Librus_107

Normally I tend to keep my lid shut when it comes to game balance - I am in no way an expert when it comes to game design. And while a community this huge can indeed be... dramatic (it's impossible to please 100% of a playerbase this huge, after all), I've honestly gotta' side with the crowd on this one. Line-Of-Sight as a solution to "nuking" hasn't ever felt comfortable. I'm sure everyone has their own equally valid qualms, but from my own experience, my main issue is visualization. Having to basically eyeball an ability range that isn't really ever visualized to me is difficult and generally uncomfortable! Being told my targets are determined by Line Of Sight, but then having the limitations of ability range factor in to that... it's hard to tell if I hit a distant target, or if they evaded the invisible "blast" from my eyes. Perhaps visualizing this range could help, but it feels like that'd make things clunkier. Changing these abilities to be a big Arca Plasmor-esque shockwave feels a bad change (and also would make a handful of frames basically have the same ability), and depicting the range as, say, a line on the ground... well, what would determine when that line is there, and when it isn't (since it always being present would make for more visual noise)? And what if you decide to cast midair? LOS really only feels great on abilities with infinite range: if you can see them, you can hit them. But obviously that only works with certain abilities: Mesa is a perfect example of building around LOS, since she has to, y'know, actually aim her bullets to some degree. Her range is clearly visualized: the big circle that functions as a big, scary reticule. And it limits itself effectively to limit constant room-clearing potential, as the circle shrinks with each shot. THE PROBLEM, THEN: "Nuke" abilities easily become the be-all abilities, bringing attention away from other, non-explosive frames. They also ruin the fun for those who don't play those frames, basically having only one frame running around, evaporating everything, leaving the rest to scrounge up what they can from the remains. And I agree here, this stinks! I remember the whole Banshee situation... (And being bullied for not using a "good" frame stinks! Every frame should have their reason to be included in a group.) [ONE SOLUTION: Changing The Abilities]: Now, this no doubt is a more complex concept, but other people have raised some really good ideas, especially in regards to our main culprit, Dante. Perhaps, as others have suggested Dark Verse marks targets, behaving as it originally did, then Tragedy only affects those market targets. Perhaps other abilities can mark enemies, too - the little owls maybe casting marks on targets as well. Perhaps Tragedy just calculates how it deals damage, instead of making all DoTs apply at once? This philosophy could extend to other ex-nukers, like Ember: perhaps she lets out a massive, but slow-moving shockwave, Flame Eximus-style. There's loads of potential, even if it would take a while to fine-tune. My point really is: there's more creative ways to limit big explosions. These flashy "ultimates" are meant to feel satisfying, after all! OG Dante felt great because it was like one big, wind-up punch: casting both verses, and then letting it rip, literally closing the book on a crowd in one single, satisfying motion. [ANOTHER SOLUTION: Making Nukes Expensive]: Perhaps bringing a big bomb of a Warframe along could be viable! Being able to clear out a crowd of encroaching enemies in a flash is really useful, after all, and doesn't always have to be a means of stealing kills. Sometimes a situation will get so hairy that it's best to just let loose a big, flashy super-ability and get a moment to breathe. Nukers could be a viable member to any squad. The main issue in that case, is their ability to just do nothing but explode. Constantly. Dante here has some potential ways to slow down his constant explosions, and I'm sure the rest of the once-exploder squad could benefit from such shifts, too. Implement a Lavos-style cooldown, along with the usual energy cost. In Dante's case, perhaps apply an independent cooldown to each form of Final Verse. This could encourage diversifying what he casts, or work with the fact that he doesn't always have to cast every time he has both pages filled. Or, just amp up the energy cost. Dante has a pretty big reserve, after all, since he's meant to be casting constantly. In both cases, the idea would be to make casting a room-fumigation a strategic choice, rather than the solution to everything. Is it worth the risk to use nearly all of your energy to get some breathing room? Is it worth the risk to not be able to cast an explosion again, should another swarm of enemies smother you? It's like packing the Zarr along: sure, it empties a room, but it's going to be a hot minute before you can do it again. Is this the perfect time to let it rip? If not, maybe hold off on letting loose, and use another solution you have available. Perhaps another teammate now can leap in and save the day with their kit. [CLOSING THOUGHTS]: While this goes for a lot of other Frames, Dante here is our current focus. And to suddenly require more adept positioning on a caster who, until recently, could float around aimlessly and cast away... it's a very uncomfortable change. LOS is finicky, it's not visualized properly unless your range is infinite (because then it doesn't matter as much), and it has a reputation of making big, satisfying, finishing moves just feel disappointing to use. I understand people tend to dislike longer reads, and I also understand that I am not a game developer. But the public outcry has a very, very valid point, and as per the update posts, we've been encouraged to share our thoughts regarding this whole ordeal. Perhaps a better idea is already out there, taped to some whiteboard in the office. This is just me sharing my own thoughts on the issue, and why, personally, LOS has felt very uncomfortable to me in nearly all cases.

I really tend to take most things as they are, even if they're uncomfortable, but I'm with the crowd here: LOS really isn't a good fix. If Dark Verse is still allowed to be an AOE, it simply doesn't have a good "feel" to have to suddenly aim within a range that isn't in any way visualized to me with it's stronger version. Maybe if it was some roaring shockwave attack, or if I could see my LOS range in some way once Tragedy was primed to fire? I'm sure there's a few ways to handle it that don't feel nearly as... finicky, and disruptive. Heck, I'd take detailed number adjustments over having to - again - eyeball a casting range. It basically feels as if the ability serves no real use now, unless within actual arm's reach. I understand it's an iterative process, and there's a lot of details and designs going on behind the scenes we can't even begin to fathom - but please. There are undoubtedly better, more user-friendly solutions available. (And take it from me, someone who has terrible aim: I was on Dante like a silverfish to musty, old book pages once I was finally finished putting him together!)