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    DE make a status change megathread

    in Players helping Players

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

    Looks like this was what OP was looking for though, so...

    1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

    Yeah, and it involves the changes to status.

    The point is that the Status changes are a rather fundamental change to the entire game as a whole, and shouldn't be lumped in together with the shotgun changes (which are a whole other can of worms). There is a LOT to talk about in both topics, and each deserves a megathread of its own.

     

    Meanwhile, sentinels no longer sharing mods got a megathread. Just seems silly at this point.

    Idea to have useful proc of Impact, Puncture, and Blast

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    3 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

    You want a proc to be useful not counter-productive. If you aim for the head you don't want the enemy get staggered instead and dodge the next few shots involuntarily. Same reason people have been avoiding blast damage. If DE want to reward skill shot our shots probably should not work against us. Blast proc is a good change.

    Disagree with that last part-- Blast causing knockdowns is bad for players aiming, but this was never a problem because Blast has always been optional on 99% of weapons. Now more so than ever, with the buffs to Rifle Aptitude and equivalents.
    Being able to mod a weapon into a knockdown machine was fun as hell, and I would very much like to have that option back.

     

    That being said, I 100% agree that Impact shouldn't do anything of the sort. Largely because Impact is unavoidable.
    I've been basically spamming this everywhere for the past week, but: Impact should cause a "stun" (i.e. dizzy animation) that opens enemies up to easy headshots.

    Stun.PNG

    Anyone notice new patch change with Phantasma

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by SortaRandom

    2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

    ??

    The status chance is the same, with or without multishot mods.

    For Phantasma the new system should be a massive buff, going from 12 guaranteed statuses per second to 14x12 possible statuses per second at 24% chance each.

     

    2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

    Not really sure how that is possible unless your luck is horrible.

    Old Phantasma capped out at one status per fire rate. With a fire rate of 12 it would cap at 12 statuses. At 100% status that would be 12 guaranteed statuses.

    New phantasma with the status in the build posted sits at 70 possible statuses per second with the baseline 5 beams, all with a 24% chance each. With the multishot stats from the build posted you are suddenly looking at 168 possible statuses per second with a 24% chance each. That is an avarage of 42 statuses per second compared to the old guaranteed 12.

    There may be a bug though where the game treats it as a beam weapon still, where the 4 extra baseline beams aswell as any others added through multishot are just treated as multishot on normal beam weapons i.e not being able to proc statuses.

    I feel like there's been some confusion here.

    The Phantasma's beam weapon mechanics have NOT changed at all. At base, it's always had 5 beams (14 with Hell's Chamber) and 12.00 fire rate. But, no matter how many beams are touching an enemy, it will only tick once (and therefore proc up to once), with the damage from each beam simply being added up. 
    This is still the case as of U27.2.1, and can be easily tested in the Simulacrum. Multishot does not affect Phantasma's proc rate.

     

    So, this is a summary of the unmodded Phantasma's changes:

    • BEFORE: 37% SC per tick, times 12 ticks per second. (This is assuming all five beams hit. A single beam would only have 8.83% SC at base. Of course, this means that Phantasma gets a sharp improvement in performance once it hits 100% Status.)
    • AFTER: 7.4% SC per tick, times 12 ticks per second. (This is if any number of beams hit. One beam, five beams, doesn't matter-- it produces a single tick of damage, with 7.4% SC.)

      For comparison, the Furis has 12.0% SC per tick, times 10 ticks per second.
      For comparison, the Viper has 11.0% SC per tick, times 14.38 ticks per second.
      For comparison, the Kraken has 13.0% SC per tick, times 4.42 ticks per second (during burst). 
      All three of these weapons also have better Crit stats than the Phantasma. Let that sink in.

     

    ~~ tl;dr ~~

    Phantasma has been destroyed.
    If DE corrects its Status Chance calculation and gives it the intended 22.2% SC per tick (because they literally just forgot to triple the number), it will be much better than it is now... but still barely half as good as before.
    And considering that it has always been capped at 1 tick per "fire rate" (unlike other shotguns), it really shouldn't have been nerfed at all.

    • Like 2

    Anyone notice new patch change with Phantasma

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    They forgot to triple the SC per beam.

    Phantasma had 37% SC before the update, with 5 beams. Divide this by 5 (Facepalm... that's not how probability works, DE) and you get 7.4% per beam, which is Phantasma's current new base.
    It's SUPPOSED to get triple that amount, but... oversight, I guess. Let's see if they actually fix it.

    • Like 4

    Warframe Revised: >100% Status Chance / Shotgun Megathread

    in Weapons

    Posted

    DE, what the HELL did you do to the Phantasma?!?

    5wwTXfu.jpg?1

    7.4% Status Chance?
    7.4% Status Chance????

     

    This weapon originally had 37% Status Chance on its 5-tendril beam. Unmodded, this amounts to about 8.83% SC per tendril under the old system. Triple this amount, as promised in the dev workshop and the patch notes, is 26.4% Status Chance per tendril.

     

    But the Phantasma did not get 26.4% SC per tendril.
    It didn't even get 8.83% SC per tendril, which would've been the worst-case-scenario if you literally forgot to triple the status chance.
    It got 7.4% SC per tendril.
    7.4% SC per tendril.

    7.4% SC per tendril.

     

    I'm miffed.

    • Like 7

    Mainline, Impact damage! Why?

    in Weapons

    Posted

    I've been basically spamming this everywhere since last week, but... Impact should cause a "stun", not a knockdown or ragdoll or whatever.

    Stun.PNG

    Let Impact procs cause the enemy to stand still in a "dizzy" animation with their arms down for about 2 seconds. Easy headshots that way.
    Bonus points if there's a damage incentive for melee (e.g. open to Stealth damage bonuses, and/or Finishers), so that Impact isn't useless on melee weapons.

    Warframe Revised: Status Chance Mod Buff Megathread

    in Weapons

    Posted

    Just now, Deinocamo said:

    I was blind and didn't see the dedicated mega for the SC change. Sorry.

    Oh, no, I wasn't talking about your post at all. I was confused because the change in this thread (buffs for a few mediocre mods) is apparently enough to warrant a dedicated megathread, but the complete revamp of nearly every status effect instead gets lumped into the "Shotgun Status Calculation" thread as if the two topics are remotely related.

    Seems weird to me. The status effect revamp has a fundamental impact on how this entire game is played; it seems silly to me that DE didn't bother making a separate thread for it.

    Where is 2020's First Mainline? Coming March 5th to PC!

    in PSAs and Announcements

    Posted · Edited by SortaRandom

    7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

    Part 2: This Workshop has been updated as of just now with some Impact Status information that makes the original post incorrect - Ragdoll is gone!

    Thank you very much for this! Hopefully Impact becomes something that's beneficial for all weapon types, including melees.

     

    EDIT: Here's an absolutely shameless plug to my own suggestion for Impact procs, by the way, in case you guys at DE haven't noticed it yet.

    Hopefully you consider replacing Impact procs with some sort of "stun" that lets the enemy keep its head still. I think this will allow Impact to be useful while keeping true to its theme.

    EDIT2:

    ... Waaaaaaaiiiit... the dev workshop thread still says that Impact is going to cause a knockdown. Which is exactly the same issue as the ragdoll, only smaller-scale.

    Oh no.

    • Like 1

    Impact shouldn't cause AoE knockdown

    in General

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Thrymm said:

    Blast is a relatively unpopular damage type, primarily because it does exactly this.

    It won't after the mainline. They're changing Blast to an AoE accuracy debuff.

    ... yeah.

     

    29 minutes ago, FireSegment said:

    can you elaborate on how that "stun" would be different from the electric prod, or the stagger animation, or how Inaros's 1st skill open up enemy for finisher (or excal blind)  we already have? i'm kinda against using the same effect on different prod in ways that make them indistinguishable (which DE's double impact knockdown also cover, as it's the same as a blast prod)

    and if u version of impact prod can do the same as inaros 1st then it's too imba imo

    Ideally, it would be very similar to Electric procs in terms of keeping enemies' heads still, but without the AoE damage on every proc. The main idea in terms of gunplay is to just get the enemy to hold its head still (as opposed to the fire-proc or "blind" animation, which has the enemy flailing wildly and covering its face with its arms).

    Melee is a different story, though, since most of them can't reliably score headshots. The "+stealth damage on melee" is largely so that Impact isn't completely useless on melee weapons (as it is now). It's not as overpowered as it sounds, since most melee weapons have very high crit multipliers that dominate the stealth damage bonuses anyways, and the rest of melee weapons (i.e. pure-status builds, especially those with high Impact weighting) are in dire need of a buff in the first place.

     

    My suggestion does overlap with Inaros/Excal/Baruuk's roles a bit, but that's kinda like saying that Electric procs overlap with Volt's role a bit. If Inaros/Excal/Baruuk/etc players love stealth damage but don't want their Blinding/Sleeping abilities to feel redundant, then they can simply forgo Impact builds in favour of something that actually stacks with their Blinding abilities. No harm done.

    Loadouts: more complicated that first thought

    in Players helping Players

    Posted · Edited by SortaRandom

    1 hour ago, (PS4)northern_rebal said:

    I finally got to the point to start really working loadouts. It's more complicated than I thought.

    So each weapon can have 3 configs, maybe one for each faction. So do I need 3 loadouts for each frame, so I have one for each faction? But then I can have 3 configs for each frame, so does that mean I need 9 loadouts (3frames configs x3weapon configs)

    While I have multiple frames, I usually switch between hildryn, saryn, chroma, wukong and zephyr... 5x3x3 15 loadouts, plus at least one more for sorties where I have to have a particular setup. Plus one for the odd frame/weapon mission I want to run.

    I can't believe any of this is right. So what do you do?

    Idk about everyone else, but my solution to this is to literally use one build for every mission that I play (aside from Eidolons and Profit-Taker). Faction-specific builds for my main weapon? Too lazy to deal with that noise; every faction gets pure Slash and that's that.

    It's been working incredibly well, honestly.

     

    EDIT:

    21 minutes ago, (NSW)Neick1 said:

    Just get a speedrun frame & strong weapons for 90% of all your missions and change when you do Eidolons/Profit Taker/Index/XP Farming/Things that actually require specific things. You don't really need to change much just cuz of a faction and don't need to make a loadout for every frame you use. The speedrun frame is ofc to finish missions fast and strong weapons to do other objectives quick. I just do most of the stuff with Wukong and have loadouts for the things I mentioned. I can still do sorties/Arbys/Railjack/Fissures and any node on the star chart with Wukong without changing to any other loadout.

    ^ Literally this.

    Who needs specialized frames? Just get yourself a decent all-rounder, and use a throwaway weapon slot to make up for their weaknesses (e.g. Wukong because he's fun, and Phantasma for braindead-easy CC and armor strip). Congrats, you can now solo anything that isn't a "specialized" mission (e.g. Eidolons, profit taker, stealth affinity farms).

    Shotgun Status needed a fix, but this wasn't it.

    in Weapons

    Posted · Edited by SortaRandom

    9 hours ago, XaoGarrent said:

    Shotguns are the only weapon class in the game where having more multishot is an active detriment to the weapon's proc chance. Paired with the traditional slow firing nature of shotguns and under performing critical mods, this change will move them to a position where they excel at nothing, with a few exceptions.

    People can try and talk their way around this all they want, but the objective reality is that shotgun status being divided between pellets has always been bad game design. DE is doubling down on a broken mechanic that shouldn't have existed in the first place, and the game's balance will ultimately be worse in the long run because of it.

    I am calling this now: This is going to become one of those things that DE refuses to fix for years at a time, while players become more and more fed up with it, like self damage and armor scaling.

    Not to be an ass or anything, but that's not how the math works at all.

    - Adding more multishot does NOT affect a weapon's per-pellet Status chance. It simply fires more pellets. Each individual pellet will behave exactly the same as it did before.
    - Status chance is not divided between pellets. People assume this because it works as an approximation in the low-SC regime (e.g. a 10% SC shotgun with 10 pellets has roughly 1% SC per pellet), but the math rapidly falls apart as you approach 100% SC (e.g. a 100% SC shotgun with 3 pellets does NOT have 33.3% SC per pellet).

     

    This is a really common misconception, and it always frustrates me whenever I see someone confidently touting it as fact. Even WF Youtubers have been doing this for years despite not having the faintest understanding of the math. (Looking at you, Mogamu.)

    How about instead of making energy arcanes usless, just make energy regen

    in General

    Posted

    45 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

    I say drop Energy entirely, go to an entirely cooldown-based ability system and shift some more common abilities to Exalted Weapons, instead.

    DE tried that a long time ago, but decided against it since it slowed down gameplay by a crapton. Players would apparently find themselves waiting for a cooldown to end before engaging the next group of enemies.

    Personally, I like the concept of the current default system (where you effectively gain energy through combat), but I hate how RNG-heavy it is. A few years ago, I ran into a case where my Excalibur had maxed Efficiency, positive Duration, and maxed Primed Flow, and my energy literally went from full to zero during Exalted Blade because not a single orb dropped over the course of several minutes. (I basically put down Exalted Blade and never used toggle abilities from that day forward because of how upsetting this event was.)

     

    There needs to be some sort of "safety net" mechanic, in case players kill X number of enemies without getting an orb drop. Players should also be reliably rewarded for contributing to the objective, instead of through combat/looting alone-- e.g. an energy orb dropped for completing a Spy vault, or completing a Mobile Defense stage, or completing a Defense wave, would be nice. These would make the current system feel a lot better without needing to add a "universal energy regen" or anything (which would cause players to do the boring "waiting for the cooldown to end" thing, especially in the early game).

    • Like 3

    Shotgun Status needed a fix, but this wasn't it.

    in Weapons

    Posted · Edited by SortaRandom

    1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

    Honestly, the math to shotguns is so confusing, I say in this case it’s better to see how it actually works for ourselves before discussing it further.

    We already know how it works. DE's explanation of the math was just convoluted and weird, which is unfortunately standard for their math explanations.
    I'll try and summarize it a bit better, if it helps:

     

    CURRENT STATE
    The shotgun "status chance" that you see in the Arsenal window (modded or not) is simply the chance of at least one proc if all pellets hit. This number is the "base" SC that gets modified by Status mods. You can get almost 100% SC by simply firing a lot of pellets at once, even if each pellet has a small status chance.
    However, to get exactly 100% SC, the only way for this to be mathematically possible is if every pellet is guaranteed to proc. This is where that magical 100% threshold comes from.
     

    DE'S SUGGESTION
    All weapons (including shotguns) now display proc chance per pellet as their "status chance". Shotguns' new base SC is determined by their unmodded "per-pellet" SC in the current state-- which is very, very low.
    ex. Tigris Prime will have 13% SC. This number may seem crappy at first glance. That's because it actually is crappy.
     

    OP'S SUGGESTION
    All weapons (including shotguns) now display proc chance per pellet as their "status chance". Shotguns' new base SC is determined by their unmodded "at-least-one" SC in the current state.
    ex. Tigris Prime will have 30% SC. This behaves identically at 100% SC as it does now (if we ignore the new double-procs that DE is also adding). The difference is that 99% SC or below is no longer garbage.

    • Like 1

    Impact shouldn't cause AoE knockdown

    in General

    Posted · Edited by SortaRandom

    First off: I absolutely LOVE nearly everything about DE's "Review, Revise, Refresh" plans. These are major steps in improving the long-term health of the game, and I'm glad they're finally happening! There were only a few gripes that I had with DE's improvements.
    This:

    10 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

    In addition to being able to achieve two Status Effects on a single shot, we are also adding new meaning if you get a duplicate Status Effect on an enemy. For example, AOE knockdown would occur on a second Impact Status on an enemy already inflicted with one!

    was one of them.

     

    ~~~~~~~~~~ THE PROBLEM ~~~~~~~~~~
    A lot of you might remember this from a while back, but DE once planned to change Impact procs to ragdoll enemies. Players hated this idea, since:
    - it could push enemies to safety
    - it would make weak points nearly impossible to repeatedly hit
    - it's unavoidable on most weapons, since the majority of guns/melees have at least a bit of Impact in them

    DE's current plan for Impact double-procs (shown above) is a less-extreme version of this same problem. Enemies falling over all the time means that their heads become hard to hit.
    Blast procs already have this problem too, but you can at least opt out of Blast simply by not equipping it. Most weapons don't exactly have that option for Impact.

     

    ~~~~~~~~~ MY SUGGESTION ~~~~~~~~~
    Impact double-procs now "stun" the enemy for 2 seconds. Stunned enemies stand still and have a dizzy appearance, leaving their head exposed and easy to hit. Stunned enemies will receive Stealth Bonus Damage from melee weapons, and will be open to Finishers.
    (Below: Example "stunned" pose from Team Fortress 2. Dizzy stars optional.)

    Stun.PNG

    What this does:
    - Gives players a reason to use Impact on ranged weapons, as headshots become drastically easier to land
    - Gives players a reason to use Impact on melee weapons, as it now provides a damage incentive (especially for pure-Status builds, as Stealth Bonus Damage does not stack strongly with crits)
    - Still provides a bit of CC if the player does not care about melee or headshots

     

    That is all.

    • Like 6

    Primed rush when, DE?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    17 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

    I don't understand why people are attracted by sprint speed while 99% of warframe speed come from parkour.

    You have no reason to suit a sprint speed mod when you can use parkour or bullet jump mods such as Endurence Drift or Lightning Dash, unless you already buff it from an ability (Volt or Gauss) and need something that stack multiplicatively. But even there, you will have overall more control and better movement capabilities by using bullet jump / parkour rather than sprint.
    I heard people saying this speed is great for moving in open worlds but for this task, archwings and void dash perform a lot better so I just don't understand.

    Melee.

    A lot of combos have free movement enabled, so you can freely sprint forward (or in any direction, if "align attacks to camera" is disabled) while attacking. It's not a gamechanger, but it's surprisingly comfortable to be able to chase down enemies while using your strongest combos, instead of having to weave in a gap-closer every time you want to move five feet.

    • Like 2

    Ivara request for eliminate movement restriction.

    in Warframes

    Posted · Edited by SortaRandom

    35 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

    If Ivara can sprint and bullet jump at full speed, she will be the best frame in any content that requires survivability. Go invisible forever. Bye.

    There has to be draw backs for near unlimited invisibility.

    Basically every other invisible frame in the game already has unlimited invisibility. Ash and Loki recently got the ability to recast risk-free (since invisible frames now remain untargetable for ~0.5s after invis ends), and Octavia has been able to do this since her release. All of this while being able to use Zenurik.

    I do 100% agree that there should be drawbacks for unlimited invisibility, though, so I'm not sure if buffing Prowl's mobility is the best way of bringing it in line with the other invis abilities. Rather, the others should be toned down-- enemies should be able to shoot you during those 0.5 seconds if they're already looking in your direction, for example.

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