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Posts posted by Gene_Freak

  1. I'm still doing a deep dive into the different weapons and stances, but so far this has been the most significant improvement to gameplay since Movement 2.0. Probably the biggest change has been to the variety of viable mod configurations - some of mine are centered around building combo for boosting mods and never letting it drop, like how many were before, but now I've also built some centered around pumping and dumping combo, and others that just rely on starting combo for spamming heavy attacks. Most of my problems have been technical, like some mods not working right and others only working if you're host. My initial thoughts and concerns regarding the current system:

    -I'm not entirely sure how Glaives work alongside heavy attacks. The throw is on the heavy key, but it doesn't seem to either dump the combo counter or benefit from the multiplier / heavy mods. I'm totally ready to accept that this could just be me not understanding the weapon's altered stances, though.

    -Heavy attack wind-ups are far too slow on the whole. I really only use them when I've modded specifically for them via either Amalgam Organ Shatter or Killing Blow, otherwise they're just too clumsy to reliably make use of, even while standing in the middle of a group that isn't getting vaporized by your teammates.

    -Lifting isn't a significant mechanic. It's main use seems to be to keep heavier targets teed up for follow-ups if they should survive a heavy attack or heavy slam. In practice, it's basically just another status effect - which is fine, but not something I would go out of my way to mod for or even really think about while playing.

    -Gunblades stances feel kind of awkward. I don't know what could be done about that aside from an entirely new, different stance, but in general they feel kind of stilted and janky.

    Thank you, DE, for finally getting this update through. Hopefully I'll have more detailed feedback once I've put a few dozen more hours into the new system.

    • Like 2

  2. I'm having an issue where my rivens that have additional starting combo don't apply unless I'm the host. I've been able to reproduce it pretty consistently.

    Most recent example: I've got a Sibear riven that gives me 40.8 starting combo. Entering an ESO mission as a client, my melee combo counter shows no combo and using melee adds to it as normal, starting at one. Once the initial host left between rounds and the role migrated to me, my combo counter immediately perked up to 3x / 40.

  3. The Skana shown in the stream had a damage of 120, unmodded. Currently it's 35 on the live server. That's nearly a 3.5x boost to base damage. If those numbers hold for the rest of the arsenal, with a few maybe getting more love than others (I want the Pangolin Sword to be usable so badly), then I'm not too concerned about losing the combo counter damage bonus.

  4. The actual impact of these changes is going to depend so much on not only the final numbers for the altered mods and mechanics but the as-of-yet-unseen total overhaul to the weapons themselves (and if the primary and secondary overhauls were anything to go by, expect a full shuffling of the meta deck) that it's impossible to say one way or another if these changes will be positive or not. The most encouraging thing, though, is the willingness to make big changes to core systems.

    Just please, support these changes once they've been released. If certain things don't work out or there's problems with implementations, we cannot have another situation where we have to wait another seven months for them to be acknowledged and resolved.

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  5. Regarding the Immolation overheat mechanic: I agree that the instant total drain is too severe - why not have the overheat for her 2 be something comparable to the current WoF? If your heat reaches maximum you start draining energy like a sieve while fires break out around you, increasing in intensity and drain the longer you're overheating. It would fulfill the want of something that jeopardizes your energy while providing area damage on overheat, but in a way that's more manageable in a busy fight and with more exploitable synergies for the player to consider.

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  6. I've been trying to find a solution to this, something that would solve the biggest languishing problems with the current melee iteration and evolve the system into something more substantial while also requiring the least amount of man-hours to implement. This is where I'm at.


    First, the combo counter should be on the screen next to the ammo counter regardless of what's currently in-hand. If you're trying to break down the barriers between gunplay and melee, this is absolutely vital.

    Next, re-implement quick melee using the proposed combo system demonstrated with Wukong's Iron Staff and shown in several Devstreams - with attacks executed based on movement and gap-closers on an aim>melee combo. While this is close to what you've already shown intentions to implement, the most important part is that these attacks are on quick melee. The current system for weapon switching is responsible for several flow-breaking problems that would require more fixes to make work than is worth it. If you want us to have those cool "Devil May Cry" strikes on the ready at all times, this would be the way to do it that wouldn't be disruptive to the current game mechanics.

    Now the meat: holding the switch weapon key should equip melee like it used to in 2.0, but while before this was called sword alone, now we're calling it channeling. While channeling, your melee, fire, alt fire and aim keys are now your melee, charge attack, gap-closer and block keys (with players able to redefine these controls, of course). Channeling doesn't provide additional damage by default anymore but, while previously the damage bonus was component to the combo counter and was modified by mods, now the bonus damage is dictated strictly by "Channeling Damage" bonus mods and is applied as a total damage multiplier (as opposed to being additive with Pressure Point, rivens etc). And while previously channeling cost the player 5 energy per strike, it now grants the player 5 energy per kill. Mods and focus powers that affect "Channeling Efficiency" grant bonus energy based on their percent, and mods that penalize energy reduce the bonus until it reaches zero (without going negative and costing the player energy per kill).

    Very few mods would require any alterations. Focused Defense, True Punishment and Quickening should have their efficiency penalties converted to ~60-80% bonuses (as the other effects of the mods are so anemic) and Life Strike should have its "Life Steal" value at a fixed amount (20%?) while its penalty is reduced with each level (80-60-40-20?) to make it worth leveling. Otherwise, the other mods (even rivens!) already line up with my proposed alterations - you wouldn't even need to change the phrasing. Exalted melee weapons would count as channeling when active, changing their mod dynamic and opening up some interesting possibilities. As for the "one handed melee, one handed gun" systems that have been partially demonstrated, this could be implemented by having your quick melee count as channeling while still giving you normal use of your sidearm. The choice of modding for channeling becomes considerably more meaningful with these changes.

    What I'm proposing would require no new content, no new systems and no significant changes to what you've already demonstrated. At the same time, this fixes the most crippling problems currently affecting melee combat, provides a new means of active energy gain that's readily accessible to new players, adds much more variety to the melee modding process, and satisfies both the want of immediate access to flashy combos alongside gunplay and the want of a dedicated melee mode with precise controls and a unique power dynamic.

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  7. It's just another example of how the execution of everything in 2.9 is so clearly ramshackle and sloppy. The fact that you start gliding uncontrollably when you get shot while jumping says everything about how little thought or effort was actually put into these changes, and the fact that it's still that way half a year later and not just a funny anecdote about an obvious oversight that was corrected after release says everything about how little thought or effort we should expect to see from here on out.

    Instead of rewriting any of the melee backend, they just removed a few commands and wired others together with no regard for the consequences. That's it, no forethought, no actual game design. The targeted slam is the only actual new functionality that was added, it's also the first thing they ever showed regarding Melee 3.0 nearly fifteen months ago.

    The reason there's so many issues with autoblock isn't because the concept of passive damage reduction with melee equipped is faulty or because so many people just love holding right click, but because several functions of different mods and weapons (and even basic game functions like gliding with no zoom) are bound to block and not one moment of effort was expended to make them remain functional. Melee and gear interactions are annoying for the same reasons - they didn't get rid of "sword alone" like they said, they made it the only choice in a way that doesn't play nice with most equipped items. People brought up almost every issue that's been said in this thread before 2.9's release, but DE at this point are openly not listening to our feedback (see: the augment patch) so it's not surprising that those portents fell on deaf ears.

    Last stream Steve said that they were only "cracking the surface" on melee changes, and I'd believe it - I sincerely don't think that there's any active work going on for melee on any regular basis. It's why they bounce or ignore questions on the subject, why they're vague when they have to say something, why not a single employee will even acknowledge any of the issues that have been endlessly restated here over the last half year. Core gameplay improvements are and will always be a non-priority so long as expansions and pretty baubles bring in more fast cash. It's like a city building amphitheaters and theme parks to chase tourist dollars, meanwhile the streets turn to the potholes and the water system rots. I've let several coupons go by that I might not have, but I don't feel comfortable giving this company my money right now.

    Nothing would make me happier than being wrong. If the next devstream shows a comprehensive overview of what's being worked on to correct the current issues and make improvements to the "ninja" part of their "space ninja" game, I'll be hooting and hollering louder than anyone. But I know in my heart that, during the usual concept art and deluxe skin white noise, Reb will broach the subject (bless her for always trying) and the rest of the room will exchange awkward, silent glances before stammering a bit and quickly changing the subject. 

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  8. 1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

    Hysterical Assault - Hysteria Augment - Valkyr

    • Let invulnerability linger for half a second when aiming to prevent getting downed immediately in high-damage areas 

    So nobody listened to the feedback to the dev workshop at all.

    This is genuinely insulting, not just to me but to everyone that's made thoughtful contributions to both the augment and the melee feedback threads. But, at least we have confirmation in black and white that our feedback is neither valued nor considered.

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  9. 2 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

    Personally i'd 100% hate if she was brought back to her previous state, while an augment (even tho 0.5s is a bit too little) is imo the preferred solution so you can choose what you wanna have.

    How about, they can change a Valkyr's default Hysteria back to having a functional aimglide, and then the augment can allow you to use a gun within Hysteria with a brief invincibility period? That way the majority of Valkyr players get the consistent function of their frame back, and if anyone wants to use a gun in tandem with Hysteria for maximum CO efficiency or other synergies they can mod specifically for that.

    • Like 2

  10. They didn't make any progress towards fixing the problems at first because they'd just released the changes, then it was because Tennocon was coming up, and currently it's because they're still recovering from Tennocon. Soon they'll be neglecting melee because they're working hard to get a new expansion out, then because they just released a new expansion and need to support it, and eventually because they're on holiday break. 

    Looking forward to seeing "Melee 2.9.9" on next year's whiteboard :tired:

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  11. This thread never getting a civility warning is really just more evidence that nobody at DE is reading it :tongue:

    Sheldon recently made (the closest thing in five months we've seen to) a statement about Melee 3.0 at the very end of a largely unrelated interview about DE's development practices:

    Finally, how's progress on the melee refresh, and what are the next steps for that?

    Sheldon Carter: It's going really well, the things that's we've done so far we're really happy with - we kind of hit a road block with the last couple of miles of it, and I think that has more to do with how much we turned all of our focus to Empyrean and TennoCon. I think once we come back from that, and once we figure out a couple of really key elements of how some of the other weapons are going to work... it's close. Sorry for the vagueness, it's one of those ones where each try in the last while we've said no to. So it's just going to require the guys working on it to go back to the drawing board one more time, but I guess we're halfway through the 3.0, we're 2.9!

    • Satisfied 2

  12. 28 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:


    • Reduced Melee FX light intensity

    "There's been some negative feedback about the new melee system, a lot of players don't like the loss of quick melee's mobility or equipped melee's manual blocking."

    "Has there been any positive feedback?" 

    "Well, several people have complimented the new weapon effects we implem--"

    *Pumpkinhead bursts out of the closet and begins devouring reams of FX data*

    "Damn this curse! I should have never run over Lance Henriksen's son with that dirtbike!"

    • Haha 2

  13. Steve posted this on Twitter earlier today, demoing finisher cutscenes


    This makes finishers even slower than they already are, which is remarkable considering most everyone builds their finisher daggers around speed specifically to avoid the long animations. How have two and a half months straight of "make melee combat smoother, faster and more fluid" feedback resulted in "slow things down more and take more control away from the player"?

    I genuinely don't think anyone's reading this. Maybe it's our fault for posting our feedback in the official feedback thread, maybe we should be posting it exclusively on Twitter so someone might actually see it.

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  14. Fair enough, I guess I get to wait another week to once again plead for someone to care enough about melee to have two consecutive sentences to string together about its development, and to once again be disappointed when the topic is broached and quickly jettisoned, usually with some mumbles about the melee people not being there and a vague promise for more information later. Sincere thanks for always trying, anyways, Rebb!

    I have niche issues in this game. "The Euphona Prime doesn't spin on alt fire anymore" is a niche of mine, "the Nyx absorb invulnerability ends while she's still aggro-boosted and locked down" is another, but I never would've guessed that "the total overhaul of one third of the weapons in the game - the first class of weapon to be obtained by new players, to become substantially powerful in the early game, to become infinitely scalable in the late game - as well as their modified handlings and behaviors" would be treated as niche. Like, there were some complaints about the optional, forma restricted, purely cosmetic dual energy colors not applying to frames in the ideal way for some users, and y'all responded faster than the fire department 😛

    Maybe with this next update out of the way, the team will have the capacity to make the melee changes a dedicated priority 😊 (fun trivia: I could feasibly attach this postscript to any post I've made in the last literal year


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  15. Can we please have a comment on the feedback to Melee Phase 1? Not comments on anything new being planned for the future, but the feedback to what has already been released. It's been two months of testing since the update, the official feedback thread has become a daily loop of the same problems being endlessly restated by different people, and after nearly forty pages there has been no acknowledgement or any real changes as a result. Things are bad for us and they're not getting any better, and the felt apathy towards these serious, game-inhibiting issues is palpable.

    Just show us some sign that someone is paying attention to these problems, please, that one person is reading the feedback you yourselves requested. The worst thing we can hear is another "I dunno" response like last month - all that does is validate our worst fears: that we are being ignored.

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