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Arc5in

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  1. After I hit rank 30, I logged in for log-in rewards for a couple days, and then stopped bothering even with that. Now I learned that Wolf is readily accessible in-game for a few more days? I'm not sure, it sounded like someone said something which implied that, but rather than look into it and maybe go farm him for a couple missing hammer parts, I'm going to uninstall WF, because I can use that space on my SSD for other games that are actually fun... Nightwave killed WF for me. It was exhausting, it demanded too much of my time, it caused me stress, it had negative effects on my life outside of WF, it felt like work, it was all of the reasons I don't play mobile games. I don't have any confidence that DE is going to fix this mess. I expect they will make minor tweaks to try to make it slightly more bearable. That is completely unacceptable to me. This system needs to be completely overhauled with a totally different set of design goals, and alerts need to be brought back and improved on as well. But I don't think either of those things will happen. I came back to WF after not playing for years, was really enjoying the game, and all the added content. I was very impressed with all the improvements. Some things still needed improving and some aspects seemed poorly conceived, but overall, it was great and I was really excited to be playing WF again. Then Nightwave hit, and completely killed my enthusiasm to play WF. It became a job, and I toughed it out and got to Rank 30, but that took all the motivation to play WF I had to offer, and left me empty. This is not entertainment, it is simply psychological manipulation tricking people into persisting with something that they aren't actually enjoying. I've been playing other PC games since I finished nightwave and I've been really enjoying them. Not chipping away at them endlessly despite not actually enjoying myself. They are actually entertaining and they ask nothing of me other than being entertained. If they become anything other than entertaining, I can turn them off, and come back to them whenever I feel like it, without fear of missing out on anything. History will not look kindly on the developers that try to squeeze their players in this current trend of anti-consumer anti-fun games-as-services trend. WF was one of the only f2p game-as-service games that was being developed with any integrity at all. Nightwave is a thinly veiled attempt to squeeze their players and as such it represents DEs fall from grace, as it has changed WF from the only good f2p game into just another example of why I don't play f2p games. I will go away now. Probably won't be posting on these forums any more. Won't be playing WF anymore. Maybe I'll check back in after a couple years and see if this mess was sorted out, or if it simply served to sort out the player base, retaining only gluttons for punishment with deep pockets. I doubt anyone from DE will even read this, but if they do, DE you have done some incredible work, don't ruin it now. I hope I will be pleasantly surprised and impressed when I come back a few years from now. Goodbye for now WF.
  2. Yeah, so this is something that a certain vocal minority here can't seem to grasp. New players have no way of knowing how far they can hope to get in this system. 1) They see some tasks are impossible for them to accomplish. Not due to difficulty, but because they are simply locked out, period. 2) They have no idea what tasks will be available over the coming weeks, and thus no idea how much standing they will be locked out of. 3) This results in pressure. Because they don't know how much standing they'll be locked out of total, they feel that they had better do every task they possibly can do. Here is the other issue that a few people can't seem to grasp. This system requires the extended time commitment of many weeks. 1) If a player can't be available for at least a full month, they are not eligible for the top rewards here. 2) If a player can't be available for several weeks, they have little hope of getting more than a tiny amount of nitain. 3) This issue is compounded by the fact that some players are also locked out of several tasks each week, increasing the number of weeks they require to achieve the same results. They don't require more time because they are slow, lazy, or unskilled, but simply because of the way the system is implemented. Also, a few people here fail to grasp the psychologically manipulative nature of this event. They disregard the pressure that people feel as unfounded, and they dismiss players fears of missing out, or sense of being punished, or impression of these challenges being chores, as irrational. When in fact systems like this are deliberately designed to play upon these aspects of human psychology. Rational or not, these feelings are real, and they are not abnormal or unexpected, but rather entirely understandable. It is simply disingenuous to dismiss these concerns, and one can't help but wonder if this sort of obtuseness could merely be the behavior of an addict, who will blindly defend their addiction. Warframe, as a free to play loot oriented game, has always been psychologically manipulative, but up until now DE have always done a laudable job of tempering that, and maintaining a difficult balance between paid for luxury/convenience and a complete gaming experience that does not actually require spending any real money. Warframe is the only F2P game many of us know of that does not have any content locked behind paywalls, and allows accessible means of acquiring premium in-game currency within the game via player trade. So even the developers' bread-and-butter items, like inventory slots, can be unlocked without spending real money. This is quite remarkable, and it is highly appreciated by many of us, even those of us who have spent real money on the game and didn't mind doing so. We still love that we didn't feel we had to, and it was our choice, one we were happy to make because we were happy to support such a great developer. To many of us, Nightwave feels like a major step closer to all those other awful free to play games, which tend to be unconscionably psychologically manipulative to an excessive degree, and suck people into terrible time sinks, which ultimately must simply be uninstalled, because they have such a destructive effect on people's lives. Some people may not understand this, because everyone is different, and some people are not so easily sucked into the relentless pursuit of a micro-dose of endorphins, while others can't understand because they are simply addicts and and blinded by denial. Most of us fall somewhere between those extremes though. It is a fact that these games are engineered to be addictive. It used to be that good games were addictive because they were really fun. Now, behavioral science and sophisticated psychological manipulation are being leveraged to make games which are deliberately designed to be addictive, while they only need to be just fun enough to suck people in. That modicum of fun quickly gives way to tedium and repetition, with players driven on only by addiction. Relics are basically loot boxes, and you can buy them, via player trade, with premium currency, so Warframe was already toeing the line of what is acceptable to many of us. Many of us really dislike game companies leveraging addiction to gambling to earn money from kids. DE may not directly sell loot boxes to kids, but they sell the premium currency required to buy the relics. So you see, for some of us, DE was already pushing the limits of what we can accept, and support. They hadn't really gone too far though because the same trade system that allows buying relics, also allows simply buying most of the things people would want out of those relics, which basically mitigates this gambling aspect. Nightwave may just be going too far though. Because it is another one of these psychologically manipulative affairs that make most free to play games despicable. DE should set the f2p bar higher than this with Warframe, otherwise, many of us will simply leave, for the same reasons that we don't play any of those other f2p games. I suspect that DE will look at the stats, and see that a huge number of players simply stopped playing after reaching rank 30, or their playtime went way way down, to almost none. They could respond in 2 ways. They could decide they better keep pushing these type of events, to keep people playing, or they could realize that these type of events actually destroy many people's enthusiasm for the game, and seriously reconsider their approach. If they go with the former option and keep pushing these events, those of us who stopped playing after rank 30, probably won't come back, because we just can't handle another couple months of this. Whether that is rational or not. On the other hand though, If they seriously reconsider their approach, and sift through these 100 pages very carefully, looking to really understand and open to completely overhauling the Nightwave concept and how it is delivered, rather than merely noting the minor tweak suggestions, then maybe, just maybe, they could win us back. Enthusiasm is not an easy thing to reignite though, so they are going to have to do something exceptional at this point...
  3. I know how you feel. I had taken a 5 year break from Warframe, and just recently returned. Was really enjoying the game for about a week, then nightwave happened. It has been far too demanding with my time, which I value. I did reach tier 30 in nightwave but it has been a generally unpleasant experience. Dangling a carrot to make us grind, is not so terrible, if we can do it at our own pace and in our own time. It also wouldn't be so bad if this was added as an addition to alerts rather than replacing them and serving as the primary source for everything alerts offered. An alternative source, great. Even if it was a time limited event with exclusive rewards, like the wolf sledge, syandana, and armor parts, no problem. But as the sole practical source of nitain, and everything else that alerts offered, no. I can't do this again. Since I reached nightwave tier 30, I have hardly played Warframe, and I just don't feel very enthusiastic about playing it anymore. Nightwave was exhausting and I'm probably going to have to take another very extended break now that this is over. I certainly can't handle something like this again. I'll try to stick around a bit longer and see if DE learns from this, but if what comes after nightwave is anything like this, I'm done too. There is no logical argument against this. It is a fact that many of us found this exhausting, with the end result being a profound loss of interest in playing Warframe altogether. People will try to argue that our logic is flawed, and there is no reason to feel exhausted by this because it is easy, and we only needed to do a fraction of it, and we should have been able to do it in a couple hours each week. None of that changes how this actually felt to us, and no amount of logic will reignite our enthusiasm. On a side note, I really don't see why these events couldn't endlessly loop. Sure it would take a bit of restructuring, but there is no real reason that these nightwave episodes could not remain and allow players to complete them at their own pace. That doesn't mean that the next event couldn't roll-out on schedule. It could just be that players could activate any episode they had yet to complete, but they could only activate one episode at any given time (activating one would deactivate any other). Maybe reaching rank 30 would end any episode except the most recent one, so you could only gain prestige ranks in the latest episode. So players could chip away at multiple episodes, just activate one episode on monday and a different episode on tuesday. Of course players would more easily find help with tasks from the current episode, but it wouldn't matter if they couldn't finish some difficult tasks, because there would be no time constraint. In-mission spawns like the fugitives would grant standing for whichever episode players had activated, regardless of which episode the spawns were associated with. A squad with more players enrolled in a given episode would increase chances of that episode's spawns. So if all squad members were enrolled in the most recent episode then any spawns would certainly be from that episode, but if some players were enrolled in a different episode then there would be a chance for spawns from their episode, Whatever spawns occurred though, would grant all players standing for their respective episodes regardless. This would be kind of cool for bosses like the wolf too, because gradually most players would have completed the episode, and moved on to more recent episodes, making his spawns very rare. So his unique weapon would become increasingly rare, yet not quite unobtainable. If you had a newer player on your team, who was working through the old episodes, the wolf might just spawn. Eventually it would make less and less sense even for newer players to bother opting into very old episodes though, as the only real reason to would be the unique rewards, like the wolf gear, and newer episodes would be likely to offer more appealing unique gear. Eventually, episodes could be retired, but DE could give 2 months notice before retiring an episode so players who had not completed it and wanted to could have one last chance. Regardless what they do with nightwave going forward though, I really hope they bring back alerts as an alternative.
  4. I have seen lots of great suggestions that would totally please everyone except that one guy, I won't name names... 1: Creds every level in smaller amounts. This could involve removing the larger cred bundles from the tier reward pool, or not. It could work fine either way, but personally I like the idea of having the per tier trickle and a few larger bundles of creds in the tier rewards. 2: A max amount of standing per week, with a selection of tasks that is double or triple that amount in total. So no one feels they must do everything, because it wouldn't even be possible to. You choose the tasks that suit your preference. Then also, if you are locked out of some tasks, no big deal, you have other options and aren't locked out of the standing. 3: Players who fail to gain max standing in a given week will have increased max standing in the next week. So they have a 1 week window to make up for it by doing additional tasks (see point 2 above). 4: Event creds persist from one event to the next, or are converted to platinum at a suitable exchange rate. 5: Event spawns like the fugitives should be worth more standing so they don't feel like such a nuisance. This could be balanced by reducing their spawn rate. Also standing gained via such spawns should not count against max standing per week as outlined in point 2 above. 6: Event bosses should have better drop tables than the wolf does. He is such a pita to fight, and all too often, all for nothing. 7: Bring back alerts in an improved form to fill the gap for people who simply can not benefit from events requiring months long commitments. No reason that alerts can't live side by side with nightwave, more content is better than less content, and they increased the sense of a living universe and added to immersion. 8: Have tier rewards be player selected from the pool each tier (once received, rewards will be removed from the pool). I realize it sounds controversial but I think it would be great, and it would address the sense of this being a list of chores and just more senseless grind on top of a already grindy game. The main argument against point 8 is that players will just take the umbral forma, and be done with it, and it will decrease the value and rarity of umbral forma. This is nonsense though. Almost all players who where here for this event, and wanted that umbral forma got it. If some players wanted it and failed to get it, then that is no fun for them, and they are probably a statistical outlier anyway. At the end of the day, this event basically gave everyone who wanted it umbral forma. Making it the last reward did not substantially effect its rarity. There being only a single umbral forma rewarded, that is what makes it rare, and that wouldn't change. Players will continue to participate even after grabbing the best rewards that they most want, for the creds, nitain, potatoes, cosmetics, and other offerings, and they'll end up picking up the other rewards along the way too. The only real effect point 8 would have, would be to take the pressure off, which would go a long ways towards making this seem less like lists of chores and more like a really fun and rewarding event that you can get as much out of as you want to, but don't feel you have to. 9: I have seen many other great ideas presented here too, and unfortunately someone has been working very hard to obscure them beneath piles of contrarian nonsense... Some of the points above have been presented by others within these many pages, so while I can't recall who first presented them, I'm not trying to take credit for them.
  5. Pretty subjective. Some players only have a few forma and no weapons worth wasting it on. This is one of the worst challenges for low MR players. Use 3 forma, to win 3 forma... Okay let me just polarize my mk1-Braton with all my forma... I'm MR10 and I only had 6 forma when these came up, granted I got a couple BPs from relics but not piles of them, because there is other stuff I need out of relics too, and I'm certainly not going to throw away a rare reward for a forma BP when that is the choice. I skipped these and I still reached 30, but I was not certain of that for the first forma challenge, it was a gamble. The second one, I knew I could skip, because I was close to 30 already. Being locked out of numerous tasks early on, left many lower MR players unsure if they could get away with skipping anything. You can say, you don't have to do the task, you only need 60%... Yet many lower level players were far from sure that they could afford to skip these tasks because we were locked out of numerous tasks already. Typically ROI is not expressed like this, spending 6 forma and getting 6 forma back, is a 0% return on investment. If the rewards had included 12 forma, that would be a 100% ROI. As for being common in many relics, it is not actually common in all that many, it is in some, it is uncommon in others, and it is not in a good many at all. I have done probably 50 relics since this began, and I've picked up about 3 forma BPs. Granted I have gotten a lot of other stuff that I can trade for plat and then buy forma with, but that is somewhat advanced and slightly beyond what might be reasonably expected of new players. New players probably don't even have the piles of relics which I've accumulated either. As for "a well polarised Mk-1 Braton is nothing to scoff at," first, new players probably lack the mods and insight needed to really take advantage of such a thing, and anyone that really could, is well beyond needing to, but really I seems like you are just being deliberately obtuse, and not so much missing the points people make, but simply refusing to acknowledge them or attempting to obfuscate them. Again, such a subjective response. You can make light of gilding something, while for myself and many others, it is not even possible within the time frame, period. These standing gated tasks put much pressure on us lower tier players to do every single task that we were possibly capable of doing, and left us still unsure if we could reach 30, because we had no idea how much we would be locked out of over the next few weeks. It is not so much that there is a degree of subjectivity in your responses, which is of course unavoidable, and bringing it up is really just diversionary semantics - it is that you are flippantly dismissive regarding other people's concerns, based on your own purely subjective experience. You don't have a problem with gilding stuff, fine, of course I don't haver a problem with you not having a problem with that. But when you reply to others by making light of their concerns and being thoughtlessly dismissive based on such subjectivity, then your subjectivity becomes notable. As for your endless reiterations of your standing per week calculations, it is completely irrelevant, because low level players who lacked standing with various factions had no idea how much standing they would be locked out of in coming weeks. Many of them also had no idea how many weeks this would run for either. Many players also could not be sure they would be available for weeks, weeks ahead of time. And as long as you can do it, then it is fine I guess. Starting to notice a trend here. Subjectivity. See the last two responses. Some players can not do sorties, period. Locked out of tasks and wondering how far they may be able to get in this. I can do sorties, but I can totally see how some players must have felt as this started. In the very first week, many players were locked out of several tasks, so they may have thought they can't possibly reach 30, but maybe they can get a few slots or a potato. So they may not have tried too hard, and missed a couple tasks they could have done, then as weeks go by, they realize they just might be able to reach 30, if they do every single thing they can do. The fact that you claim to be a casual player is irrelevant, the fact is you had sorties unlocked, while other players did not. A casual player being able to get something done does not evidence that a player who is locked out of something should be able to as well. In fact your argument here is just shear absurdity. No, you being able to do sorties is not a good benchmark of people who are locked out of them being able to do them, because in fact they can not, period. As for your endless reiterations of how much standing was required and how much was offered, some people couldn't grasp that because they don't follow the forums, and it was never mentioned in game, and some people seem to have a hard time grasping that... Yeah, 8 bounties is not a problem, but it is not particularly fun. 5 would be okay, 3 would be better. 8 is just enough to make bounties feel really tedious and leave me feeling entirely sick of them. Here you are just resorting to semantics, yes, everything is subjective, to some degree or another. Most players will be inclined to bash these out in one session so they can get them out of the way. Sure we could spread them out, doing a couple each day or something, but that is not how human psychology works. Sure some people would do that, but most people, would do bounties, and get these done in one or two focused bounty sessions. Generally speaking, 3 bounties is no big deal, but after running 3 bounties many players are liable to be bored of doing bounties and want to do something else, but they need to get these done so they will run a couple more, after 5, these becomes an absolute chore. Not a difficult chore, but not a particularly fun one either, and it leaves many players with a more negative impression of bounties going forward. Where it used to be fun to run bounties now and then, now it is just tedious after this. Of course I don't represent everyone, but I am presenting a somewhat objective perspective here. I'm not saying 'I don't have a problem with it, so it is fine.' I have a small problem with this, and I can understand how some may have a bigger problem with it. I'm not too concerned with those who have no problem with it, because, they don't have a problem for me to be concerned about. Nice that you're willing to share your bait. While it is generally not too tough to find a higher level player to help run a mission or two, especially if the noob can keep up while they rush. Not too many of them are keen on helping random noobs go fishing, and they shouldn't need to either. Heck, fishing and mining should be entirely optional in this game, I want to play warframe not a minecraft clone or fishing sim. It took me many hours over several days to find someone to share their bait with me. Of course I did, and as I said, it took me many hours over several days to find some generous people to share their bait with me. I'm always very polite and unassuming when seeking help via recruiting and it seems that is generally well received so it never takes me long to find a helpful Teno willing to lend a hand, except with this task and with the grove specters. The commonality between the two being they require something more than simply time. I also know several other lower level players who tried to get help with this, for days, and were not able to find anyone to help them out. Maybe they weren't as polite, though I think they were, so I guess I was just lucky or my timing was better. Perfectly understandable too, considering that getting the rare fish might take a while, some older players don't even realize they can share the spawns from their bait (I had to explain this a few times in recruiting when people repeatedly told me that bait was not tradeable). Plus plenty of players are not interested in fishing and saw it as a chore even before nightwave, and as mentioned above, it involves spending resources. It costs me nothing to taxi a player to hydron, or carry a hijack mission for someone who was having a hard time with it. The resources may be minimal but there is a fundamental difference in lending a hand that costs only time, and lending a hand that costs resources. Even though the resources only take time to farm, it is still viewed differently by a majority of people but I won't go deep into the psychology behind that. That is all academic though, the point is that players were locked out of this, and other tasks, and were not informed how long this would last, and so were left unsure about whether they were wasting their time pursuing something that they may be locked out of in the end. I don't want to play minecraft. If some people enjoy these aspects of this game, good for them, awesome, but these mining and fishing activities should not be forced on us. Yes I know no one had guns to our heads but for us lower tier players, who were locked out of numerous tasks, we felt like we could not afford to skip these tasks whether we wanted to or not. Not if we wanted to 'attempt' to reach 30 because that was not a certainty for us when we were being locked out of tasks. I think I just made it pretty clear that I don't want to spend time mining, so why would I have spent much time doing it when I don't want to spend time doing it? Such a strangely unperceptive reply... Your point though is once again entirely irrelevant though, because regardless of how little time I spent mining, I have certainly spent more than enough time doing it to understand the mechanics of it, and it is entirely reasonable to assume so. And yes mining in warcraft is entirely worthy of being likened to minecraft. Sure the mechanics are not identical, but it is equally tedious and repetitive. I want to play Warframe, not MineFrame. Honestly, it feels absolutely absurd to me to use psychic trasference to take control of a cutting edge warframe, so I can go mine stuff or go fishing. I don't begrudge DE for putting it in the game, as I'm sure some people like it, and it adds a greater range of activities which could appeal to a wider range of people. I just wish they had made these tasks entirely optional. They could have made other activities as optional alteratives to get the same resources, like defend the fishermen, or raid the mine. Thumpers are a step in the right direction, for PoE at least. Again, you don't seem to have a problem with mining but that does not invalidate the complaints of those who do have a problem with it. I don't think anyone is arguing to outright remove mining from the game, and no one is trying to spoil your enjoyment of the game. Yet you seem pretty keen on insisting that things which spoil others' enjoyment of the game are fine as is. Nightmare missions are fine. It really is not the same level of subjective. I said they are fine because the issues with them are minimal and weren't worth bringing up in specific here. I was not being casually dismissive. You didn't really raise any issues with them and I think it's very few people who have any serious issue with them specifically here. Some people take issue with the chore-ification of nightwave in general, a few have mentioned that 10 was just a bit much and not quite in-line with the standing granted, suggesting that 10 should have been an elite, but even those people, where I have noticed, have made it clear that this was a minor gripe. My saying they are fine is not entirely subjective either because, as with most of my arguments I am basing them on the general impressions I have gathered from reading countless posts of the many people who have problems with nightwave. Just like with sorties, where I had no problem at all, but I can understand how some people were locked out of them, in the first week, coloring their impression of nightwave going forward. I have problems with the entire system of nightwave, which while not all bad, presents lots of issues for lots of players. Nightmare missions being a part of nightwave, is problematic in general due to the way nightwave is implemented in general, but that was not the point of my replies to you here, which were more focused on the specific areas you were pointing at. Seems you were trying to make a point-list so as to dismiss all the issues people raised through over-simplification and by making light of their concerns. Except your flippant dismissals are based on over-simplification, false equivalencies, callous disregard, pure subjectivity, and an obtuse refusal to acknowledge the actual points people make. No problem with these. Again, I don't mean to make light of the issues people do have with these activities, I have seen these mentioned as problematic in specific very little if at all. Being a part of nightwave and suffering from the issues surrounding the implementation of nightwave in general is beyond the scope of my more focused replies here. These tasks in and of themselves, are easy, take little time, are worth an appropriate amount of standing, and can be combined with other activities and in many cases accomplished incidentally. So general problems with nightwave notwithstanding, there is little to complain about regarding these activities in specific. Arbitrary nonsense and completely unnecessary. No, it simply does not apply to every challenge to such a degree, not by a very wide margin. In fact every single other activity, as far a I can recall, directly grants some kind of tangible in-game reward independently of the nightwave event. People run sorties for the rewards even when there is no challenge to do so, people open relics to get the relic drops, and for traces. People do elite sanctuary onslaught for the relics and other rewards. People socket ayatans to get endo. Nightmare missions drop nightmare mods, etc. etc.. The 'do it with a friend or clan mate' condition is entirely arbitrary and serves no purpose outside of meeting the arbitrary nightwave requirement. People who like running with friends/clanmates do so, people who don't, shouldn't have to. Grove specters, orb mothers, profit takers, and everything else locked behind standing walls. This wouldn't be such an issue, if there was better communication regarding number of weeks and amount of possible standing remaining, etc. Yes I know some of us knew approximately how long the event would run, and some knew approximately what percent of tasks needed to be done each week to reach 30, but many players don't follow forum announcements and watch devstreams, these things need to be communicated in the event interface itself. Again, nice of you to help some others out with this, but DE shouldn't count on you doing so. This one took me quite a while to get someone to help with too, and I know several players who could not find anyone to help them with this and had yet to unlock the quest. The other big problem is weeks long consistent commitment. Some of us must travel on business regularly, I was just extremely lucky that I didn't have any longer trips in this period but most months I do, which basically just cuts me right out of the replacement for alerts going forward. If I miss 5 weeks, I miss most of what I might have gotten from alerts. With alerts if I miss 5 weeks, it is no problem, I missed some alerts, but they will roll back around. Nightwave may roll back around too, but If I can't be available for a couple months, I'll just miss out again, whereas with alerts, when they roll back around, I only need to be available for 20 minutes. Your logic here is actually quite absurd. A fundamental aspect of this game is building warframes and gear which require resources which are virtually unobtainable outside of nightwave now. Nitain used to be obtainable via alerts, which traveling frequently for weeks and months at a time on business did not completely cut me out of. I don't think DE's intent here is to make it so people who are frequently not available to play for extended periods are no longer welcome to play warframe. However making nitain unavailable to them, cuts them off from a huge portion of the core of what warframe is. Umbral forma too, while it is fine for it to be very rare, I don't think DE's intent was to make it exclusively available to a select demographic of players. If this was just about some cosmetics, and a couple slots or potatoes, then it wouldn't matter so much, because I can get those things with plat, and I don't need the cosmetics to enjoy the game. But having numerous warframes and core gear/weapons depend on nightwave participation pretty much invalidates your argument. I have missed many events due to being away on business, and I have never complained about missing those events. Yet alerts were the mechanism whereby we could get access to rare but essential resources, and they did not require a months long commitment. I'm not irrationally afraid of missing out, I am simply pointing out a major flaw in the design here. If nightwave is meant to replace alerts, as currently implemented, it is going to inadvertently cut many people off from essential in-game resources which play a fundamental role in the core gameplay. Your reply literally boils down to "well I can't really grasp the point you are making or at least I'm going to pretend not to, while I divert your argument into a false equivalency which results in the conclusion that if you must travel frequently on extended business trips, then you simply should not play warframe at all then, and you should be happy about that." Which is simply ridiculous. You also ignored the part where I already addressed the fact that nightwave would roll back around, as if I hadn't, because that's just how you roll. Oh the irony... Just wow! Anyone who skims through these 90+ pages is sure to realize that by far the most vocal minority here is clearly you...
  6. The colors of some things are informative though and effect situational awareness of other players. At the very least there should be a setting to disable energy colors effecting elemental effects.
  7. So for non-forma'd frames, we get washed out energy colors, period. This is really lame. If secondary energy impacts appearance of non-forma'd stuff (which it does) then it should not require forma to adjust. The way secondary energy is implemented is really sloppy it seems. We should be able to turn down the effect, to zero. And that should be the default, so that non-forma'd stuff is not impacted. The feature should not have been implemented until it was properly tuned to be able to do the same type of understated and fully saturated appearance of legacy single energy colors. Now we have blown out energy colors, and inconsistencies pretty much across the board, with the same colors appearing completely different from one item to another. Also, energy colors should not impact elemental effects. Until all the many problems with secondary energy are worked out, if they ever are, maybe add a 'legacy energy effects' toggle in settings. It really sucks to have bought color pallets to be able to use saturated deep reds, and now be limited to only washed out pinks, and have it require forma to be able to access the proper colors that I paid for. I will ultimately forma most everything I intent to hold onto, but it is not cool being pressured to do so, before I'm ready to, just to adjust a color, especially after buying color palettes for that very purpose already. Seriously, what is the reasoning for the forma requirement? It seems like a poorly conceived and arbitrary limitation. What, are you afraid people won't forma stuff without this additional incentive? It seems like we will generally forma everything we plan on using for very long, as soon as we have mods that will allow good builds requiring polarization. The only reason people wouldn't forma stuff they plan to keep and use often is lacking the mods that merit polarization for good builds. My guess would be, the reasoning was that secondary energy would just be a nice little added perk, of little consequence, for polarization. This reasoning would be fine if secondary energy did not impact the appearance of non-forma's stuff, but it does... Which transforms this reasoning into, taking something away from us, and then demanding forma to give it back. Because I used to be able to make energy deep red, or purple, but now, I can't, unless I spend forma, I am limited to pinks. My non-forma'd frames all have grey energy now, because that is better than any of the other pastel options I am limited to. It is kind of deceptive too, the way this was presented, claiming that secondary energy would be enabled by polarizing, when in fact it is enabled no-matter what, and forma is simply required to adjust it. This feels shady, and slightly extortionate. I doubt this was intended to be extortionate, just as I doubt this was intended to force people to spend more forma, but rather just a nice little added perk, or to tie the new feature into the game in a neat way, but because this blows out our colors and is not adjustable without the forma, it ends up feeling extortionate, and this is totally unnecessary. It really is not cool layering costs of colors like this. I paid for saturated colors, they worked okay. Until you desaturated them and now ask me to pay for them again...
  8. Agreed. Furthermore, swap weapons is still kind of a mess. If I'm using a scanner, sometimes it swaps back to the weapon I was not using, sometimes it swaps back to the weapon I was using, I think this may depend on whether I had used melee, so technically melee was equiped, not the scanner. See how this is a mess, with inconsistent behavior... If using a scanner, swap weapon should swap back to your gun, the one you were using last, that makes sense. If using melee, then swap weapon should swap back to your gun, the one you were using last. This makes sense and is consistent. The fact that you can swap to your gun from melee, instantly, but it takes time to 'swap weapons' is part of the problem here. If you press swap weapon when melee is equiped, it should instantly switch to your gun (the gun you were using last), just like if you pressed fire. Then aim, need not swap weapons (three methods of swapping is overkill), and from melee, tapping swap twice would first insta switch back to gun, then do the switch primary/secondary which takes a moment of time. Then you could give back manual block button to people that want that, and allow people who like aim gliding with melee to do that too, and we could change weapons between primary/secondary/melee/gear in a way that was entirely consistent, predictable, and responsive.
  9. Yeah, pretty sad to see the folks in here trying to argue that the people who don't like nightwave, or don't like some things about it are wrong, and that others should like it because they like it. People who dislike this stuff, they are not lying, they are not wrong, and their opinions are entirely valid. How they claim to feel, in all likelihood really is how they actually feel, whether it makes sense to you or not. Instead of trying to point out how they are wrong, or how their opinion is wrong, or saying to stop playing warframe if they don't like it, or other such childish and pedantic responses, trying to find solutions which can please them while yet retaining the things you like about NW would be so much more productive. My suggestion is to bring back alerts, and to keep nightwave too. To improve alerts, and to improve nightwave as well. Nightwave: wolf creds should be nora creds and they should persist from one episode to the next. wolf/nora creds should be earned in small amounts from every challenge. so people who just need something from offerings aren't forced to play through large portions of the episode. Tier rewards should be players choice, pick one from the whole list, each tier. I know some will say, no way, you can't just take umbral forma at tier 2 and then drop nightwave. But why not? If nightwave is fun and the rewards are all good people will want to do as much as they can, but they won't feel cheated if they can't do it all. People will keep doing the challenges to get the wolf/nora creds as well, for nitain and what have you. This way they can get what they really want, no matter how much time they do or don't have, and then they can earn creds and pick up additional rewards at their own pace without feeling like they'll be punished for not having as much free time as others. At the start of the episode, give players a couple of nightwave vouchers which can be used to skip a task. Just two is probably fine. Even for some players who can and will reach 30 without them, it would still go a long ways in relieving the pressure, or the feeling of being cheated by being locked out of tasks due to standing and such. It's not enough to bypass every task that requires standing, but it is enough that they won't feel clobbered by these tasks in the first week or two, to the point they aren't sure if they can even do nightwave to any meaningful degree. The point is that this should not be forced, and it should not leave players investing large amounts of time to get some far off reward and then not getting it. Feeling forced to do nightwave for weeks on end to get one thing they want, is much worse than alerts were for some people, and its the sort of thing that leaves some people feeling a bit exhausted by the time they get it. I bet a lot of people will take a break from wf once this episode is over, even if they get all the rewards. On the other hand, those who tried to get the umbral forma and wolf armor and yet in the end fail, will feel discouraged, even punished by the game, and many of them are liable to take a break from wf too. And that exhaustion and disappointment causing people to feel they need to take a break from wf, is the opposite of what was intended by nw, which was meant at least in part to increase player retention. I know that one dude is probably going to quote me and say 'it isn't forced and if you don't like nightwave, you don't have to do it, and you can go play destiny instead.' Honestly though this sort of response, which I've seen repeated numerous times in this lengthy thread, is simply obtuse, and kind of childish. We all like warframe, that is why we are here, we want to play warframe, and if we want to play warframe, then nightwave is all but required, because we need nitain to build warframes and gear, and those warframes and that gear are central to what warframe is. This sort of response though, it simply demonstrates someone being either willfully obtuse or a fundamental lack of insight into human psychology. No, no one has a gun to our heads, but that isn't the point either. One more thing, add a toggle to disable repeating Nora voice broadcasts. When disabled, each of her voice recordings will play once, and only once. Maybe toggling it on and off again could reset this so that they each play again, once. Yeah cool, they tell a story, she is kind of the narrator of the episode, DE took the time to produce the content, and it's okay to play it as intended, but not over and over an over again... Alerts: Bring them back in an improved state. It seldom makes sense to remove content, and they could continue to serve as a nice alternative to nightwave for people who simply can't focus on the game daily for weeks on end. Make alerts more elaborate involving multiple hops around the solar system, with branches at key points. Have increasingly valuable rewards for each hop, and have branches which lead to different rewards. Have alert bosses randomly generated from lists of attributes/strengths/weaknesses/abilities/companions/weapons/etc., and have them use a cool modular character model system so that their appearnace is randomized as well. Alerts should drop into players' alert ques where they will remain until they are either completed or superseded by new alerts, with the alert que retaining two alerts and removing the oldest one to make room for new ones. Once you launch an alert from the alert que and complete it, it should be removed from the que, but it will only be removed from the que of the individual player that launched it. So you can complete the same alert more than once by joining the games of players who have not launched it yet. However... Completing the same alert more than once will give dwindling rewards, with successive completions granting rewards of progressively decreasing value. Have bonus rewards for meeting various special conditions when completing alerts. Such as completing all stages of an alert with the same squad, different bonus rewards for completing individual legs of an alert solo, additional bonus rewards per player for completing individual legs of an alert with melee only, etc., etc.. The idea is to make the alerts more interesting and engaging, while also addressing the issue many had with missing alerts for rare items they needed, by making them more accessible via the alert que. It is even possible with this system to ask a friend to hold off completing an alert for an item one needs, say if one is out of town for an extended period. The friend can still complete other alerts since the que can hold 2, and as long as they do every new alert that comes up, then that 1 they didn't do won't get pushed out of the que so they could save it for for their buddy when he got back. Alerts and Nightwave: Finally these two systems could work together and complement each other, in all sorts of fun and interesting ways. Could be nightwave challenges to complete certain alerts, and there could be some special alerts based on the current nightwave episode. Like an alert which takes the players in pursuit of a large gang of saturn six fugitives which could grant some nice bonus nightwave standing for capturing a bunch of fugitives in the end (just one example off the top of my head). Also some alerts could include some of the wolf/nora creds as part of their rewards. All these suggestions boil down to letting players play the way they like to play, let them explore the content they want to explore at the pace they are comfortable with, and reward them as they go at their own pace. Give them the tools to enjoy the game to its fullest, without making them feel forced, pressured, punished, discouraged, or exhausted. It is one thing for a quest to be challenging, or a mission to be hard, but it is something else for the way content is pushed to be demanding even when not on a mission. Nightwave could be great for retaining players and keeping them interested with episodic content that they can chip away comfortably without being a drag, or a chore, but rather just an opportunity. Alerts too could be just that much more content, adding life and interest to the warframe universe and offering an alternative means of acquiring some rare items and resources for those who simply can not devote the time needed to get them through the more stable source of nightwave. So everyone can play the game they love, the way they love to play it! For the record I am a couple tiers away from 30 for nightwave. I'll finish it no problem. I have really not enjoyed it though, it has been kind of a drag, but not so much of a drag as to make it worth throwing away the rewards on offer. I'm not that new of a player, but I was away for years, and factions and standing are new to me so I had none when nightwave began. For higher level players, there probably is not so much pressure and that pressure is part of what makes these tasks feel like chores and time sinks. For instance, if you have the required standing and no problem doing orb mother, and profit taker and gilding modular items, and have sorties unlocked, etc.. then you don't have to worry too much about missing a task or two, just because you don't feel like doing it. or because you don't have time, or whatever. However for players without high standing in cetus and fortuna we learned early on that there may be numerous tasks in any given week which we can not accomplish, period. This left us feeling like we had better do all of the tasks we possibly can do, and even then, still being uncertain whether we would be able to reach 30, or even get close. Even more so for casual players who don't follow the forums, which are many, because they had no idea how long this would last. So for higher level players who probably have plenty of forma, and forma BPs, they could choose not to use 3 forma for that task because they didn't want to, and not have to worry that maybe next week they would be locked out of half the tasks. While a lower level player who might only have 5 forma, and no BPs would feel much greater pressure to use those forma, essentially negating one of the rewards they are working towards, and possibly wasting a forma on an mk1 weapon or something silly like that. I'm trying to look at things from a broader perspective than my own here. I don't want to ruin nightwave for anyone who loves it or thinks it is perfect, but I do think it could be tweaked to be better for everyone who doesn't like it, without ruining it for those who do.
  10. Agreed, and it should be zero percent by default. That would address a lot of the issues that are coming up, and it would make it so unforma'd stuff will not be effected by secondary energy colors that can't be customized, as well as not change how stuff looks until people go in and customize.
  11. Please either revert the secondary energy stuff, or at the very least make a toggle switch next to the secondary energy color which can enable or disable it. For un-forma'd stuff make it disabled. Why is this change making my un-forma'd stuff look different? This added feature for forma'd stuff should be implemented in a way so that it does not mess with the appearance of unforma'd stuff. Or if this is going to impact the appearance of everything, forma's or not, then don't have a forma requirement to tweak it, because that is just plain mean. Honestly, this secondary energy stuff does not seem ready for release, and I think the best option is to either remove it for now, or at least put a toggle in the options to use legacy energy colors. Or more appropriately have it defaulted to off, and call it experimental energy effects. Then we can optionally enable and help test it, until it is ready for prime time. Really not pleased to find my prime warframes have two different energy colors, one of which I can not change, unless I forma, which I don't need to do yet because I don't have the mods needed for builds requiring forma yet. I will forma when I have the mods for better builds, but I will do so with the insight gained from having those mods and knowing how I should forma for my desired builds. I'm not just going to go forma-ing my frames all willy-nilly just so I can access secondary energy in order to try to fix them because they are broken as currently implemented. To do secondary energy right, it must be slightly more sophisticated. It needs opacity sliders, and it needs to not mess with things that don't have access to it. It also needs to default to setting which mimic precisely the appearance things had before it was added, as in defaulting to disabled, or opacity zero, or otherwise identical to not having it at all. Because people have put time and energy into getting their stuff to appear exactly as they like, so it is really kind of harsh to just go and kick over their sand castles like that.
  12. Well, I got into this game for a few months about 5 years ago, spent a little cash to unlock a few extra slots and have a bit of plat handy. Had to quit due to real life, as my work had me traveling to many remote regions constantly, and my laptop was not capable of running games. Just recently came back, was having great fun for a couple weeks, then nightwave hit. It is exhausting. I know someone will pop in here to tell me it is optional, and that if I don't like the nw tasks no one is forcing me to do them. That's right, no one is forcing me to play warframe either. Last time I quit due to real life, this time, I am liable to quit soon from exhaustion due to nightwave. Nightwave makes what was lots of fun into an exhausting list of chores. Wolf is a p.i.t.a. too. Before I ran into him a few times and fighting him was a time consuming chore, like most of nightwave. Now though, with his three invulnerable henchmen it is more like a punishment. This is not an exciting or rewarding encounter, it is just not fun. Since he got his henchmen, every single time I have ran into him (quite a few times), everyone in the squad aborted leaving me fighting him solo. They aborted because it is not fun, and I hardly blame them. Even the fugitives are a p.i.t.a.. Of course most of us need the nightwave standing so we are going to go after them, but for 150 standing, it is hardly worth the effort. During the event in orb vallis when they were worth 300 it didn't feel quite so tedious. They should be worth 300 always, and for such a time limited and region specific event, 600. But really, little fixes like this are nowhere near enough to fix the exhausting pile of chores that nightwave is. Edit: As for constructive feedback, bring back alerts, and keep nightwave. Improve alerts and improve nightwave. Nightwave improvements: Wolf creds should not be in the progression rewards, but should be earned along with nitghtwave standing from each task. This way, people who need nitain for instance can invest a reasonable amount of time into completing a few nw tasks and earn the creds they need, as opposed to weeks of grinding. Wolf creds should be Nora creds and should carry over from one act to another. The rewards should be chosen by the players, each tier they can choose one. Then players wouldn't feel they were being forced to do tons of chores to get the one or two things they want. This boils down to simply not forcing players to play something they don't want to play, some players would grind through 5 tiers to get the things they want, others through 15, and if you make the rewards really good, then many players, who have the time, will play through 20 or 30 tiers, but then players wouldn't feel forced into an exhausting weekly list of chores. Alerts improvements: Make alerts be randomly generated quests that involve 2 or 3 hops around the star chart with different rewards for each leg of the quest. The quests can have random challenge elements that could grant additional rewards. These quests could include bosses that were randomly generated with a modular character model system, and lists of possible abilities, strengths and weaknesses, possible companions, etc.. The potential here is limitless. The alerts should drop into players alert ques where the past two alerts will remain available until they are either completed, or replaced with new alerts. Once a player completes any given alert it will no longer be available to that player, however players could share their alert ques. So if you already completed an alert, and got the rewards, then you could not access that alert directly again, however, if I had not yet done the alert, then I could invite you into my squad and start it from my alert que, and you could do it again and get the rewards again, but make the rewards different for each successive run, dwindling towards less valuable/rare.
  13. Still have an issue with glaives becoming unthrowable when dual weilding. Wind up, charge, bam, no throw. That is pretty harsh when you just jumped in front of the toughest enemy, and suddenly just fail to attack. So you leap away, and out of habit try to throw mid air. nope. The throw is broken, until you fire your secondary, and this seems to often occur when your secondary is out of ammo, so you need to reload, then fire your secondary before you can throw again.
  14. You are the who doesn't know how coding works. They don't need different coding at all. They would use the exact same coding. The difference being simply entries in a database that the code parses. Those database entries do not even need be managed by a coder. It is data input, and if the code is built sensibly, then that data input should be child's play. Despite some bugs warframe is quite well optimized, and I'm sure there is lots of very well-designed reusable modularity in the codebase, so there is no reason at all to think that the nightwave code wouldn't be sensibly designed. Some minor issues would need to be worked out regarding overlapping content, but nothing terribly difficult to make work. As for fugitives, and other in-mission bonus content, it's really nothing too hard to work out. A) current season stuff as in-mission content, period. So when the next season comes out, if it's not fugitives, then fine, whatever the new thing is, it will probably give nightwave standing, so as far as that goes, stragglers who are still on season one, just won't get fugitives anymore for extra standing, instead they'll get the new thing, for the extra standing, no big deal. It seems like you are just trying really hard to make huge piles of problems where there simply aren't any at all... Just because you can do something in an hour or two, doesn't mean anything. It is not even an argument, nor is it a constructive way to engage in discussion. Your attitude that if it works okay for you then it must be perfectly fine for everyone, is quite egocentric, and I rather doubt that DE shares your perspective on the matter. They want to retain players in general, not just you in specific. That was kind of the whole point of Nightwave. Retention, not pushing people away with this attitude that, if players can't invest the time, then they "don't deserve" the micro-dose of endorphins that the rewards generate. If nightwave exhausts players and doesn't deliver that endorphin, then players will fade, and lose interest. New players, and many older but very casual players, who don't feel comfortable crushing these tasks in a couple hours, but don't have time to do them more slowly throughout the week, well many of them may indeed be capable of buckling down and getting them done in a couple hours, at the cost of their enjoyment... Because they don't feel comfortable playing at that pace. If their enjoyment of the game is the sacrifice they must make for nightwave, well that is not a good thing for the game or DE. On the other hand, if these players just give up nightwave, in order to retain their enjoyment of the game, many will feel like it isn't fair, like their missing out, especially since some items are extremely rare outside of nightwave, some are even exclusive to nightwave. This ends up being the polar opposite of the endorphin micro-dose which keeps people playing. For these players, this will naw away at their enjoyment of the game. So ultimately these players either give up enjoying the game in order to keep up with nightwave, or they give up their enjoyment of the game by missing out on nightwave... But you think its fine, because its easy for you, well good for you. Are you really enjoying nightwave though? I mean I know the rewards are not bad, but are the activities involved awesome? Are the lists of chores really exciting? Because it should be really awesome, and it should be exciting. The game should be awesome, the activities should be engaging. Nightwave is an example of one of the worst trends in gaming. Making a game that is addictive but not fun. Really good games are addictive because they are really fun. There is a trend nowadays to engineer a game to be addictive despite not actually even being fun at all. Instead of engineering the game to be fun and having it naturally be addictive as a side-effect of that. Warframe is still a fun game. It was engineered primarily to be a fun game, unlike many f2p titles these days. But nightwave and the direction it represents, seriously risks turning it into a tedious chore. Warframe has been successful and popular in large part because it was better than other free to play games. Because it had a degree of integrity in a sea of corruption. But nightwave represents one of the worst aspects of all those other f2p games, and warframe should be better than that...
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