Loza03

"By day [The Sentient that became Eidolon] hid, blinded and pained." "Gara yearned to strike [The sentient that became Eidolon] while it cowered, weakened and blind" The Sentient that became Eidolon hated sunlight, hurt and blinded by it, and Gara stalked the lands seeking out its lair so that she may strike during the day. "So [the Unum] gave her followers some of her blood, her refined temple kuva", emphasis mine "But in the Temple Kuva, it tasted healing". The Sentient drank 'blood', and was empowered and strengthened by it, and sought to drain the Unum of all her 'blood'. Now I'll gladly grant that these both happened before the Eidolon became undead, but the themes of 'Monster that wants to drink blood and hates sunlight' is pretty bloody vampiric if you'll pardon the pun. Eidolons show characteristics of several other undead types (namely their skeletal forms and zombie-like behaviour), but there's clearly Vampire in there. They don't show all of Revenant's specific powers except intangibility since that's the main thing of Vomvalysts, and Eidolons sink into solid surfaces a lot, (and on the spinning, that was put there to be more like the Eidolons than Rev's original more Vampiric 4), but Revenant's powers are displayed by other mythological or literary vampires, largely Bram Stoker type Vamps. Reb took what already had Vampire DNA in its design and emphasised that for Revenant.

I've addressed this and other people have addressed this. Eidolons, even if we soley take the lore that existed prior to Revenant, aren't that different from Vampires. They're a sort of undead that hates sunlight and craved blood. Bonus points, they're also horribly malformed and miscoloured undead that indiscriminately attack all their neighbours out of misguided vengeance, which frequently crops up in older vampire mythology too.

But in what respect is the Stalker the Operator's shadow? The Shadow represents the aspects of a personality that a person doesn't openly display and they aren't conscious. Whilst self-loathing can be a part of that, Stalker's actions don't really line up. I can concieve of us being guilty for killing some of the humans, but like? Random blobs of flesh and robots??? And he helps us when we help Hunhow, which is a conscious action. Wally feels like a better fit. The Tenno don't show any particularly sadistic tendencies on the outside, but since they're controlled by us, who actively enjoy all the suffering and carnage we engage in, Wally's sadistic pleasure in whatever it is he does could quite easily be a manifestation of some nasty pleasures behind the scenes.

If you don't ask questions when designing, your design will be boring, DE noticed an opportunity to reimagine something and did, that's a good thing, and they were honest about it. There, 31 words and the response could fit in a Tweet. And like most Tweets it leaves out a ton of information, nuance and examples, but since when were any of those things important for intellectual discussion or an interesting, curious mind open to new information and experiences anyway?

As I and other have pointed out, said specific faction isn't entirely disconnected from the Vampire theme in the first place, certainly within enough of the same fields to start with to be ripe ground for reinterpretation, even if the 'attach one visual theme to a different mechanical one' wasn't a well-established trend by the time Revenant released. Pretty sure it started with a question of if people wanted a werewolf frame. And even if that's not the case if we were stuck with the original questions, we'd never have gotten Warframes in the first place Because the former philosophy informs all design, and I didn't say jack about the latter, I said that plenty of themes in Warframe are vague, tangiential and frequently redefined in the creative process, citing multiple examples. To address the former in more detail, if you don't ask the question of 'What is X' as well as the related 'Why is X' when you're designing something, you're only going to produce extremely surface level tropes and stereotypes, and if they've been around long enough, chances are those tropes and stereotypes aren't doing what they're supposed to do anymore due to cultural drift. For example, why do vampires not appear in mirrors? Because mirrors are made of a holy metal... except silver isn't as ubiquitously considered holy in the modern day (doubly with how increasingly-secular the world is), and Mirrors aren't made of silver anymore. Except, well, that's the trope, so vampires can't be seen in mirrors in media to this day even though it makes absolutely no thematic sense. In reverse, the Castlevania anime takes some time to discuss the 'Crosses and Vampires' when Sypha points out that a 'Sign of the Cross' weapon developed in India makes no sense because Hindu Vampires, and Trevor comments that it's actually due to differences in vampire vision and the cross being a geometric shape that startles their predator brains. One of these things is an example of writing from people who asked questions about themes and tropes (in this case to justify one, but abandoning irrelevant themes is also common), and the other is from people who don't. Even Stephanie Myer realised that she had to cull certain Vampire tropes to better address other themes and goals, much to the rest of the world's despair. Stephanie Myer. please dont tell me you actually think bram stoker invented vampires this must be hyperbole And, no, but boring design is, and saying that if something has one theme, it can only have that one theme and only in one way is a very good way for design to get boring. In Revenant's case, I distinctly remember it, and they hyped up both the vampire and the eidolon parts pretty equally, and Voruna is just straight up the theme they hyped up, it's just that theme encompasses more than a Hollywood B-movie from 90-ish years ago.

Because most of the thematic connections in Warframe range from fairly tangential to outright vague in the first place. Wisp uses obviously sci-fi stuff to achieve her ghost them (for example, her 3 lets her 'phase through walls' if you can see through them, by portal travel), and nothing about Loki's physical design and abilities is tangential at best (he never self-duplicates, and I can't find any references to him turning invisible, but I've not got the Eddas) but it still gets across the 'trickster' vibes. There's a few that are dead-on, of course - Wukong springs to mind, and Harrow to some degree although with all those chains his self-flagellation has... different and not very holy connotations, and in any case, those examples are the exception. But plenty either reference generic concepts (Tech, Ghost, Ice, Sword), or blends of concepts (Khora sports visual aesthetics from Dominatrixes, Spiders and Circus Animal tamers) or putting one visual concept on top of a different mechanical concept (A porcelain doll has no real connection to power over antimatter, yet Nova exists). Vampires and Werewolves are not only are incredibly well-trodden and generic fantasy ground ripe for reimagining, they're fantasy ground with dozens of different definitions across the years. Even taking the 'turn into bats and sucking blood', do the Vampires in Twilight turn into bats? Colin Robinson from 'What we do in the Shadows' doesn't suck blood, but nobody questions that he's a Vampire. And I've already talked at length at how many massively different takes on werewolves exist (again, some of which Voruna actually hits pretty well), and much the same is true for Vampires. And all that's just European ideas of creatures rising from dead to feast on the living or people who turn into animals. What about Japan's Jubboko trees or Kitsune? So really, what you're complaining about is that Revenant and Voruna aren't exactly like the aesthetics set by western cinema less than a century ago, despite the fact that Digital Extremes has a long track record of not doing that, and that resulting in Warframe having one of the most unique visual identities in the modern gaming space. Revenant and Voruna might not be particularly stunning and iconic Vampires and Werewolves, but the fantasy of playing a Vampire or a Werewolf exists in other games anyway. Instead, DE did something different. Revenant combines the mechanics of a vampire with the aesthetics of an existing form of Undead in the Warframe Universe, and Voruna is a humanoid wolf (a 'Were-Wolf') that draws upon common themes of wolf packs and hunting.

And historical accounts and mythologies of Werewolves involved stories of people who walked around on hands and knees and thought they were a wolf really really hard. As a matter of fact, they also involved people who went to sleep and dreamed into a wolf or wolf-like astral body, and fought demons in the name of God. Voruna is a Tenno, someone who sleeps and dreams into another, wolf-like body and fought demons in the name of those who proclaim themselves gods. It's also worth acknowledging that Dracula did require soil from his homeland to thrive and heal, and had his own personal lair that only he could traverse and allow people to enter or leave (at least without great effort from the victim). Not exactly distant concepts to fusing oneself to a landscape to heal, or having a personal pocket dimension that only you can travel to and from to. As for lasers, true, Drac doesn't shoot lasers, but it's worth remembering that was a later addition to his kit after people complained that the frame was too much vampire, not enough Eidolon.

Oh I love doing this! You can also skip the Steel Path Kaithe phase if you have a Warframe tough enough or with enough healing to tank the damage in the center. Who needs a Kaithe?

I think the fact that nobody in this thread can seem to agree on what 'Werewolf frame' actually means for a frame beyond 'Make them Transform', and sometimes not even that suggests that nobody would have actually been happy no matter what DE made. Turns out that 'Werewolf', a cultural concept going back thousands of years and having dozens of different interpretations ranging from 'A guy who acts like a wolf' to human/wolf hybrids, from baleful polymorphs transformed as a punishment from Zeus to holy warriors of God who astral project as wolves to fight demons isn't easily defined for people to easily point to 'the Werewolf frame'.

To everyone questioning about Acrobatics, that's... not how first person cameras work. Look at Overwatch gameplay, specifically all the characters that do flips and rolls or get knocked on their backs, yet the camera isn't following that. But @PhiZero Makes a good point about under-the-hood and animation changes. Even the models will need adjusting in many cases. Sadly, it's not practical.

... In fairness, the Tenno canonically fight with literal sticks in the Bo. And sharpened metal sticks since that's functionally what swords are. So 'practical' is probably not really what you're going with. For reference I am aware of the long and storied history of the effectiveness of hitting people with sticks, I am just equally aware of the much shorter, but equally storied history of the reality that gun > stick.

Please disregard - I apparently need my eyes tested.

"Upon entering Teshin’s Cave, you will be presented with randomized Warframe and Weapon options. These options are pulled directly from your Arsenal, and at least 1 of the options from each category (Warframe, Primary Weapon, Secondary Weapon, and Melee Weapon) will be something you do not own*. *Unowned Warframes and Weapons will always be the base version. This means only Excalibur, not Excalibur Prime; only the Hek, not the Vaykor Hek or Kuva Hek. Unless of course you do in fact own everything - you go getter! In a similar fashion, if you have less than 10 unowned Warframes, those Warfames have a lower chance of appearing in the Cave to prevent repeated options across each Spiral. A similar methodology is applied to Weapon selections as well. " So, yes, there is somewhat (unless you own all but 10 Warframes), but also emphasis 'from each category' - so there should also be a bias to have some stuff you DO own in there as well.

You're allowed to believe that, but DE are also allowed to. Yannow. Showcase their own stuff? Also I enjoy it, and taste is subjective.

Well for one, they will be doing that, that's already been announced. And if you give up hope because a video game company promoted a new product as well as their existing one then well, then well, I pity your hopes.

Honestly that'd make a great Steel Path version.

I know the AI manipulation trick, but I've been trying to beat it legit lately. It's not super hard though. Though the current reddit counts are 'Playing Komi' and 'Losing to the Rabbit' so...

Have you played with a Decreeless Drifter? No thank you. I wouldn't mind a modified and upgraded drifter that uses the current Duviri Drifter as a baseline, but even then I don't really get why all the Drifter Melees have two combos, so the existing system still needs work and expansion.

Two things to note - Sentients can Shapeshift and individual pieces of their body remain linked to the central mind (that's what Sentient fighters are - physical bits of whichever Sentient spawned them). So most likely the Lotus turned it into a gauntlet around the Drifter's hand consciously, or semi-consciously since at the 'time' she's not doing great. This is not a Lore Question. Yes. Serious answer, whilst it is a creation of the Drifter's imagination and subconscious, it has become an external physical space that exists even when the Drifter is absent. Similar to how the Holdfasts are technically construct clones of the originals. This is why Teshin and the Corrupted can go in, and why Acrithis's signal and hypothetically Duviri's weapons (the latter might be more related to a Tenno's ability to take the 'Idea' of something that we use with the Paracesis) can come out. This isn't known, to my knowledge, and likely it's not actually clear since the Drifter might well not have had a linear relationship with time the whole time he was in Duviri. Teshin outright points out that the Drifter had even grabbed the hand and escaped to the cave before, before eventually succumbing back to the loop. They appear to be an avatar of the Drifter's emotional turmoil, PTSD, and Self-Loathing that took control of the happy place they subconsciously created after the void accident. So technically yes, they technically are since they are an aspect of the Drifter, who is the same person as the Operator, who is an Orokin child given void powers. That part isn't entirely clear, but since they share his name and the hollow ones seem to follow his orders, they appear to be connected. On the other hand, they show up all over the place whenever the Void is involved, at least recently, so that is probably not the whole story. Probably not. The Drifter appears to have conjured this place based on a book written by Euleria Entrati (Gomaitru before she lost her memories to the Infestation), which is what the fairy tales are read from. Whilst we don't know if in the original text the various characters turn into literal dragons, the text does describe their unchecked emotion as them, which the void seems to have twisted into literal dragons. As such, since the rest of the citizens are just humdrum bit parts, they probably don't have the ability, physical or emotional, to become an Orowyrm.

Well, you aren't joking, you're just disguising an angry rant as something else. So you're baiting?

Look, if a completely unmodded (or, well, one unraked smite infested mod vs corrupted) Reaper Prime can do fine against the Steel Path with Decrees, I really don't think there's any cause for alarm with modded weapons.

Hoping everything goes well Mako!

What you said to me was 'What am I supposed to do when the game gives me unowned and/or bad weapons'. I gave you an answer. Use the intended game mechanics, grind out a couple decrees, and proceed to absolutely dominate.

Oh no. One gun (maybe two) with default mods out of 6-8 options. Truly, a tragedy. For funsies I decided to go try a Steel Path run with only loaners and, even before I lost a location marker to a bug and had to go on a... shall we call it a 'spontaneous intrinsics farm' (and consequently having rather an absurdly high decree count well past an already solid decree build. I wound up at 2000 health when I was done), things were honestly pretty comfortable. Again I get it, but people are acting like it's this thoroughly impossible thing if you get given a bad hand. Worst case scenario, go looking for a couple of non or low- combat Decree drops (hidden chests, power lines, Tamms) and then go to town.