 90% crit chance, regardless of combo. Current plan: MS is multiplicative, so the same weapon has 0% crit chance, and MS is unusable on weapons with low base crit chance. <-- Not good. (I've been saying this repeatedly in numerous feedback threads for literally years, and I know I'm not the only one. Not seeing any mention of this here is a little bit disheartening, to say the least.)
  22. Me anticipating literally any Melee 3.0 information after more than a month of no devstreams:
  23. Side note, it also works with Exalted Blade regardless of what melee you have equipped.
  24. I'm VERY happy with the rotations being changed across game modes, but this particular mod... ... THIS PARTICULAR MOD... ... doesn't really inspire confidence for, well, Melee 3.0 in its entirety. In the game's current state, some of the WORST parts of the melee 2.0/2.9999999 system include the combo counter's insta-depletion (mandatory mod slot on nearly all weapons if you're not using Naramon) and charge attacks as a whole (hilariously slow and useless on anything besides glaives/gunblades/Zenistar). Adding mods centered around these mechanics, after all this time and all this feedback, feels like yall are just telling us that Melee 3.0 won't address the inherent problems of either mechanic. (I have similar feelings regarding blocking/damagereflection and Amalgam Javlok Magazine Warp, which was added in the jupiter remaster. The mechanic is hot garbage at base for all weapons, and adding a bandaid mod does nothing to address that.) Not to be a negative nancy in this thread full of amazing changes for Arbitrations, but... if mods like this are being added into the game this late into Melee 3.0's development, one can't help but be pessimistic about it IMO.
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