Sunder
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Posts posted by Sunder
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On 2019-12-16 at 12:43 AM, Kaian-a-coel said:
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On 2019-12-16 at 5:39 AM, Uthael said:-Snip-
A solution then would be separating obtaining the Kuva weapon from the Lich, no? I understand those people who want to rush through it. They feel as though it's a new task given by DE and they want to accomplish it for whatever reason.
- Personal pride
- Bragging rights
- Worried about having something "un-finished" on their plate
But at the same time you have people who are purely in this for the gameplay experience. Who just want to have fun. And of course, the players who want both.To have fun and a challenge, and want to feel rewarded for overcoming it. I know DE said they're leaving the mechanics of the Lich system as-is, (which is why I refuse to touch it) but Scott claims they're going to re-visit some aspects of it come the new year. I can only hope they don't just alter some number values and call it a day. The very system in which we interact with the Liches feels....rushed, unpolished, and stripped. Whether that's true or not, DE has been getting plenty of feedback. If they simply ignore all the issues people keep talking about in-game, on the forums, on reddit, and elsewhere? How can we trust they're not just going to do the same thing over and over so long as money is made?
After seeing the work that went into Railjack and Empyrean? I understand the amount of work DE had on their plate. Specially with dessert on its way (New War). But they still should communicate with us openly and let us know what's going on. My faith in the direction Warframe development is taking has made me weary. I no longer feel as rooted in the game as I once did. I hate that I say it but it kinda feels like I'm just waiting for something to push me to the point where I finally give up on the game and uninstall.
Can only hope some positive changes are on the way.
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7 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:
The idea is to entertain ups for 1 to 3 months.
If this update was intended to entertain us for 1-3 months then I don't know what to say cause it failed me within the 1st week.
Sure I like the new melee changes but I'd still be doing the same thing over and over even if they didn't release that portion. Log in, do sortie, maybe a few Nightwave challenges, log out. Sometimes I'll hang around and chat. Other than that I don't got much else to do. I was on the Hype train for Liches and Empyrean and such, but after seeing how this turned out? I got off the train at the next station. I'll just watch where it goes now. Decide afterwards if Empyrean is worth any sort of excitement.
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16 hours ago, IIDMOII said:
They forgot to add an actual nemesis.
It's just fluff content for a weapon. There's no actual nemesis'ing happening.
The core fundamental principal of the content was completely lost on another shallow RNG grind.
What's the point of a nemesis if you kill them within a day and forget they even existed? That's just a regular enemy.
It's like a slightly more involved mediocre boss fight. Like if the Sergeant required more steps to simply murder like we normally do.
7 hours ago, Corvenir said:-snip-
All the work against the current system for repeat weapons is definitely not rewarding. Nor does it feel it.
I understand there's a grind to it all but if the gameplay aspect isn't even fun? Then people are DEFINITELY not going to want to endure it.
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22 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:
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I'd happily take it in small doses if it was actually fun.
And I guess I'm considered a veteran as the Kuva weapons are the only things I'm missing in-game and have been playing from the get-go. Even so I'll forego them till this isn't such a mess.
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7 minutes ago, (XB1)KamikaZSquirrel said:
It's not they're above criticism, it's certain criticism is unwarranted... This game has a lot of flaws but from what I read people are annoyed because Lich changes aren't being made further because the one major update promised since August is taking all their time... looks amazing and as I have tried programming and development of software I know it's not as easy as made out to be. So instead of being amazed or even positive it's been the opposite over a system that in the same stream straight up said it wasn't meant to even be there yet...
I'm mostly saying that rather than continue being hung up on it and think they only pick and choose what to pay attention to we should be praising what they did show and that all that effort and time has gone into delivering on a promise made last year??
It just seems ungrateful and as most posts have at least 2-5 posts about how money hungry they are it just doesn't feel right to not defend it... I don't defend the game saying it's perfect but I can say it's better than nearly EVERYTHING in today's standards for a 0 cost to consumer experience 😃 and that's with it's flaws..
Things might come across as ungrateful now and then but in others eyes it's more-so a type of "tough love".
I absolutely adore this game. I love it. I loved it since the beginning playing the same few variations of maps over and over again. I loved it enough to buy into the Founders stuff cause I did and still do, want this game to succeed. I talk about it any chance I get when someone brings up videogames. My stories of the characters introduced, how they developed, about our little civil war with the Gradivus Dilemma. All while keeping hush on the insane reveal and emotional rollercoaster that was, "The Second Dream".
And it's because I love the story and gameplay and community so much that when an update like this comes out, that just feels so....unfinished and stripped? I can't help but feel bothered. Sure I sometimes forget that I'm in love with a creation of a team and feel like I'm in love with the games universe, but that just attests to DE's prowess at world building and pulling me in to their game.
So when something like this is released with all these new weapons and enemies and dialogue and interactions that just is not fun to me? Well I've gotta talk about it. I've got to at least make an effort to find out WHY things are the way they are. How other people feel about it. Get their ideas and bounce them off my own and see how the Dev's react. I created this thread cause I want to draw attention to the lack of polish on the "Old Blood" update. I want to get DE's attention and get Warframe and all its entirety back to being FUN.
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3 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:
Well said.
I would like to add: a 1 in 336 chance of me killing the lich means there's a 0.2% chance of guessing correctly, and a 99.8% chance of me dying. Why would I go for that, when I could just finish the mission and try later when my chance of guessing correctly is 33.3% instead?
And those odds still aren't very appealing.There's just Too much RNG:
- Running level 20+ missions to get a Kuva Larva
- The weapon your Lich spawns with
- The % elemental bonus said weapon has
- Whether or not they have an Ephemera
- Farming Kuva Siphons in hopes of a relic
- Running fissures and hoping the relic has a requiem mod
- Hoping it's the RIGHT requiem mod
- How many thralls spawn on a node
- How soon your Lich will spawn in-mission if their anger towards you isn't maxed
- Hoping it's YOUR Lich that spawns
- The order of the Requiem
- The order the Requiem is revealed in
We have to go through all this and the only way to find out the order is to what? Commit suicide and test it. Failure is a negative reinforcement and now suddenly we're expected to just throw ourselves at these enemies in hopes that we guessed right. Which as you stated, chances are NOT good. And for those trying to brute force it? They sometimes find the tedious results that the final murmur to be revealed is the first one in the sequence. Meaning they end up trying every bloody method before getting it right. For many this is not an enjoyable experience. Even worse is for the completionists who want 1 of everything and end up going crazy/burning themselves out cause RNG just isn't blessing them this day.
There's so much just simply out of our control with no way to influence it, that we're just playing a gambling system over and over with gameplay tacked on.
It's like a loot-box given form. And that form is repetitive gameplay that kills you over and over due to RNG.
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3 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:
The problem isn't that we die. The problem is that it's a pass/fail mechanic that no amount of player skill, experience, or gear can account for. Take a lucky guess. Best odds is 1 in 3.
There are 336 permutations of the Requiem mods on your Parazon, so most players are just going to refuse to kill their lich until they at least know exactly which 3 are used, and figure out the order after that.
It doesn't help that we get practically NOTHING for failing the code word, nor anything for ranking up our lich.
And the issue some players see with this is, "Well it's only 1 death. What's the big deal? Just keep playing"
The issue with that is I don't play games to go headfirst into my death and fail. I play games to have fun, be triumphant and overcome challenges and get that sense of satisfaction. And it seems I'm not alone with that. If I do fail? I want it to be my fault. I know it's a cliche at this point but look at Dark Souls. I played through all 3 of those and as hard as some encounters were? I always knew WHY I died. So that when I learned from my mistakes and overcame that challenge? It felt damn good.
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5 minutes ago, Melanholic7 said:
Huge post, decent research. Im realy grateful for ur work, ts. Cant add much after post and all those comments.
Cheers big ears
4 minutes ago, Emolition said:To me dying to the lich is nothing its 1 push of the button to get back and keep going. It won't fail the mission unless some how your lich spawn 4 times in same mission. Reading some post make it seem like ppl got so big egos from never dying in the game "to easy" that now they have to use revives the perfect survival is gone.
As I've mentioned. I have no problem dying....when it's my fault. Warframe has given us this role of being insanely powerful. We face impossible odds and kill armies. Missions that are 150 against 1. Some people get attached to that role and aspect of the game. Even when we're given ridiculous alerts like an hour of lvl 999 infested, or a mission with nothing but groups of high-ish level manics. We undertake those and play through the challenge. Why? Cause it's fun. Why else would we play?
But to be given a challenge then told, "You guess wrong and you die. No you can't combat it. No you can't overcome it. We don't care about your time logged, your experience, your preparation, or what friends you bring to help you out. You're dead because I said so." is just....backwards. It's not fun for a lot of people. Players have been conditioned for ages to not like failing. It's what makes games with hard difficulties feel so rewarding when you finally do beat it. With this system that feeling of being rewarded for overcoming something difficult is just gone.
When a Lich is overcome and finally defeated it's more so, "Finally I guessed right..." instead of, "I finally did it!"
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2 minutes ago, peterc3 said:
Make sure nothing can be backed up by any actual data and refuse to believe people might actually like it. If it is so bad, there's no reason to warn off people from trying it.
You don't actually know your position is the majority position and you don't like that fact.
I want Warframe to grow and expand. I love this game.
But if newer players go through all the trials and missions and get to this, see it for what it is, get frustrated and leave? That's not good for the game as a whole. As such all I can do is warn people off from it. At the very least if they try it they won't have the same expectations I did when I went into this. "Lessen the blow" so to speak. Far as, "You don't actually know your position is the majority position"? It's true. I don't factually know that. But I also don't see those who supposedly enjoy the system in its current state making threads and constructing feedback for why it should stay the same and remain as-is. I'm basing this off my own experience with the community, the forums, and reddit.
So your mileage may vary.
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5 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:
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A, "Serious breakdown of communication" is an understatement when you have a community team as big and as involved as the one working at DE.
Not to mention the Dev's visit the forums and reddit occasionally and see what the community is talking about. They definitely knew and still know we don't like it.
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1 minute ago, FoxyKabam said:
I was so grossed out by what Steve said watching the steam I didn't really register Scott trying to save the day, sorta.
still have no faith in liches or railjack or anything else on its way after the stream mind you, but seeing the whole conversation in text reels some of those feelings that back.
Make no mistake, he mentioned "changes to the system" after Steve said, "No plans to change them killing you vs you killing them". Also after the fact Steve said he wants to keep this suicide-roulette cause it's, "interesting and unique". They know we don't like it. But they don't want to change it for some reason. We need the issue properly addressed and not swept under the rug by talking about other aspects people have issue with. Till then I'd keep those feelings of being grossed out alive and well.
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1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:
Yeah pretty much. Because they’ve absolutely ignored every suggestion to reduce the RNG and grind in favor of adding things that “lessen the impact” of getting a Kuva weapon you don’t want.
Which if you recall....DE used to spend multiple Devstreams saying, "We want to reduce the grind."
They wanted to make our efforts feel validated and rewarded. What happened?
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This is an exact transcript of the discussion on Devsteam #134
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- Reb: Alright! So for Liches we have a lot of people that have the old blood update that think the flavor of "them killing you" vs "you killing them" is the antithesis of what liches are. So we'll start about, --we'll start the conversation on the framing of liches. So you get your parazon, you have your requiems, you DOWN your lich, you go in for the stab, and the requiem is WRONG then YOU die, but the lich also dies and goes away and gets stronger. Do we have any plans to change your consequence in that phase.
- Steve: Uhh........*head tilts*....uhh..nnn-...we don't have any plans for that. No. Nope.
- Reb: Alright so right now--
- Sheldon: Surprise question!
- Steve: *Laughs* Surprise question!
- Scott: I'm hip deep in "poo" but lemme talk about this other thing over here and..
- Reb: Well it's live! So players are talking about-
- Scott: I understand it's live but I...at the moment-
- Steve: I think that...I think that the feedback I saw was uhh....whyyy...uhh... "why isn't it 76 days to kill a Lich?"
- Reb: Yes. That was the TennoCon thing that we-
- Steve: And why, uh, --which is a part of the TennoCon UI, and why uhh..."why can the Lich beat me up so badly?"
- Reb: Yes.
- Steve: And of course....we didn't think that uh...you'd want to wait 76 days to get a Lich Weapon, --Kuva Lich weapon. And so we shortened that loop dramatically...uhh, and it did not work out we thought to have it going on and dragging on and sooo uhh, we tightened that loop! And in terms of why does the Lich Punch you out when you fail? Uhh...one of the things we discovered when we did the finishers for the Liches was it was very interesting or unique for the game that there be someone that would kick your butt for a change,
- Reb: Yeah.
- Steve: 'cause you kill everyone!
- Reb: Yes.
- Steve: and so that's why we did that inversion. Sooo there you go.
- Scott: That's....not to say that there isn't changes to the system coming.
- Reb: No.
- Steve: Yup.
- Scott: It's just that right now that....is not our focus, obviously, with the giant pile of stuff we just showed? That, --that's our current focus.
- Reb: Yes
- Scott: Uhm, and probably when we regroup in the new year, it'll be addressing those things...so...
- Reb: And I think one thing that's been pretty popular around the office is just--
- Steve: And more factions so.
- Reb: Yeah, more factions..
- Geoff: I'm just gonna say the, -we're, the system is gonna always, -it's gonna be looked at for a while because of the faction...expansion as well so....
- Reb: Yeah, I mean if we make the corpus liches? Maybe we'll make them last 79 days and then -laughing- maybe then everyone can have their cake and eat it too!
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What this tells me is that not only do they have their plates full with Empyrean, New War, Duviri and balances, new content, and the like coming out eventually, but that DE isn't seeing the issue we have with the Lich System. That generally the feedback Steve only sees is in regards to that the Lich system is too quick and we want it to last 76 days. Aside from that Steve believes we don't like the fact that the Lich can "beat us up so badly". He then goes off on a tangent regarding peoples want for Kuva weapons and the rewards of this system rather than the experience of it all.
Problems:
- DE staff is failing to see that WE DON'T MIND ENEMIES THAT CAN BEAT US. We like a challenge.
- They fail to see that we don't like being beaten UNFAIRLY. We trudge through various forms of RNG without so much as a lore explanation, only to encounter more RNG that is essentially a suicide-roulette where if you guess wrong? There's NOTHING you can do about it. Despite experience, skill, preparation, etc.
- It shows that DE is releasing content with the knowledge they're going to have to work on this some more after they release other stuff and "when they have the time".
Solutions:
- Players have been asking for more challenge. But we want fair challenges. This ongoing trend that DE has acknowledged themselves along with our constant feedback leaves no excuse for this.
- DE needs to remove some aspects of RNG from the Lich system. Most requested it seems is the suicide-roulette that is Requiem Mod guessing. Just give us a fighting chance. Give us a way to encounter Liche's without having to go to our doom to progress.
- I don't claim to know the inner workings of the people behind stocks and shares and making the final decision for the direction of the game, but the community has been *quite* vocal about their displeasure with the Lich system. Leaving it to work on other things only lets it stew and fester within the community. Many people keep saying, "We have no problem waiting longer if it means a better finished product". In addition DE is trying to meet a New Years deadline but honestly, most of the community seems fine with letting them work on things and not have to crunch like crazy to get it out.
Personal Thoughts:
DE needs to properly acknowledge the community displeasure and anger towards the Lich system. We need that transparency that they've been known for in the past. All we've gotten is blatant statements saying, "Nope. No changes planned. It's staying" despite all our feedback and complaints. This leaves a bad taste in the mouths of the community being simply dismissed as a whole like that. I understand they wanna add to, and work on the Lich system some more as time progresses. That the team worked hard on it and it's been an idea in the works for quite some time. But if DE refuses to change even the base system for it then the complaining and feedback will never stop.
My personal suggestion?
Ignore the Lich system entirely. Keep providing feedback. And warn new players not to touch it in its current state.
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13 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:
Exactly why we need to be really, really loud about this.
We have been. Every thread about the Lich system says the same thing De has now said multiple times the same thing
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Reb mentioned on stream they have no plans to change
- This was met with negative remarks and spurred reddit and the forums to create more threads about how it's a horrid system
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Reb mentioned on Reddit they're not changing the instant kill
- Her comment was downvoted into oblivion and every reply was on how horrible that decision was and they need to change it
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Steve mentioned on stream they're not changing it, they have other things to work on anyway
- This is creating worry and despair among players.
- Shows DE isn't taking our feedback into consideration
- Paranoia that future updates could receive the same treatment
And I think someone mentioned it on twitter and was met with the same hostility and negative expressions of how much this is a bad system. From people raging we didn't get what was shown at TennoCon to people simply wanting the suicide roulette changed. But DE still seems to remain staunch in their decision to keep the system as-is. Despite its many flaws.Even with people composing well structured and thought out posts about what's wrong, why it's not fun or enjoyable, and what can be done to change it.
As such I can only suggest, Avoid the Lich system entirely. Warn new players from touching it at all. Let DE know that going to our doom to progress is NOT fun.
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Reb mentioned on stream they have no plans to change
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1 hour ago, DrakeWurrum said:
I'm just saying that DE seems to see the lich system as integral to what Empyrean is gonna be. Which can be a good thing, so long as it means they really do continue to update both systems.
Before they can expand upon Lich and Empyrean they have to fix the base of it. If I still have to encounter Liches on their ship and be forced into that suicide-roulette? Then that's another aspect of Warframe I'm just going to ignore. And like the current system I'm ignoring, I'll be actively telling new players to avoid it as well. I want to watch this game grow and expand and be awesome. We can't do that if we don't bring in new players. Warframe has plenty to offer people but I don't want them experiencing the same RNG heavy nonsense and just quitting. And as always I'll repeat myself whenever on this subject.
Going to my doom to progress isn't fun DE
Regardless how you look at it, if they give them their own ships, their own space battles, all of that will still come back to the fact that we have to encounter them and rely on RNG to kill them. There's no combating this, there's no fighting chance. RNG dictates, "You either guessed right, and win! Or you guess wrong and you die. No you can't rely on skill....or past experience.....or anything that you've learned in your time playing and working up to where you are now. You're just dead....because I said so."
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2 minutes ago, Frendh said:
A ton of radial damage abilities disable the enemy. Frost skill 4, Volt skill 4 and so on. It is a generic attribute. Not something "copied" from skill 2 to skill 3.
I'm aware but while playing in-game the two abilities serve the same purpose. Low level missions? Excal's 3rd is wonderful. Clears big groups easily. Even as you progress further on it'll kill weaker enemies and you can just easily clean up those who remain. But anything higher than that and their function is pretty much the same with just one being more beneficial.
I enter a room with eight level 60 enemies.
I can cast Radial blind and blind them all for a decent duration, giving me a damage boost against them, not to mention opening a finisher for more than likely an insta-kill.
Or...
I can cast Radial Javelin and do so little damage to them to the point it's negligible. Followed by them being stunned for a shorter amount of time so they resume firing upon me.
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They both stun for a short time
Just one deals damage, the other doesn't.
Damage that falls off pretty quickly once you get through some of the star chart. Not to mention the damage buff you get from blinding enemies is more beneficial than the small damage you do from Radial Javelin.
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21 hours ago, Hixlysss said:
I kinda agree, because...honestly I'm not going to use the dual stat mods for the animals over something like fetch, or the armor strip of kavats...like between the HP mods and the basic damage mods, which are mandatory, AND the powers...there are too many other things that are actually useful. On top of that...well the actual status of the animals is...abysmal...like the 4 dual stat mods for em are worthless unless you got the status link from mecha overdrive...
So yeah, I think it's time the kubrows and kavats get their own weapon slot for mods.
Exactly. Play any sort of high level missions and you're stuck HAVING to put some survivability on your furry little friends. There's just simply too many mods and available builds to focus on one thing without the other two categories suffering.
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2 hours ago, Aldain said:
If anything they need to change his 3.
The Exalted problem however is an issue for more than just Excalibur.
Always felt like that should cost energy to do while using the Exalted Blade and doing a Slam attack or heavy slam or something.
And replacing his 3rd with something new and useful instead of a copy of his 2nd. Cause all it is, is just a copy that actually does a little damage but stuns for even shorter.
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23 hours ago, SmokingGoldFish said:
New Passive: When Decoy is destroyed Loki is granted 100% damage boost for 3 seconds
1. Decoy - Loki deploys a holographic copy of himself drawing enemy fire, being a high priority target in set radius lasting for set amount of duration and having double of lokis current health
2. Invisibility - Loki camouflages himself becoming invisible to enemies. This is now upper body animation meaning it can be casted while running.
3. Switch Teleport - Loki instantaneously swaps positions with a target, leaving a radiation proc on swapped enemy and making him a target for nearby enemies. Using Switch Teleport in combination with Decoy makes decoy reflect damage on the attackers for a set duration.
4. Disarm - Lets forth a wave of energy, disrupting the projectile weapons of enemies in range and forcing them to revert to melee combat. Disarmed units lose armor when attacking the Decoy.
Passive
No comment, I DO like the current passive for riven purposes and such but other than that, I don't use it much. Wish I did though. Or rather wish that played a more integral part of Warframe. It's cool, lol.
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Decoy
Even with health doubled a decoy would not last long in a lot of missions. I agree Decoy needs to change though. It's just not useful as-is. Pure duration based can be abused, health given to it doesn't help cause Loki is already so weak in that department. I'd love to hear more ideas from the community on what can be done to change it and make it more useful. I personally believe...
- The augment, "Savior Decoy" should be a normal part of the ability
- Multiple castings should be allowed (Up to 3 or 4)
- Should have an option to cast on allies for a cross between Mirage "Hall of Mirrors" and Wukongs, "Celestial Twin". A copy that runs around but stays close, but does no damage. Just as a distraction and to lower aggro on you in particular.
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Invisibility
Honestly I'm fine with how this is. Mostly cause I'm just used to doing a small hop, gliding and casting it so by the time I touch ground, I'm invisible. Would be a welcome change though. Maybe give it a cooler animation for casting and new cloaking effects like Ivara Prime is getting.
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Switch Teleport
I've been suggesting something similar in Council chat for a while now. But instead of "Radiation"....Well know how when Nyx casts "Chaos" (Her 3rd ability) we get that hologram of Nyx pointing a gun imposed on the enemy? Basically that. You take enemy spot, enemy takes your spot with a hologram of Loki on them. They recieve xxxx% more damage while under this effect and Loki himself would have the hologram of the enemy on him. Same as radiation effect in a way but it's set on the duration of the ability instead of a proc duration. Could have the same duration as Cloaking, but you appear as the enemy now. So long as you don't do any crazy maneuvers your disguise isn't broken. While disguised you could,
- Bypass lasers and cameras
- Unlock control panels/hacking panels instantly
- Breaking disguise for an attack gives you a xxx% boost in damage for x amount of seconds
Could also let Loki Switch Teleport with dead bodies before they vanish so he can lie in wait similar to Hydroid. Ambush them that way for that damage bonus.
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Disarm
If Decoys can last long enough to warrant your idea, I feel like that could work. Though not a permanent loss to armour. Basically explained in that they're distracted by the decoy and attacking from their rear would bypass their armour cause they weren't expecting it.
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Synergy between abilities
Casting Decoys while invisible could create, "fading decoys" in a small radius from the cast point. They just appear and disappear repeatedly over and over in that small area to confuse enemies and increase their survivability.
Casting Invisibility while switched with an enemy will make it look like the enemy you're disguised as, just dies randomly. (Not killed by a frame) This could keep the train rolling in that there's no Tenno on board there and keep you "in stealth" (Either disguised or invisible) so no alarms are ever sounded.
Disarming then Switching with an enemy will make it seem like you're an enemy with a weapon still. As a result enemy will stack up on you similar to how they do so with Nullifier/Frost eximus units to try and stay protected. Giving Loki an easy time to cut down groups in close quarters
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I'm sure the community and DE could come up with more balanced ways of implementing these ideas but damnit Loki's one of the oldest frames and he's been largely ignored. Switch Teleport in particular is a relic of maneuvering the battlefield. Something we have NO problems with today.
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We've been saying this repeatedly. Anytime DE speaks of it, community response is negative.If they post on reddit about it, they're downvoted into oblivion.
Rest assured DE knows we find the suicide RNG coin toss ridiculous. They know we dislike it and want to have an ACTUAL adversary that we fight and if we die? That's on us. Not RNG. But also know that DE does not care. Someone is stubborn and seems to campaign for this "feature" to remain as-is. Why? I don't know. What I do know is if DE wants to fix/expand upon the Lich "Nemesis" system into something that players can communicate with them on? That we actually enjoy playing and interacting with? They first need to start at the base and do 2 things.
- Make the fight fair. Make it skill based.
- Lighten up the RNG somehow.
After that they can play with methods of how it goes down and features to expand upon and all that fun stuff. Till they do that I'll be repeating myself as always, Avoid the Lich system entirely and warn new players against interacting with it at all. Remember, we don't want them to get stuck with the same RNG based nonsense and quit the game. And as always....
Going to my doom to progress isn't fun DE.
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I know DE has plans somewhere down the line for companions 2.0 (Or are we on 3.0 now?) but could we just get two categories for equipping beast companions? As it is, Sentinels and Moas have two mod configurations. One for them, and one for their weapon. Why not have the same for our pets?
Name it something cool like, "Tooth and nail" and move some mods over to those systems.
At the moment I feel like there's 3 major builds to go for with our furry companions. Survivability, offensive measures, or utility. We can't focus on any specific one, we can't build our pets for any specific role without greatly sacrificing much needed mods. They can save their re-works and "Pack mentality" moves that were discussed once upon a time for another day. Least with this small change pets would be WAY more useful.
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15 minutes ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:
I want the lich to be able to kill us, but not guaranteed.
I'd be happy with like an action sequence option. You fail any input and you die. You pass it all and gain a little extra murmur and the dude runs away.
Exactly.
I just want a fighting chance. An actual formidable foe that I have trouble against who I know can strike or intervene randomly to make things difficult for me. Someone quick and relentless that seriously, Wants.Me.Dead. But I want my failure to be on ME. Not on some RNG suicide coin-toss.I know DE said they're leaving everything as is, but making the fight fair is the 1st necessary step. Once we have that, we can expand and enhance the experience.
Just have to hope DE stops being so stubborn as it's now 4 times they've said, "Not changing it. Fine as-is."
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Note: If any mods can make the text in my boxes appear normal, help me out
They could still change and make Liches fun if they put in the effort. For instance,
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Make them pursue us
- We're insanely fast and acrobatic. Make them at least fast. Have them chase us through the tiles.
- Having them spawn and only walk/jog after us through 1, MAYBE 2 tiles and giving up just walking about poses no urgency or threat.
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Let them trick us
- Following waypoints and suddenly notice your team has went another way? BAM, your Lich changed them. Bringing you into a dead end, putting the room on lockdown and trying to kill you. Basically we can respond with either fending them off while a team mate hacks the door so we can flee, or we pull a Rorschach and kick their ass.
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Have them hinder us
- Stealing our stuff is annoying but I get it. It develops a dislike for the Lich. Run up some Nightmare mode mutators. Your Lich could disable your shields temporarily since you have that connection with them. They could find a way to drain your health over time. Disable a mini-map or crosshairs, turn off your vacuum. Send a squad of Manics. Etc.
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Make us struggle
- Lich's need to be more powerful. Either in attack power or survivability. The Wolf of Saturn Six had survivability on his side and there was a sense of fear about him. Why? Cause he was a distraction. People had to take this guy down and got pelted by other enemies or had to worry about a defense objective.
- This could also play into the lore that female grineer are strong and ruthless. Got a female Lich? They'll deal even more damage. Their cold, serious attitudes towards you will seem warranted now.
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Let them be unique
- Currently each Lich has traits/quirks about them. These could easily play into an ace in the hole for defeating stronger, more dangerous Liches. Currently the traits we have and ways to integrate them would be something like...
Allergic to Nature Fighting them outdoors lowers Attack/Defense by x% Always Hungry Drawing out the fight will get them famished, lower speed by x% Bloodhound Invisibility is useless and they'll target the cloaked enemy in particular Coward They have a chance to panic when losing large portions of health at once Deserter Fear of Being Alone Killing all other enemies in the surrounding area lowers Attack by x% Fear of Children Operators do x% more damage (Void proc lowers their defense by x%) Fear of Kubrows Change to, "Fear of wild-life" and let pets do x% more damage Fear of Space Travel Fighting in space lowers defense and can make them pause in fear Hatred of Corpus Corpus weaponry does x% more damage but enrages them (They get damage boost too) Hatred of Infested Same as above but with infested weaponry Loner Is susceptible to friendly fire at an x% increase of damage received. Paranoid Poor Sense of Balance Jump-kicks and slam attacks knock them down Prone to Vertigo Have them jump up/down to reach you will cause them to be dizzy. Lower speed/pause in place Pyromaniac Carries explosives/firebombs that can be detonated for procs and damage (Think Sargas Ruk parts) Trophy Hunter In stealing more rewards, you also get back 1.2x the rewards when beating a Lich. (Scales with level up to 2x) Vain Dressing in Grineer cosmetics will have them monologue at times - These traits and weaknesses could warrant a buff for the Lich. It would certainly make us pick our battles. Know when to flee and when to engage.
- Could have us deploy drones to spy and learn about the Lich to get this info. (Know how much DE loves their time-gates)
- Could be expanded upon with ideas from the Design Council and community.
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Give us a fighting chance
- Life and death on an RNG coin toss isn't fun or engaging. It does not provide humility or make us feel like we were beaten.
- I don't feel grievance with my Lich and want to rise up to beat him like the hero of a story.
- All this does is fester annoyances with the Devs who implemented it as though I'm playing with an immature DM who decides what failures occur, "Because I said so".
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Until change come to pass? I for one, --like many others, will avoid the Lich system entirely.
As will I warn new players from even participating in its RNG heavy shenanigans.
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Make them pursue us
DE supposedly only listening to "specific" feedback regarding Liches
in General
Posted
Thread stays relevant as we approach yet another Dev-Steam.
For we're going to see more of them avoiding Liches as they focus on the release of Empyrean. And while they'll discuss a few game-breaking issues that are being worked on and what they plan to expand on? I guarantee you they'll either pass over, or being incredibly vague regarding the main issues people have with this update such as 50% returns on repaired items, and how the repairing in general costs an arm and a leg. If they do mention the Lich system? It'll be in passing in that they have any plans for integrating it with Empyrean. The forums are still filled with feedback, complaints and people keep mentioning how separated and lame the system is in its current state but as the thread suggests....
DE has selective hearing on what feedback they want to listen to.