shut
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Posts posted by shut
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Fire rate would improve your raw DPS by a crapton.
Also, Amprex has excellent crit stats, so you may want to consider going for a Viral + HunterMunitions build. Feel free to make Viral with 6060 mods for that extra status chance, and be aware that swapping out Serration or HCal with a fire rate mod will dramatically improve the number of viral procs you get.
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Events have always had some mixture of grind and bugs, but at least they were playable. Scarlet Spear (especially the space-team missions) is definitely the first time that an event was released in such a fundamentally broken state.
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1 hour ago, lilwonktonk said:
The reload time is way too long proportional to the magazine size, making the gun no fun to use. For example, the supra vandal has a much longer reload, but it also has a 300 round magazine, making it a fair tradeoff. The 21 rounds the basmu has run out very quickly. After building it a bit it can be serviceable if you have argon scope, but if you don't have that then its just not worth the inconvenience.
The secondary just does no damage to anything. The crit chance is just too low. The difference between 2% and 7% here is vast, with the kuva nukor being able to get a decent crit chance of ~20% with just primed pistol gambit, not even counting hydraulic crosshairs. The basmu gets up to 5% before argon scope, and argon scope is rare and expensive. Even when it crits, the low base damage cripples it. The kuva nukor has 21 base damage (not accounting the elemental bonus from the lich) compared to the basmu's 12. Pistols also have hornet strike for a greater damage boost, leading to the kuva nukor being miles ahead in damage output. Having a base status of 50% instead of 30% helps the kuva nukor even more. While the weapons are somewhat similar, one is clearly worse.
It does have infinite ammo, which is nice. If the clip bottoms out, you're stuck in a slow reload, working like a traditional reload. If you don't bottom out you can actually keep shooting, as it regenerates like the shedu. The life steal comes out in 3 waves while youre reloading. The effect is nice, but not worth the hit to the weapon's usablilty.
(edit - 300, supra vandal has a magazine of 300.)
Interesting, thanks for testing out the weapon! I had assumed that it would just have a hella-fast reload like a kitgun with Pax Charge or something, but I'm surprised it has a traditional reload when emptied.
The base crit chance is definitely too low to mod for, but in the basmu's defense, any additive source of CC (e.g. Harrow, Adarza, Arcane Avenger) will still make great use of the crit multiplier.
Out of curiosity, how's the chaining range on this weapon? Is it the standard 5m like Amprex / Kuva Nukor, or is it smaller like the Gaze?
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Wondering this too. It's definitely not as simple as a damage cap; my Gaze kitgun was dealing much less damage than my Tombfinger despite having higher base DPS dealt in smaller hits. To make things more confusing, my Redeemer's charge shots were dealing the exact same damage per tick regardless of combo multiplier-- like, a 2.0x charge shot would produce identical numbers to a 12.0x charge shot.
It's reminding me a lot of Lephantis' damage-reduction mechanic. To my understanding, nobody's been able to pin down the exact calculation since release. For all we know, it could involve the "conclave rating" system that was supposedly scrapped many years ago (which is how Lephantis used to scale).
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It doesn't require an 8-player team. Your squad (4 people) will just encounter points in the mission where you need to wait for someone else in the Flotilla to activate the Op-link (e.g. if you're playing space-team, then you need to wait for a ground-team squad to activate their Op-links as well). There are so many squads doing these missions that the waiting times are virtually negligible, so don't worry about it and just treat it like a regular mission.
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The space-team mode requires a railjack to move from point A to point B, but once you get to the sentient ship it's basically just a glorified Mobile Defense mission, i.e. killing is not required and it can be cheesed with a single Limbo. Be aware that the MD part goes faster based on how many people in your squad activate their Op-links; i.e. a 4-man squad will complete it up to 4x faster than a perfect solo.
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The ground-team mode is easy to solo and also has a mobile-defense component, but it's quite a bit slower point-wise.
EDIT: I've only done ground-team mode solo, but I heard that it also goes faster with a squad. Can someone confirm?
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The space-team mode requires a railjack to move from point A to point B, but once you get to the sentient ship it's basically just a glorified Mobile Defense mission, i.e. killing is not required and it can be cheesed with a single Limbo. Be aware that the MD part goes faster based on how many people in your squad activate their Op-links; i.e. a 4-man squad will complete it up to 4x faster than a perfect solo.
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Here's what the new Basmu looks like:
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The Phage/Phantasma got their Status chances nerfed in U27.2.0 because DE mistakenly believes that their multi-beams can proc multiple times.
For those who aren't aware, multi-beam weapons do not produce more procs than single-beam weapons. Instead of dealing more instances of damage when multiple beams touch the enemy, the beams will instead combine into a single, larger instance of damage. See this thread for details, and this thread for details + video.Enter: the Basmu. It mechanically behaves like the Convectrix, Amprex, and Larkspur had a baby, except with none of Convectrix's downsides.
The Basmu is a multi-beam weapon like the Convectrix, Phantasma, and Phage, EXCEPT:- it has way better Status Chance than both the Phantasma and Phage
- it has Nukor's hilariously high crit damage, except higher
- it also chains like the Amprex
- it also auto-aims like the Larkspur cause lol why not
The Phantasma/Phage were never exactly god-tier weapons, and the unnecessary nerf they received was based on a misunderstanding of their mechanics. The Basmu having better Status Chance than both has thrown their subpar performance into even sharper relief.
---- tl;dr ----
Multi-beam weapons do not proc more with Multishot. The Phage/Phantasma nerf was unjustified and should be reverted, especially now that a monster like Basmu is in the game.
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16 hours ago, Robolaser said:
I've read here and on reddit heated discussions about wether the Phantasma beams can each proc status individually and simultaneously, like a shotgun would, or not, like a beam weapon would instead. So i've recorded a short video of a quick test with the firerate lowered to 1 (instead of it's base 12) using a riven and critical deceleration, for better clarity:
As you can see, the beams definitely don't proc separate statuses individually. The phantasma does indeed act like a regular beam weapon. All beams are merged into one, proccing 1 status effect at a time. Thus, it should not have received the same treatment as regular shotguns, and should have, at the very least, kept it's 37% status chances.
Thank you for showing this in a video! Lowering it to 1 fire rate REALLY highlights how multishot is doing diddly squat for beam weapon procs. I'm definitely showing this to the next person I argue with who dares insist that 5 beams = 5 times the procs 😤
The fact that DE nerfed Phage/Phantasma's SC without even testing either weapon's mechanics is a travesty. Especially now that the Basmu is a thing, which (according to its stats and description ingame) is a multi-beam weapon that has better SC while also having chaining mechanics.
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Shame to see it go, but at the same time 100% expected. Lockdown was hilariously broken if you were using a school whose void dash didn't ragdoll.
It's kinda weird, though, that they're nerfing its CC on top of removing its damage. Like, pick one or the other, DE. If Lockdown now does no damage and has negligible CC, then players might as well keep that slot empty for all the good it'll do...
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This has never been the case; Cold just slows down all animations.
So if we take an Electric proc, for example, Cold will not affect the ticks / damage in any way. But, it will extend the duration of the elec proc's "stun" animation by simply making it take longer to complete. (This used to work particularly nicely with Blast's knockdown animation, before DE decided to effectively remove Blast procs from the game for some reason.)
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24 minutes ago, Kainosh said:
Shouldnt you ask DE to let you disable certain stance combos? I mean...that will let you enjoy more weapons....and you will not have to fuc with my suggestion here at all! Win-win!
I have. That's the sad part.
UI mockup from a while back, added to "Melee Combos" menu:
I've also requested other customization options as well, like the options to:
- activate moving combos with ASD as well as W if "align attacks to camera" is disabled
- swap stance-specific controls (e.g. swapping the neutral combo and W combo in Iron Phoenix, because who the hell thought it was a good idea to give neutral combo more forward momentum than the forward combo)
Stuff like this, right there on the first page of the Melee 3.0 feedback megathread. Of course, nothing came of any of this.
I've been posting occasional feedback over the past ~6 years with almost none of my suggestions ever being implemented, so at this point I'm pretty used to DE not considering anything I have to say. It's still frustrating, though 😩
26 minutes ago, Kainosh said:Also, there is another wae:
You keep your SB and BW......And i get a merged version as a NEW stance! Also makes everyone happy.
I would 100% be down with that!
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2 hours ago, Kainosh said:
I kinda wanted it like this:
Slam leap on a W+ Block + E. Gap closer with a slam
Helicopter on W+E. Gap closer with multiple slashes. Also works as forward motion combo. Less distance than Slam leap.
Introducing literally anything to W+E is what I'm against. Playing with "align attacks to camera" disabled virtually necessitates that W+E is unbound, so merging SB+BW in this way would essentially remove Polearms from our already-tiny list of playable stance options.
It's not even restricted to players like myself, either-- being able to WASD freely using the default camera-lock is still a huge part of the appeal of both stances.SB and BW are already functional and viable as is. Merging the stances as you would describe would simply ruin the whole thing for many current SB/BW users. And to the benefit of people who... probably aren't even using these stances in the first place?
Absolutely not worth it. You already have a variety of options in the other >90% of stances. We don't.2 hours ago, Kainosh said:You play MHW?
I've only played ~20 hours or so. I realize that it probably wasn't the best example for this situation because of how slow/methodical something like rotating your character is in that game, but you get the idea-- not being locked to camera direction is important. Ever more so when the game is as fast-paced as Warframe.
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12 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:
If they're slight variations of each other and also internally have no variation, can we at least have one of them changed to have internal variation and get all four moves? = o
I'd rather both of them got suitable M2 combos. It would address the "too-simple" issue on both stances without introducing any downsides for current fans, since M2+E can simply be avoided if the player dislikes it (unlike W+E).
SB and BW have similar roles, but are still subtly different enough that players have a real choice between the two (e.g. SB has wider hitboxes on its gap-closer, whereas BW has a much longer+taller hitbox at the cost of being a bit narrower). Simply "completing" one of the stances without touching the other would effectively remove this choice for keyboard-aiming players like myself, which is a big no-no.
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As someone who's been using SB and BW Polearms almost exclusively since Melee 3.0: I'm against this.
Both stances' W+M2 combos are very mobile, meaning that if the stances were merged, the third combo would either have to go into:
- M2+E (which is unintuitive, since M2+E combos are typically stationary), or
- W+E (which completely prevents the default combo from being used while moving forward).
On top of this, the absence of W+E combo makes SB and BW two of the very, VERY few stances that are properly compatible with having the "align attacks to camera" option disabled (which is practically mandatory for those of us that played Vindictus / Monster Hunter / etc before joining Warframe). Of these ~five stances, SB and BW are arguably the only ones that aren't crap.
Right now, attacking with W+E, A+E, S+E, or D+E (or W+A+E, S+D+E, etc) performs the exact same action in different directions-- but giving W+E a brand-new command would break this entirely. No thank you.I've always seen Bleeding Willow and Shimmering Blight as being two slight variations of the exact same role. The simplicity is a large part of their appeal. Merging the stances would likely break a lot of things and cause more harm than good.
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If you don't mind putting the time into it, I'd suggest learning about the game's damage mechanics by just browsing the wiki at your own pace. Once you have a general idea of the mechanics that come up frequently (e.g. how modded weapon damage is calculated, how certain elements interaction with armor, armor-mitigation methods, armor-ignoring methods, headcrit bonuses, melee stealth bonuses, etc), it'll become easier to just make a build on your own, since you know what you want better than anyone. Being able to handpick weapons/builds that synergize with the rest of your loadout is a very nice skill to have in this game.
If you want to know more about how a specific weapon functions ingame (not just what its stats are), I find that Leyzar's videos are always nice for this. His videos always showcase the unmodded mechanics of the weapon before getting into the actual builds, and the fact that his weapon videos all follow the exact same structure (intro -> mechanics -> budget build -> advanced/endgame builds) makes it very easy to just skip to the part that you're interested in. Which is HELLA nice, considering that many other youtubers often just talk over 5-10mins of gameplay footage despite the viewer only needing like ~30sec worth of information.
For building tools, I'd recommend sticking with overframe over warframe-builder, if only because overframe is updated much more frequently and provides interesting information in the build UI (e.g. total endo cost of the build). Not to mention that warframe-builder still hasn't added support for zaws/kitguns/arcanes, which I think is kinda laughable at this point.
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19 minutes ago, DroopingPuppy said:
Yes, for me Fire weapon for melee is essential for run Excalibur and Valkyr, and it was also essential for me on sword alone mode - at least before the disaster.
Ah, that explains it then. I used to enjoy M1 for melee in Sword Alone mode as well, but Melee 3.0 basically destroyed that with how poorly implemented its "M1-for-melee" option is.
DE should definitely update this option (or create a modified copy of this option) where "M1-for-melee" applies to only Sword Alone mode, so that players can have this option back without completely breaking our new version of quick melee. Bonus points if they also add an option to cast melee ults in Sword Alone mode by default.Until then, I'd suggest disabling this option and just treating Excal/Valkyr's ults like any other melee weapon. It'll be a bit tough with Exalted Blade and Hysteria in particular, since the former needs aiming and the latter has invincibility that will rapidly toggle on/off, but at least you'll be able to quick-melee with everything else worry-free.
14 minutes ago, CaptainMinty said:And there it is. The root of the complaint. I didn't think I'd see a thread complaining about how they messed up with keybinds with the transition, a full year after the update. It has been a full year since this change. A year. I'm sorry but I'm getting flashbacks to 2019 when these threads were popping up every half hour. Ah good times, good times.
Mate quick melee is gone in favor of a better melee system.This "better melee system" could be improved even further if our current implementation of M1-for-melee wasn't total ass. A lot of feedback was given about this since Melee 2.5 hit, but alas, DE chose to shift 100% of their attention to the next big thing before implementing any of that feedback.
The feedback isn't even difficult to implement either. Just let 'M1-for-melee' apply only to sword-alone mode, and boom, that solves like 90% of the problem right off the bat.Don't get me wrong, Melee 3.0 is almost objectively better than Melee 2.0 if you used default keybinds (E for both quick-melee and "sword alone" mode). But for the many players who used altered keybinds (e.g. E for quick-melee and M1 for "sword alone"), the current system's support for this is so hilariously bad that we've had to downgrade to default controls instead.
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11 minutes ago, DroopingPuppy said:
It always forcing me to abandon ranged weapon and it leads me to throw away the melee weapon or bust.
??? Just shoot the enemy?
Tapping Fire or Aim will bring the gun back out with zero delay. The fact that you're holding a melee weapon does not affect this. Literally the entire concept of Melee 3.0 was to merge quick-melee and sword alone together, so that players have the advantages of both methods at all times with no compromise (aside from manual block and M1-for-melee).The only things I can think of that would be affecting this are:
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if you have the "Use 'Fire Weapon' for Melee" option enabled, in which case, my condolences-- that thing is incredibly poorly designed
(although I doubt this is the case, considering that you're a fan of quick melee and not sword-alone mode) - if you use alt-fire on your guns exclusively, in which case, yeah having to aim first every time can get a bit annoying
- if you're literally switching to sword-alone mode by holding Switch Weapon every single time you use melee, in which case you're doing it very wrong
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if you have the "Use 'Fire Weapon' for Melee" option enabled, in which case, my condolences-- that thing is incredibly poorly designed
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I don't see what the problem is? Nothing's forcing you to "abandon" your melee weapon. And aside from a few obnoxious bugs, literally everything that we loved about quick melee can be done more effectively with the new melee system.
Just press E, dude.
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6 hours ago, Justin_Case001 said:
My thoughts on this will be brief. Please restore the Blast proc to its former glory. Reduced accuracy is kinda lame. Please make it knock down enemies like before. That is all. Thank you.
Amen.
Blast before the patch was nice because even if it did interfere with headshots, it was at least optional on 99% of weapons. The only time players would do unwanted blast procs were if they needed it to meet some Status Chance threshold, but now that Rifle Aptitude and equivalents are buffed, this wouldn't even be an issue anymore.
But sadly, the new Blast procs are useless at best and mildly detrimental at worst (since the enemy can miss so badly that you can dodge their attack and still get hit purely by accident). It has no damage incentive and no CC incentive.
I have no idea what DE was thinking when they came up with this new version of Blast, especially when it has damage monsters like Corrosive/Viral and a CC monster like Radiation to compete with. -
3 hours ago, nslay said:
You both wanted to see Phage in action. I will admit, it does apply statuses a lot slower than I imagined/remembered. I compared it to Kuva Kohm which I use as a reference shotgun, and then later to Vaykor Hek and Phage is markedly slower at applying statuses than both of them. I see the stacks on the enemy title bar and some of them suddenly appear in multiples which leads me to believe that the multiple beams might be doing something. The unconverged beams definitely apply statuses to multiple enemies. But yes, Phage is slower than both Kuva Kohm and Vaykor Hek at killing some beefy enemies.
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So compared to Vaykor Hek or Kuva Kohm, Phage is definitely a bit weaker! Now I didn't play too much with Phage builds, but this Corrosive/Viral/Heat build seemed to do the best against Exo Gokstad Officers (my personal benchmark enemy... it's a high bar!).
I played the Phage part of your video in slow motion, and yeah, it looks to behave as I described earlier. i.e. It's only doing one tick at a time no matter how many beams are touching.
I didn't watch through the whole thing in incredible detail, but if you're suddenly getting two procs on an enemy, that's probably because of the 12.0 fire rate making the procs look like they happened at the same time. And even though it's kinda hard to count the exact number of ticks in that video, it's definitely closer to 12 ticks per second than the expected ~170 ticks per second if each beam were ticking independently.I'm only really paying attention to the mechanics rather than the overall damage and kill speed of the weapon.
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3 hours ago, nslay said:
Now, what did you mean by beams "hit once"? Because the Phage still seems to proc status per beam as you hold the trigger. I mean, I was getting multiple procs at a time... Status is relatively very low on a hybrid build, so that must be the multiple beams doing that? I can make a video when I get home if you'd like!
If your phage is actually behaving this way, then please do!
The behaviour you're describing for Phage/Phantasma sounds nothing like what I've seen from my own testing; I've only been getting one tick (i.e. one chance at a Status proc) per fire rate no matter how many beams are touching, and no matter how much Multishot I slap on.
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4 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:
They're all weirdos and/or have never played/are not aware of Khora.
What on earth do spiders look like where you're from
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Phantasma, Phage, and other Beam Shotguns don't benefit from Multishot in terms of Status proc rate. Nerfing them was unnecessary.
Both Phantasma (5 multishot, 12.0 firerate) and Phage (7 multishot, 12.0 firerate), along with every other "beam shotgun", will only tick at their listed fire rate no matter how many of their beams touch the enemy. If multiple beams touch, it's simply the damage per tick that goes up instead-- the tick rate (and thus, the maximum proc rate) is exactly the same as a 1-beam weapon of the same fire rate.
e.g.:
- A Synapse (1 multishot, 12.0 firerate) can proc up to 12.0 times per second.
- A Phantasma with unrealistically overpowered multishot mods (99999999 multishot, 12.0 firerate) can proc up to 12.0 times per second.
- A Boar Prime with unrealistically overpowered multishot mods (99999999 multishot, 4.67 firerate) can proc up to 466,999,995.3 times per second.
^ Goofy example, but you see my point. Beam shotguns behave like regular beam weapons in terms of Multishot affecting procs. The Phantasma and Phage got nerfed in this update, when they shouldn't have been touched at all.
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Bumping, since it's Monday and DE is back at work. Hopefully one of them sees this.
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So, we're all aware of the Shotgun nerf. The entire premise of the Shotgun nerf is that they can land a lot of procs with every shot, and this could be overpowered according to DE.
But let me talk a bit about Beam Shotguns. When I say "beam shotguns", I refer to beam weapons that fire multiple beams at once (not necessarily in the "shotgun" category), such as:- Phantasma (5 beams, 12.0 fire rate)
- Phage (7 beams, 12.0 fire rate)
- Convectrix (2 beams, 12.0 fire rate)
- Quanta (2 beams, 12.0 fire rate)
Now, if you consider a regular weapon (Braton, Lato, Tigris Prime, Kuva Bramma), you'll notice that adding Multishot = more hits per trigger pull = more procs per trigger pull.
Fun fact about beam shotguns, for those who are not aware:
Beam shotguns will only tick once, no matter how many beams are touching an enemy. The total damage of the beams is simply added together in that tick.
i.e. Multishot will NEVER increase the number of procs on Beam weapons, including those with innate multishot.This means that the Phantasma, Phage, Convectrix, and Quanta will only proc up to 12 times per second, regardless of the amount of Multishot they have, and regardless of how many beams hit. That's right, a Phantasma with 100% Status Chance and 99999 multishot will proc the same number of times as a Convectrix with 100% Status Chance and 2 multishot.
They fundamentally do not behave the same way hitscan/projectile Shotguns do, and therefore should not be nerfed along with Shotguns.So, my request: Please revert the Status Chance nerf on Phantasma and Phage. They do not score more Status procs from Multishot, and therefore the nerf is unnecessary. (I think Convectrix and Quanta were buffed in this patch, so idk about those guys.)
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Basmu (beam) consuming ammo 2x faster
in General
Posted
To my understanding, all beam weapons in WF are meant to consume 0.5 ammo per tick. So a weapon with 12.0 fire rate will eat 6 ammo per second.
This isn't applying to Basmu, which has 12.0 fire rate and consumes 12.0 ammo per second (leading to complaints from numerous youtubers that this firing mode eats ammo too quickly).
Similarly, the Basmu is incompatible with beam-specific mods like Sinister Reach and Combustion Beam. Hopefully these issues can see a fix!