[Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no]

4 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Oh no I do agree with you, I just meant that people who complain about it won't ever stop, I'm sorry I don't think I made that clear in my post-Dx

The basic premise of being able to pick your gender or sex as part of an appearance in-game is indeed a core and basic functionality of games, this being Male or Female makes perfect sense in any game regardless, that is just as no brainer and anyone who complains about that is well, as you said itself, a bit of a fool.

However, I (poorly mind you) tried to mention where Game/Movie Devs suddenly change or bring something new into the Game that changes the core Gender or appearance of a character or the lore behind a character is when it can be classed as "Woke" (according to people)

As a recent example: Warhammer recently started retconning their "Lore" by changing Custodians Origins to include female custodians. This has made a ton of people mad. I have never played the game but given by "Lore" of what I looked up, there were never female custodians, only Males.

So taking that into account, suddenly changing something that has never been in-game for years, would make a a lot of people upset and may make them think that this was done for the wrong reasons or can even be considered gaslighting since a game dev could be doing only to get profit of that side of the community LGBT+

So let's say DE suddenly allowed us to swap the gender of a frame out of the blue, where it's been years that the gender of the frame has been part of the frame's identity. (Excal was always a Male) and then suddenly turn around and say "Oh no, Excal can be any gender", while this will be great for people who want more Fashion Frame, it could (and porb will) be taken out of context and have people questioning why.

Another prime example is why people say 'Keep your LGBTQ+ agenda out of this!' is due to them being so used to the game not having any of the elements suddenly having said elementals in the game 

A prime example of this is Overwatch: If I recall correctly, out of nowhere, they decided to make Trancer and Solider 76 have a forced gender preference in what they eh "Like"

Also, in terms of movies, a lot of Disney movies and Marvel have made movies like "Iron Maiden" and replaced beloved children's books and cartoons with a completely different character or gender (Snow White, Little Mermaid etc), why do this?  

Overall, I fully agree that there is no rational reason to complain about a female Rhino model or a male Trinity model being made, but given how Society is these days and how the fact that people have trashed movies or games that change said things I just mentioned, people are going to very sceptical of this sudden change or allowance.

I hope I have explained that well and this makes sense since I -really- suck at explaining things :x

 

TL:DR: Nothing against allowing us to have a cute Female Ash Warframe but with how Society is these days, people will always complain and take it out of context, due to how Movies and Games Devs have ruined their rep or history, due to they wanted to be more "fitting" in culture and diversity

 

(I really hope this not details the topic, not the intention here, just haveing a normal convo, even tho I'm terrified, cuz you are a Mod L13 xD)

That was very well put. We live in very strange times.

You are likely correct this would spark some of that.

 

Heres the thing. When the Orokin made the warframes, they gave the virus to men and women, it transformed them and Ballas shapes them into weapons.
There would be no obstacle for someone with godlike powers like Ballas had, to create two versions of one powerset and then let the 7 decide wich one to move forward with.

The other one would still have the BP stored for Helminth. 

 

Warframes and Tenno are basically genderfluid. They don´t have genders, but they do have sexes ( I know biology gets everyone messed up) and the Deluxe and Prime skins are allready a complete rewrite of the original warframes design.

This is Equinox Trivia. It would work well applied to the concept of dual genders.

 

• Despite the androgynous nature of Equinox's design, former Community Editorial Coordinator Adam Ma has confirmed that Equinox is a female Warframe with a masculine form.^[1]
• Equinox appears as her composite form (both day and night) in any shared space, such as in the player's Landing Craft, in Relays, or while using Archwings. This form can also be seen briefly when shifting between forms with  Metamorphosis.
  • When customizing her appearance, a button in the bottom right of the screen labelled "Metamorphosis" allows players to switch between Equinox's three forms. However, leaving the Appearance menu reverts Equinox back to her Composite form.
• Equinox refers to a biannual event where daytime and night are of roughly equal duration.
  • During her development, Equinox's separate forms were originally referred to as Anima and Animus, both of which are concepts in Jungian Psychology. They are respectively described as the feminine and masculine aspects of a person's psyche. Equinox is still referred to as 'AnimaAnimus' internally in the game files.

[Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no]

2 hours ago, Sziklamester said:

For female Ash I would suggest the following ones - Ashe, Dusk, Arit, Shela. Long ago when this topic was much more active there was name suggestions aswell for frame names but some frames actually have a pair in different forms. Example is Oberon and Titania but these frames actually different in terms what they doing. Not necesarry to have the similar name for frames to make them unique and still paired with their gender variant. Ember for example could have Spark, Blaze, Flem as a male variant and still close to what Ember does. There are frames which trickier to name it but for appearance it is enough if at least 50-60% similar to what the said frame is. I think it is doable but not really think this could happen since this was a demand for 11 year at least. However DE is not known for their speed to implement things and before the Plains of Eidolon they shown a concept about the open world and few animals which happend later. (Still missing the plains Deer). 

 

For me it would be nice if the tennogen could be improved or a segment can get held there for warframe creations what you normally find on Artstation, Deviant art. Tons of concepts laying on the forums aswell with no sign they ever be used. I can hope but maybe better to stay realistic. Still I would want my female Ash to happen.

You make good points. Realistic we get a bodytype-option any time soon? Not really.

For Tennogen it would make the most sense of course, I agree with you there. so many concepts and art that are just that, fanart.

Nyx has her Nemesis deluxe, that tries HARD to make her male and allmost gets there, but this is Dark sector-related.

 

One thing they could do is make the ones for Ember - male  and Ash - female, that was actually their origin at one point.
Call them Proto/Lost originals, Variants or something like this.

 

 

 

[Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no]

Right. Names, De would make up some cool name or go with the allready extablished balance.

 

As for why put in all that work and should it be free or plat?

1. If free, Tennogen suddenly have oine more template to work from, wich can only be a good thing,.

2. If plat, that is the same thing as a deluxe yes. It would only make sense if pllayers would want it bad enough, and they only would if they looked absolutely badass.

 

My take is that free would be the best way, the release of them would be slow and maby even by popular vote.
Alot of us love Tennogen, and creators want more options all the time. I am sure this would lead to alot of creativity and frames impossible in the current state.

 

Finally, this will probably not be a thing untill DE deliberately make a kitbash-frame  like they talked about at PAX. That frame could have no restrictions, be genderless, and be a great testbed for this entire concept.

[Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no]

1 hour ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

I would like to know how much work it would be if you looked at it from a deluxe skins point of view. Dont afew of those require whole new models as well?

Look at some of titanias for instance. 

(Is it the empress?) One that doesnt have the seperate waist wings and instead it looks like the backend of a dress?

At least from my uneducated mind. It had to have been alot of extra work.

So i just want to raise the question out of sheer curiosity how much extra it would be to genderbend a frame if you looked at it like its a new deluxe skin? :think:

For the sake of theorycrafting, we have finished male skeletons to work with. To recycle one of those for a genderbending frame then adding tweeks and frame specific attatchments such as titanias wings. Might be a swifter approach.

(If they decide to go for the classical titania wings and not something new 'empress' style)

(Correct me if im thinking of the wrong skin name)

A deluxe is a new frame entirely, mesh, textures, fx and  sometimes animation.

So yes, a gender-alternative would maby be even less work than that depending of course of how much such a frame would be altered. Better to make a new one of you are going to do it.

 

Warframes power lies in the shared skeleton, shared animations and shared cosmetics, though they often break and clip - but that´s games for you.

 

The big work lies in making sure all gear, weapons, syandanas, skins, helmets work with the new one. We all have some frame that just clips like hell with our fav armor or ephemera, that they just can´t fix.

[Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no]

That what it would have been.

[Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no]

Maby Nyx who actually IS the twin of Excalibur is a better example of what a male/female option could have looked like.

[Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no]

A clarification

 

This is in no way motivated by current day politics or the debate of genders and pronouns IRL.

This is purely looks.

 

I agree and understand it would require a dedicated small team, and I allso agree DE will never commit to it as long as they have grander and bigger things to worry about.

PvP, Framefighter, Lunaro and the arcade are a few examples of rescorces put into projects on the side of their main bulk of work.

 

Most who answer go to "It will be too much work" rather than the hypothetical:
DE says in a livestream they are rolling out masculine and femenine models for 4 warframes as a pilotproject to let the players test this out. If it takes off, they will do more, if not they will be a one-off thing that you only get if you absolutely want it.

 

To me this is a bit like Umbra. They say they will never do another one and I will allways want more. The reasons for not doing more Umbra are the same as for not creating a female Nekros.

They once said they would never make Valkyrs original skin. And once they did, the deluxes just kept on coming.

[Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no]

8 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

I hate to say it, because I can appreciate the effort, but I'm honestly not impressed. If this is all a genderswapped frame turns out to be, I don't feel any hype for it

I hope you keep modeling though, the result came out clean

Good thing you are not impressed, this was a push, pull, inflate, deflate operation that took me 20 minutes or so to do. Now imagine what 1 few days work could turn into.

[Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no]

10 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Based on these images I am starting to suspect you have never seen a woman in real life. If they made Baruuk look like that I'd stick with the male version. 

 

WRT the question, I think it would be a waste of resources and it doesn't really interest me, nor do I think it would draw enough interest to be worth the time necessary to do it, there's over 50 warframes, after all.

I made this in 20 mins, so don´t take it so seriously. Someone wanted to see Baruuk as a female, so I played around with it for a bit.

A true genderswap would be more than just a copy and boobs or pecs.

[Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no]

Lots of different thoughts. Thank you all for that, I appreciate it.

All of the points raised are valid and I agree this would only be a thing if DE wanted to do it and ran out of ideas for new and good frames, so instead  focus on making deluxes of different flavors.

You can argue they are allready doing that now, considerable rescources must be spent on deluxe-variants and more and more exotic frames. Not to mention proto-frames and (I assume) entrati-based ones to come. 

 

Anyway, thank´s for playing everyone!

[Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no]

1 hour ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Not this again...

This topic has been dead for years and it should have stayed that way.

This, like Umbra, is more of a seasonal cycle I think.

[Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no]

24 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

If it was easy and convenient, as in resources and time weren't an issue, then maybe. Except to my understanding they aren't, so such products would require effort, time and resources that could likely be put elsewhere, like new designs and ideas. 

Like there are some Warframes that I think would be cool, if we could see alternative designs for, and some I would want, but again... not necessarily at the cost of alternative projects. For example I also want all deluxe skins to get Voidshell technology, but not if it meant that Warframe stopped producing updates for a year. I'd like more Warframe reworks to Frames, but not if it meant no new Warframes or Primes for a year. So on. Could be fun, could be cool? I don't think is likely to happen, realistic or worth holding your breath over. 

Also, to address certain ideas expressed so far, more nuanced takes on gender aren't a modern invention. Like many things, what country, nation, age, culture, and language you look at, whilst more simpler terms for gender are pretty prevalent and common, they aren't the only examples. Many different cultures in times past had more nuanced, or increased complexity (relatively speaking), just other time such ideas often get folded, simplified, complicated so on. Even for English speakers, girl use to be for both boys and girls (modern meaning), like a few hundred years ago, and modern day boys had to be distinguished other ways. Then later pink used to be a colour for boys and that baby blue light colour for girls, until IIRC the 1940's. History wasn't something that started when you were born, not everything you learned as a child at school is necessarily historically accurate or simple, (did you know there are actually more than 5 senses?). Nothing wrong with having a view, just be aware your view may also have been an invention/byproduct of the times you were born in/raised in. 

Pretty much agree with all your points.

Now that we are finally getting protoframes and a story about Stalker ( both requests of mine for 10 years now) all I really want them to do is another Umbra.

[Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no]

48 minutes ago, TeaHands said:

I'd rather get Voidshells applicable to all skins before slapping some massive buhonkerdonakloos on Barruk. But that's just me.

I imagine most feel that way.

[Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no]

4 minutes ago, PrideB4TheFall said:

Nice baiting thread you got here.

Not really. I have been asking this for years.

[Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no]

On 2024-04-16 at 4:10 PM, RLanzinger said:

NO

because :

• It's oftenly theme base, I don't wanna a male little siren or a female Nidus (one is too mcuh already)
• I don't want a to collect 2 Warframes for the same set of abilities, <== 99% reason WHY
• I prefer Brother and Sister frame like Rhino - Hildryn or Vauban - Protea,
• Mag and Nyx were originally a fork from Volt and Excalibur,

You would not collect 2 frames. You would unlock a BP for both bodytypes. It would litterally be optional, and only if DE and the community wanted it.

 

On 2024-04-16 at 4:08 PM, ReddyDisco said:

Nyx is genderswapped excal, they wanted to have male and female variants of frames initially, that was scrapped. i wouldn't have any issues with it if they did it.

Yeah I know that they changed their plans. Ever since then they have been doing sort of mirrors that are supposed to go together.

I mean, it´s fine the way it is. I would not say no if the option for a female Nekros was there is all I´m saying.

[Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no]

3 minutes ago, GrayArchon said:

This was a concept that DE was initially going to implement (and you can still see that Nyx is a genderswapped Excalibur), but they scrapped it very early on. I think in terms of the resource cost involved it just wouldn't seem worth it. Plus, from a lore perspective it doesn't make much sense, given that each warframe was originally constructed from a singular human host.

I know all that. It depends on how you see it. The deluxes are obviously new frames entirely. And if they wanted to do this they would just make some addition to the lore and a reason for it to exist.

 

I am for it at the end of the day, I get not all are.

[Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no]

Genderswaps, let´t talk.

 

So. I have asked this in the past and since it came up again on Twitter, I just wanted to throw it out there.

Should DE make this a thing some day? Would you want the option to choose male and female frame-bodies? Or are you just fine with things as they are?

 

I made this today just to test things out in 2024.

 

If Nyx had a male body-option.

Liger back in the day did this one.

Yes, I am aware it would require a new mesh for each frame and I understand the work that needs to go into it.

That said I still want it, I allways did.

-arch111-

[Nyx Skin: Succubus Delux]

On 2024-02-06 at 5:58 PM, (XBOX)DragonMan 2700 said:

Could it still have the glowing bits if tennogen? 

And I understand DE not allowing the skirt for tennogen, (sigh) as heart breaking as that is 😞.

Hypothetically speaking. if tennogen what do you think of the syandana tail idea? 

Her normal body could of course be worked with emissives and normals. I will probably try that at some point.

[Nyx Skin: Succubus Delux]

A fast run.

https://x.com/_arch111_/status/1754107200023273852?s=20

 

[Nyx Skin: Succubus Delux]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

thanks,  i was clean in dec , next scan is march right before my birthday :< , as it turns out i was immune to the painkillers, so not a FUN process gettign the treatments ..especially the spinal tap chemo 

sometimes cancer can be sneaky or just appear rapidly grow

(here is how  it started for me) 

  Hide contents

 the cancer almost got me in 2 ways , i didn't know about but it at all , and it was a rapid growing aggressive type 

although I was feeling off for months , basically i went to ER as i was feeling anemic.

the nurse checked my hemoglobin , it was 4.0 , she freaked slammed me into wheel chair and rushed me off

i was near death due to excessive blood loss i was told, got 3 bags over a week and back to 7.4 HG then got surgery to stop bleeding via laser cauterization .

they took pics and told me I had a form of stomach cancer caused the bleed. they took biopsy and sent it off, i met my oncologist on my birthday to be told i had a huge bcell aggressive lymphoma and with intense treatment it can be cured 

glow spot in stomach is the mass

 

That´s an infestation for sure! I am so glad you got out the other side of it. And hope for the best to come.
 

I have see experiments with sound-frequency, and a theory that the ancients actually used minerals and vibration to cure illness and engineering thousands of years ago.

All of that is supressed like Tesla, but I think there is truth there.

 

I  have seen sound blow up cancer-cells under a microscope and this, plus nanobots and biobots are probably the future we see in Star Trek.

Maby when all ice melts and the sea rises and swallows antire coastlines, the humans will come together to move forward together.

[Nyx Skin: Succubus Delux]

12 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Sorry to hear that. Hope your treatment has been successful so far. :<

I lost my InLaw 2021 to Cancer, which she told no one about.

Sorry to hear that. My partner just lost her mom in december. I wish humans would wage war on cancer instead of all the other things they love to waste money on.

[Nyx Skin: Succubus Delux]

3 hours ago, Dreddeth said:

I'm saying that your suggestion is unsuitable because it is tasteless and lesser quality compared to an existing skin with the same theme. If you had submitted something that didn't look like a rejected Subverse character, you might've had a point to make, but as-is it just grosses me out.

You are of course entitled to your opinion.

Since you seem emotionally invested in this let me just say this. Relax, this is not ment as a serious submission to DE as a new deluxe. It is a fan-concept just like hundreds more. This is made for fun, and if you don´t like it, you don´t like it.

[Nyx Skin: Succubus Delux]

4 hours ago, Dreddeth said:

Uh... I probably can't post screencaps of Fine Print without violating ToS, but looking between Nyx Pasithea and the dommy demon mommy who gets dragged into a soul contract dispute, the similarities are uncanny. Come back when you have an idea what I'm talking about.

And again, the same artist drew both of them, so there's a concrete link between the two designs, as opposed to speculation.

I don´t know that artist or those comics. I took a look at them and while it is good art, I fail to see your  point.

 

Makos design looks very different to the final ingame model. I loved the artwork for the skin I even posted that back in 2918, but the actual model and textures are not as good imo.

So I can understand you like the design and the artist behind it, however I do not understand why that is a reason no to have more than one skin for Nyx.

 

You are saying we have to choose one over the other when they look nothing alike.

[Nyx Skin: Succubus Delux]

20 hours ago, Dreddeth said:

Nyx Pasithea already hits this theme, and more tastefully imo. Take a look at the artist's other work, like Sunstone and especially Fine Print, and you'll see it immediately.

Thing is that is a completely different look. This is a succubus, a temptress and not infested insectoid like that skin.

And besides, she can have two skins right? 

[Nyx Skin: Succubus Delux]

1 hour ago, BowserNC said:

The entire wf community if this gets a release:

When I first started work based on makos designs, I wondered if DE would ever go for something like this.

Then I saw the art for Staynax.